52 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Made for good intel on how to deal with dreadnoughts in the future :>

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Wasn't a fan of this quest. Standing by while the Chargers died was quite silly. Like the Iron Bull said of me once, I can shoot fireballs out my ass. So what is stopping me from flanking the mages attack on the Chargers, or at least attempting to?

I can understand them wanting to poise a difficult choice, but the scenario was weak for it.

 

Ditto. I was also wondering if the Qunari didn't have other ship class than a dreadnaught. After a couple of centuries of fighting against Tewinter, some of which I'm sure took place at sea, didn't they have smaller faster vessels??? They knew they would be going up against a smuggler ship and smugglers wouldn't use ships that are slow but the Qun sent  a slow heavy against them. Eh?  

[sch1986]

I want to save the dreadnought but I don't know if I can. I like the chargers. I love Krem. But this just sucks. And as others said: the whole choice is stupid to begin with.

Why not just have your group and the chargers run down the hill and demolish the "vints"?? Why not have an option to save the dreadnought and at least some of the chargers with a timed mission like in Haven? The longer it takes to kill the vints the more chargers die etc.

I'm not objecting to the choice itself, I just think there are ways this mission could have been designed without making it feel like a total waste of a dreadnought or the chargers.

Also- the change in tarot cards bothers me. He cared about Krem enough to lose an eye for him yet the card shows him mourning a bunch of Qunari body parts. I feel like I must be misunderstanding the iron bull if he's more concerned about becoming Tal-vashoth then losing the chargers.

[CozzarT]

I'm playing this mission right now and very conflicted. 

 

But... What if.. You don't even do this quest.. I mean its possible to skip it, Is that also viable option? Like nobody dies, Qunari doesn't send/lose ship, Chargers don't die.

 

Iron Bull won't be excommunicated & his buddies are alive to help, I mean not doing the quest at all might affect the next sequel? That being said I'm just thinking outside about the consequence of not doing the fatal choice or not in the next Dragon Age Sequel.

 

Just a theory tho.

[Sommo James]

I'm playing this mission right now and very conflicted. 

 

But... What if.. You don't even do this quest.. I mean its possible to skip it, Is that also viable option? Like nobody dies, Qunari doesn't send/lose ship, Chargers don't die.

 

Iron Bull won't be excommunicated & his buddies are alive to help, I mean not doing the quest at all might affect the next sequel? That being said I'm just thinking outside about the consequence of not doing the fatal choice or not in the next Dragon Age Sequel.

 

Just a theory tho.

 

Most completionists on this forum would never consider such option, myself included, at least for story based mission.

[Navasha]

I never make my game decisions based on "What do I get it out of it?"  

 

Eventually, I will do a playthrough where I make every decision I would never usually make just to see the content, but this is one of those decisions where saving the Chargers and saving Bull from the Qun at the same time seems just too much like a win-win situation. 

[darlarosa]

I'm playing this mission right now and very conflicted. 

 

But... What if.. You don't even do this quest.. I mean its possible to skip it, Is that also viable option? Like nobody dies, Qunari doesn't send/lose ship, Chargers don't die.

 

Iron Bull won't be excommunicated & his buddies are alive to help, I mean not doing the quest at all might affect the next sequel? That being said I'm just thinking outside about the consequence of not doing the fatal choice or not in the next Dragon Age Sequel.

 

Just a theory tho.

I'm on my second playthrough(same character) On my first playthrough I didn't do the quest and there was no consequence. I'd say doing nothing might be the best option. After learning about the consequences here I probably won't do the quest. As Sten and others imply the alliances and negotiations aren't really a priority for them. Eventually they will invade, they will try and infiltrate the Inquisition, and though they did not support the Arishok from DA:II the general feeling I got is that they would have easily done so if he had succeeded and his feelings were shared. The Demands of the Qun are many and many do not share Bull's belief that it might hurt as many as it would help. So you can't trust the Qun. They would believe in a treaty, and alliance, anything until they found a weakness or an upper hand. Meanwhile the Chargers aren't politically advantageous, but they have a lot of standing with other mercenary groups and can do things Inquisition soldiers shouldn't or wouldn't want to.  Not to mention mercenaries are preferable to the Qunari in the eyes of many across Thedas. Potential Tevinter allies, Free Marchers(particularly people from Kirkwall), the Religously devote of the chantry, and others would view an alliance as a very bad thing to say the least.

[Hair Serious Business]

Romance is also slightly different.

With chargers he does admit having feelings and if you dare to say what will happen if you don't survive he will stop you by saying "Katoh" meaning he does want you alive...in another words more feels.

If he is still Qunari then...he makes it sound as just job even with feels you can sense that he doesn't much care about Inquisitor not surviving...I mean he does but not to the point like with chargers "If I lose you I lose myself" it is more "I will mourn you same way as I did chargers but I will move on by Qun" that kind of feel you get in romance with hardened Bull.

 

So chargers he is old Bull,Qunari he is QUNARI!

[Jecklers]

I didn't really want to involve the Qunari unless I had to. I feel like they would come "help" and entrench themselves then proceed to try and conquer Thedas again, so I didn't really care about their allegiance. Plus we had already done what I really wanted and was stop the red lyrium shipments. I said save your men, because at least I know they're loyal to the Inquisition.

 

I didn't really think about Bull when making my choice and when he got banished I felt kind of guilty, but he seemed content with the choice.

 

There's also the fact that the Ben-Hasrath show themselves to be bad allies. Leaving aside other stuff, that questline alone would make me back out.

 

They basically ask for your help with an attack,  But instead of working with the Inquisitor, they insist you follow their plan. It's disrespectful and makes it clear they don't really want an alliance, they want someone to be their support arm in southern Orlais.

 

Their intelligences turns out to be bad - they underestimated the Tevinter forces. The Inquisitor has an option to bring up this possibility before the mission, but because of their inflexibility and treating you like a subordinate your concerns are dismissed.  Then they try to tell mercenary commander hired by the Inquisition to defy the person paying him, i.e. the Inquisitor. That's not how mercenaries work either - they take orders from the person paying them.  At this point, preserving a strong fighting force is worth way, way more than good relations with distant, uncooperative allies.

 

It's mentioned that the Qun haven't allied with anyone before I think, and it definitely shows. They don't understand how alliances work and basically try to treat the Inquisitor as a subordinate instead of an equal. It follows from what we see of the Wunari culture - dictatorial, bigoted and inflexible - and makes them bad allies.  IDK if there are any mechanical advantages but from an RP perspective it makes no sense to keep the Qun alliance.

 

TL;DR The Ben-Hassrath offer an alliance...but then give you orders and try to suborn your subordinates right in front of you. This not how alliances work, and makes them bad and unpredictable allies.

[Jecklers]

i've never been able to sacrifice the chargers and i don't know if i can.  maybe i would do it once just for the sake of seeing both outcomes for myself.  maybe.  it's clear to me that iron bull loves his men though.  they've become his family and i didn't have the heart to take that away from him.  i know it still hurt him to be declared tal-vashoth though, so it was still a hard decision to make.  either way, i didn't feel right making such a huge decision when it should've been him.

 

Yeah, it felt kind of odd that the Inquisitor made that decision, but on the other hand Iron Bull is a commander under you and the Inquisitor should be the one giving battlefield orders.

 

What's also odd is that the Ben-Hassrath exile Iron Bull for your orders.  I mean, mercenaries can't defy their commanders when the commander is standing right there. That's not how mercenaries work, not if they want to keep getting work.  Iron Bull could be trying to preserve his cover as a mercenary captain, but the Ben-Hasrath blame him instead of you, who gave the order.

 

I wonder if it's a world-building move by the game designers - that questline really makes it seem like the Qunari can't interact with other cultures effectively, which makes perfect sense given what we know of Qunari culture.  They don't seem to understand how mercenaries or alliances work.

[cassandra365]

I have no recollection of any of this on my first play-through.... I think I somehow skipped this whole thing...or is this just if you romance him or something?

[cassandra365]

You need high approval with Bull for this to come up. No romance needed. This is true for all ally personal plots.

[MikeJW]

I've never gotten this quest in any of my play throughs even though I've had high approval. His is the only one Ive never gotten.

[ShadowLordXII]

My Adaar let the ship burn just as a "f$#@ you" to the Qun.

 

Plus, what exactly was stopping the Inquisitor and company from jumping down and supporting the Dreadnought themselves rather than stand there and watch it get destroyed?

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I saved the Chargers, the goal was to destroy that shipment of red lyrium and, the dreadnaught did that before it was destroyed so, success on that and, I get a happy Bull that's a bit worried he'll loose control and become a savage w/o the Qun but, he chills out and is happier that way.

 

The Chargers also have better war table missions that the Ben Hassrah so, it's a no brainer for me.

[d-boy15]

Have both outcome in my mage and warrior play through. Honestly, it offer slightly different dialogs if you not romance him. A few war table mission and banters.

Also, I doubt this will be much important in the next game since it more like a temporary alliance to stop Cory.

[Skropps]

Even more puzzling is that how the horn could not be used as a signal to regroup at the beach to attack the Vints together. That could have given a nice battle to the underwhelming crap on the cliff.

[Nefla]

Oh I hardened him alright

[Melyanna]

I picked the Charges on both playthroughs because:

1. I think a smaller group of allies that I know I can trust can be better than a bigger unknown force from the outside.
2. I don't like the idea of the Qun having one foot stuck in the door in case they decide to invade in the future.
3.  I agree with those NPCs who say that Bull was behaving like a Tal-Vashot anyway. I think that when he talks about this ideal vision of the Qun, it's the indoctrination talking, not him (in fact, he was already "fixed" once). I am "team free will", basically.
4. I may have a little crush on Krem. I want him to always be there, in the tavern, standing on his stool and shoving a bottle into his nose (you'll know what I mean if you also had this bug).

Bonus: http://full-lifecons...eauty-hes-grace

 

The most satisfying thing about picking the Charges for me was the amazing visual chess game Solas plays with Bull during banter.

[Rekkampum]

Just curious, which choice did you make? Did you unharden the Iron Bull and make him reject the Qun or did you let him stay a Qunari? I wonder about the consequence of the decision because you lose all the Charger if you let him stay harden. The dreadnought and Qunari may come in handy so just weighing the options.

 

The first time he became Tal Vashoth so that he could be true to the people who mattered most to him. Also because I had a crush on Krem.

 

Second time, I'm playing Adaar so I chose to save the dreadnought. I've done the operations with them and they still - for some unknown reason - never save Denerim. I think it's bugged.

 

Since you never clearly see how alliances work or if they truly have any effect aside from more operations I didn't put much stock into them being connected.

[BloodyTalon]

The first time he became Tal Vashoth so that he could be true to the people who mattered most to him. Also because I had a crush on Krem.

 

Second time, I'm playing Adaar so I chose to save the dreadnought. I've done the operations with them and they still - for some unknown reason - never save Denerim. I think it's bugged.

 

Since you never clearly see how alliances work or if they truly have any effect aside from more operations I didn't put much stock into them being connected.

Who did you use tp stop the fire ship?

[Lukas Trevelyan]

After two playthroughs, each making a different decision, I've come to the conclusion that I really couldn't care less about Iron Bull and will probably skip recruiting him on my canon save. 

[JamieCOTC]

I haven't played an Inquisitor yet that didn't save the Chargers. I'm two down and playing two side by side. Don't think it's going to happen any time soon.

[sillymonkboy]

Dear Iron Bull,

The first time we talked you insisted that I was Tal-Vashoth.   I tried to explain that I was born and raised in the Free Marches by two generations of farmers.   You cut me off,  dismissed what I had to say and then ranted about the Qun for the next 20 minutes.

Fine.

Krem was always pretty cool to me despite being Tevinter, and the rest of the Chargers were great to be around.  Therefore, I chose to save them.

Who's your f***ing Tal-Vashoth now?!

Yours truly,
Inquisitor Akasha Adaar
Vashoth Mage

ps  Sera says "Suck it!"

[omgodzilla]

Meh...the Qunari are gonna invade regardless of what you do. Might as well take their spy network and navy and put it to good use while we can. Atleast this way, they make our lives easier, we lose less people to the Venetori, leaving southern Thedas stronger in the event of a Qunari invasion. The alternative is pissing off the Qun, losing the worlds more powerful navy and one of the best spy networks. I mean seriously, turning away allies because you don't like them isn't always the smartest move. Imagine how many more Americans would've died in WW2, if the US didn't ally with the USSR and sent them a **** ton of equipment. A temporary alliance with the Thedas's most powerful nation is worth far more than a bunch of mercs. I mean if you were at war in real life, would you seriously choose to have 6 mercenaries by your side instead of having both the CIA and US navy? 

 

Bull is unhappy regardless of what choice you make. Either he loses his mercs or he loses his identity and becomes something he despises. Or did you forget all the times he talked about how much he despised the Tal Vashoth? Seriously, the dude is screwed either way.