52 réponses à ce sujet

[2_BR4ZIL_2]

Bull actually explains that the qunari recognize transgendered people and treat them as the gender they identify as, not the one they're born as. Krem would do just fine under the qun.

 

 

No, my point isnt even about his gender. I think both Bull and his chargers would require Re-education because they were away from the Qun for quite a long time.

 

Maybe its the Thedas propaganda clouding my judgement, but i cant envision the Qunari being as tolerant (again, not about gender, but atitude in general) as Iron Bull. To me the fact he is Ben-Hassarth already makes him distant to "normal" Qun beheavior.

[Notshauna]

The Qun is actually very clear on that they send someone to where they are best, in the ideal it's not really tyranny rather the opposite it's as if you find your calling at an early age. In reality the Qun is imperfect but it's not abnormal to transfer a craftsman to a warrior when he shows superior skill in war. The checks and balances within the Qun inhibit abuse of power and the dogmatic nature towards the Qun means that most authorities would attempt to send you to where you belong no matter if it doesn't fit with your sex assigned at birth.

[2_BR4ZIL_2]

The Qun is actually very clear on that they send someone to where they are best, in the ideal it's not really tyranny rather the opposite it's as if you find your calling at an early age. In reality the Qun is imperfect but it's not abnormal to transfer a craftsman to a warrior when he shows superior skill in war. The checks and balances within the Qun inhibit abuse of power and the dogmatic nature towards the Qun means that most authorities would attempt to send you to where you belong no matter if it doesn't fit with your birth gender.

 

 

But gender questions aside, do you think The Bull Chargers would be accepted into the Qun without somekind of Re-Education?

 

Maybe they wouldnt need those Qun re-educators, but at the very least some "forced" classes on Qun dotrine.

[Notshauna]

 

 

But gender questions aside, do you think The Bull Chargers would be accepted into the Qun without somekind of Re-Education?

 

Maybe they wouldnt need those Qun re-educators, but at the very least some "forced" classes on Qun dotrine.

 

Of course not, all Viddathari receive education on the Qun. That's the same no matter who you are.

[Shark17676]

What....he....dies?

 

He can, yes.

 

At the end of Iron Bull's personal quest, Demands of the Qun, where you're trying to forge an alliance with the Qunari, you're forced to make a decision:

 

Either Krem and the Chargers die (which also hardens Iron Bull), or your potential Inquisition-Qunari alliance quite literally goes up in smoke.  It's the most gutwrenching decision I've had to make in the game yet.

[Costin_Razvan]

Krem is not important in gaming at all. Cut that crap.

That said I like what Bioware did with the Qun and the chargers, not as easy a choice as it might have been.

[Panda]

It's cool to have transperson in the DAI series (in actual games). It's pretty weird for me that qunari is accepting to trans people, I'd imagine them from all people to think you should be happy with your birth gender but maybe they are accepting transgenders cause being born with wrong gender isn't choice? Hmm, idk.

[Nefla]

I wish he had more stories! Talk to me about your interesting jobs Krem, I am tired of spiders

[Panda]

Krem is not important in gaming at all. Cut that crap.

That said I like what Bioware did with the Qun and the chargers, not as easy a choice as it might have been.

 

He's important to lot of gamers thus important to gaming as well.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

It's cool to have transperson in the DAI series (in actual games). It's pretty weird for me that qunari is accepting to trans people, I'd imagine them from all people to think you should be happy with your birth gender but maybe they are accepting transgenders cause being born with wrong gender isn't choice? Hmm, idk.

I don't find it that odd. There are examples of real life cultures that are based on rigid gender roles while still being accepting of trans people. Iran has the highest rate of government sanctioned sexual reassignment surgeries in the world, for example. Although, they tend to be focuses on MTF rather than FTM.

 

Anyway, Krem seems cool. I wouldn't mind him being a full companion in the next game, which would make sense if it ends up being the Qunari/Tevinter conflict most of us expect it to be.

[GrayTimber]

I didn't even realise Krem was trans, I thought he just had a higher-pitched slightly fem voice.

 

Fantastic, I knew I liked Krem for a reason other than his wonderful snarky self.

[Joseph Warrick]

So, if you are not happy with your pre-chosen place in life in the sexually-divided triumvirate (with the exception of the Soul-path), you can approach to your Tamassran and say that you are in fact another gender, is that right? Because this looks more like the writer is the one talking, insterting modern morality, and not the Qunari. 

 

The "preferred pronouns" business is so North American. It's clear this fantasy is not being used to lay out questions (since fantasy can go beyond reality), but to teach us the writer's answers - portrayed as objective and obvious.

 

Anyway, of all races, the qunari is the most fitting one for this. In all other races it's okay to be a woman and fight. Only the qunari think if your vocation is war then you must be a man. And with all the nasty brainwashing the qunari go through to maintain their nice little perfect society, it's not strange to find non-conforming people shoved into the qun's pre-defined boxes.

[Pierce Miller]

Costin_Razvan, on 23 Nov 2014 - 3:21 PM, said:

Krem is not important in gaming at all. Cut that crap.

That said I like what Bioware did with the Qun and the chargers, not as easy a choice as it might have been.

This. Videogames are about videogames, Not as some on this forum believe about modern morality.

[daveliam]

This. Videogames are about videogames, Not as some on this forum believe about modern morality.

 

And books are about books.  And movies are about movies. 

 

The gall of some people expecting an entertainment medium to touch on social themes.  The nerve of them!
 

[deliriumcrow]

The most important thing that's always discussed is the lack of choice. Well this system which gives a woman the choice to be considered a man seems completely antithetical.

I think this was sort of covered in a conversation with Sten in DA: O. He was willing to accept that the Warden was either a female or a fighter, and the decision on which one was true didn't seem to be based on her body so much as her words and deeds. The confusion seemed to come from not picking one or the other. Perhaps the fact that Sten is the new Arishok might have something to do with the leniency?

That said I had no idea that Krem was not a very young man. This answers why Iron Bull is running around with a merc who sounds like a 15 year old boy, so it makes much more sense.

[2_BR4ZIL_2]

I think this was sort of covered in a conversation with Sten in DA: O. He was willing to accept that the Warden was either a female or a fighter, and the decision on which one was true didn't seem to be based on her body so much as her words and deeds. The confusion seemed to come from not picking one or the other. Perhaps the fact that Sten is the new Arishok might have something to do with the leniency?

That said I had no idea that Krem was not a very young man. This answers why Iron Bull is running around with a merc who sounds like a 15 year old boy, so it makes much more sense.

 

 

Again, Tallis from DA2 is female and a warrior, she is with the Ben Hassarath, same situation with the Chargers.

 

It may be that only Qunari (you know, the horned people) get the sex restriction.

 

Even so, it might just be the fact that there are no such rules for Ben Hassarath.

[CENIC]

Why is there no flirt option with Krem!?

[Pierce Miller]

daveliam, on 23 Nov 2014 - 6:19 PM, said:

And books are about books.  And movies are about movies. 

 

The gall of some people expecting an entertainment medium to touch on social themes.  The nerve of them!
 

People going on and on about how perfect this character is just because they are transgender is kind of annoying.

[daveliam]

People going on and on about how perfect this character is just because they are transgender is kind of annoying.

 

There are two pages in a single thread and half of the comments are people asking why it's important.  How, exactly, is it "going on and on"?

[Pierce Miller]

daveliam, on 23 Nov 2014 - 7:20 PM, said:daveliam, on 23 Nov 2014 - 7:20 PM, said:

There are two pages in a single thread and half of the comments are people asking why it's important.  How, exactly, is it "going on and on"?

This isn't the first thread I've seen where people talked about this. A character shouldn't be interesting because of their gender identity, that's just silly.

[Qutayba]

Interesting.  I guess I haven't come up to those dialogues yet.  The treatment makes an interesting contrast to the Dorian personal story line, in which his people don't like his gender non-conformism and the player has the option to say it's not a big deal.  Here, Krem is accepted by his mercenary band without question, while the player dialogue options give the option to probe (perhaps a little indelicately).  Nice that they put it in, though.  BioWare has been ahead of curve on this, kudos to them, but I do look forward to the day when things like this don't feel like a public service announcement 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

This isn't the first thread I've seen where people talked about this. A character shouldn't be interesting because of their gender identity, that's just silly.

How is that silly? If someone finds Krem interesting due to his gender identity that's their business. Especially if said person is transgender themselves. It's nice to see someone like you in media -someone who isn't comic relief- for once when usually you're treated as non-existent. Or a joke.

[Pierce Miller]

Malgrohiik, on 23 Nov 2014 - 7:56 PM, said:

How is that silly? If someone finds Krem interesting due to his gender identity that's their business. Especially if said person is transgender themselves. It's nice to see someone like you in media -someone who isn't comic relief- for once when usually you're treated as non-existent. Or a joke.

So Cullen is interesting because he is male? Leliana because she's female? That makes no sense at all.

[daveliam]

So Cullen is interesting because he is male? Leliana because she's female? That makes no sense at all.

 

I cannot think of another transman in any video games.  So, if there were literally no other males in thirty plus years of video games, then yes, Cullen might be interesting if he were the first male. 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

So Cullen is interesting because he is male? Leliana because she's female? That makes no sense at all.

*sigh* 

If someone wants to think that they are? I don't care. But they are not what I'm talking about, and you'd know that if you read my post. People like Leli and Cullen - people who aren't transgender - have been in games before. Try nearly every single character in existence. Characters like Krem? Very rare. I'd say nearly non-existent. So yes, people finding him interesting due to his gender is not silly or weird.