301 réponses à ce sujet

[Efrim]

How did you link not wanting to buy and use something that is not meant for the platfor the game is released for (xbox controller) with having no attention span. Can't see the connection, If you could enlighten me I would be grateful.

Xbox controllers, like a wide variety of other game pads, and input devices such as joysticks ARE meant to be used with PC games. I keep two precisely for the cases where PC games play better with a gamepad. In this case though - the discussion assumes the devs aren't planning to attempt to address the current issues with KBM controls and zoom which they ARE planning to do.

I'm not sure what illogical, relentless hostility to input devices serves other than to poison the well of discussion personally, but please feel free to ****** enlighten me.

[Estel78]

 

You're doing a lot more trolling than me, you're just upset I was bashing your anxiously awaited toy. Color me indifferent, if you want you can start paying me to care what your opinion is as much as you care about mine, I accept paypal, that seems to be your thing.

 

lol I don't have to know someone personally to critique their business practices, child please. I know them just as well as you do. You need to pipe down on the nonsense. This is a DA forum, I suggest you act like it.

 

 

You seem to care enough to keep replying. Son.

[Syndicate]

To all people claiming PC is such a healthy market for AAA games (not talking about mmos, mobas or solitaire), why do publishers of AAA games put so much focus on console versions and not as much or outright ignore the PC? Think about it... Hint: companies go where the money is.

TBH, consoles would never get many of those "AAA" titles if it wasn't for their PC success. It's often depressing because great PC game/PC inspired games launch, do really well, and then get ruined as the publisher capitalizes on the original hits success but wants to now "AAA" the title by appealing to the mass console/casual market. Elder Scrolls, Battlefield, Diablo, Call of Duty, just to name a few

I'll say it again, I hate the phrase “dumbed-down”, but it's the term most often used to describe this phenomenon. It's is often carelessly hurled at any game that's made a significant change – whether for better or worse. Mass Effect 2, for instance, was in my opinion pretty sensibly streamlined. Lets be honest though, sometimes console fingerprints are so thoroughly caked all over a previously awesome game title's sequel that it's unmistakably the culprit of its failings. For instance, the original Dragon Age was a clear descendant of old-school PC RPGs like Baldur's Gate – multilayered complexities included. Its sequel, by contrast, was a messy mish-mash of console-friendly simplicity, cut-and-paste level design, and tiny glimmers of the original's brilliance... but hey, it sold well. Here we are a 3rd time, and the departure from the original is even further. AI party tactics customization (one of my favorite Dragon Age combat features) has been decimated just as one example. Oftentimes, the issue isn't even so much that developers try to expose console players to popular PC-centric titles. Rather, it's that they do so haphazardly, resulting in an ugly duckling of a product that doesn't entirely fit anywhere... such as Elder Scrolls Online.

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

 

 

 

 

You seem to care enough to keep replying. Son.

 

 

 

So you are just being a troll because I hated on your game, that doesn't even happen to exist?

 

I'm highly amused. Why not reply?

[Estel78]

I hated on your game, that doesn't even happen to exist?

 

Indeed, you hated on a game that doesn't even exist (yet). Stupid.

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

Indeed, you hated on a game that doesn't even exist (yet). Stupid.

 

My opinion on it was free, you paid for yours.

 

Stupid. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Why would they not focus on the platforms with the highest sales numbers? Silly thread.

[Estel78]

TBH, consoles would never get many of those "AAA" titles if it wasn't for their PC success. It's often depressing because great PC game/PC inspired games launch, do really well, and then get ruined as the publisher capitalizes on the original hits success but wants to now "AAA" the title by appealing to the mass console/casual market. Elder Scrolls, Battlefield, Diablo, Call of Duty,

 

I disagree. Skyrim was the best Elder Scrolls to date. Battlefield and CoD are fine for what they are, if you are into such games. I had some good fun with the multiplayer of the late Battlefields. Don't care for Diablo.

[xkg]

Xbox controllers, like a wide variety of other game pads, and input devices such as joysticks ARE meant to be used with PC games. I keep two precisely for the cases where PC games play better with a gamepad. In this case though - the discussion assumes the devs aren't planning to attempt to address the current issues with KBM controls and zoom which they ARE planning to do.

I'm not sure what illogical, relentless hostility to input devices serves other than to poison the well of discussion personally, but please feel free to ****** enlighten me.

 

Yes you can hook it up to PC and use it. Not many ( avery few to be more specific) games are made for PC with the use of controler in mind. Most of them are straight up ports of console games.

 

Joystick is completely different kind of beast, it was there on PC since the begining, and nowadays it's rather used only for simulator games, not much for anything else.

 

So I am not going to spend money on something I would use only for one Bioware game, since they didn't bother to do it right for the platform they are selling the game on.

 

I have no any "hostility" against the controlers. I just don't find them comfortable or easier to use than the original PC "controller" (KB+M)

 

But you didn't answer me, how is that not_want_to_use_controller <-> no_attention_span connection working.

[Syndicate]

I disagree. Skyrim was the best Elder Scrolls to date

Correction: Oblivion was the Bethesda's entry into the console market with the Elder Scrolls series, further proving my point. It's pretty much universally accepted that, Oblivions predecessor, Morrowind, is the best Elder Scrolls title to date. Yes Skyrim was better than Oblivion, however it still suffered many of the compromises console development demands. Without MODs Skyrim is pretty much unplayable imo.

[Aurok]

I think the 'just plug in a controller' crowd are missing the point. With a modicum of additional effort, the game would control fine with either control scheme. They've already done most of the work people are asking for (auto-attack & click-loot both exist in the game), they just haven't put it all together very well.

 

Do PC sales make up the majority of sales? No.

 

Do PC sales make up enough sales to warrant the relatively small amount of extra effort / design awareness required to make the game there as good as it can be? I would certainly hope so.

 

Would games like this be made exclusively for PC anymore? Not anymore, not with this budget. On the other hand, would Bioware (or Bethesda, Infinity Ward, CD Projekt etc. etc....) exist at all if they hadn't been supported in their infancy by PC gamers? Nope, you'd still be running to the right and jumping on mushrooms. So swings and roundabouts.

[Samahl na Revas]

Console player here who loves Tact cam and don't see how they failed. I haven't had any real issue with tact cam that can't be fixed with pressing down right joy stick to toggle between enemies and casting spells etc.

[Lee T]

It probably is a hangover from console led development, but to blame the consoles for that is a cop out. They already went to the trouble of coding click-to-auto-attack and click-to-loot (they work in tac cam), so it would likely be a trivial amount of work to allow those things to function in regular view. At some point they made a deliberate design choice to deny access to that functionality in regular view: that isn't a consolitus issue, it's a poor design choice issue.

It's unfortunate that many people prefer to lay the blame on their fellow gamers rather than on the design team that made a bad design or the bean counters that didn't let them have the time to do their job right.

[robertthebard]

Why is it that PC users believe that their format deserves to be treated better than others?  I understand that the PC version was not optimized, the controls need work, and Bioware should address these issues.  I even believe that Bioware should have made sure that these issues were fixed and that all formats were optimized before release. 
 
What I don't understand is the attitude of overwhelming self righteousness and pretentiousness from many (not all) PC users.  The PC is a powerful machine and you can do a lot with it, but in no way does it deserve to be given special treatment.  The game wasn't ruined because of consoles.  Its time to face facts; consoles are where the money is and developers are going to focus their attention on them.
 
This doesn't mean Bioware gets a pass for releasing substandard versions of their game, but people, please stop acting like some spoiled Orlesian noble who has been somehow slighted by those he/she deems inferior.
 
Disclaimer: I'm not addressing any individuals. I'm just commenting on what I've seen across the forums since release and on some user reviews on other game sites.

I'm not one of the PC Hierarchy, but, I do think they could have built the interface to take advantage of those inherent advantages on a PC. I will also not blame these woes on consoles, per se, but on controllers. I mean, seriously, if I had a modifier key set up on my KB, my mouse has one less button than my controller. If I had an extravagant gaming mouse, all bets would be off, but mine just has 5, well, 6, but one of them is just a wheel, with no other functionality. So yes, I'm disappointed that I feel like I have to use a controller to get the best experience out of a game I bought for my PC. Sue me? If it weren't for the fact that I could have purchased 3 xbones for what I paid for the upgrades on this computer, I might not feel so obligated to point out the shortcomings I'm experiencing with the game. I might even feel entitled to come into threads about those shortcomings telling people to shut up. The fact is, this should have had nothing to do with "PC Master Race", and everything to do with "Why am I forced to use a controller?", and part of the issue is indeed the way the OP worded the title.

However, one that actually takes time to read the OP, instead of seeing the title and responding, will see that there's a pretty fair comparison made, and while the OP did indeed say "console", the end result of the post is "controller" limitations. That is a very real issue, and is an obvious problem. I'm all for being able to use one, I even own one that I use for TW 2 and AC games. I don't appreciate feeling like I need to use one to have an enjoyable experience with the game, especially since I didn't buy it for a console, where that scheme is the rule, instead of the exception.

TL;DR? I'm glad that controller functionality is in, I just wish it hadn't been the primary focus. It does make people believe that it's "consoles" instead of "controller" limitations.

[StingingVelvet]

I think the 'just plug in a controller' crowd are missing the point. With a modicum of additional effort, the game would control fine with either control scheme. They've already done most of the work people are asking for (auto-attack & click-loot both exist in the game), they just haven't put it all together very well.

 

I think it still controls better with M&KB anyway. Switching to a control pad doesn't get me click-to-move or auto-attack, it just makes the camera crappier and removes some useful hotkeys.

[HaHa365]

Lol oh brother

[Tevinter Soldier]

Why am I "a wanker"? It appears some perspective really hit a nerve for you...my apologies, there is no need to attack me.

 

.....ok... play whatever you like and fits your lifestyle the best.

 

Just the incessant need to b**** about those that do? Which is more petty? I would hardly describe my post as a b**** fest, if anything it was just bring some much needed grounding to this thread.

 

No, instead you go full on repressed agro on Internet forums to those who don't dare "take it" like you do and act in kind?

 

This title wasn't marketed as a console game with PC support, nor as a PC game with console support. It was marketed as a cross-plat. I don't see your point.

 

Once again there is that word, "port". Are you under the impression DA:I was advertised as a console port, because it wasn't.

 

No, no I don't. Whats with this "I suffered so now you suffer" undertone I keep sensing.

 

When did I say it did? Stop projecting your RL sh*it on to me dude, you have some issues.

 

Again, making up entire straw man arguments from thin air. Nope, never said it, thought it, or even referenced it. You don't even know what my income, nor what portion of said income I spend on gaming. All I said was PC gamers have different expectations from their games (just like consoles gamers, or mobile gamers) and we are tired of publishers cutting corners rather than developing the game for the platforms they are delivering to. Get off it, no one thinks you're "less" b/c you play a console or use a controller.

 

does it make you feel good to keep calling me names and launch pathetic and childish insults? Apparently you are deeply offended at something I said, and again for that I apologize.

 

It's your responses and ove the top reaction that screams immaturity. Yea, this isn't for me, yes I'm returning the product and yea, I will go on living my life. Take my post in context, I'm posting in a forum, online, about a role playing video game. On a scale of how important this is in the world of me, it's like a zero. Do you really think I give a flying f*** if you game on a console? a PC? or prefer live action role-play? Nope, but judging from your reaction to my post .... you REALLY REALLY do.

 

 

wow..........

[Natureguy85]

People hating on the combat, tell me; have you ever played Tera Online or/and Vindictus? Same or similar control setup, it's easy to get used to. DA:O was clunky, slow. DA:I is not.

 

With a mouse and keyboard you will have, for example, a mouse pointer that often disappears and no walk toggle. I don't like using a gamepad myself but when I switched to a gamepad for this game, wow. Everything is smoother. Yes they apparently did not test the game for very long with a mouse and keyboard setup. So now I prefer to us my 360 controller, it spared me the headache I got with a keyboard and mouse.

 

And there's the issue. You just brought up two MMOs to compare to what used to be a tactical RPG. In the former you have one character, but in Dragon Age you control four.

[Nefla]

The crappy companion ai, inability to set tactics, and inability to change your equipment or abilities in combat (or use te radial menu to use the extra ones like in previous games) have nothing do do with consoles.

[Shryke]

And there's the issue. You just brought up two MMOs to compare to what used to be a tactical RPG. In the former you have one character, but in Dragon Age you control four.

This is my biggest issue with the game, and why I will probably give the game a pass. Combat, one of my favorite aspects of RPGs, is no longer tactical. It's just a frenetic mess where everything happens too fast and is obscured by too much flash to be able to effectively control each character to maximize their benefit. Combat like this gets stale very quickly, which makes it tiresome to have to deal with when it occurs with as much frequency as it does in Bioware games. 

[robmokron]

Correction: Oblivion was the Bethesda's entry into the console market with the Elder Scrolls series, further proving my point. It's pretty much universally accepted that, Oblivions predecessor, Morrowind, is the best Elder Scrolls title to date. Yes Skyrim was better than Oblivion, however it still suffered many of the compromises console development demands. Without MODs Skyrim is pretty much unplayable imo.

Morrowind was on Xbox... and it was great.


This thread has become a hige "PC Gamers are the majority of the gaming market"

 

Its True, everyone owns a PC, there are many PC exclusive games and indie games.

 

However one must accept that multiplatform games, and AAA companies, focus on consoles because of sales. 3-5 consoles vs Pc, the sales are bigger on consoles everytime. Again! this is MULTIPLATFORM games. not the entire market as a whole,

 

Mobile gaming is winning that me thinks

[Aurok]

I think it still controls better with M&KB anyway. Switching to a control pad doesn't get me click-to-move or auto-attack, it just makes the camera crappier and removes some useful hotkeys.

 

I tried both and opted for M&K too. If you want to play it as a poor action game (which all reviewers did and most players will) then controller is definitely the way to go. If you want to play it as a somewhat-tactical RPG then I think M&K is the very slightly less unwieldy option.

 

If the game had a full tactics system, even a mediocre UI and a few other minor tweaks then this game would be like a 9 or 10 for me. The world is stunning. Sadly the shoelace cam and having to micromanage every companion at every second to prevent them being stupid relegates it to about a 6.

[Giubba]

It's becoming incredibly frustrating that yet again another game is ruined because of consoles. DA:I has all the makings of a truly great game, but all the fun is sapped out of it by the clunky and fiddly controls. It feels like the game is designed to try and appease players who want both action oriented combat and tactical combat, and in doing so it fails at both.

Arkham City = smooth, responsive action oriented combat, controls are excellent
Baldurs Gate = Fantastic tactical combat, very easy to control

Two examples (there are many more) of excellent combat systems. Both games know exactly what they want to be. One is designed for a controller, the other is designed for mouse ans keyboard. Simple enough.

Then we have DA:I, a game designed for both, but fails at both. Please, game developers, stop trying to please the entire gaming community by dumbing down features and messing around with silly control mechanisms, it doesn't work. Decide on what sort of combat you want and perfect it. This current hybrid abomination is horrible.

I'm sorely disappointed as I love the world, the story, the characters, everything but the most important aspect of any game; actually controlling it.

haha no

[_Motoki_]

This thread just makes me go 'Oh the internet'. 

 

FWIW I'm very much enjoying DA:I on the PC including yes even the combat, loved the first game, hated the second. Using a controller for DA:I. Yes PC gamers who use controllers exist. Hell I wanted to use it for DA2 which was so blatantly obviously created around a controller but Bioware got stubborn about that for some reason.

 

Correction: Oblivion was the Bethesda's entry into the console market with the Elder Scrolls series, further proving my point. It's pretty much universally accepted that, Oblivions predecessor, Morrowind, is the best Elder Scrolls title to date. Yes Skyrim was better than Oblivion, however it still suffered many of the compromises console development demands. Without MODs Skyrim is pretty much unplayable imo.

 

There actually was a release of Morrowind for the XBox. The original, not 360. It didn't get really popular on consoles until Oblivion but the XBox Morrowind release did happen. I can't image the controls work all that well with a controller and the game even for it's day kind of looked like ass without mods (and I say this as someone who loves that game; it's fantastic but it needs some extreme makeover mod love) so I'm guessing that's partly why it didn't really take off.

[xkg]

wow..........

 

You called him "wanker" first, unprovoked, then when he refuted your BS post it's all you can come up with. Hahah bravo...