450 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You might call it a romance, I don´t. For me having sex is part of the romance. Along with cuddling, kisses, hugs, gifts, etc yes. But, it is definitely a core function in a romance. You might not think so but I do. I would not stay with a person who is not willing to sleep with me. Eventually. And it has nothing to do with reproduction.

Then do one of the 7 other romances in the game that has sex be a part of it. Josephine however is the rare option for those who don't consider sex a requirement for a romance to be a romance. You can't say something is objectively not a romance because of your list of requirements. Hundreds of millions of people consider what the Inquisitor/Josephine have as a romantic relationship, so are they all wrong? Regardless Bioware says it is, so it is. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Ishten, I wanted to reply to this specific part of your post, which I think is outright incorrect based on my initial playthrough of DA:I.

 

For safety's sake, I'll explain in a spoiler tag:

 

Spoiler

I've only romanced Sera thus far. However, what happens with her is not at all what you describe in DA:I, and is in fact far closer to DA:O. She flirts with you occasionally before you even try to initiate. She speaks with you openly (if you're an elf) about her preferences and how you being an elf could be a problem, so she's unsure. But she never outright pulls away and begs for you to chase; she's feeling the situation out.

 

Once you really get a chance to initiate, she becomes the impatient one. She tells you flat out that she wants you, and that she already knows she does, so what's the point in all this talking? After that, she gives you a pet name, gives you cookies and invites you out to one of her favorite spots to tell you stuff about herself she doesn't share with others. Then she invites you to go have some fun, and brings you along to pull pranks on other party members, just the two of you. As the game progresses, she comes out to comfort/flirt with you after the events of Wicked Hearts, and even dances with you despite knowing nothing at all about what she's doing. She also tries to get you a present-- though she instead turns it into a pinata because she decided it was ugly. (That's just who she is in a nutshell.) She even throws a punch at you when you worry her about your life, and has a dream that she loses you, and it throws her in such a fit that she realizes she may actually lose you in this chaos and goes on rambling about all the things she loves about you before eventually realizing that she does, in fact, love you way more than she realized. None of this was forced by the player. You're not her "puppy dog" in any of this.

 

It's one of the most authentic romances I've seen Bioware script, and I loved every second of it. While I adore Morrigan as a character and did enjoy the romance with her, there's no way your current argument against DA:I's romance writing holds any weight against the romance with Sera.

 

There. Got it out of my system.

 

Good to know that  .

 

However, as much as I like Sera, my arguments were directed at the heterosexual romance. My male Inquisitor cannot romance Sera you see. He is stuck between a Disney Princess who friendzones him and a more-sword-than-sense, over-the top religious woman with a poor taste in literature. Hence my complaint. 

 

I will however, agree that Dorian's romance and Sera's romance were done well. Sera's especially. 

[King Dragonlord]

I'm a hetero woman and I opted to play as a man and explore all the options given to a male inquisitor. I am more intrigued by the options given to a male protagonist.

And a female inquisitor is capable of romancing Josephine, thus the "straight man" shares his options with gay women.

And for the record, my girlfriend is a lesbian and she's pretty sad that Cassandra isn't available as a lesbian option. The grass is always greener.

 

I'm a hetero man and I think I'm good looking. All women should be happy with me as a romance option . . . 

 

Yeah. You see how that sounds?

[Rykoth]

And as the awesome developer of the Josie romance has said - sex is implied, or it isn't - it's up to the player to determine. Just because I don't see a couple have sex doesn't mean they don't. I assume that when my Inquisitor finally won her over, they did get in bed - but the story shown is one of a courtship, of a romance. You don't need to witness the sex. I like when they show it. I like when they imply it. As long as the story is good.

 

That's all that matters.

 

I'd take no options for straight men and all options for everyone else if they were amazingly written. Quality over quantity. Bioware knocked it out of the park this time.

 

If you don't like your options, don't choose. And if you're not comfortable with your own self to play as a female or a non straight male? Not Bioware's problem.

[Uccio]

Then do one of the 7 other romances in the game that has sex be a part of it. Josephine however is the rare option for those who don't consider sex a requirement for a romance to be a romance. You can't say something is objectively not a romance because of your list of requirements. Hundreds of millions of people consider what the Inquisitor/Josephine have as a romantic relationship, so are they all wrong? Regardless Bioware says it is, so it is. 

 

Well there is a slight problem. I don´t play gay characters. Straight female characters are for secondary play trough. So my canon straight male play trough has only one option. Come to think of it, that means straight male gamers are really getting the short end of the stick here. I thought I was playing a mature graded game but obviously disney hand holding counts as mature these days.

[pablosplinter]

I ended up not romancing anyone. Tbh, I didn't find any of them interesting enough, though I did think I might do after the campaign, but unfortunately nobody will speak to you!

[Lady Artifice]

One thing about Josephine...If she did immediately offer sex to the Inquisitor after they (male or female participate in this, I assume?) fight a duel over her, that would get...a lot of complaints itself. It would seem to some that she's being treated like an object to be won.

 

Not that I don't sympathize with those wanting more options and more DA classic romances with female companions. The alluring female rogue just seems like tradition, as does the dark haired dark magic lady raised outside of human civilization. That's probably why they went somewhere different...but I don't think it's unreasonable for straight male gamers to wish for a third option. 

 

That said, the claims that women are getting these idealized fantasy romances are stretching it. The female options have complications and subjective issues as well. Not many people are getting their personalized ideal. Not that we expect to, at this point.

[AresKeith]

Calling Josephine less of a romance because of no sex scene? lol 

 

 

SMH

[JakeLeTDK]

As a straight male gamer, I actually like how they handle romance options in DAI. No offense, but most straight female romance options in the previous da and ME suck big time. The only ones I consider interesting was Thane and Garrus. The rest are pretty much whiny pretty boys with emotional problem ( especially DA2, oh Maker, the whining is unbearable). I'm glad they have good old fashion strong reliable men like Blackwall and Iron Bull for ladies this round.

And are you kidding me? Cass is a strong, capable woman, with a hidden softer side that I found incredibly adorable. And Josephine is just pure cute. I don't see why the complain here, I love them both XD

And to OP: shut up for once. The one time ladies actually have good option, you whine because straight male is no longer center of the universe. Seriously :/ that kind of attitude brought shame to us male gamers.

[QueenofFereldan]

Working on romancing Cullen...and I like it better even than Alistair. I mean, I haven't gotten far, but Cullen is more sure of himself than Alistair was and he makes sure to know about the Inquisitor's feelings about the Herald deal.

Alistair shows concern for your Warden, but I will admit that he doesn't always do. And it took me hardening him in order for him to stand up for himself. Still my favorite Origins LI, but I am taking a liking to Cullen more.

[King Dragonlord]

Yes, it sounds incorrect. Cassandra is not sentient - she's written. (Written by a man no less.) Nor is the character expecting to be romanced.

I'll fix it for you:

"I'm a game developer and writer and I created what I think is an amazing character who is a large part of the overall plot. And just for kicks, I'll write in the OPTION to romance her. But I've decided to write her as heterosexual, so only a male inquisitor (regardless of the PLAYER'S GENDER or sexual preferences) is able to explore her romance arc."

p.s. Don't be so dramatic.

 

I have no problem with the romances myself. Whats been making my eyes roll is hetero women like you thinking that because you think she's pretty and desirable that straight men should too. I don't presume about what you should find attractive (apart from my earlier joke.)

[JohnstonMR]

Well there is a slight problem. I don´t play gay characters. Straight female characters are for secondary play trough. So my canon straight male play trough has only one option. Come to think of it, that means straight male gamers are really getting the short end of the stick here. I thought I was playing a mature graded game but obviously disney hand holding counts as mature these days.

 

"mature" does not mean "sex scenes."  The game is FULL of mature themes and storylines.  

[Uccio]

"mature" does not mean "sex scenes."  The game is FULL of mature themes and storylines.  

 

Really, I had no idea. Thank you for clearing that out for me.

Why is it that when ever someone expects maturity include some sort of sexual encounter, besides the endless gore and dark story where people die, get tortured, tears fall over dead loved ones etc., people assume it means 70´s porn movie style?

[King Dragonlord]

I'm sure more than just "hetero women like me" have expressed that sentiment. Are you not irritated by the gay men who have leapt to Cassandra's defense? Or the straight men? Or the lesbians' opinions? What about the transgendered players who have defended this character? Is it just "hetero women like me" who grate on you? My, what a triggering phrase you employed in your side of the argument. A sure sign that you've lost the debate and now you're desperately aiming for low blows.

And I'm not telling you who you should find attractive. I'm saying that players' perceptions of Cassandra as "ugly" are distorted. You can be not attracted to a person, but THAT doesn't qualify that person as generally ugly. Get over yourself.

Only using the term you used to describe yourself. 

 

And do you not see how those two sentences (emphasis mine) clash?

 

Also, you're telling me that some people's perceptions of Cassandra's beauty/ugliness are "distorted" and you tell me to get over myself? That's the pot calling the kettle black. 

[SpiritMuse]

This is my response to Kallen as well. 
 
Male-female sexual relations are, at its core, a form of business transaction. It is a give and take process with reproduction and sexual intercourse as its end goal. 
 
Let's examine Josephine's romance arc shall we ?
 
Inquisitor
 
-Has to flirt at every turn with Josephine throughout the game.
-Has to get into a duel, a potentially life threatening scenario with another man to woo her.
-Has to openly announce his love for Josephine in public or risk being publicly humiliated by Josephine's rejection.
 
Josephine
 
-Gives the Inquisitor a few kisses.
 
You see the problem here ?
 
Josephine gives almost nothing to an Inquisitor who has to do all these things and take all the risks of relationship initiation and love proposal. That or Josephine's kisses are somehow equal in worth to what the Inquisitor has to do to obtain them. 
 
The least Josephine could have done as commensurate compensation is have sexual intercourse with the Inquisitor. 
 
You would have to be a massive blind tool to not see that Josephine's romance is extremely one sided, it borders along friendzone.

I... am actually quite creeped out by this. I can't help but be reminded of a quote I once read:

"Women are not vending machines that you put kindness coins in until sex falls out."

[Uccio]

Exactly. It's also full of violence, but people forget that decapitation, stabbing, setting people on fire, and torture are considered mature. 

 

 

 

Because people are desensitized to violence, which is a troubling reality. Violence is an "everyday thing" in so many people's minds and rarely taken into consideration when something is given a mature rating. People are so accepting of violence, yet they treat sex like a dirty, nasty thing that needs a special "mature" label because it must be - like you've described - something pornographic. So many people equate "mature" with "porn" and then equate "porn" with human sexuality. Disturbing. 

 

 

I agree with that. It just grinds my gears when someone pops out to point a finger and shouts "you want pixel porn!". I don´t see it like that, for me maturity includes all aspects of life.

[2_BR4ZIL_2]

Good to know that  .

 

However, as much as I like Sera, my arguments were directed at the heterosexual romance. My male Inquisitor cannot romance Sera you see. He is stuck between a Disney Princess who friendzones him and a more-sword-than-sense, over-the top religious woman with a poor taste in literature. Hence my complaint. 

 

I will however, agree that Dorian's romance and Sera's romance were done well. Sera's especially. 

 

 

If you think Cassandra is "over the top religious" then you kinda failed at making her change her views on you (which i guess its only avaiable for the ones that want to romance her).

 

I personally loved the way you can make her more understanding of your anti-chantry position, plus i dont find it one sided as with Josephine, Cassandra surely doesnt belive that you like her at first, but she likes you and definitly shows that during the cutscenes, either by holding hands and acting slightly out of her normal personality or just outright telling you during her "The Ideal Romance" quest.

 

Its also cool that you dont need to pick the "woo" option every time to romance Cassy, she values someone who has his head straight, so no need to be a romantic dofus when in a situation that doesnt requires it.

 

Of course, when the time requires for romantic goofness, then Cass is all for it

 

I guess we just have diferent opinions, while i really liked Dorian's character (even tho the "Gay son/Father disapproves" is such a cliche) i will have to disagree on Sera, i really found her to be a poorly written obnoxious character.

 

So much so that i think the developers knew that and thankfully allowed me to boot her out of the Inquisition at any time.

[Vita Brevis]

The least Josephine could have done as commensurate compensation is have sexual intercourse with the Inquisitor. 

Ok, that's enough internet for today. 

[Hadeedak]

Sometimes a game just misses your buttons, and there's no one character who clicks for your first playthrough.

 

I didn't particularly care for any of the romances in Origins at first blush. Or 2, for that matter. I did later playthroughs where I charmed the socks off those characters, but my first playthrough of Origins was a solitary thing. With a lot of bros for life. (Until my warden died. Details.) Somehow, I wound up with Fenris in 2. Still not sure how that happened. Since I wasn't chasing anyone else, he hurried on back, and I enjoyed it, but I can't say that romance is my gravy boat.

 

I'm not sure anyone's going to charm off my socks in DAI, either. And you know what? If they don't, I'm good with that.

[Rykoth]

I'm beginning to think these people claiming to be disappointed are just trolls.

[DragonRacer]

I dunno, man. You might not be so unhappy about straight female romances if you know where some of them go/end up.

 

Have only played Solas's so far and as absolutely sweet and yummy as it starts...

 

Spoiler

The entire thing ends in complete and utter heartbreak. And then a gigantic mindf**k after the post-game credits screen. That... uh... wow, yeah. Still not sure what to think of that romance option at this point. Other than "yay, I had the option to be crushed and now I'mma go console myself with fanfiction"? 

[Vita Brevis]

I dunno, man. You might not be so unhappy about straight female romances if you know where some of them go/end up.

Do they even care?

From what I gather, they just want more booties, doesn't matter if that ends in tears and blood - "doesn't matter had snu snu".