138 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

I guess the answer is Synthesis. The reasons why that is are never explained and what's there is pretty hokey -- but it's hard to beat transcending mortality and the game seems to treat it as the best option.

[TMA LIVE]

I guess the answer is Synthesis. The reasons why that is are never explained and what's there is pretty hokey -- but it's hard to beat transcending mortality and the game seems to treat it as the best option.

 

Forcing an entire galaxy of races to change in order to not be harvested is an unmoral thing. That's the bad part about synthesis in general, and why Control is more blue for Paragon (no one changes, and no one dies except Shepard). However, I guess why it's considered the best option is that everyone besides Shepard lives. It's peace for everyone, including the Reapers who're hopefully now not under the control of the Catalyst. No race has to be wiped completely out. Instead, they're just changed. When EDI says "I'm alive, and I'm not alone" I don't think it's because she's been Sythesized and is now "officially alive" as some assume, but more of "Shepard didn't pick a choice that killed me, as well as giving me a future, considering I'm an illegal AI in hiding in a society that usually kills me".

[ImaginaryMatter]

Forcing an entire galaxy of races to change in order to not be harvested is an unmoral thing. That's the bad part about synthesis in general, and why Control is more blue for Paragon (no one changes, and no one dies except Shepard). However, I guess why it's considered the best option is that everyone besides Shepard lives. It's peace for everyone, including the Reapers who're hopefully now not under the control of the Catalyst. When EDI says "I'm alive, and I'm not alone" I don't think it's because she's been Sythesized and is now "officially alive" as some assume, but more of "Shepard didn't pick a choice that killed me, as well as giving me a future considering I'm an illegal AI in hiding in a society that usually kills me".

 

And generally I would agree with you. However, the game possibly handwaves away this moral quagmire. The Catalyst says it's something that cannot be forced and seems to imply that the galaxy is somehow ready for it through whatever set contrivances that lets it allow Shepard to pick and choose an option. In the epilogue everyone seems perfectly fine with it. I think there should have been some sort of trade off but my point is the game itself seems to paint the choice in such white brush strokes.

 

For the record I picked Control pre-EC, installed the EC, uninstalled the EC, then just dance around the Catalyst shooting bullets through it (or meta-Refuse as I like to call it).

[Daemul]

I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to know what's best for the galaxy, that sort of attitude is beneath me, all I know is that, in those final moments, I chose what I thought was right and just.

[Gambit458]

Forcing an entire galaxy of races to change in order to not be harvested is an unmoral thing. That's the bad part about synthesis in general, and why Control is more blue for Paragon (no one changes, and no one dies except Shepard). However, I guess why it's considered the best option is that everyone besides Shepard lives. It's peace for everyone, including the Reapers who're hopefully now not under the control of the Catalyst. No race has to be wiped completely out. Instead, they're just changed. When EDI says "I'm alive, and I'm not alone" I don't think it's because she's been Sythesized and is now "officially alive" as some assume, but more of "Shepard didn't pick a choice that killed me, as well as giving me a future, considering I'm an illegal AI in hiding in a society that usually kills me".

Control isn't more blue for Paragon. As I've seen someone say, what's to say Shepard doesn't decide to be tyrannical someday as the leader of the Reapers and enforce his will upon everyone? Destroy is kind of the best option because yes it does wipe out the synthetics, sadly, but as the catalyst implied..they could be rebuilt. 

[SwobyJ]

Control isn't more blue for Paragon. As I've seen someone say, what's to say Shepard doesn't decide to be tyrannical someday as the leader of the Reapers and enforce his will upon everyone? Destroy is kind of the best option because yes it does wipe out the synthetics, sadly, but as the catalyst implied..they could be rebuilt. 

 

Its Blue because like with everything Paragon, it establishes and builds trust. Trust that can be broken, or sometimes gained through indirect or suspicious means (like rewriting the Geth in ME2).

[GalacticWolf5]

Its Blue because like with everything Paragon, it establishes and builds trust. Trust that can be broken, or sometimes gained through indirect or suspicious means (like rewriting the Geth in ME2).

Control is Paragon and Renegade. There's 2 versions of the ending. You should watch them on youtube.

[Display Name Owner]

In Shep's boots I don't think I would trust that shooting a tube which looks like it has a volatile fuel coursing through it would activate a complex set of machinery.

 

"Wait a second Calatyst, are u trying to cheat me?" 

 

"Sheprd pls".

[teh DRUMPf!!]

When EDI says "I'm alive, and I'm not alone" I don't think it's because she's been Sythesized and is now "officially alive" as some assume, but more of "Shepard didn't pick a choice that killed me, as well as giving me a future, considering I'm an illegal AI in hiding in a society that usually kills me".

 

Yeah, I interpreted it that way as well.

[SwobyJ]

Control is Paragon and Renegade. There's 2 versions of the ending. You should watch them on youtube.

 

lol

[GalacticWolf5]

lol

What's so funny?

[Quarian Master Race]

High EMS Destroy. Synthesis is obviously terrible, so it's out. As for the other 2 endings, it has no lasting infrastructure damage, Reapers are gone and no duplicitous geth or dictatorial Shep VI to try anything genocidey to everyone else.

 

[Pasquale1234]

One thing that Synthesis advocates seem to be overlooking is the fact that it is not a permanent "solution" or guarantee of ongoing galactic peace and harmony for a couple of reasons:

- New species will continue to evolve, and they will be pure organic / synthetic. Unless the synthesized species have both the capability and the will to inflict synthesis on all of them as they emerge, you will still end up with organic / synthetic dissonance - and the cycles would continue.

- Any systems outside the AOE of the relays networked to the Citadel would not be impacted by the magic space energy, so no change.

- It only addresses conflict between organics and synthetics. War / power struggles could still erupt between different groups or factions of synthesized life forms.

... unless you believe that synthesis would include some sort of galactic mind-meld, where individuals are all like nodes of some greater galactic whole - in which case, any instincts, emotions, desires, free will, or individuality of organics would be obliterated... and if that happens, they may just as well be all pure synthetic.

Synthesis is the ultimate "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ending. The only real difference (aside from Shepard's sacrifice) is that you'd be synthesized in your current form instead of going through the process of being harvested to be synthesized into reaper form.

With high-EMS destroy and Shepard's survival, Shepard will be able to convey all that was learned from the Catalyst to the galactic community. It maintains individuality, free will, and diversity, and gives the galactic community the opportunity to work together toward a different "solution".

[CaIIisto]

On the bright side, after being synthesised you get to fly around the Galaxy in those cool cube ships......oh, hold on, no that was Star Trek.....Go Cyborgs! Erm I mean synthetic individuals who in no way, shape or form would ever have resisted assimi.....erm synthesis.....

[Alamar2078]

As far as Synthesis goes there is nothing keeping the Reapers & the current species from just activating the GSM [Green Space Magic] again.  Even if you had to rebuild a Citadel, Crucible, and Relay system you'd likely have BILLIONS of years to spare before you'd need to fire another impulse.

 

While I DETEST Synthesis I get the impression that the synthesized beings were supposed to be superior to either pure organics or pure synthetics so neither one could overtake synthesized beings and prove a threat to the current status quo.

[ImaginaryMatter]

As far as Synthesis goes there is nothing keeping the Reapers & the current species from just activating the GSM [Green Space Magic] again.  Even if you had to rebuild a Citadel, Crucible, and Relay system you'd likely have BILLIONS of years to spare before you'd need to fire another impulse.

 

While I DETEST Synthesis I get the impression that the synthesized beings were supposed to be superior to either pure organics or pure synthetics so neither one could overtake synthesized beings and prove a threat to the current status quo.

 

It makes you wonder what exactly is a synthesized being. As an option, I think it's basically a measure of how strongly you trust the Catalyst's opinion on things because I can't see how any rational person can choose something which has so many unknowns. Even then, the Catalyst thinks the Reaper plan is preservation so it's views on what might be good could very well differ from our own. The writers don't even seem to have an idea about what it entails. For the EC they wrote that organics will be able to fully integrate with synthetic technology; is the Catalyst being redundant here or is it saying organics can only fully integrate with technology built by AI (or whatever a Synthetic is)? And Synthetics gain 'understanding' which is so vague it doesn't mean anything.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

One thing that Synthesis advocates seem to be overlooking is the fact that it is not a permanent "solution" or guarantee of ongoing galactic peace and harmony for a couple of reasons:

 

To me (an "advocate") it is not really the solution or its permanence that matters. I am fine with things ending as they do in Destroy, because I am optimistic about the galaxy moving forward and think they can tackle any challenges that may arise.

 

However, that also becomes reason why I reject what Destroy offers (safety/peace-of-mind, and nothing else) next to the other two. I am confident that the galaxy can make use of what the other two endings offer them and that any problems that arise will get figured out. In the end, the future in Blue and Green look comparatively more appealing to me than it does in Red.

 

Though, I am not sure if I would really pick Control over Destroy, but that's beside the point.

[God]

It comes down to how you look at it. I acknowledge what synthesis and control offer us (I'm even hoping to use the Reaper tech to enact the former) and what benefits we could receive, but I'm not really one to go with the plan under the auspices of Reaper parameters. Synthesis, as presented by the Catalyst, is too much under the control of the Reapers, and I feel that the Catalyst is blurring what it wants with what is really right. I'd like to have synthesis, just not under the possible control or auspice of the Reapers.

 

Control meanwhile seems to be more of an enforcement on the status quo, and one that sort of hinders the progression of life, culture, etc. to maintain the current. As well, I never know how the Shepard AI might come to view the races of the galaxy hundreds, thousands, or longer numbers of years into the future. He doesn't seem forthcoming with how he's going to enforce his perspective, or what constitutes a destruction worthy offense. Hell, he might even adopt the same policy in the future at some point over an entirely different action. 

 

Destroy, I feel is safest, because it puts us on the level of the Reapers without necessarily succumbing to them. It is also the ending state where they are unambiguously taken out of the picture (for better or worse). That leaves me free to deal with our own future and enacting a more long-term solution to the issue presented by the Catalyst (as well as forwarding my own agenda). The way I see it, there are two solutions to the Catalyst's dilemma (sans Reapers of course). 

 

1) We work to induce our own version of synthesis or a tech singularity

 

2) We maintain a certain status quo of never developing advanced, sapient artificial intelligence. This one might not seem the best way (and I support developing a means for the singularity on our own), but there is one little issue with what the Catalyst says: why exactly does synthetic life (as it is described by the Catalyst) need to exist at all? You can build sophisticated robots and machines to operate and fulfill every function without making them sapient or intelligent. 

 

Synthetics aren't necessarily an 'essential' form of technology in the way the Catalyst thinks they are. Nor does the lack of advancement in the field of AI prevent the advancement in other fields of science and technology. Synthetics aren't a part of us any more than they ever were. That's the issue I take with the Catalyst's logic.

[prosthetic soul]

The best ending for the galaxy is HIGH EMS Destroy.  It's just that simple. 

 

Spoiler

But in reality, they're all equally terrible for the galaxy...this is just if I was forced to make a choice between them..

[Iakus]

Nevermind.  I should take my own advice

[BioWareMod03]

Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 rofl ... what did he do now, I wonder?

[Pasquale1234]

To me (an "advocate") it is not really the solution or its permanence that matters. I am fine with things ending as they do in Destroy, because I am optimistic about the galaxy moving forward and think they can tackle any challenges that may arise.
 
However, that also becomes reason why I reject what Destroy offers (safety/peace-of-mind, and nothing else) next to the other two.

I think that Destroy has the most potential to open up more possibilities.

It's true that destroying the existing reapers would mean the annihilation of all of those other life forms "preserved" within - but I have to wonder what's actually going on within those reapers. Are those bazillions of lives enjoying their immortality in their current state? Do they have anything to offer or share with the rest of the galaxy? They've been presented as isolated sentient machines, programmed to run cycles...

Consider this:

If a group of humans went to live on a planet that has barely enough oxygen to survive, they would adapt, and over the next few millennia, become a species that thrives on less oxygen than their ancestors. You would essentially be creating a different species - or at least a subset of one.

Likewise, if you synthesized some, but not all humans, and allowed these 2 groups to continue to evolve independently, they would further differentiate over time. This option is not available in the Synthesis ending - it's all or nothing.

When you synthesize all members of a species, you are essentially bringing about the extinction of that species in its non-synthesized form.

I guess my biggest objection to synthesis is that I feel it is a form of diversity-reducing homogenization.

Of course, the story as presented gives us so little information about what it means and its ramifications, we're probably all making different assumptions

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I think that Destroy has the most potential to open up more possibilities.

 

How? Intact Reapers are more useful than broken ones, which is an advantage Control and Sync have over it, and the latter gives organics abilities they did not have previously. Destroy literally offers no (tangible) gain over the other two. Not that I can see.
 

Consider this:

If a group of humans went to live on a planet that has barely enough oxygen to survive, they would adapt, and over the next few millennia, become a species that thrives on less oxygen than their ancestors. You would essentially be creating a different species - or at least a subset of one.

Er, no, it would be the same species evolved.

 

Life is not static, it is ever-changing.

What's one more change?

[God]

Honestly, I don't think there's really any difference in the possibilities from the options.

 

Each has a unique concept of Reaper technology that are different from each other.

 

In Destroy, you have Reaper tech that you're now entirely in control of.

 

In Control, the Reaper tech is largely beyond your power and remains intact as its own faction

 

In Synthesis, you have more of a joint relationship with it, being more of a cooperative with the Reapers rather than a state where one side or the other remains in power.

 

Of course, they each have their downsides as well.

 

In destroy, yeah, you're limiting yourself with broken Reaper tech over functional tech (though I wonder how far the idea of functional goes)

 

In control and synthesis, you put yourself in a direct and indirect state of Reaper control, either of which may be philosophically terrifying if you really think about it.

 

A lot of it is what your priorities are.