100 réponses à ce sujet

[ArvinDulku]

What bad decision did they make?

Bioware doesn't bother explaining what lead the mages to pledging themselves into servitude, probably because they couldn't think of any real reason that wasn't utterly ridiculous. I think that was a really huge plot hole. I mean if we assume that the mages were reasonably intelligent, then it should have been obvious that the Tevinter mages were scumbags who couldn't be trusted. That guy was the most obvious villain since Seymour summoned Dagon from the Underworld in Final Fantasy 10. And there is no real doubt that the Tevinter empire is completely evil and corrupt.

And what were they even gaining? Maybe the help of 2 extra mages? 1 of whom was suffering from cancer or corruption and so wouldn't have been of much help anyways...

And once he had the mages, why did he continue to stick around in Redcliffe for no reason at all? Why didn't they all high tail it back to Tevinter then and there? Instead they hang around Redcliffe for weeks on end with no real purpose while their enemies gather together to overthrow them.

If we want to dig even further, why are the only people who are even aware of the altered timeline those in Redcliffe? Shouldn't everyone's memory of events have been changed the moment that the Tevinter mages go back in time?

Also we need to consider how the mages were all but coerced to pledge themselves to Tevinter, who procured an agreement through a mixture of fraud and force.

We also don't know how the mages came to occupy Redcliffe or if the mages had been welcomed into Redcliffe where they remained peacefully until the timeline was altered at which point the narrative got lost anyways.

Ultimately the mages seem to be innocent of any actual crime, the only crime that was committed in Redcliffe was poor storytelling.

That is the most impressive attempt to bend facts to defend the fact mages made a horrible, horrible decision.

Quite simply Fiona made a damn stupid decision cause as anyone who's beyond half wit would know that they were losing this war.

And because she is an uber ****** who instead of getting on her knees and begging the chantry to take them back instead chose to dig in and refused to yield.

Cue Tevinter.

Who she allowed to fester on sovereign Ferelden soil, a nation that had actually offered them refugee status.

I guess that's how mages repay favors, by allowing states enemies unto your front door and washing their hands of the more cuntish elements of your rebellion who went to wage war with the Templars amongst the mundane populous.

I had actually gone to Redcliffe to conscript the mages, but after finding out what stupidity they had gotten up to., I was like nope that ain't happening.

Did the Templars instead and by george that was awesome ****.

Hell the whole things is worth it simply for Ser Barris, whom later on the War Table ops shows ya what a true, noble Templar who uphold the tenets of his duty can be.

Good man ser, bravo.

As the effects of the time dilation effects? As per all time travels events the standard "timey-wimey" trope comes into play, thus allowing the party writing to play it anyway they wish without having to justify it.

Anyway,

[Indhoy]

I allied with them. Figured I should just go all out since I lost the Templar support anyway.

 

Weird thing I noticed. Cassandra greatly disapproved of this choice. 2 minutes later she tells me, in a conversation, that she approved of it.

 

This is so true. Even in the next cut scene and if you talk to her in Haven's camp, she'd say she approves it. Why do we get "Cassandra greatly disapproved" for this choice? I suppose its a bug, please fix it Bioware. 

[LegendaryBlade]

>There are people who didn't save the Templars

You monsters

[revolix]

To the guy who said the redcliffe plot didn't make sense: obviously you haven't been paying attention. The magister joined a cult led by the elder one and they were obsessed with the herald because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended up with the mark. So it was the magisters job to lure him there by beating him to redcliffe hence the time travel. The mages who are allied with the rebels are still very disorganized and they allied with tevinter mainly because they were rescued by the magisters. If you actually spoke to the rebel mages around town, alot of them disagreed with the grand enchanter and didnt like tevinter. But those who didnt agree were thrown out. Nothing really happens to leliana permanently because that was a future time part of the plot when you do the mission. Aside from approvals and conversation there is no immediate consequence but as most know bioware remembers your choices and during these opportunities we have to think of the story as much as the immediate consequences. As justinia says, they may rebel again, and its not surprising because these are all major plot, subplot and lore parts to the dragon age universe ever since the creation of the dark spawn

[Kenshen]

This is so true. Even in the next cut scene and if you talk to her in Haven's camp, she'd say she approves it. Why do we get "Cassandra greatly disapproved" for this choice? I suppose its a bug, please fix it Bioware. 

 

No she doesn't.  She supports your choice that is not the same thing as approving of it.

[aeoncs]

I'm usually kind of neutral about the whole Mage/Templar conflict as both sides are equally right and wrong, but only a colossal fool and/or idealist would be willing to completely trust the Mages after all their f*ckups.

Trust is earned, so even a Mage Inquisitor can't just magically hand it over. It's as Bull said - a leader needs to be able to make a tough call and live with its consequences - arresting them and forcing their cooperation is more than justified and in this case the more reasonable choice. They've brought in on themselves.

[OdanUrr]

I gave them a second chance and had them as allies. After all, a lot of them, if not most, didn't approve Fiona's decision.

[Chadness]

And once he had the mages, why did he continue to stick around in Redcliffe for no reason at all? Why didn't they all high tail it back to Tevinter then and there? Instead they hang around Redcliffe for weeks on end with no real purpose while their enemies gather together to overthrow them.

Well, he had ties to the Inquisition, since apparently they were involved in the whole plot at the Temple of Sacred Ashes. They even seemed to know the Inquisition wanted the help of the mages (or templars, but at that point, I believe you had to have chosen the mages for sure). I would assume that would be reason enough to stick around and not leave the mages to their own devices and possibly let them easily join the Inquisition. Makes sense to me.

If we want to dig even further, why are the only people who are even aware of the altered timeline those in Redcliffe? Shouldn't everyone's memory of events have been changed the moment that the Tevinter mages go back in time?

This goes into sci-fi tropes here. Because the Inquisitor went forward in time and then back in time to the exact moment she left, the only people who should really know what exactly happened are the Inquisitor and Dorian. They're the only two that got thrown out of time. Everyone else they meet in the altered time period would never exist since they changed the future. Technically, no one should be aware of the altered timeline except the two who were displaced. Sure, they can tell people when they get back, but generally everyone should only know what happened based on their personal accounts.

We also don't know how the mages came to occupy Redcliffe or if the mages had been welcomed into Redcliffe where they remained peacefully until the timeline was altered at which point the narrative got lost anyways.

Sure we do. I could have sworn there were people I talked to in Redcliffe that filled in this part of the story, especially if you freed the kid from the demon influence in DA:O, as he's still in Redcliffe and fills you in on a lot of what happened and why the mages are there. There is also conversation about the Arl, the change in Arls in the last 10 years and so on. Just talk to people...

Ultimately the mages seem to be innocent of any actual crime, the only crime that was committed in Redcliffe was poor storytelling.

Well, I will agree that I don't think the mages are as messed up as some people claim. Sure, they made some questionable decisions, but frankly, so have the templars. So does a good portion of your companions, as well, at various points. Good people make bad decisions.

I sided with the mages and worked with them as allies because I talked to a few and listened to them talk as much as I could, and got the distinct impression that they just didn't know what to do and where to go and were generally worried about the future. So, aside from Fiona being a total douche earlier on, I decided to give them a chance with freedom. Everyone deserves that.

[Kedrin]

From what I recall the mages agreed to ally with Tavinter effectively turning Redclif into an outpost which is now under Tavinter protection. It's not just two mages there are a lot of Tavinter Mages as guards that Leiliana's guards deal with during the anchor confrontation.

 

From the mages perspective (at least the ones stuck in Redcliff) there are no other options, they can die at the hands of the templars of serve 10 years and earn citizenship in Tavinter.

 

There is a scene that tells how they all arrived there as the only place that was offering some shelter for mages that are NOT rebles. All of the mages in Redclif are mages that did not chose to rebel, but went along with the disbanding of the circle. They were not interested in killing templars, just wanted a change from the concentration camps they were stuck in.

[DiamondUnicorn]

Varric approves making the mages allies. That's enough justification for me.

[Dave of Canada]

Varric approves making the mages allies. That's enough justification for me.

 

What he approves of depends on your Dragon Age 2 import.

[DiamondUnicorn]

What he approves of depends on your Dragon Age 2 import.

 

Really? Interesting. So parts of Varric's character development can depend entirely on the kind of person Hawke was. Cool. Does this depend on whether Hawke mostly allied with the mages or the templars throughout the game?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Ally...The mages were screwed by time magic, something which was previously thought to not be possible...

[KaiserShep]

I allied with them. My Inquisitor is more of the adventurous type anyway.

[Dave of Canada]

Really? Interesting. So parts of Varric's character development can depend entirely on the kind of person Hawke was. Cool. Does this depend on whether Hawke mostly allied with the mages or the templars throughout the game?

 

If you sided with Templar, he approves of conscripting the mages and recruiting the Templar. If you sided with mages, he approves of freeing the mages and disbanding the Templar.

[Ibn_Shisha]

That is the most impressive attempt to bend facts to defend the fact mages made a horrible, horrible decision.

Quite simply Fiona made a damn stupid decision cause as anyone who's beyond half wit would know that they were losing this war.

And because she is an uber ****** who instead of getting on her knees and begging the chantry to take them back instead chose to dig in and refused to yield.

Cue Tevinter.

Who she allowed to fester on sovereign Ferelden soil, a nation that had actually offered them refugee status.

I guess that's how mages repay favors, by allowing states enemies unto your front door and washing their hands of the more cuntish elements of your rebellion who went to wage war with the Templars amongst the mundane populous.

I had actually gone to Redcliffe to conscript the mages, but after finding out what stupidity they had gotten up to., I was like nope that ain't happening.

Did the Templars instead and by george that was awesome ****.

Hell the whole things is worth it simply for Ser Barris, whom later on the War Table ops shows ya what a true, noble Templar who uphold the tenets of his duty can be.

Good man ser, bravo.

As the effects of the time dilation effects? As per all time travels events the standard "timey-wimey" trope comes into play, thus allowing the party writing to play it anyway they wish without having to justify it.

Anyway,

Barris is awesome.  I skipped all kinds of loot rushing around trying to keep his Great Hall Status up.  And then, as punishment for being rude to Barris, I stuck Abernache with the Avvar chief.

 

Question - did you get the thing that says 'Promote Barris in the Throne Room' yet?  If yes, how did you do it?  I have no interact on the throne or anywhere around it right now.

[ArvinDulku]

Barris is awesome.  I skipped all kinds of loot rushing around trying to keep his Great Hall Status up.  And then, as punishment for being rude to Barris, I stuck Abernache with the Avvar chief.

 

Question - did you get the thing that says 'Promote Barris in the Throne Room' yet?  If yes, how did you do it?  I have no interact on the throne or anywhere around it right now.

 

Yeah, promoted him for the awsome badass mofo that he is.

 

I think you need to run a few of his war tables ops to qualify first, cause he does some awesome **** there.

[The Jackal]

I just want say, spoilers in title. For people who haven't played the game. They might not even know this is an option. I humbly request per the rules in this section to keep the thread title vague in order not to ruin it for people who haven't played the game. Such as "Mage Alliance: What did you pick" I already completed the game. It's about me. Just for those people who haven't.

[Ibn_Shisha]

Yeah, promoted him for the awsome badass mofo that he is.

 

I think you need to run a few of his war tables ops to qualify first, cause he does some awesome **** there.

I did, and I got the pop-up text about promoting him, but I can't seem to initiate that in throne room.

[Shelidon]

I had to arrest them after the second time the game crashed on picking the allying option. Which would not be that bad if it didn't mean killing Alexius all over again. Two times in a row. Him and all his damn rifts. So really I would like to know if I'll be given the option to free them after they have helped, as Dorian suggests, or even to go with the option of opening the Chantry to mages, as discussed with Vivienne. If not, I might go back and <sigh> try the whole thing again.

[Xeyska]

I did, and I got the pop-up text about promoting him, but I can't seem to initiate that in throne room.

 

You have to get a Judgement for the Throne, before you can promote Barris. Then it will activate for you.

[Ibn_Shisha]

You have to get a Judgement for the Throne, before you can promote Barris. Then it will activate for you.

That sucks.  I already judged Denam and the crazy Chasind.  Now I have to like, go do another story mission...

[ruthless_kk]

 Make a decision and stick with it.

 

Instead of trying to find out what happens if you pick A or B....just pick one and see how it plays out.  Cause that is how it works in life.  You dont know how things will turn out...so you make a decision and hope for the best.  My suggestion is stop trying to figure out how your decisions will affect the game.  Just make the best decision you can based on the info you have and then play it out.  You can always go back to a previous save and try it another way later if you really want....which is more than life offers.

 

Personally, I want to be pro mage but they make it so darn hard.  

Every time you turn around they are making bad decisions and turning into abominations.  Even the strongest of them, such as Orsino ( in DA2) couldnt withstand the temptation. I want to see them free but it is pretty clear that that would result in disaster. So I chose to conscript them.  I got some serious crap for that call from members of my team, but I still think it is the right thing to do.  I will have to deal with whatever the results of that decision are.

[rigron]

This is so true. Even in the next cut scene and if you talk to her in Haven's camp, she'd say she approves it. Why do we get "Cassandra greatly disapproved" for this choice? I suppose its a bug, please fix it Bioware. 

 

It is not a bug

 

Cassandra says she supports the fact that you made a decision when it has to be made. That does not conflict with the fact that she is against free mages and dissaproves you if you make them your allies giving them freedom. You can support with your acts (in this case, following you) someone decissions without actually agreeing on a personal level with them so the same applies here for Cassandra.

[DarthSliver]

I conscripted those mages into the Inquisition, I got a big fat Greatly Disapproval from Solas but oh well lol. 

 

 

But it would seem there are decisions you make that will effect all possible party members, I assume big decisions like the Mages one will be those decisions that will regardlessly even get approval or disapproval from members you are not using.