100 réponses à ce sujet

[JouhnCoat]

I personally clap my hands for bioware skill at turning the table. Meaning since DaO i was pro mage. Hated the rite of tranquility and wished the mages free. I even accepted the "ocasional" blood mages and priks i came across thinking hey just some of them not all. I was playing a cute dwarf female rogue at the time so Lelliana came naturaly as pick to romance. I was a bit disapointed she was not with me in awakening. Then finished the game with another female rogue simpatising with mages. again. and my jaw literaly droped at the end seeing Lelliana as an active hyrank seeker in the chantry. ( basicly her stupid chantry was more important the folowing my dwarf in awakening ). Also keep in mind almost all the chantry members in DA2 are really anoying. So as i started DA Inq i wanted a game where i F...up the chantry as much as i can. I even chose in the tapistry in Dragons Keep to defile the ashes just to spite the dam traitorous red head with her bloody bush story. So siding with mages and hating the chantry with a passion became rather personal RP wise. After all both games showed lots of abuse on that side. But then i did the mage story. In the prelude. After doing the quest, and watching SOMETHING ( spoiler free ), my opinion on the mater turned 180. That dam redhead made some choices who sudenly put all the disparate incidents my chars witnesed into a larger picture. I wanted the mages free before but now...da fk it seems 80% of the ones i encouter are just crazy priks. I mean my chars are extraordinary champions story wise so all the mages they encouter are not ordinary. and most of them do something stupid. Watching that thing in dungeon on that mission was the last straw. Bioware plan or no, I still simpatise with the mages but no longer trust them to cast magic misile at the darkness. Most are plain stupid lack discipline and make choices that make me strangle them. I still dont agree 1% with the Rite of Tranquility. But i wont consider freeing the mages since more inteligent chars then my own seem to think they are a good idea. Some considered Viviene a power hungry bich. But she makes it clear to me that she reached her position by charisma and pacience, not magic or blood magic. She took the time to get result contrary to most priks who pop a spell with idiotic result for a fast gain. And as most of my party agrees Kirkwall is not representative for mage templar war. Just a huge ****** convention. Dam you redhead....U shoudve stayed with my dwarf .

[GoldenGail3]

Allying. Even though I hate Fiona and her mages, I still ally with them.

[JouhnCoat]

Allying. Even though I hate Fiona and her mages, I still ally with them.

Carefull GoldenGail3. This is why is a huge difference betwen a preconception and a prejudice. " if i can suport this faction i will" vs " no matter what i will support this faction ". You are intitled to your own opinion but keep in mind the fact that most mages in DA series tend to do a lot of dumb crap. also. Training with a sword bow or dagers takes a good amount of time and dedication. at least 2 3 years to make a killing from it. Magic...well in all universes not just DA one is a lot easier. And while i dont aprove to tranquility bulshit i do admit mages for the most part lack DISCIPLINE. all sport or martial arts require this in order for you to be proficient and SURVIVE. at the core this is the ultimate goal. I dont hate mages. I love magic. but i admit this particular study often is perilous on its own from that lack of discipline. You say u hated Fiona still allied with them because ? they alowed slavers to gain a foothold, and their mistake casued at least 3 members of your inquisition to be raped, tortured and mentaly abused for at least a year. and YOU ACEPT and tolerate this ? 

 FUnny : the sexy redhead wants them to be free despite one mage trigered the templar /mage war, and murdered the Kirkwall Divine with lots of bystanders, more mages forced my had to pick them by alowing tevinter mages on Redcliff, another mage opened the breach and later had her captured and tortured, ...seriously she is way off the Game

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I tend to conscript either mages or Templars, but more often, If I need to ally for that character, I go Templar. Even when I play a mage, I can't justify allying with the rebel mages, even if my Inquisitor does think mages should be free.

 

1. They chose to rebel from every circle right after Anders blew up the Chantry - horrible timing if they wanted to succeed.

2. A mage did blow up the chantry.

4. At the time Quizzy has to choose, all he/ she knows for sure is that some sort of magic gone wrong gave him/her that mark - another mage mistake.

5. They sold out to Tevinter out of pure desperation. Last time there were desperate mages, people died and mages became abominations.

6. There is a massive hole, several of the actually, directly into the fade, dragging demons through in alarming numbers. ALL mages are at a greater risk of possession and, it's all too easy for them to find demons to bind as well. Even as a mage Quizzy, I can't guarantee I will not become possessed despite my efforts not to, I can't trust any mage to be strong enough.

 

Yes I need some of them and, I do want mages to be free ultimately but, now is not the time so, conscript and get Leliana named Divine since she wants mage freedom too and, hope that after this mess is over, she will be instrumental in giving mages freedom the right way.

 

Meta gaming, I know that works but, as my PC, at the time the choice is made, they don't know that.

[GoldenGail3]

Carefull GoldenGail3. This is why is a huge difference betwen a preconception and a prejudice. " if i can suport this faction i will" vs " no matter what i will support this faction ". You are intitled to your own opinion but keep in mind the fact that most mages in DA series tend to do a lot of dumb crap. also. Training with a sword bow or dagers takes a good amount of time and dedication. at least 2 3 years to make a killing from it. Magic...well in all universes not just DA one is a lot easier. And while i dont aprove to tranquility bulshit i do admit mages for the most part lack DISCIPLINE. all sport or martial arts require this in order for you to be proficient and SURVIVE. at the core this is the ultimate goal. I dont hate mages. I love magic. but i admit this particular study often is perilous on its own from that lack of discipline. You say u hated Fiona still allied with them because ? they alowed slavers to gain a foothold, and their mistake casued at least 3 members of your inquisition to be raped, tortured and mentaly abused for at least a year. and YOU ACEPT and tolerate this ? 
 FUnny : the sexy redhead wants them to be free despite one mage trigered the templar /mage war, and murdered the Kirkwall Divine with lots of bystanders, more mages forced my had to pick them by alowing tevinter mages on Redcliff, another mage opened the breach and later had her captured and tortured, ...seriously she is way off the Game

Uh huh. I only do it because everyone loves me when I ally with the Mages.

[lynroy]

Sweet mother necro!

[NaclynE]

I'm really conflicted about what to do with the mages after Redcliffe. 

 

On the one hand, I really want to make sure they're held responsible for their bad decisions and have some oversight. On the other hand, playing as a mage character I do want to be more pro-mage, and don't really want to see them to trade oppression by the Templar for oppression by the Inquisition. 

 

 

Can anyone tell me what the consequences of this choice is further into the game? Does it radically affect the fate of the mages, or is it just a few different lines of dialogue? 

 

I'll try to be spoiler free I guess (lol).

 

If you side with the mages the templars become the central ongoing enemy force here and there. Also some conversations regarding this may hurt or not hurt your relationships with people. You'll also occasionally open some mage oriented side quests here and there. Also depending on Alexius's fate he may give you side quests if kept alive.

 

If you side with the templars the mages become the central ongoing enemy force here and there. Also some conversations regarding this may hurt or not hurt your relationships with people. You'll also occasionally open some templar oriented side quests here and there. Also depending on the one evil templar guy fate he may give you side quests if kept alive.

[JosieRevisited]

No she doesn't.  She supports your choice that is not the same thing as approving of it.

 

Actually, I just played through this and she specifically says "I don't disapprove" or "I do not disapprove" - one of the two once you press her on her thoughts over how you handled the mission and get snippy with her for basically blaming you for all that's wrong in the world. That's not the same as "I support your decision but think you're an idiot" - go play it again. They are right; this is continuity weirdness with Cassandra. 

 

EDIT: Whoa - I didn't realize this was a necro. good gravy..

[Madfox11]

Strictly speaking, not disapproving is not the same as approving, but that is just nitpicking. I always found her comments a bit odd, regardless of her choice she sounds disapproving about it. I always blamed it on her mood at the time, fed up with both the templars and mages, she simply concludes there is no right sollution, just one less bad

[JosieRevisited]

Strictly speaking, not disapproving is not the same as approving, but that is just nitpicking. I always found her comments a bit odd, regardless of her choice she sounds disapproving about it. I always blamed it on her mood at the time, fed up with both the templars and mages, she simply concludes there is no right sollution, just one less bad

 

Strictly speaking, "I do not disapprove" is the exact opposite of "Cassandra disapproves". At the least, she is saying she is neutral on the matter but her approval rating still drops. Is it a big deal? Nah, you still have plenty of opportunity to improve your rating with her if you care to (which I didn't, **** Cassandra and her brooding, spoiled attitude still blaming everything on me). That doesn't mean we aren't going to point out inconsistencies in case BioWare might be listening. 

[Medhia_Nox]

Just did the mage quest for the first time... and deleted that playthrough (didn't have a save prior - stupid me).  I'll never ally or conscript them.  I'll always support the Templars (even as a mage).

 

Though I did laugh... if you bring Solas he says very plainly that the future is what happens when the Fade is ripped completely down and then, he tells you he wants to do that in Tresspasser.  What a tool.  

[JouhnCoat]

funny my self never considered joining the templars because the dam mages force my hand. i could help the templars but i will alow LEGAl ocupation of redcliff area by tevinter magistrates who are perfectly fine with slavery and hyer tier of blood magic. No matter the faction alowing those dumb fxxxs to settle is very stupid. mage templar conflict aside, in any game actualy slavers need to die. slow or quick but ....some have a laugh some get even some get killed some get paid.  altough i might do it pro bono.

[CoM Solaufein]

I've done both but I prefer to ally with them. Probably because most of the time my MC is a mage.

[sniper_arrow]

It's funny. I felt more satisfied with allying with the templars than with the mages.

[Gervaise]

I always find it rather amusing how Leliana reacts critically if you conscript the mages, bearing in mind how her future self felt about mages after enduring the consequences of their action.    The thing is Leliana is meant to be a good spy master so you would think she would have seen the sense in keeping the mages under close watch initially, bearing in mind there are still probably a lot of Venatori spies in their ranks.   That is always the justification I give for my decision: they joined with a hostile organisation of their own free will and are thus essentially prisoners of war, who incidentally are extremely well treated.  Fiona confirms that the reason the decision probably went in favour of joining  Tevinter was because there were actually enemy agents in their ranks but they had no way of knowing.    

 

Later some of them escape Skyhold and join up with a group of extremists who appear to be working on a similar explosive substance to that which was used by Anders.   By following them we are able to capture these dangerous people and prevent a tragedy.  

 

As a mage, I was in favour of greater freedom for mages but to me giving the rebel mages total autonomy immediately after defeating Alexius made no sense at all.   

 

I would also stress I felt the same about the Templars.   They were essentially leaderless and while Barris seemed a good sort, he had stood by while Lucius' henchman had punched a defenceless cleric and then he and others had tamely allowed themselves to be taken off the Therinfall instead of staying out in the field protecting people, which is what they had actually sworn to do when joining the order.    To me it seemed that the Templar order had already disbanded from its original purpose, so I was giving them a new organisation to serve with a proper chain of command.    After all the original Inquisition had become the Templar order, so I was just bringing full circle.    

[Treacherous J Slither]

I allied with the mages.

Everyone that joins my Inquisition does so of their own free will.

Why ally with the Templars anyway? They're a bunch of drug addicts ffs.

[JouhnCoat]

I allied with the mages.

Everyone that joins my Inquisition does so of their own free will.

Why ally with the Templars anyway? They're a bunch of drug addicts ffs.

so in real life if u lead some soldiers to rescue hostages in some remote desert vilage would you recruit anyone without making sure u can trust them ? i want the mages to be free but to be part of a society that society has to control you. dont like dont be in that society. if you are capable of lets say xman Kity powers to move through walls and cant be cuffed or shot or anything you would soon be either kiled or removed from the society. we all are free but at the same time we are made to answer for our actions and our impact in said society. Those mages alied with tevinter and led MY FK ing PARTY to be imprisoned for one fuking year. and they want to be free? just like that? when hell freezes maby. Until they prove they get to be supervised like the stupid children they proved to be.

[Asch Lavigne]

Personally I like conscripting the mages and allying with the Templars.

[Nimlowyn]

My canon Inquisitor allied with the mages. She didn't care about human politics at that time, she just wanted the breach closed. She believed the Inquisition would best have the mages' full power and cooperation as allies, and since Solas advised pouring more magic into the mark, that's what she wanted to do. At the time, he was the only one she trusted.

 

If I were playing self-inserts, I would have conscripted the mages or templars on a probationary basis. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

so in real life if u lead some soldiers to rescue hostages in some remote desert vilage would you recruit anyone without making sure u can trust them ? i want the mages to be free but to be part of a society that society has to control you. dont like dont be in that society. if you are capable of lets say xman Kity powers to move through walls and cant be cuffed or shot or anything you would soon be either kiled or removed from the society. we all are free but at the same time we are made to answer for our actions and our impact in said society. Those mages alied with tevinter and led MY FK ing PARTY to be imprisoned for one fuking year. and they want to be free? just like that? when hell freezes maby. Until they prove they get to be supervised like the stupid children they proved to be.

If I have the luxury of hand picking a team then I'm gonna go with people that I can trust to get the job done. As in they follow orders and have some experience. That's about as far as it goes. I trust people based on what I know of them and since I can't read minds I can only know but so much about a person and as a result I can only trust them but so much.

Mages can be a part of society just like Marvel mutants and other super powered people can be a part of society. Whether you can throw fireballs or walk through walls, you are still bound by the laws of the society you are a member of. If you choose to break these laws you will face the justice of this society.

A mage that chooses to break the law can be subdued by a mage that chooses to uphold the law. If Shadowcat ever went rogue, she can be subdued by someone who can counter her abilities like Professor X.

Imprisoning or killing someone simply because you fear their power is wrong. Imprisoning or killing someone because they have broken the law is just.

Allying with Tevinter isn't against any DA law that I'm aware of. A large foreign force occupying sovereign land however is. The rebel mages aren't responsible for that and should not be held accountable for it. Alexius and his Venatori are responsible. He is also responsible for the time travel disaster. The rebels had no part in that.

Of course the mages want to be free. Their imprisonment is unjust. I remember something Malcolm X had said that was very fitting. I'll try to get the exact quote later but it was something along the lines of "If I have a monkey on my back, I will use whatever means I deem necessary to get this monkey off my back. If you're not going to help me remove this monkey, then you can't dictate the means with which I choose to do it." Something like that anyway.

There's nothing wrong with having a system of control in place for mages that break laws and harm society. This control system should have mages in it. So when a mage acts up, another mage takes him down. Just like the X-Men take down The Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants.

You want to arrest people that have done no wrong? Go ahead. It's your game. Enjoy yourself.

[Cute Nug]

If I have the luxury of hand picking a team then I'm gonna go with people that I can trust to get the job done. As in they follow orders and have some experience. That's about as far as it goes. I trust people based on what I know of them and since I can't read minds I can only know but so much about a person and as a result I can only trust them but so much.

Mages can be a part of society just like Marvel mutants and other super powered people can be a part of society. Whether you can throw fireballs or walk through walls, you are still bound by the laws of the society you are a member of. If you choose to break these laws you will face the justice of this society.

A mage that chooses to break the law can be subdued by a mage that chooses to uphold the law. If Shadowcat ever went rogue, she can be subdued by someone who can counter her abilities like Professor X.

Imprisoning or killing someone simply because you fear their power is wrong. Imprisoning or killing someone because they have broken the law is just.

Allying with Tevinter isn't against any DA law that I'm aware of. A large foreign force occupying sovereign land however is. The rebel mages aren't responsible for that and should not be held accountable for it. Alexius and his Venatori are responsible. He is also responsible for the time travel disaster. The rebels had no part in that.

Of course the mages want to be free. Their imprisonment is unjust. I remember something Malcolm X had said that was very fitting. I'll try to get the exact quote later but it was something along the lines of "If I have a monkey on my back, I will use whatever means I deem necessary to get this monkey off my back. If you're not going to help me remove this monkey, then you can't dictate the means with which I choose to do it." Something like that anyway.

There's nothing wrong with having a system of control in place for mages that break laws and harm society. This control system should have mages in it. So when a mage acts up, another mage takes him down. Just like the X-Men take down The Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants.

You want to arrest people that have done no wrong? Go ahead. It's your game. Enjoy yourself.

 

The building with the ocularum proves to the Inquisition that the rebel mages are conscripting with an evil Tevinter group also guilty of banishing the rightful ruler of Redcliffe. The only part that is unclear is if the rebel mages are legitimately too stupid to realize they are joining an evil Tevinter cult which is hard to believe but they shouldn't be punished if they are truly that stupid.

 

It seems reasonable to have concerns about allying with a rebel faction that is currently at war with another group and willing to join an evil Tevinter group. At this point in the game it is unclear who the real enemies of Thedas are. If the conscription choice was for the duration of time needed to close the breech it would seem a reasonable choice being unclear of the true motivations of the rebel mages.

 

Allying with the rebel mages might be an easier choice if the rebel mages had helped at all to defeat Alexius and his evil Venatori.

 

To make sense of this poorly written (IMHO) scenario I meta-game that I would have voiced my concerns to Fiona and the other mages I met that they are mistakenly indentured to an evil Tevinter group on foreign soil and could leave under protection of the Inquistion as allies if they are truly not involved in the attack that created the breech and/or not fully jazzed about joining a clearly evil Tevinter group when offered another at least non-evil choice.

 

The game unfortunately doesn't allow for the rebel mages to help AT ALL in opposing an obviously evil Tevinter group. The rebel mages go from rebel enough to abandon centuries of chantry rules which is also their religion for many but they are oddly no longer rebel enough to question indenturing themselves to what is already a very suspicious Tevinter group.

 

It's easy to consider not trusting the rebel mages at this point in the game and making a choice to conscript them.

 

Since the rebel mages are so quick to become full evil Venatori if you go to the templars for help it just adds to the crappy DA game meta-knowledge that most mages you meet in-game when given any chance  will become evil blood mages, abominations, or Venatori. It makes DA progressively much less interesting for me when we primarily see mages that are quick to evil to meet cheap game mechanics of needing pointless mooks to fight.

 

Also, why were they rebel mages the only mages left in Thedas that could close the breech? Really derpy story writing. Would have been fun to get a group of Qunari and Vint mages to cooperate to close the breech instead.

 

If rebel mages are the only significant amount of mages left in Thedas does that mean the Circle of Magi and College of Enchanters is primarily made up of former evil Venatori? Are they looking for another evil darkspawn magister to follow?

[Treacherous J Slither]

The building with the ocularum proves to the Inquisition that the rebel mages are conscripting with an evil Tevinter group also guilty of banishing the rightful ruler of Redcliffe. The only part that is unclear is if the rebel mages are legitimately too stupid to realize they are joining an evil Tevinter cult which is hard to believe but they shouldn't be punished if they are truly that stupid.

It seems reasonable to have concerns about allying with a rebel faction that is currently at war with another group and willing to join an evil Tevinter group. At this point in the game it is unclear who the real enemies of Thedas are. If the conscription choice was for the duration of time needed to close the breech it would seem a reasonable choice being unclear of the true motivations of the rebel mages.

Allying with the rebel mages might be an easier choice if the rebel mages had helped at all to defeat Alexius and his evil Venatori.

To make sense of this poorly written (IMHO) scenario I meta-game that I would have voiced my concerns to Fiona and the other mages I met that they are mistakenly indentured to an evil Tevinter group on foreign soil and could leave under protection of the Inquistion as allies if they are truly not involved in the attack that created the breech and/or not fully jazzed about joining a clearly evil Tevinter group when offered another at least non-evil choice.

The game unfortunately doesn't allow for the rebel mages to help AT ALL in opposing an obviously evil Tevinter group. The rebel mages go from rebel enough to abandon centuries of chantry rules which is also their religion for many but they are oddly no longer rebel enough to question indenturing themselves to what is already a very suspicious Tevinter group.

It's easy to consider not trusting the rebel mages at this point in the game and making a choice to conscript them.

Since the rebel mages are so quick to become full evil Venatori if you go to the templars for help it just adds to the crappy DA game meta-knowledge that most mages you meet in-game when given any chance will become evil blood mages, abominations, or Venatori. It makes DA progressively much less interesting for me when we primarily see mages that are quick to evil to meet cheap game mechanics of needing pointless mooks to fight.

Also, why were they rebel mages the only mages left in Thedas that could close the breech? Really derpy story writing. Would have been fun to get a group of Qunari and Vint mages to cooperate to close the breech instead.

If rebel mages are the only significant amount of mages left in Thedas does that mean the Circle of Magi and College of Enchanters is primarily made up of former evil Venatori? Are they looking for another evil darkspawn magister to follow?

Are the rebels even aware of whatever dirty deeds Alexius and his people are guilty of? Seems to me that just about everyone is in the dark. Including Fiona. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong. Its been a while.

I agree with just about everything else in your post.

[sniper_arrow]

Are the rebels even aware of whatever dirty deeds Alexius and his people are guilty of? Seems to me that just about everyone is in the dark. Including Fiona. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong. Its been a while.

I agree with just about everything else in your post.

 

 

I think Fiona only found out about Alexius's plans when you meet them in the tavern in Redcliffe. 

[Ashagar]

My issue with allying with the rebel mages is their tendency to murder even other mages for being loyalists or trying to remain neutral which is what drove several of the other mage fraternities to throw in their lot with the loyalist fraternity to form the loyalist faction and drove a number of mages into hiding from both them and the templars.

 

There is also the fact if your a human mage they murdered your mentor and of course the fact that somehow they suposely didn't notice what happened to the tranquil or that there a literal building in the town they usurped from the arl of redcliff filled with their skulls.

 

Which of course brings me to another of their crimes, the betrayal of the hospitality given to them by the Ferelden crown and the Arl of Redcliff. In Pre-modern societies violations of hospitality was one of one of the worse possible crimes one could commit as either a host or a guest. A crime of the highest order against both the heavens and man, empires and cities have been destroyed for such things by men historically and supposedly by gods in myth and religious lore.  About the only way they could have committed a worse crime was murder the king, usurp his throne and then use his subjects as blood magic fuel.

[Cute Nug]

Are the rebels even aware of whatever dirty deeds Alexius and his people are guilty of? Seems to me that just about everyone is in the dark. Including Fiona. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong. Its been a while.

I agree with just about everything else in your post.

 

I don't recall anything in-game that gives evidence that Fiona knew Alexius was an agent for an evil Tevinter cult lead by a nefarious sounding elder one. I think she still desperately hopes they are truly agents of the Tevinter Imperium sent to save them. Although already rightfully mildly suspicious of their methods she hopes it was a better choice than waiting for the Templars to attack.

 

It is optional story progression that can make the rebel mages and Inquisition look stupid if you find the Redcliffe ocularum building or have already fought Venatori to recruit Iron Bull before this scene with Fiona and Alexius. I think it is unintentional poor Bioware story writing that they place a building in Redcliffe with a pile of murdered Tranquil skulls and it isn't addressed in the story but no game is perfect and they probably meant to do something more with it. Also trying to adapt a new open world game format to a story driven game can make some story lines look less polished.

 

I liked the In Hushed Whispers mission in some ways. I personally just wish the rebel mages weren't left looking stupid. I think the templars were handled better in their Champions of the Just mission. Some were bad and some were good and helped you. Since the Inquisition may have already been fighting Venatori and found the murdered tranquil in Redcliffe the rebel mages look stupid if these story holes aren't addressed. Might have been unintentional but it affects how I view them and Fiona.  

 

Choosing to go to the templars is even worse for the rebel mages because they go to the overdone story-line that most mages will be evil if given the chance by having them quickly join the darkspawn magister's evil Venatori army. 

 

Best to completely avoid the tranquil murder hut in Redcliffe and don't fight Venatori before In Hushed Whispers or the rebel mages look really derpy. Although they aren't as bad as the southern Thedas Derp Wardens at least. Just making them seem stupid or again quick to evil makes Thedas less interesting.

 

Anders would be thrilled to see the results of his work. He really deserved a cameo with Hawke and Varric to smack him and say, "Nice work Blondie!"