That is good to know. How soon into the story does the chatter begin, and do you know if it's possible tomchange the result once it begins?
Dunno if you know this, but if you don't do Leliana's quest at all, she can still become Divine.
A horrible one mind you who fails at negotiations. But still there.
Dunno if you know this, but if you don't do Leliana's quest at all, she can still become Divine.
A horrible one mind you who fails at negotiations. But still there.
Yep. You can even go the entire game without speaking to Viv and she could become the Divine. It's all based on your choices.
I wonder if doing their personal quests have any effect. I just started a second playthrough and this time I am determined not to get Vivienne, however I did pick up her quest with finding some tomes (the early Haven one for helping her restoring the Circle). Did tell her I thought the mages should be free like everyone else however, after which she equaled all mages with mass murderers - such a delightful human being ...not.
In my playtrough Vivienne became The Divine. I dont think she is a bad divine, but i dont like her personally and 
i love Cassandra's ideas better
Helped the mages, conscripted them. Also if you help the mages you get to judge the magister, i wonder if it affects anything.. i personally made him do the researches for the inquisition.
Never openly supported anyone in dialogs. Maximum that a could do is ask if thats what they really want.
When Chantry ambassador came, i said that i need both Cassandra and Leliana.
The others dialog options are kinda mixed, like i agree that mages need some sort of control, but not that extreme. That lead to both Viv and Cass approval points.
Saved Celene, let her exile Briala, Gaspard was executed.
Let the Wardens fight for the inquisition.
Said to Lelianna that we dont have to kill the woman, but she did it anyway. That kinda pissed me off actually, it was like she doesnt give a damn thing about me being her superior. Just like Sera, i dont like her for that too.
I dont remember if i did any related operation, but i did few operations for Vivienne and one of them MIGHT be exactly the one people are talking about. I am not sure.
Cassandra not romances, actually not romanced anyone.
Did personal quests for Vivienne and Cassandra.
Cassandra is inspired to restore the seekers and make them better than they were.
Gave Vivienne the real heart and after her boyfriend died said "well, ****".
In my first PT I got an unhardened Leliana as Divine.
1. Sided with the Mages and made them my allies.
2. When speaking about the Chantry I generally went with dialog that suggested it wasn't doing its job and needed some kind of reform. I did not fully commit to "mages should have freedom" in my dialogs, but I did suggest that things clearly were not working as they had been before.
3. I had no war table operations come up to support the Divine, but I also did not really commit to anyone until later in the game.
4. I discouraged Cassandra initially by suggesting she do what she wanted to do, and initially she did not want to be Divine. I agreed with Vivienne that Cassandra would make a good divine. I verbally pledged my support to Leliana, but this was an accident. I was intending to suggest that she could make a good Divine, but I did not know my choice would actually involve saying she would make a good Divine.
5. I sided with Celene during the Civil war, reconciled her with Briala and exiled Gaspard.
6. Encouraged Cassandra to reform the Seekers (and she commits to this in the epilogue party scene).
7. Leliana spared both the traitor in Haven and the chantry sister later in the game.
8. Leliana was told she was right to try and keep her scouts safe.
9. Wardens were invited to join the Inquisition.
Not sure if how your Inquisitor defines him/herself affects anything, but my Inquisitor did not say she was sent by Andraste and was very hesitant to accept the role as Herald.
I'm currently trying to install Vivienne as Divine on my present PT, so we'll see how that goes. I have allied with the Templars and agreed with Vivienne in all her opinions regarding the Circles, but I intend to side with Gaspard this time around so we'll see if that affects anything.
Who do you guys think Anders would want to be divine? I'm kinda basing my canon around him and mages in general.
Leliana who wants freedom for everyone.
Or Vivienne who wants freedom through law.
I don't know if the article referenced above was old and Bioware decided to scrap the idea- but most of the choices I made seem to be "pro-Leliana" choices. I did however get a war table option to support Cassandra, which I performed, and Cassandra was in fact elected divine. My choices were:I wonder if supporting Briala swings towards Leliana. I want to support her, but don't want Leliana as Divine. And I already allied with the mages. Hmm.
Well, I don't know what happened, but, even after I sided with mages, let them be free, told Cassandra she'd be a good Divine and told Leliana she'd also be an excellent choice, I still got the dialog option to suggest to Vivienne I would support her instead of the other two.
And on the War Table, I got the option to choose between the three.
So, I'm not sure why, but my alignments in the main quests mattered rigorously zero when having to decide who to support.
I don't know if this works for everyone, but there it is.
Dunno if you know this, but if you don't do Leliana's quest at all, she can still become Divine.
A horrible one mind you who fails at negotiations. But still there.
I conscripted both the mages and the Wardens. I saved Celene and made all three of them work together. I hardened Leliana. When the Chantry delegation asked my opinion, I told them I hadn't decided who I was backing yet. The only companion I ever talked to about being Divine was Cass, and I honestly wanted her. Leliana scared me and I just didn't like Viv so I more or less ignored her after a few early convos. I had NO war table ops at all.
I got Vivienne.
Huh?!
The only thing I can think of that I did to start down that road was agree with her early on that it might be good for mages to be in the Chantry, but I agreed with Cass on her views as well and talked with her about them more often.
Maybe mine was bugged?
Was this hardened or softened Leliana? It sounded like from the descriptions in the OP that softened Leliana was the "best" choice? Hardened Leliana sounds like a murdering psychopath tyrant that is the exact opposite of what divine should be, but it sounds like softened Leliana at least somewhat succeeds in her original vision (uniting races, freeing mages)?
I'd really like to know. Because if both Lelianas suck that kind of leaves Cassandra as the best choice and I didn't feel she brought enough reform in my epilogue.
No, a softened Leliana makes the best Divine imo. She opens the Chantry to other races. If you side with the mages she frees them by disbanding the circles. They in turn form a College of Enchanters with the goal of using magic to serve the other races of Thedas. And she unites the sects that rise against her back into the Chantry via peaceful means. If you sided with the Templars, she frees them to decide to go through Lyrium withdrawl so they can become Seekers under the command of Lord Seeker Cassandra, and a new Seeker order is formed with the goal providing justice for all the races of Thedas.
Was this hardened or softened Leliana? It sounded like from the descriptions in the OP that softened Leliana was the "best" choice? Hardened Leliana sounds like a murdering psychopath tyrant that is the exact opposite of what divine should be, but it sounds like softened Leliana at least somewhat succeeds in her original vision (g races, freeing mages)?
I'd really like to know. Because if both Lelianas suck that kind of leaves Cassandra as the best choice and I didn't feel she brought enough reform in my epilogue.
No, a softened Leliana makes the best Divine imo. She opens the Chantry to other races. If you side with the mages she frees them by disbanding the circles. They in turn form a College of Enchanters with the goal of using magic to serve the other races of Thedas. And she unites the sects that rise against her back into the Chantry via peaceful means. If you sided with the Templars, she frees them to decide to go through Lyrium withdrawl so they can become Seekers under the command of Lord Seeker Cassandra, and a new Seeker order is formed with the goal providing justice for all the races of Thedas.
Thank you for this- do you know if Leliana can stay "soft" if you told her to kill the traitor at Haven? I wasn't really thinking that would harden her because it seems so minor. It seems like the big hardening factor is killing the chantry sister.
Unfortunately, if you didn't talk her out of killing the traitor she will be hardened. It seems terribly naive to leave him alive, and I actually agree that he should be killed, but if you want a soften Leliana you have to convince her to spare him.
Thank you for this- do you know if Leliana can stay "soft" if you told her to kill the traitor at Haven? I wasn't really thinking that would harden her because it seems so minor. It seems like the big hardening factor is killing the chantry sister.
If you don't both tell her to spare the traitor AND tell her she did the right thing by withdrawing her scouts, she'll kill Sister Natalie with or without your permission.
Well, I don't know what happened, but, even after I sided with mages, let them be free, told Cassandra she'd be a good Divine and told Leliana she'd also be an excellent choice, I still got the dialog option to suggest to Vivienne I would support her instead of the other two.
And on the War Table, I got the option to choose between the three.
So, I'm not sure why, but my alignments in the main quests mattered rigorously zero when having to decide who to support.
I don't know if this works for everyone, but there it is.
Being able to support someone for Divine through war table ops or dialogue isn't conditional on your choices throughout the game. You can do everything that puts Leliana on the throne, and throw your support to Cass and Leliana will still be chosen. Throwing support does very little in swaying the vote, as confirmed by David Gaider.
Unfortunately, if you didn't talk her out of killing the traitor she will be hardened. It seems terribly naive to leave him alive, and I actually agree that he should be killed, but if you want a soften Leliana you have to convince her to spare him.
Cass makes a good Divine too if you chose Templars. Her epilogue is also a peaceful one.
I figured making Cass a divine breaks romance, the game hints at it a lot.
How is it for making her rebuilding seekers? Does the game give you sad scenes and/or hints either?
Cass makes a good Divine too if you chose Templars. Her epilogue is also a peaceful one.
I sided with the mages, so the epilogue I got for mages with Divine Cassandra hinted at a brewing mage civil war between the Circle and the College.
Really not happy with that, so I'm considering replaying and siding with the Templars. What are the epilogue slides for Templars like with Divine Cassandra?
I figured making Cass a divine breaks romance, the game hints at it a lot.
How is it for making her rebuilding seekers? Does the game give you sad scenes and/or hints either?
She only breaks up with you if she becomes Divine. If she rebuilds the seekers she still stays with you, just leaves after a while to rebuild them. If she doesn't rebuild the seekers, she just stays with the inquisition.
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