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[Jaron Oberyn]

Yeah, and then she's actually happy, for once.She lets go of hate and embraces love.

 

This might have A LOT to do with becoming Divine.

 

I don't think so, as she can become both a hardened divine and softened divine, both of which take two vastly different approaches to unifying the chantry. 

This is so frustrating. The guide is absolutely no help, and with the way I am, if my romanced Cass leaves without a damn thing I can do about it, I will be more disappointed than with the original ME3 ending.... ugh.

Two questions; Can anyone give me an idea of the feeling of Viv as Divine? I mean, does it seem good, even of it is just a reversion back to the former balance? Also, anyone have any good suggestions to get her the position? I am trying to dissuade Cass and Leliana as I blatantly want them availabe for Inquiz and Warden romances.

 

My post on the top of page 3 will get you to be able to romance Cassandra without her becoming divine. You can also choose whether or not you want her to reform the seekers (she eventually leaves) or leave them in the past. (she stays with the inquisition).

 

Viv is basically status quo. Same old chantry. I'm on my third playthrough now where I will attempt to find out what you need to do in order to get Viv on the throne. So far I've successfully gotten both Leliana and Cassandra through intentional decisions throughout the game. I'll post here when I'm done with my Viv attempt. 

 

SE JN list out your current milestone decisions, and how you've expressed your character's position on the chantry and to which companions.

 

Honestly I believe there is a point beyond repair where there is very little one can do to change it as I feel a lot of the important dialogue happen early-mid game + companion personal quests. Plus the milestone decisions that represent reform,rebuild or status quo may play a part. But the factor to where one can influence enough to change the likelyhood at any time (War room operations) completely depends on where and how far you stand on neutrality, reform, rebuild or status quo.

 

Also, Vivienne's intentions regarding the chantry are basically freedom within laws (societal equality while placing necessary restrictions and safety nets) as if she becomes divine (a mage as divine in the chantry) I think it is a more subtle approach to mage equality and her views are to return the circles but obviously as better then they were before as safe havens and centers of opportunity for mages. Mainly, expressing an acceptance in those ideals early on through mid open her her up for a potential divine candidate I think. Such as the dialogue in haven where the player can express their want for mages in the chantry; to which she responds "a interesting proposition". I think that is a key point.

 

Again this is all speculation and only theory.

 

Refer to Jaron Oberyn for more help as he is much more versed in this than I am.

 

and has actually completed the game thus far . . .

 

Well said. At this point It's safe to say we know how to put either Cassandra or Leliana on the throne if we want. Hopefully when I'm done my current playthrough we can figure out how to put Viv, so that we can compose a proper guide. 

 

It must be more than just sparing/killing the traitor. I told her to spare the traitor back in Haven and she still went evil and refused to save the chantry sister on my orders. Probably a bunch of small dialogue choices adding up of which the traitor thing is just one, perhaps romancing her in Origins makes a difference too?

 

When I tried to make her spare the chantry sister she spouted a couple of reasons why not at me specifically referencing something I apparently said once I think. Sadly it looks like once she flips to the dark side you can't pull her back, as once I noticed her evil monologuing I was trying to pull her back from the edge for the rest of the game - but to no avail.

 

You sure you told her to spare him? The dialogue she references from you when she kills the chantry woman is when you told her to go ahead and kill the traitor. 

 

All you need to do is either dont interfere on anything an viv becomes divine, or throw your support to either cass or leli, whoever you support becomes divine

 

first play through - did nothing - Viv became divine

2nd play through - supported Cass via war table - Cass became divine

3rd play through - supported leli through war table - she became divine

 

Just my take on it tbh maybe there more to it but so far ive no really thought there was

 

Not that easy i'm afraid. Not everyone gets the war table missions, and it isn't clear if throwing support to a candidate lands them the role. (I supported Leliana when she asked me to in my first playthrough, yet Cassandra became divine). It seems to have more to do with the chantry views and the way you're setting up the world with your decisions. 

[Packmaster Jack]

It seems like Celene is the main thing for Leliana becoming Divine. I'm hearing it in the Cassandra thread too, all the people who got Leliana as Divine had Celene alive. There were two who both apparently allied with the mages...except one had Celene, and that one got Leliana.

I had Celene killed and got Leliana.

 

Allied with and freed the mages,killed Celene and put Briala in control, spared the Wardens.

 

No missions supporting anyone.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

So...I got Vivi as Divine. Not sure what to make of it yet, as both Leliana's and Cassandra's visions are quite appealing (and I was hoping for Leliana to ascend).

 

-Conscripted Mages

 

-Got all 3 parties to work together in Civil War (ie. Celene remains empress). Oh, and F*** those Halla statues.

 

-Allowed the Wardens to Stay

 

-Told Chantry Mother that it is for Leliana and Cassandra to decide if they want to become divine.

 

-Romanced Cassandra. Told her she can what she feels best with regards to Seekers. Told her there are other ways to help the Chantry after her conversation with the Chantry Mother.

 

-Morrigan drank from Well

 

-Leliana unhardened. Told her in person that I would support her candidacy. No War Table missions for anyone.

 

 

Can't remember the specifics of the conversations with companions, though I remember that I was kinda leaning on the side of the Circles instead of Mage freedom. I do recall specifically during a convo with Vivi that mages should be involved within the Chantry hierarchy (to which she Greatly Approves)

 

I also recall that I was presented with the dialogue option (with the golden crown icon) to support Cassandra's candidacy when speaking to her after her convo with the Chantry Mother, but not with Leliana.

[Wuulfpack]

Excellent BellPeppers&Beef023!

Hey! Jaron Oberyn!

 

So does telling Cassandra to rebuild the Seekers also make your relationship end or does she just do it but stay with you?

[Jaron Oberyn]

Excellent BellPeppers&Beef023!

Hey! Jaron Oberyn!

 

So does telling Cassandra to rebuild the Seekers also make your relationship end or does she just do it but stay with you?

 

Nothing about it ending, but her rebuilding the seekers has her mentioning that she will be with the inquisition "for now" implying that she will have to leave them in order to rebuild the seekers. (This doesn't end the romance, which is important to note).

 

If you told her to forget about the seekers after that quest, and she doesn't become divine she stays with the inquisition.

[Margurka]

 

I got Leliana as Divine

 

1)  Mages were given freedom.

2)  Saved Celene and spared Gaspard/Briala

3)  Morrigan drank from the Well.

4)  Wardens were not disbanded.

5)  I talked to both Cassandra and Leliana about becoming Divine and said to both that they'd make a good choice.

6)  Didn't tell Cassandra to disband the Seekers.

7)  My character took most of the 'I don't believe in any gods/I'm not the Herald' dialog.

 

 

 

I think it would swing it towards Leliana.

 

 

The only different decision I made from this was imprisoning the mages and I got Vivienne as Divine.

[Jaron Oberyn]

^ Thing is, we're missing information from Jib on how he expressed his views on the chantry. So it isn't easy to draw comparisons with his submission yet. 

[Mecha Elf]

I got leiliana as the new divine for my 1st playthrough, i dont remember most of my decisions n stuff however ;/. All i remember is that shes starting all over and thats awesome in my opinion but shes really bloodthirsty when a person opposes her, which isnt really cool. 

[Wuulfpack]

Jaron Oberyn!

 

So I've conscripted the mages, have been supporting Vivienne and the status quo (had the mages in chantry dialogue) and now I've had Celene, Gaspard and Briala work together. . .

Very similar to BellPeppers&Beef023 thus far.

 

Now, I know I could just do his choice as well to be safe but at the point with talking to the chantry women should I indeed say it is up to Leliana and Cassandra or tell her I need them? Which would be better for supporting Vivienne in the long run do you think?

[Jaron Oberyn]

Jaron Oberyn!

 

So I've conscripted the mages, have been supporting Vivienne and the status quo (had the mages in chantry dialogue) and now I've had Celene, Gaspard and Briala work together. . .

Very similar to BellPeppers&Beef023 thus far.

 

Now, I know I could just do his choice as well to be safe but at the point with talking to the chantry women should I indeed say it is up to Leliana and Cassandra or tell her I need them? Which would be better for supporting Vivienne in the long run do you think?

 

Hmm. To be honest I don't know. I've only chosen the bottom two which were "I need them" and "no" (or something to that effect). I'm not sure how much your response in there factors in yet, if at all. As I'm going to be attempting to get vivienne this playthrough, I can pick whichever choice you do not so let me know which one you choose and I'll pick one of the other two. We can see if that affects it or not. I'm only in Haven right now, so I've got a long ways to go. 

[Storvacker]

First Play-through:

 

Who became your divine?

Hardened Leliana

 

Who did you side with mages/templars and under what condition. (Conscription, free)

Mages, Full Alliance

When speaking to companions regarding chantry, how did you respond? (i.e. Dorian, Vivienne) (i.e. chantry is fine, mages need to be free, chantry reformed)

Mages need to be free, Chantry should be changed, Mages in the Chantry

How did you treat the chantry ambassador who inquires about the next divine? (Complied, told them no, etc.)

Told her that it's up to Leliana and Cassandra

Did you do any of the war table operations to support a divine candidate?

No, didn't even see them pop up

Did you support a divine candidate through dialogue with them?

Leliana, did not support Cassandra

Who did you side with on the civil war?

Celene rules alone

Cassandra disband the seekers?

No, reforming them

Cassandra romanced?

No

Cutscene from Mother Giselle talking to Cassandra, or Leliana about becoming the next divine?

Yes, talking to Cassandra

Encouraged Leliana to kill traitor in Haven, thus hardening her or told her not to kill him?

Do not kill him, she still got hardened somehow though

Wardens not exiled

Morrigan drank from the well

Inquisitor unsure of whether or not he was the Herald of Andraste

 

Second Play-through: Who became your divine?

Cassandra

 

Who did you side with mages/templars and under what condition. (Conscription, free)

Templars, disbanded/conscription

When speaking to companions regarding chantry, how did you respond? (i.e. Dorian, Vivienne) (i.e. chantry is fine, mages need to be free, chantry reformed)

Did not like chantry

How did you treat the chantry ambassador who inquires about the next divine? (Complied, told them no, etc.)

Told her no

Did you do any of the war table operations to support a divine candidate?

No, did not even see them come up

Did you support a divine candidate through dialogue with them?

Yes, Leliana slightly, negative towards Cassandra becoming divine

Who did you side with on the civil war?

Celene with Briala (reunited in love)

Cassandra disband the seekers?

Yes

Cassandra romanced?

No

Cutscene from Mother Giselle talking to Cassandra, or Leliana about becoming the next divine?

Yes, talking to Cassandra

Encouraged Leliana to kill traitor in Haven, thus hardening her or told her not to kill him?

Did not intervene, so Leliana killed him

Exiled Wardens

Inquisitor drank from well

Inquisitor did not believe she was the Herald of Andraste

Even though I tried to get Leliana again on my second play through, I got Cassandra, but I'm kind of happy about it for differences' sake. This play through I'm going for Vivienne. Any tips? So far I have:

 

Who became your divine?

 

 

Who did you side with mages/templars and under what condition. (Conscription, free)

Mages, conscripted

When speaking to companions regarding chantry, how did you respond? (i.e. Dorian, Vivienne) (i.e. chantry is fine, mages need to be free, chantry reformed)

Told Vivienne we need mages in the chantry, need order restored, maybe some slight, small reforms

Encouraged Leliana to kill traitor in Haven, thus hardening her or told her not to kill him?

No

[Jaron Oberyn]

For your second playthrough, you said "did not like chantry" but there are two ways you can express that. Reform, or rebuild essentially. Also, how did you respond to Cassandra when she presents to you her ideal future for the chantry? That plays a big role in her becoming the divine I believe, as you can agree with what she'd want to do, or disagree. 

 

For vivienne, right now that's a bit of a mystery to us. The guide says "status quo" so I would imagine that means no reform or rebuilding, but exactly as it was. Conscription would be in unity with that line of thought, and pro circle talk I suppose. Try to avoid reform talk if you want Viv though, as that tends to lead to Cassandra. 

[AlphaDormante]

Ooh, science. Alright, here's my contribution.

 

Vivienne became divine:

 

• Sided with and conscripted templars in a full alliance


• Encouraged both Chantry & Circle reform, generally agreeing with Vivienne's opinions on both


• Turned away Chantry ambassador


• Did war table operation to support Vivienne as Divine


• Supported Cassandra as Divine in a conversation with Vivienne, but never encouraged Cass herself directly


• Celene alive, rules jointly with Gaspard and Briala


• Cassandra reformed Seekers


• Cassandra not romanced


• Conversed with Leliana about her becoming divine, told her I didn't support her


• Encouraged Leliana to kill the traitor

 

[MyreMylar]

 

 

You sure you told her to spare him? The dialogue she references from you when she kills the chantry woman is when you told her to go ahead and kill the traitor. 

 

 

Yeah certain, I remember it because there was a little argument over it with me putting my foot down. She also didn't mention killing the traitor later at that point where I asked her to spare the Chantry sister which it seems like she would have if I'd let her kill the first traitor. From reading other responses It seems like I'm not the only one that's had a hardened Leliana after sparing the first traitor.

 

I see someone else mentioned that you have to support Leliana pulling back her scouts after Haven... I think I did that but the conversation is much less memorable. I suspect it might be a result of a series of early dialogue choices with Leliana (perhaps like soldiers vs scouts in the initial climb to the breach) and other conversations about the Chantry and faith but at this point I don't really know. It could also be affected by choices on the war room map as some of those are pretty...aggressive. I was definitely trying to stop her being evil for about half the game but clearly something was locked in as it was all to no effect as she keeps ignoring your advice in a heart breaking fashion (which really echoes the dark future Leliana in the mage path and the way she murders the Magister's son against your will too).

[Storvacker]

For your second playthrough, you said "did not like chantry" but there are two ways you can express that. Reform, or rebuild essentially. Also, how did you respond to Cassandra when she presents to you her ideal future for the chantry? That plays a big role in her becoming the divine I believe, as you can agree with what she'd want to do, or disagree. 

 

For vivienne, right now that's a bit of a mystery to us. The guide says "status quo" so I would imagine that means no reform or rebuilding, but exactly as it was. Conscription would be in unity with that line of thought, and pro circle talk I suppose. Try to avoid reform talk if you want Viv though, as that tends to lead to Cassandra. 

I usually just expressed a general dislike for it. If I had to choose between reform and rebuild I picked rebuild but I had a there should be no chantry mentality. I told her that she was too idealistic for her future.

[Storvacker]

Yeah certain, I remember it because there was a little argument over it with me putting my foot down. She also didn't mention killing the traitor later at that point where I asked her to spare the Chantry sister which it seems like she would have if I'd let her kill the first traitor. From reading other responses It seems like I'm not the only one that's had a hardened Leliana after sparing the first traitor.

 

My theory is she gets hardened if you do any of: don't spare the traitor, tell her that she was wrong to pull her scouts back at Haven b/c they are soldiers and their lives don't matter, or don't tell her to spare the chantry sister (was her name Natalie?)

[Jaron Oberyn]

Yeah certain, I remember it because there was a little argument over it with me putting my foot down. She also didn't mention killing the traitor later at that point where I asked her to spare the Chantry sister which it seems like she would have if I'd let her kill the first traitor. From reading other responses It seems like I'm not the only one that's had a hardened Leliana after sparing the first traitor.

 

I see someone else mentioned that you have to support Leliana pulling back her scouts after Haven... I think I did that but the conversation is much less memorable. I suspect it might be a result of a series of early dialogue choices with Leliana (perhaps like soldiers vs scouts in the initial climb to the breach) and other conversations about the Chantry and faith but at this point I don't really know. It could also be affected by choices on the war room map as some of those are pretty...aggressive. I was definitely trying to stop her being evil for about half the game but clearly something was locked in as it was all to no effect as she keeps ignoring your advice in a heart breaking fashion (which really echoes the dark future Leliana in the mage path and the way she murders the Magister's son against your will too).

 

Perhaps it is bugged then, or there are other variables but I think it may be the former. 

 

I usually just expressed a general dislike for it. If I had to choose between reform and rebuild I picked rebuild but I had a there should be no chantry mentality. I told her that she was too idealistic for her future.

 

I think that dialogue choice actually supports her, if it's the "That's very idealistic" option if I recall correctly. So that may be why. 

[Finnn62]

I'm confused. I've gotten to the part of talking to Cassandra about being Divine right after the business in Orlais. I don't want to support her as divine, but I also don't want to get a lot of disapproval. I would like to support Leliana for Divine. Is there a way to go about that conversation with Cassandra tactfully? 

[Jaron Oberyn]

I don't think you lose approval. And if you do, it doesn't matter if you're worried about romance or anything. Plus, killing those targets in her sidequest gain her both a "greatly approves" and "approves" per kill, if you feel the need to bump up your approval with her. I romanced her and ended up making it where she didn't become divine or reform seekers, and I ended up killing 4/5 of those targets just to play it safe and all was well. 

[Finnn62]

I don't think you lose approval. And if you do, it doesn't matter if you're worried about romance or anything. Plus, killing those targets in her sidequest gain her both a "greatly approves" and "approves" per kill, if you feel the need to bump up your approval with her. I romanced her and ended up making it where she didn't become divine or reform seekers, and I ended up killing 4/5 of those targets just to play it safe and all was well. 

I know that If I say "the chantry has failed" it leads to a "greatly disapprove" and several other options seem to cause lesser disapproval. I already got the romance scene unlocked, but I don't want to accidentally break them up. Maybe, I'll just bite the bullet and make up for the disapproval afterwards.

[elaine9695]

It seems like Celene is the main thing for Leliana becoming Divine. I'm hearing it in the Cassandra thread too, all the people who got Leliana as Divine had Celene alive. There were two who both apparently allied with the mages...except one had Celene, and that one got Leliana.

 

I kept Celene alive, ws more adamant about making Leliana Divine and Cassandra still became Divine, which I decided I wanted to happen anayway but wasn't sure how to go about it.

[Wuulfpack]

Jaron Oberyn thanks for the response. 

 

I shall try "It is for them to decide", you can go ahead and try "I need them" or "No".

[Nayt Navare]

I don't think so, as she can become both a hardened divine and softened divine, both of which take two vastly different approaches to unifying the chantry. 

 
My post on the top of page 3 will get you to be able to romance Cassandra without her becoming divine. You can also choose whether or not you want her to reform the seekers (she eventually leaves) or leave them in the past. (she stays with the inquisition).
 
Viv is basically status quo. Same old chantry. I'm on my third playthrough now where I will attempt to find out what you need to do in order to get Viv on the throne. So far I've successfully gotten both Leliana and Cassandra through intentional decisions throughout the game. I'll post here when I'm done with my Viv attempt. 
 

 
Well said. At this point It's safe to say we know how to put either Cassandra or Leliana on the throne if we want. Hopefully when I'm done my current playthrough we can figure out how to put Viv, so that we can compose a proper guide. 
 

 
You sure you told her to spare him? The dialogue she references from you when she kills the chantry woman is when you told her to go ahead and kill the traitor. 
 

 
Not that easy i'm afraid. Not everyone gets the war table missions, and it isn't clear if throwing support to a candidate lands them the role. (I supported Leliana when she asked me to in my first playthrough, yet Cassandra became divine). It seems to have more to do with the chantry views and the way you're setting up the world with your decisions.

Wait, so Cass leaves to reform the Seekers? That's fine so long as my Inquiz can tag along...

Here is where I am at;

Cass romanced; I have supported her views, and given lip service to the maker, told her to reform the Seekers, I have the convo where I can tell her to leave the Chantry primed at my save.

Saved the templars, allied with them.

Can (likely) support Viv for Divine, as not sure if that procks up UNLESS I am uber mean to Cass about becoming Divine (will test being nice but urging Cass to stay, and seeing if I can still bring the convo up for Viv after, not sure of the two are related). I can confirm that, in the least, able to Op Table mission support Viv.

Softened Leliana, told her to leave the Chantry and concentrate on herself. Aka, and the Warden.

Been friendly with most, on friendship with Solas, Sera, Cass, Varric, Dorian and Cole. Took a heroic tone, support chantry and possible religious views.

United the three in orlais, they work together willingly, but can redo and blackmail.

[Aramintai]

Alright, here's my (rather unexpected) ending - Viviene as Divine:

• Played as faithful Andrasitan mage
• Conscripted mages
• Told Viviene that mages should return to their Circles after their job is done
• Told the Chantry ambassador that they couldn't have Cassandra or Leliana
• Told Cassandra that what she wants for the Chantry are admirable goals
• Romanced Cassandra
• Didn't support Cassandra as Divine
• Told Cassandra not to reform the Seekers
• Didn't allow Leliana to kill anyone on both occasions
• Supported Leliana as Divine
• No missions to support a candidate were completed (none appeared on the map)
• Did not exile Wardens
• Celene is alive (exposed Celene, Briala and Gaspard and made them all work for the Inquisition)
• Allowed\Did not allow Morrgian to drink from the well (had no effect on the outcome, was still Viviene)

[Nayt Navare]

Ooh, science. Alright, here's my contribution.
 
Vivienne became divine:
 

• Sided with and conscripted templars in a full alliance
• Encouraged both Chantry & Circle reform, generally agreeing with Vivienne's opinions on both
• Turned away Chantry ambassador
• Did war table operation to support Vivienne as Divine
• Supported Cassandra as Divine in a conversation with Vivienne, but never encouraged Cass herself directly
• Celene alive, rules jointly with Gaspard and Briala
• Cassandra reformed Seekers
• Cassandra not romanced
• Conversed with Leliana about her becoming divine, told her I didn't support her
• Encouraged Leliana to kill the traitor

this gives me hope. Other than a few details, it is really close to my playthrough, and it has the outcome that I wish.