234 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

It seems that no matter which person gets the throne, Orlais will have a succession crisis looming on the horizon. Of course, so will Nevarra and Fereldan. What an interesting coincidence.

[Colonelkillabee]

I like to think that your forces are just simply that badass after carrying the faith in you and the maker's will. They have a living saint commanding them! Nothing could dampen my spirits if I were in their shoes. Dying would be an honor.

 

One thing's for certain, the Inquisition's soldiers are going down in history as the most badass fighters of the Dragon Age.

[Reznore57]

The wardens have always been shown as "weak" in current Thedas.

In DAO , Duncan is forced to use the right of conscription , there's not much wardens in Ferelden.

Then when everything goes sour , the wardens are stuck at the orlesian/Ferelden border , and can't do anything but sit on their hand and wait until Ferelden is destroyed.

The legendary order who used to swoop in with griffons to save the day is now reduced to two wardens having to walk all over Ferelden and gain favors with different factions , and then being able to use old treatied (chances are now no one would sign those papers).

 

Spoiler

Besides from what I saw the wardens are quite divided and have trouble communicating with each others , (Only wardens in the south were having trouble with the calling in DAI , in the north they were fine , something some people are aware of....Aveline taking warden Carver to the north , but the Orlesians/Ferelden wardens think the whole order is dying and they start to crap their pants)

 

In theory the wardens should have known about Cory before everyone else , he's darkspawn .

The wardens were after him , the wardens were also looking in the red lyrium thaig , also Cory managed to enslave a couple of wardens...and Clarel is like "What Corypheus is dead ........"

/slow clap for the wardens.

The current warden order is a mess , the glory days are long gone at this point .

[LOLandStuff]

You means the same Wardens who were killing each other because some refused to be sacrificed?

[Chari]

Meh. An inconsistency and a need to make the inquisition look badass. Nothing less and nothing more

[X Equestris]

Yeah, this is definitely an inconsistency.  The Wardens are not just run-of-the-mill troops.  A few Wardens in Soldier's Peak managed to fend off the entire Ferelden army for a time.  A handful managed to cut through the deep roads in The Calling like a knife through butter.  Every recruit who goes through The Joining in Awakening is a certified badass.  Up to this point in the series we've never met a Warden who wouldn't look at any other ten soldiers and laugh.

They held Soldier's Peak because it was a mountain fortress with only one way up. Do you have any idea how hard it is to take that sort of fortification? The ones in The Calling are fighting darkspawn, so of course they do very well. And are we really going to throw companions into this? Any companion character in Dragon Age is worth quite a few enemies. The ones in Awakening are hardly alone in that.

[Sifr]

While the Wardens are a bunch of badass warriors, they're not the physical gods that they're often depicted as.

 

In Awakening, you had an entire contingent of Wardens wiped out before you even got to Vigil's Keep, because they were unprepared for them and that these particular darkspawn were capable of independent thought, making them far more tactical and dangerous. This seems to be a particular problem for Wardens, as they've gotten used to fighting a mindless enemy who tend to use the same tactics and which they are specifically trained to fight.

 

When you stick them in a crumbling old fortress that's still probably not been properly fixed from the demon incursion in Asunder, then pit them against a human army who are well equipped, well trained and who aren't also busy fighting half their own team who've been taken over by demons, it's obvious that it's going to be far more of a level playing field. And that's how difficult they have it before you throw such martially capable people as the Inquisitor, Stroud/Alistair/Loghain and Hawke onto the field.

 

Alternatively, it's just conservation of Ninjitsu at work.

 

Alone, they're nigh-unstoppable. Together, they couldn't defend a post-office from old people on pension day.

[Colonelkillabee]

Someone should make a t-shirt.

 

"I took darkspawn blood in my mouth and all I got was this dick in the ass from the Inquisition. And this lousy t-shirt."

 

Lol they'll sing songs of that ass whooping for years. Embarrassing.

[Sifr]

No wonder they wanted to distance themselves from the Weisshaupt Wardens, those guys apparently live and breathe killing darkspawn...

 

The Orlesian Wardens were trounced, both sides in the Orlesian Civil War seemed to be easily taken down by just a few undead... Is it just me, or are we veering into the unfortunate and cliched stereotype that everyone in France Orlais is a Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey?

 

[crimzontearz]

It's Bioware style

Remember when ONE reaper capital ship TORE through the combined fleets of THREE races and v was taken down ONLY because Shepard got it's shields down by killing The Saren Reaper? Yet three years later we are fighting THOUSANDS of them and holding our own???
Meh....either that or the inquisition is just THAT awesome

[MuhidinSaid]

Yeah, their performance was underwhelming, but we've been exposed to the badassery of wardens like the hero of ferelden, loghain, duncan, alistair, sophia dryden, forgetting that nowadays, they are more or less the exception than the rule. We know wardens aren't invincible and are perfectly capable of underestimating their opponents and being overrun.

 

A few examples:

 

-Soldier's peak, a 100 wardens held off the army of ferelden in a mountain fortress, but their desperation caused them to summon demons in an attempt by their disgraced leader to seize the throne of ferelden(albeit to stop a tyrannical king), also, the weak social cohesion of the wardens pretty much makes them incapable of rallying against any non-darkspawn force, causing many wardens to leave even while the fortress was under siege.

 

-Vigil's keep, the wardens there are unprepared for the darkspawn attack and slaughtered down to the last defender, they're not used to dealing with intelligent darkspawn and prove unable to adapt to the situation.

 

-the disaster at ostagar, despite overwhelming odds, the wardens are unable to persuade King cailan to not fight on the front lines and wait for orlesian reinforcements(made up of chevaliers and veteran grey wardens), their carelessness causes almost the entire force of wardens in ferelden to be slaughtered.

 

-Consider the fact that the wardens accept almost anyone, especially criminals, thieves, and murderers. They generally tend to not be as disciplined as other military forces because of this, and another thing is that they will literally do anything to stop a blight, no matter what the cost. Including summoning demon armies.

 

-They tend to avoid getting involved in political conflicts, I see this as a weakness and a strength because it while it guarantees that they generally avoid the ire of other nations, they do nothing to stop wars of conquest or civil wars, outside of a blight they're kind of useless. 

 

-The original grey wardens were veterans of the first blight, humans, elves and dwarves who fought in countless battles, let's face it, the recruiting the standards have kinda slipped.

 

All of that being said, I was still kind of bummed that with the exception of Warden Commander Clarel, Stroud, and even Blackwall, that there aren't really any badass wardens in inquisition.

[TeraBat]

I think (or rather, really really hope) that this will be the focus of the next installment in the series. 
 
The Wardens once were awesome (just crawl over the rocks in Western Approach and see how many monuments there are to Wardens who fell in the Second Blight), but they absolutely cannot get their **** together in modern days. 

 

And in Inquisition

 

Spoiler

Not a single Warden at Adamant recognized Blackwall as an imposter. Clarel is apparently able to declare fellow Wardens as fugitives with impunity. Though they may have had good intentions with the demon army thing, the fact that they were so easily played is not going to make them any more popular. And at the end of the game, it's strongly hinted at that the Wardens are divided.

 

So my prediction for DA4 is that it will take place in Tevinter and the Anderfels, and that now that the mage/templar crisis has been largely resolved, the next giant fracture will be among the Grey Wardens. Probably as a result of what happened during Inquisition. 

[Sifr]

It's Bioware style

Remember when ONE reaper capital ship TORE through the combined fleets of THREE races and v was taken down ONLY because Shepard got it's shields down by killing The Saren Reaper? Yet three years later we are fighting THOUSANDS of them and holding our own???
Meh....either that or the inquisition is just THAT awesome

 

But in the later ME games, most ships have been outfitted with Thanix cannons, reverse-engineered from Sovereign. Before the galaxy was mostly technologically stagnant, whereas after the attack on the Citadal, everyone realised they needed to do some serious catch up. It's implied in ME2 and ME3 lot of the newer tech is either derived from stuff cannibalised from the wreckage of Sovereign or a byproduct of the technological boom that's going on.

 

As for fighting Reapers, it seems that most of the battles that were won against their ships are small-scale skirmishes, as we saw how easily the fleets at Earth and Arcturus were overwhelmed. When we hear that they're being held at bay, I think that's more about allied ground troops versus Reaper ground troops, rather than against the actual ships on the ground?

 

And as we saw by the end of ME3, despite all the fighting, the Reapers were still winning through sheer attrition alone.

 

The Wardens had no advantage in their fight at Adamant and were severely crippled already before the Inquisition even showed up at their door, that's part of why they agreed to that insane plan to scour the Deep Roads with their demon army.

[MuhidinSaid]

It's implied that the fake Calling interfered with the warden's abilities to sense darkspawn and each other, they're disoriented because of it.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine the Wardens in Anders will be happy with what happened at Adamant, I could see some sort of split/fracture between the wardens of Orlais and the northern kingdoms.

[EmissaryofLies]

They can't all have plot armor and a messiah narrative.

[Augustei]

Idk about you, but I had Orlesian Chevaliers among my troops and doubtless training them (Michel de Chevin, Remaches brother etc.) So I wouldn't exactly call them run of the mill

[crimzontearz]

But in the later ME games, most ships have been outfitted with Thanix cannons, reverse-engineered from Sovereign. Before the galaxy was mostly technologically stagnant, whereas after the attack on the Citadal, everyone realised they needed to do some serious catch up. It's implied in ME2 and ME3 lot of the newer tech is either derived from stuff cannibalised from the wreckage of Sovereign or a byproduct of the technological boom that's going on.

As for fighting Reapers, it seems that most of the battles that were won against their ships are small-scale skirmishes, as we saw how easily the fleets at Earth and Arcturus were overwhelmed. When we hear that they're being held at bay, I think that's more about allied ground troops versus Reaper ground troops, rather than against the actual ships on the ground?

And as we saw by the end of ME3, despite all the fighting, the Reapers were still winning through sheer attrition alone.

The Wardens had no advantage in their fight at Adamant and were severely crippled already before the Inquisition even showed up at their door, that's part of why they agreed to that insane plan to scour the Deep Roads with their demon army.

uhm...it did not look to me like ANY thanix cannon was fired in the whole if ME3 minus Omega...

The reapers were made, correctly, to seem like a nearly divine force....had to be downgraded in ME3 for obvious reasons

Perhaps this happened to the wardens too


That said tho they may just be outshined by the awesomeness of the inquisition....


They DO have the coolest looking armors

[Above Good and Evil]

The main draw of the Wardens are that they can sense Darkspawn, which is useless in a fight against a human army. Likewise, why would you expect EVERY Warden to be a nigh-unkillable badass? Barring Stroud, the HOF, Alistair, Loghain and the Awakening Wardens are playable characters so of course they can take on mobs while NPC's don't have that luxury. Also, the Wardens don't always recruit the best of the best: Alistair was a rookie Templar, Daveth and Duncan were recruited as cutpurses, and Jory due to winning a formal tournament. Hell the dalish origin as well since you were mostly recruited for your sake to cure the blight inside your body. 

This isn't even taking in the factor of surprise (I highly doubt they were expecting an army to bear down on their fortress), panic, and infighting among the Wardens who are questioning this plan. Also, the Inquisition's troops are no raw recruits - Cullen mentions frequently about training and a bulk of the army are made up of Templars, Mages and whatnot. One has to remember that the Wardens are used to fighting Darkspawn, beings that until recent years were completely mindless and they could sense from a fair distance away. Riordan even points it out when you suggest the Gray Warden's martial training as being the reason they're the only one who can take out the Archdemon: He replies that if that were the case any sufficiently skilled warrior would suffice. 

Besides, I doubt many Wardens recruits are actually that badass; most likely they're like you and start at level 1, but unlike you they don't have an entire game to level grind on. Its pretty rare for someone to willingly become a Gray Warden and the best warriors probably serve nobles or have decent positions, whose bosses would be very pissed off if you kept conscripting them. 

[SgtSteel91]

So my prediction for DA4 is that it will take place in Tevinter and the Anderfels, and that now that the mage/templar crisis has been largely resolved, the next giant fracture will be among the Grey Wardens. Probably as a result of what happened during Inquisition. 

 

I hope so. Like Varric said, I'm tired of Mages and Templars.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Wardens’ are great in the vanguard, but holding a decrepit fortress against an army of superior numbers, who have information on the infrastructure, isn’t a fight anyone can win.
 
Imagine Helms Deep if all the heroes were busy summoning demons, and Saruman kicked in the front door.

[fizzypop]

There are dumb people in any organized organization (har har). They were frightened that they were dying all at once which honestly should have told them they were a bunch of idiots because they know the calling doesn't work that way. Still. People got influenced by a dark spawn who has a crazy powerful orb. We know people in Thedas aren't that smart especially with everyone always telling the heroes how wrong they are and the heroes are always right. Power + mass hysteria. Perfect recipe for people acting stupid. Not hard to understand. People are still people. It just sucks to see what we thought was a powerful force come down to their knees. As players we can only rejoice that our warden wasn't that dumb.

[Wolfen09]

we know the wardens are very small in number, some nations only having dozens at a time.  Hell, weisshaupt only had 1000 or so back in origins....  If we assume that the orlesian wardens number say 500, im pretty sure the inquisition has at least triple that number, combined with an overwhelming tactical advantage spells imminent death.

[TeraBat]

I hope so. Like Varric said, I'm tired of Mages and Templars.

 

I also absolutely adore the doomed romanticism of the Grey Wardens (Blackwall was my first romance). I would love a game which focused on the order, where you got to learn it's history, interact with a bunch of Wardens, etc. I wouldn't even have to play a Warden (though that would be a bonus!), I'd be happy just hanging out with a bunch of Wardens. 

[b09boy]

They held Soldier's Peak because it was a mountain fortress with only one way up. Do you have any idea how hard it is to take that sort of fortification? The ones in The Calling are fighting darkspawn, so of course they do very well. And are we really going to throw companions into this? Any companion character in Dragon Age is worth quite a few enemies. The ones in Awakening are hardly alone in that.

 

So 100 Wardens held off a nation's army only because a fortification.  Nevermind any personal strength they might have or any need they would have to personally hold choke points no matter the fortification.  And it's only darkspawn, right?  Nevermind they are vicious creatures which destroyed one kingdom and brought the world to its knees multiple times and are supposed to be some of the most frightening things anyone anywhere has seen, they're not too tough, right?  And yeah, we're going to bring companions into this, because they are the examples we have.  This is the first time we've seen Wardens who are not extremely strong.  Someone brought up Alistair, Davos and Jory as well.  Alistair wasn't the strongest templar, but he did very well in the tournament they held prior to his recruitment and was one of the greenest recruits present.  Jory won his tournament in Highever, one of the largest cities in Ferelden.  Davos was quick enough to pickpocket Duncan, himself a former pickpocket.  Wardens are selected from among the best, must survive trial by combat against the single most aggressive thing in the lore, and do nothing but fight from then on.  So yeah, there is some inconsistency when you've got Grey Wardens falling one-on-one to some nameless mooks you send over a ladder.

[Frybread76]

Meh. An inconsistency and a need to make the inquisition look badass. Nothing less and nothing more

 

Yes, sometimes inconsistencies are necessary to make a scene or story work.  As far as the siege of Adamant, I took it as the Inquisition greatly outnumbering the Wardens, who were already weakened by doubt, fear and infighting.