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[Willowhugger]

Is it just me or did the Grey Wardens come off as not being nearly as impressive as we've (Or at least me) been lead to believe. 

Obviously not all of the recruits would have come from a martial, or otherwise powerful, background, but still I would think that their training, equipment and experience against the darkspawn would at the very least make them equal to the Inquisitions' troops. 

The scene I'm referring to is the siege of Adamant where the wardens are shown as, quite frankly, getting their behinds handed to them. I would have thought that the legendary killers of darkspawn would be able to match run-of-the-mill infantry. 

Kinda seems like Bioware has taken a disliking to the Grey Wardens since Origins. Almost as if they've gone all HBO on us, I mean can we please not have them be complete pansies?

 

The Grey Wardens are the Night's Watch.

 

They have a long and illustrious career.

 

They're also an army of thieves, harlots, and pick pockets.

 

The Inquisition?

The Inquisition is a professional military of Templars, Mages, and religious fanatics possibly backed up by the most powerful nations on Earth.

 

At best, the Grey Wardens are an army of battle-hardened veterans against the Darkspawn.

 

But quantity has a quality all its own.

 

For once, numbers are on the PC's side.

Edit:

It's also important to remember either the Templars or Circle are there helping kick the Grey Wardens' ass,

[LilyasAvalon]

4. I honestly think, and this is just speculation, but most of the wardens who are worth anything saw the writing on the wall and aren't there. Loghain, the Warden, Stroud, etc. I think we're mostly facing the ones who are weak enough to give in to fear.

 

Still don't think any decent warden worth their salt was there. Where was Nate? Ogrhen? Sigrun? (Velanna doesn't count, she goes missing apparently)

 

The Warden-Commander of Fereldan probably sent them away to the Anderfels for their safety.

[Colonelkillabee]

It's also important to remember either the Templars or Circle are there helping kick the Grey Wardens' ass,

All templars fight are squishy mages like a bunch of bullies and the occasional demon. I still have a hard time believing these dudes are great warriors. It's like policemen vs soldiers.

[Colonelkillabee]

Squishy mages that can shoot fireballs and freeze the ground. Templars are prepared to fight Blood Mages whose spells can't be canceled since it doesn't come from the Fade.

And that doesn't prepare anyone to fight real fighters with strength, tenacity and steel. I know that if you can dodge a blade, you can dodge a ball... a fireball, lol, but unfortunately for them, warriors don't throw their swords.

 

All you have to do to kill a mage is get close. Warriors WANT you close. Whatcha gonna do then, Mr. White Knight? I fight back.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah, this is definitely an inconsistency.  The Wardens are not just run-of-the-mill troops.  A few Wardens in Soldier's Peak managed to fend off the entire Ferelden army for a time.  A handful managed to cut through the deep roads in The Calling like a knife through butter.  Every recruit who goes through The Joining in Awakening is a certified badass.  Up to this point in the series we've never met a Warden who wouldn't look at any other ten soldiers and laugh.

 

You realize you're picking different contexts of different people from different eras, no?

 

A 'few' (question mark of how many) managed to hold off some (hardly the entire) army for a time (before losing) because they had the advantages of a highly defensible position, on a mountain where numbers mattered less, after partaking in a civil war (which would have weakened their foes and strengthened their own resource pool for a time).

 

Deep Roads have always been hit and miss, as tough as the plot demands. Bartrand's expedition likewise cuts deep into the Deep Roads, with no Warden support.

 

In Awakening every potential Warden who goes through the Joining is a companion character. Bioware companions are always exceptional, and the player was already head-hunting for exceptional people to be the first new wardens.

 

 

A good reason we'd never met any non-exceptional wardens was because the vast majority of the Wardens we did meet were exceptional, even for other Wardens- companion characters or primary protagonists. We had so very little 'normal' Wardens to get any sense of.

 

In terms of the lore, the Wardens are only as good as the stock they recruit from- in many cases convicts and desperate people, rather than highly-trained knights or elites with pre-developed skills. The Wardens fight more (Darkspawn) than most groups, which helps with the experienced badass quota, but that's hardly all they do or are. The only unique advantage of the Wardens is that the Taint makes them resistant to the Blight and helps them sense Darkspawn: against everything else, they are only as capable as sometimes experienced warriors.

 

The Wardens get a reputation for being among some of the greatest warriors in Thedas because ('A') they fight regularly, and ('B') they sometimes recruit the greatest warriors of Thedas into their ranks. B is not a guarantee, and A applies to many other forces in Thedas which fight alot (Qunari and their minor war with Tevinter, Templars and their apostates and demons, Chevaliers and their professional military education).

[Colonelkillabee]

You're selling them short though. Templars aren't the vanguards of legend like the Wardens, but they're hardly your average guardsman either. They're a Knightly Order. You think they sit around drinking lyrium all day during training?

Lol probably You're right though, I am selling them short for amusement, though my argument's more or less the same.

[Han Shot First]

Its worth pointing out also that even some of the most feared warriors in history lost battles, even at their height. The Wardens losing at Adamant doesn't necessarily challenge their status as some of the best (if not the best) warriors in all of Thedas. It's also possible that they could have been qualitatively superior to the Inquisition soldiers, and still lost.

[Jester]

Except it isn't a puppet state of the Inquisition. 

It is in the end of it though, at least in my playthrough.

Celene rules, Gaspard is dead and Briala is in hiding and plotting. Celene is fully relying on Inquisition's support, because without it she would quickly lose her position or even life. 

Exactly what I was hoping to achieve - I'm glad the game recognized that. I was slightly less pleased that the game didn't recognize who I wanted as a Divine, but at least I got the second most favourable option. 

 

 

And that doesn't prepare anyone to fight real fighters with strength, tenacity and steel. I know that if you can dodge a blade, you can dodge a ball... a fireball, lol, but unfortunately for them, warriors don't throw their swords.

 

All you have to do to kill a mage is get close. Warriors WANT you close. Whatcha gonna do then, Mr. White Knight? I fight back.

What are you even talking about? Templars made for the Chantry's army. They were the force that guaranteed the Chantry's domination in the civilized world. Every Templar was a highly trained warrior, an absolute elite. A regular soldier could not stand against a Templar. 

The only faction riviling their combat expertise are the Orlesian Chavaliers. 

[eternalshiva]

Fiona isn't scared of the calling because she had the blight removed from her in The Calling, if you read the book. She's not a Grey Warden anymore. Alistair / Loghain / Stroud are suffering under the strain of The Calling but they don't let the fear of death consume them like the wardens in Orlais, they leave to find a solution but they are still affected by the Calling (They clearly say it when you speak to them in the cave, unless you skipped all the dialogue, there's absolutely no way for you to miss it).

 

Grey Wardens here, this small faction, are not a military force, they are a rag tag band of conscripted criminals and volunteers that fight darkspawn force and care only to end blights; they will go to any means to end them. The Inquisior has a trained military force that tramples over other military forces. Grey Wardens were at Adamant to finish their rituals, not to outlast a siege in a fortress that was hundreds of years old and falling apart.

 

The warden's own warriors turned on the mages when they saw that they were being played by the Tevinter Magister and Clarel saw the light of things finally, but it was too late for the mages since they were possessed and being controlled by Cory.  They're weak in some aspects because of their fear or dying out before ending the future blights.  The Warden Keep was an established fortress set up to outlast a siege with a strictly trained Military version of The Grey Wardens and they had the equipement to fight their invaders.  

 

This mission was more of a "wtf r u doin' snap out of it - join me or get out" with a small group of wardens, not the whole order.

 

*hugs wardens*

[Colonelkillabee]

What are you even talking about? Templars made for the Chantry's army. They were the force that guaranteed the Chantry's domination in the civilized world. Every Templar was a highly trained warrior, an absolute elite. A regular soldier could not stand against a Templar. 

The only faction riviling their combat expertise are the Orlesian Chavaliers. 

Wardens are not regular soldiers, and being the chantry's army means little when they currently only fight squishy mages and a demon once in a while. It's simple really.

 

Saying they're this and they're that means little compared to what I see.

[Willowhugger]

All templars fight are squishy mages like a bunch of bullies and the occasional demon. I still have a hard time believing these dudes are great warriors. It's like policemen vs soldiers.

 

Templars are an elite class of trooper trained from more or less birth unless they join later in life.

 

They're JERKS.

 

But they're still incredible soldiers.

 

I say that as Mageneto.

 

Remember, if you side with the Templars during the Fifth Blight, they do pretty good damage to the Darkspawn themselves. Likewise, the Hinterlands Templars aren't exactly pushovers either.

[Willowhugger]

Wardens are not regular soldiers, and being the chantry's army means little when they currently only fight squishy mages and a demon once in a while. It's simple really.

 

Saying they're this and they're that means little compared to what I see.

 

I actually agree the Wardens should be ultimate badasses.

 

The average Warden being worth six times a normal soldier is a good thing to me.

 

The thing is, Soldier's Peak is a good example for how badass they are.

 

And remember, at Soldiers Peak they lost.

 

That was without an army of Squishy Human Artillery or Religious Fanatic armored warriors trained from birth fighting them.

[Colonelkillabee]

I actually agree the Wardens should be ultimate badasses.

 

The average Warden being worth six times a normal soldier is a good thing to me.

 

The thing is, Soldier's Peak is a good example for how badass they are.

 

And remember, at Soldiers Peak they lost.

 

That was without an army of Squishy Human Artillery or Religious Fanatic armored warriors trained from birth fighting them.

They lost yea, I'm not really up in arms about them losing. Just that in the cutscenes, they got their asses whooped so bad, that there's a ghost butt where the flesh once was.

 

Barely even an even fight. Just complete domination in the combat. Like they were slaying run of the mill darkspawn goons.

[RNDMstuff]

I was also very surprised how they depicted grey wardens in DAI. I had the impression almost everyone was like "oh that crazy bunch of wardens. not like we need them anymore"... I was listening and thinking to myself "had I known before, I'd take alistair and ran for orlais to eat pies and whatever.. or antiva better".

They are still badass in my books. But I guess their numbers were never too many to beat the heck out of inquisition.. And they are not feeling alright

[b09boy]

You realize you're picking different contexts of different people from different eras, no?

 

You realize I picked every example of a Grey Warden we have, right?

 

The rest of you post is mostly a set of excuses which don't take away from the very basic fact that Wardens are very good fighters by default.  They need to, at their most basic of tests, be able to survive multiple darkspawn, themselves stated to be more than capable of taking on multiple foes.  Others can talk about infighting and demoralization all they want, that still does not take away from the fact that 1) all of the Wardens we've seen prior to this point have been very powerful and 2) we see with our eyes Grey Wardens fall in this game, facing off against one oncoming, no-name throwaway soldier multiple times within the same scene, and getting cut down within a second without even lifting their blade.

[Colonelkillabee]

Religious fervor.

I need someodat next time I hit the sheets then if that's all it takes to beat a warden in close quarters, lol. The results would be astounding. Does it come as an energy drink? Pill?

[Colonelkillabee]

Well, I saw a screencap where Sera says that Solas yells out "ELVEN GLORY!" when he taps femelfquisitor. So it must work on some level. Must be the elven magics.

Lol someone told me about that. She asks if he does but I doubt it since he basically tells the elves to go **** themselves, lol.

[Dean_the_Young]

You realize I picked every example of a Grey Warden we have, right?

 

 

Yes- and most of the examples of Grey Wardens we have were non-representative and, gasp, companion characters.

 

 

 

 

The rest of you post is mostly a set of excuses which don't take away from the very basic fact that Wardens are very good fighters by default.  They need to, at their most basic of tests, be able to survive multiple darkspawn, themselves stated to be more than capable of taking on multiple foes. 

 

Eh, that's really unnecessary. Helpful and desired, but unnecessary. A Warden needs to benefit the cause, in whichever way. That way could be more from political benefits of making someone a Warden rather than their skill, or that could be from having recruits you must train up rather than already elite warriors (because recruiting elite warriors is costly, and the Wardens fortunes are always in decline after a Blight).

[Aren]

Is it just me or did the Grey Wardens come off as not being nearly as impressive as we've (Or at least me) been lead to believe. 

Obviously not all of the recruits would have come from a martial, or otherwise powerful, background, but still I would think that their training, equipment and experience against the darkspawn would at the very least make them equal to the Inquisitions' troops. 

The scene I'm referring to is the siege of Adamant where the wardens are shown as, quite frankly, getting their behinds handed to them. I would have thought that the legendary killers of darkspawn would be able to match run-of-the-mill infantry. 

Kinda seems like Bioware has taken a disliking to the Grey Wardens since Origins. Almost as if they've gone all HBO on us, I mean can we please not have them be complete pansies?

They are not impressive, wardens are meanly castless warrior, thief or desperate people saved thanks to the right of conscription, the HoF and Alistair or Loghain are obvious an exception only because they were main character during a game, but the wardens are not this elite warrior that many belive.

ONly few wardens of wheissaupt  rapresent the elite among the wardens.

The beressad are deadly warrior, or the most powerful among the crow of antiva  (not that fool of zevran) the crow use to train child to raise them as an assasin, Zevran is just joke of the crow.

[Willowhugger]

You realize I picked every example of a Grey Warden we have, right?

 

The rest of you post is mostly a set of excuses which don't take away from the very basic fact that Wardens are very good fighters by default.  They need to, at their most basic of tests, be able to survive multiple darkspawn, themselves stated to be more than capable of taking on multiple foes.  Others can talk about infighting and demoralization all they want, that still does not take away from the fact that 1) all of the Wardens we've seen prior to this point have been very powerful and 2) we see with our eyes Grey Wardens fall in this game, facing off against one oncoming, no-name throwaway soldier multiple times within the same scene, and getting cut down within a second without even lifting their blade.

 

Counterpoint:

 

We've also seen the Wardens get wiped out twice.

 

1. Vigil's Keep had a bunch of Wardens we never meet because they all get massacred before we arrive.

 

2. The Battle of Ostagar supposedly had a bunch of other Wardens than Duncan too.

Which we never see because they're dead.