Hey man, plenty of good people that make salat that aren't associated with those crazies.
Oh I know. Just joking, lol.
Though if we're being real, the Qur'an doesn't technically discourage it. Well, it does, but it's contradictory. But that's a conversation for another day, thread, forum.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Oh I know. Just joking, lol.
Though if we're being real, the Qur'an doesn't technically discourage it. Well, it does, but it's contradictory. But that's a conversation for another day, thread, forum.
Context. Both Moses and Muhammad were Generals in defensive wars. And avoiding bloodshed was always the preferable route.
Context. Both Moses and Muhammad were Generals in defensive wars. And avoiding bloodshed was always the preferable route.
That doesn't much matter really. Qur'an encourages you to pursue safety, sovereignty of the land, and wealth, which is promised to the people of Allah if they submit, which is what Islam is all about. The word coming from "Salema", submission, obedience, and also peace to be fair.
Problem is, the Qur'an puts emphasis on the idea that these things are given to a group of people, so it promises worldly rewards, but only if a group does as they're told. A lot of the people of Islam in this world lack safety, sovereignty of their land, and obviously wealth. The only conclusion is not enough of them are submitting. So in their anger of their situation, who do they turn to? Why not the infidels that the Qur'an say are the most wicked. After all, if you force them to convert, you're saving their soul, yes? Those who submit are delivered after all.
That's how a lot of these extremists think, and though this isn't how the majority of Muslims think, the extremists technically aren't wrong in their logic. It's the big flaw of Islam.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
We'll take this to the PMs to avoid trouble.
Yeah, let's compare SEALs to warriors that drink dragon blood mixed with orc blood mixed with blue magic powder. Let's compare ISIS to warriors that drink water with blue magic powder mixed in and people that can shoot lightning out of their hands. Try again buddy.
The point.
Your head.
The point.
Your head.
The point.
Was poorly devised.
One of the writers clarified on the hour late bit awhile ago. Can go look it up yourself or ask one of them about it. But yes, it was very much late.
On the point of Last Flight, the Wardens who didn't take the joining did so because they were experts within a field needed for research and they didn't want to risk killing them. They were an exception to the rule for a very specific purpose.
As to my last point, it rather stands. You seem to be under the impression that the forces are equal. Religious fervor can make people do things they wouldn't otherwise do, or can got large flocks to join a cause, but it doesn't make them particularly better at what they're doing. Religion didn't create the phenomenal supply lines in the crusades. It doesn't stop swords or bullets. It can make you blow yourself up, though.
They're veteran, you say? Isn't their lead scout someone they JUST picked up a bit before you got there? Yeeeeaaaaah...
For what's worth, in the Adamant battle there's two things the Wardens can't stop -- huge siege machines which the fortress wasn't built to stand against (but supposedly it still takes large alliance of forces and long time to crack it, we are simply shown the final moments when it actually, eventually does crack) and the protagonist clad in their Plot Armour, which is self explanatory.
When it comes to fighting the regular inquisition soldiers, a point could be made that until the protagonist personally shows up and does their thing the inquisition forces don't appear capable of actually pushing onto the walls. Now that's ofc because the writers are trying to make the player feel heroic with their usual devices, but that's another and 4th wall breaking story.
That's a good point as well. When you are running around Adamant there is a sidequest to save Inquisition soldiers that are in trouble. They're struggling against the Wardens.
That's a good point as well. When you are running around Adamant there is a sidequest to save Inquisition soldiers that are in trouble. They're struggling against the Wardens.
I thought it was because of the demons.
I thought it was because of the demons.
I thought so too.
I thought it was because of the demons.
Its against both. Also the demons were being used as a weapon by the Wardens in this case.
Any sizable army with the intent of crushing the Grey Wardens could ultimately do so, even if the Wardens made them work a bit harder for it. They're just not meant to fight the armies of any nations or rapidly growing organizations such as the Inquisition, only hordes of monsters, and even then it's primarily to get to the head of the horde so that one of them could take one for the team.
Any sizable army with the intent of crushing the Grey Wardens could ultimately do so, even if the Wardens made them work a bit harder for it. They're just not meant to fight the armies of any nations or rapidly growing organizations such as the Inquisition, only hordes of monsters, and even then it's primarily to get to the head of the horde so that one of them could take one for the team.
Also they are a fairly small organization. In all of Thedas there is only a couple thousand of them, and Orlais only had a few hundred. The military forces of any nation in Thedas could destroy their local chapters if they wanted to, just through sheer weight of numbers.
I do wonder though what gave this idea that Wardens are amazing fighters. I remember how alot of people thought it was weird that the inquisition could crush them so easily during the first trailer we saw.
Most of the Grey Wardens are criminals, they probably rarely wielded a sword before. Its not like the entire order is has young nobles who had sword training in their youth.
I do wonder though what gave this idea that Wardens are amazing fighters. I remember how alot of people thought it was weird that the inquisition could crush them so easily during the first trailer we saw.
Most of the Grey Wardens are criminals, they probably rarely wielded a sword before. Its not like the entire order is has young nobles who had sword training in their youth.
That's true of the Inquisition or any armed force in Thedas though.
They might not necessarily have criminals in the ranks, but the bulk of their manpower is coming from the peasants. They'd be equally as unskilled with a weapon. In that the Wardens might even have a slight edge, if those criminals are bandits or pirates and such.
That's true of the Inquisition or any armed force in Thedas though.
They might not necessarily have criminals in the ranks, but the bulk of their manpower is coming from the peasants. They'd be equally as unskilled with a weapon. In that the Wardens might even have a slight edge, if those criminals are bandits or pirates and such.
That's true as well.
I see it more of a plot armor than superior soldiers. Yes, the Inquisition far outnumbers the Wardens, but defending a fortress is far easier than attacking one, even with the help of catapults. The fortress should at the very least help the Wardens with some of the Inquisition forces who are also fighting in an unfamiliar territory compare to the Wardens. The Wardens also only recruit skilled warriors, even if their backgrounds aren't good, while the Inquisition forces, IMO, probably have a lot of everyday guys/gals who got inspired and picked up arms to follow their "Herald" to save the world. I don't think we know how long DAI is, but consider how big the threats of the Breach and Cory are and how the game said the Inquisition power grew rose really fast that there are concerns, I'm guessing the game should last about 1-2 years top. During that time frame, how long did those normal guys/gals have to trained until we attacked Adamant considering we kinda started over after Haven and the reconstruction of Skyhold? Yet somehow, the Wardens got easily crushed by the Inquisition soldiers.The Inquisition forces are superior to those of the Wardens, anyway. In this case, religious fervor strengthens their morale, and morale is one of the many factors that can throw a force ratio firmly in one direction. Think about it. The Inquisition outnumbers the Wardens. It's unified, while the Wardens have internal divisions over their plan. It's better led. Having the belief that they are fighting for a holy cause is going to make those Inquisition soldiers fight even harder.
As for the beacon, I have found no such evidence of someone making that claim. I'm sure it would have turned up in one of the many Loghain discussions if it existed, and yet I can't find a single mention of it anywhere.
On my end:
1. The Wardens have demons.
2. The Wardens take only skilled fighters they proceed to train mercilessly.
3. The Wardens are combat pragmatists who fight to kill, not show off.
4. The Taint may give them an edge. If we're assuming Grey Wardens are just sentient Darkspawn, it's implied they're stronger and more durable than any normal human beings.
5. Wardens are brutal, unforgiving, and fearless fighters used to horror.
6. The Wardens have a castle, which historically means you need about 10 to 1 to defeat in open combat as a result.
vs.
1. The Templars or Circle of Mage's entire army is there.
2. Varric says that the Inquisition's military power by Skyhold is, "equal to any City-State" and with military agents plus perks, may equal that of a kingdom according to the epilogue slide depending on your influence.
3. The Inquisition has Siege Equipment.
4. Cullen is a military expert.
5. Leliana is a subterfuge expert.
6. All of your companions are throwing in their lot off and on screen as well.
7. Historically, one of the big problems with the military has been most people actually don't want to kill their opponents. One of the big advantages of moral and especially zeal is the followers tend to actually want to hurt the enemy. This changed with military conditioning but is a big thing.
One thing that WOULD be a factor in RL military engagements and why the Wardens would lose many engagements is the fact they're not a mixed military.
The Wardens have bowmen, mages, and swordsmen but are small engagement special forces.
Whereas the Inquisition is a full-on army-army with all that implies.
Larry Hama ended his original G.I. Joe comic by having Cobra smashed not by G.I. Joe but the regular United States military as the former were good but the sheer overwhelming power of that was more than anything the former could touch or bring to bear.
I'm hearing a lot of possible explanations for why the Wardens fared so poorly and the Inquisition did so well, and while I can kinda understand the losses due to the sacrifices/infighting in the ranks, the notion that the Wardens are incapable of open warfare doesn't make any sense, given what we've seen previously in the franchise.
And that's the major problem right there. The Wardens have been established as wholly capable from day one. From the intro cinematic of Origins and beyond, the Wardens have always been portrayed as excellent fighters and a respected military order for a reason. That doesn't mean they were invincible, or that they couldn't have moral ambiguities, or even that they always won, but at the end of the day, we were given a clear picture as to what exactly they were capable of, and how they could stand against enemies as monstrous as the darkspawn.
The problem isn't that Wardens are incapable of open warfare. The problem is open warfare being secondary even during a Blight. Whatever experience that was gained during the Blight is lost between the long peace period.
Also the Wardens have been established as excellent warriors yes but,
Except what happened at the beginning of Adamant didn't really show the fighting as a whole part for the Inquisition soldiers. The Wardens and the Inquisition soldiers were shown to just 1vs1 each others, with most of those 1vs1's resulted in the Wardens lost and deaths.The problem isn't that Wardens are incapable of open warfare. The problem is open warfare being secondary even during a Blight. Whatever experience that was gained during the Blight is lost between the long peace period.
Also the Wardens have been established as excellent warriors yes but,
"Warriors fight. Legionnaires fight together. It isn’t about being the best swordsman. It’s about forming a whole that is stronger than the sum of the individuals in it."
— Max (Cursor’s Fury)
They aren't soldiers, simply because they don't have to be to defeat a Blight.
Except what happened at the beginning of Adamant didn't really show the fighting as a whole part for the Inquisition soldiers. The Wardens and the Inquisition soldiers were shown to just 1vs1 each others, with most of those 1vs1's resulted in the Wardens lost and deaths.
You also have to take into account technical limitations. Animating complicated combat cutscenes (just to show that the Wardens are badasses) that you won't use more than 1/2 times in the whole game is a waste of resources.
Because the Inquisition, like love itself, conquers all.
Apparently.
The point.
Was poorly devised.
Only if you're a fanboy who refuses to see logic. PhoenixKing makes the best point here. The Inquisition was not established in the same level as the Wardens have been to us for years. The majority of this topic has been excuses to either point to why the Wardens aren't nearly as great as we've been explicitly shown the entire time, or why the Inquisition is, in fact, so great with extremely little backing to it. I think I'm done here. This argument is going in circles and, frankly, I've little respect for the other side of this argument.
Only if you're a fanboy who refuses to see logic. PhoenixKing makes the best point here. The Inquisition was not established in the same level as the Wardens have been to us for years. The majority of this topic has been excuses to either point to why the Wardens aren't nearly as great as we've been explicitly shown the entire time, or why the Inquisition is, in fact, so great with extremely little backing to it. I think I'm done here. This argument is going in circles and, frankly, I've little respect for the other side of this argument.
Before you go, may I ask what you are looking for then if the point ISN'T to show you why we think it's realistic?
What else would we say?
Just agreement?
Retour en haut