42 réponses à ce sujet

[VegetaForce]

You thinking that you can judge my judgement of your judgement is absurd!

Seriously though, you're the one saying that we should all do what you say It's cool that you have different opinions but don't pretend as if your opinions are the only ones that matter. They're not. This discussion is over, have a nice day.

You see, this is why I can't take anyone seriously here. There are several groups of responders:

1. The people who are passionate to the point of profession about the subject of history and the way this is done appeals to them. Fair enough.

2. The people who say learn to read or you don't like reading. These people tacitly assume that everything written is worth reading. I am not dealing with that crazy, this is the internet after all.

3. People like yourself who willfully misrepresent what I am saying because it is easy to do. And rhetorically easy to simplify me to a villain once you do so. From the post where I gave up, you were saying the codex are a couple of paragraphs. They amount to a page or half-page each, but the point is they aren't done in a way that appeals to a non-specialized reader. There are hundreds of them to make up for the fact that each is just a painful snack of not vital or relevant. You say people like Tolkien, but how many like how Tolkien handled his fantasy history? You say Martin indulged in a couple of pages of way back when now and again, but compared to Tolkien, what is this?

Lore heavy fantasy games are a relatively new phenomenon. The way it is handled varies wildly, from Dark Souls no explicit history to Dragon Age feeding you like you are working on your "On the Ancient Chantry of Thedas" thesis. I am saying Dragon Age pushes toward Tolkien, and it puts off players because even a small meal of not worth reading is something that should be cut. And Dragon Age shovels it at you, without offering any written history with vital and concise content.

I plant a flag in the fancy named section of the Fabled Plains that gets unlocked, why do I have to suffer about a page and half on sheet paper worth of legend about the area invoking people that aren't relevant to a place I am just passing through? Every time I plant a flag I get such a legend, but it is always done in a way that smacks of history for history's sake (like Tolkien). History for history's sake is a bad way to write fantasy literature, just as bad for a fantasy game.

If this makes "Zero sense" to you, then goodbye indeed.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I'm genuinely confused here.

 

Nothing you read in the codex's are "required" reading, everything you NEED to know is explained through cutscenes and dialogue and mission summaries and always has.

 

there's extra tidbit to flesh out the world and make things more interesting for those that love a fully fleshed out world. it's been this way since origins and thankfully hasn't changed. nor should it. personally i love the fact that i read a dozen back stories about an Axe then discovered the war table mission involving it and they all made so much more sense.

 

it was great, but the fact is you only need to read mission summary to tell you everything you need to know. 

[AshesEleven]

You see, this is why I can't take anyone seriously here. There are several groups of responders:

1. The people who are passionate to the point of profession about the subject of history and the way this is done appeals to them. Fair enough.

2. The people who say learn to read or you don't like reading. These people tacitly assume that everything written is worth reading. I am not dealing with that crazy, this is the internet after all.

3. People like yourself who willfully misrepresent what I am saying because it is easy to do. And rhetorically easy to simplify me to a villain once you do so. From the post where I gave up, you were saying the codex are a couple of paragraphs. They amount to a page or half-page each, but the point is they aren't done in a way that appeals to a non-specialized reader. There are hundreds of them to make up for the fact that each is just a painful snack of not vital or relevant. You say people like Tolkien, but how many like how Tolkien handled his fantasy history? You say Martin indulged in a couple of pages of way back when now and again, but compared to Tolkien, what is this?

Lore heavy fantasy games are a relatively new phenomenon. The way it is handled varies wildly, from Dark Souls no explicit history to Dragon Age feeding you like you are working on your "On the Ancient Chantry of Thedas" thesis. I am saying Dragon Age pushes toward Tolkien, and it puts off players because even a small meal of not worth reading is something that should be cut. And Dragon Age shovels it at you, without offering any written history with vital and concise content.

I plant a flag in the fancy named section of the Fabled Plains that gets unlocked, why do I have to suffer about a page and half on sheet paper worth of legend about the area invoking people that aren't relevant to a place I am just passing through? Every time I plant a flag I get such a legend, but it is always done in a way that smacks of history for history's sake (like Tolkien). History for history's sake is a bad way to write fantasy literature, just as bad for a fantasy game.

If this makes "Zero sense" to you, then goodbye indeed.

 

You realize you don't have to read those landmark codex entries, right?  You can just cancel right out of them?  Because if you didn't realize that, I can see why you might be a little annoyed.  

[VegetaForce]

You realize you don't have to read those landmark codex entries, right?  You can just cancel right out of them?  Because if you didn't realize that, I can see why you might be a little annoyed.

They are there, popping up hundreds of times in the same fashion as if indifferent to the reader's interest. I did stop reading, but that doesn't mean that what was popping up wasn't worthy of criticism.

[AshesEleven]

They are there, popping up hundreds of times in the same fashion as if indifferent to the reader's interest. I did stop reading, but that doesn't mean that what was popping up wasn't worthy of criticism.

 

Okay, so you're point is now boiled down to "I don't like that for a few seconds I have to deal with this text on screen which I can easily get rid of".

 

Tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, oh well.  

[VegetaForce]

Okay, so you're point is now boiled down to "I don't like that for a few seconds I have to deal with this text on screen which I can easily get rid of".
 
Tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, oh well.

Have you ever heard of "intellectual honesty"? If you are serious about debate in a standard above internet quality, academic argument, then try to give your opponent the most charitable interpretation of their argument. Think about what obvious counter arguments there are, and don't be quick to condense their view in to what is easiest to dismiss.

[AshesEleven]

Have you ever heard of "intellectual honesty"? If you are serious about debate in a standard above internet quality, academic argument, then try to give your opponent the most charitable interpretation of their argument. Think about what obvious counter arguments there are, and don't be quick to condense their view in to what is easiest to dismiss.

 

I have.  The best argument you are presenting is that there is too much history in a fantasy world, and that a game should not be so self-important as to think people care about it's history, and thus should present it in an easier way for people who don't feel like digging super deep and researching everything.  Am I wrong in saying that's your argument?

 

But the flaw in your argument is the NUMBER of people who have disagreed and said they enjoy this!  They don't want to change the codex entries, they like this!  So then you say they're wrong.  That they represent a minority and they're opinion don't matter because they like history, and you repeat that fantasy games shouldn't be like this.  You then repeat the word "absurd" often, as if we're crazy!

 

How is this in any way, shape, or form an academic argument?  You don't like the codex entries in a game that just give a little more background information.  We do.  End of discussion.  There is nothing of value to argue here, it's a fun little debate but for some reason you seem insulted that Bioware has included something that does not cater to your personal preferences.

 

People in this thread are confused by your point because you've turned a subjective preference into an objective necessity.  You state that Bioware MUST do things a certain way.  That is absurdity.  What's even more absurd is how I've spent too much spent on this silly little annoyance of yours.  So I suppose I'm the greater fool here.  

[Jawzzus]

So BSN's nitpicking has gotten to the point that reading is to much for the game now?  New level.

[VegetaForce]

If you consider that a charitable interpretation, please take some philsophy classes at some point.

If the vast majority of people playing the game will click away several hundred blurbs of text because it is so painfully bland, then something is wrong with the text by the numbers. If you think this forum and the people who elect to respond to this topic demonstrate the "numbers", well, maybe they will make a statistics course mandatory in your liberal arts program.

We could disagree about the number of people who will enjoy the history blurbs that pop up constantly. But remember, millions of people will play this game, and very few will join this forum and even less respond to this topic. We could part ways amicably there.

Now, when did I say you were crazy? I said your particular interest in content and degree separates you from most people, and it makes sense you like it. Do most people major in history in college?

This isn't an academic argument. But you are fond of rhetorical flourishes that come at the cost of intellectual honesty, and you are going in to an academic field. A smart reader won't be impressed or convinced by all the conflations you had to use to make it "seem" so apparent that I am out in left field criticizing the style of text.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Op doesn't like codex entries, comes to forums and complains that nobody likes codex entries.

 

Everyone says they like codex entries in repsonse. Everyone wrong except OP.

 

Linking a Kotaku article only added icing on the cake.

[DanAxe]

They are plastered over my screen constantly, and they have no informative or entertaining value to people who don't have a particular career interest in history. Everyone who has responded that they enjoy the content has a career interest in history.

If I am going to be deluged with hundreds of codices I don't want to read, I think it is fair game to give a couple codices worth of rebuttal as to why this content sucks. It is pretentious and targets a narrow crowd. If the game was made up of hundreds of omnipresent graph theory puzzles, well, non-mathematicians wouldn't be happy. Yet it is a side game, with a minimal presence. The history is everywhere, but it is done in the least interesting way possible for non-historians, so most of the people who want the flavor of history to the world have only the conversations to go on.

Honestly, I didn't think there would be a half-dozen people with a career history interest in this thread. It's your jam and not mine. That's why you say it is awesome, that is why I say it sucks. There is no codex worth reading for me, and I want there to be. It is all written for people like you, that is absurd to me.

 

Im sorry OP but this is... Bullsh**...

 

I studied and work in the movie industry (so, nothing to do with History) and I AM very interested in the history of Thedas. The lore is optional tho, you dont have to read them. If you are afraid you'll miss a sidequest for not reading everything in the game, well newsflash you dont have to read them. Just click them, if there's a quest it will immediatly go into your quest tracker, if not, then dont take the time to read it, you dont have to. Everything you need to know that is relevant to the game you are playing, you can learn through dialogue.

 

So other than bit**ing on something completely non-sensical, I dont see the point of this thread... Move on.

[Fishy]

I still wonder why BioWare still refuse to use motion capture. What happens  is the animation in the game seem to be archaic sometime. ( although for some reason the small wildlife animation is pretty good).  Don't get me started with hair also. They seem to be stuck in 2009. They just can't do it proper.

 

Also I want to sit on a chair and Walk !!! You can walk on the console version. grrrr

[hwlrmnky]

I fell in love with the story of Andraste's Mabari.

[AshesEleven]

I fell in love with the story of Andraste's Mabari.

 

If nothing else, I think we can all agree that Andraste's Mabari is the true hero.  I want to reform the Chantry so that we all worship that beautiful dog.  

[VegetaForce]

Op doesn't like codex entries, comes to forums and complains that nobody likes codex entries.

Everyone says they like codex entries in repsonse. Everyone wrong except OP.

Linking a Kotaku article only added icing on the cake.

Oh come on now. I never said nobody like the entries or they are wrong for liking them. I just implied everyone who argues the way you do is not a smart reader, and the implication is they are not good at critical thinking. But the open hositility below you, that is a cut above misrepresentation. That is what wins the internet.

[Vox Draco]

Hmm ... I read a lot of books back in Morrowind (after that there was less need, in Oblivion and Skyrim there were mostly the same anyway). I sometimes, sometimes not get into the Codices in DA-Games. Or spend some leisure time on wiki-sites reading articles.

 

However, Thedas feels way more "real" to me than Elder Scrolls for that matter. Even though ES-Lore is, like real history, very contradictive, which makes it interesting, I always have a problem with worlds where the gods/godlike-entities roam freely and constantly interact with mortals. I prefer the more mysterious setting in Thedas, and I also prefer NOT to know every detail about the past of Thedas...

[SofaJockey]

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is.  You don't like reading the history codices?  Then don't.  I'm majoring in History and this stuff is my jam, I love that it's there.  Why is this bad?  

 

Agree.

It's there for texture, it's not essential.

 

(And the only book I read all the way through in Skyrim was The Lusty Argonian Maid...) 

[AshesEleven]

Agree.

It's there for texture, it's not essential.

 

(And the only book I read all the way through in Skyrim was The Lusty Argonian Maid...) 

 

Try explaining that to the OP, it's like smashing your face against a wall repeatedly