69 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

I rarely post threads but I feel this needs to be reiterated.

 

Consoles do not have many problems because each console has only one kind of software. PCs come in so many shapes and sizes that it is literally impossible to predict all the issues that may arise. Inconsistent feedback regarding PC stability demonstrates this.

 

People who don't want to regularly maintain their PCs should not complain when they have issues with new software. There is almost always an additional layer of work PC players must do to make sure new software is 100% compatible with their computers. Considering that DAI is a game which literally uses the entire machine, there is bound to be something that can be improved.

 

So while you are right that not everyone is capable of taking care of their PCs, it's much more sensible for those who do not want to spend time tinkering with their computers to just play on consoles. 

 

It's as simple as that. PCs are a responsibility, not a miracle one size fits all.

So as much as it sucks to have issues, you are not 100% blameless in this. That is all.

[ghostzodd]

 

Some people pay 60 dollars for games day one. If they are dropping that kind of money they expect games to work. OP I have a question do you actually work for Ubisoft?

[Lebanese Dude]

 

Some people pay 60 dollars for games day one. If they are dropping that kind of money they expect games to work. OP I have a question do you actually work for Ubisoft?

 

They do work. They just don't work on your system because you haven't maintained it properly.

 

Notice that a majority of issues were resolved when proper drivers were installed.

 

You're also talking about software. It is not possible to predict all conflicts that may resolve with systems. 30GB of data is not something that can be 100% bug-free. Never.

 

So how about you present a proper counter-argument other than "consumer entitlement"? If I bought a car and couldn't drive it because I don't have a license, it's not the car company's fault..

[ghostzodd]

They do work. They just don't work on your system because you haven't maintained it properly.

 

Notice that a majority of issues were resolved when proper drivers were installed.

 

You're also talking about software. It is not possible to predict all conflicts that may resolve with systems. 30GB of data is not something that can be 100% bug-free. Never.

 

So how about you present a proper counter-argument other than "consumer entitlement"? If I bought a car and couldn't drive it because I don't have a license, it's not the car company's fault..

 

Its okay i think I have realized you work for ubisoft carry on good sir

[Estel78]

I agree that development for PC is complicated due to them coming in all shapes and sizes.

 

I disagree that for all woes the user is to blame, or the devs even. Sometimes PCs with their many software and drivers are just a mess.

 

Lesson for the day - buy a console.

[ghostzodd]

I agree that development for PC is complicated due to them coming in all shapes and sizes.

 

I disagree that for all woes the user is to blame, or the devs even. Sometimes PCs with their many software and drivers are just a mess.

 

Lesson for the day - buy a console.

 

or or or or......Wait for a steam sale/ when all DLC has been released

[Lebanese Dude]

Its okay i think I have realized you work for ubisoft carry on good sir

 

Are you trying to "insult" me or something?

[ghostzodd]

Are you trying to "insult" me or something?

 

No I have just realized that you work for ubisoft, and everything you say makes sense now regarding PC's. I mean why worry about optimization when you can just buy and a new graphics card duh

 

PC's are not as important as consoles anyway

[Lebanese Dude]

I agree that development for PC is complicated due to them coming in all shapes and sizes.

 

I disagree that for all woes the user is to blame, or the devs even. Sometimes PCs with their many software and drivers are just a mess.

 

Lesson for the day - buy a console.

 

Well they aren't typically a mess if the user properly assembles (if self-built) and maintains them.

 

Older hardware will inevitably start to break down due to wear and tear but that's not unique to PCs.

 

But yes...buy a console if you have zero patience for computer issues. No harm in it.

[Lebanese Dude]

No I have just realized that you work for ubisoft, and everything you say makes sense now regarding PC's. I mean why worry about optimization when you can just buy and a new graphics card duh

 

Honey I'm a Lebanese CS undergrad at an American university. 

 

I wish I worked for Ubisoft. At least I wouldn't have to worry about immigration and a job.

[ghostzodd]

Honey I'm an Lebanese CS undergrad at an American university. 

 

I wish I worked for Ubisoft. At least I wouldn't have to worry about immigration and a job.

 

http://www.reddit.co...isoft_employee/

[Lee T]

PC are more complicated to develop for, that's a known fact.

However it's a known fact since the beginning of this industry and unfinished games keep coming out of the gates.

Now that most consoles are online, buggy games at launch and day one patch are not uncommon for consoles too.

This is bean counter shortening development time thinking we'll always accept'to buy unfinished products because "that's how it is".

We are so patient that we do not mind some bugs to stay forever once the game is old enough that no one is left working on it (do the Warden's keep weapons still not carry over to Awakening?).

Keeping your PC in shape is one thing, but it will not change this industry behavior.

[Estel78]

Well they aren't typically a mess if the user properly assembles (if self-built) and maintains them.

 

If a driver or particular hardware won't work with a game well the user can maintain all he wants. Sometimes there just isn't that flawless driver for that game to install. And anyway, having to do research to find the best driver for a game - ugh, i have better things to do, like playing games.

[Diomed]

Nice circular logic there OP.  If the game doesn't work on your PC is must be your fault. 

 

No, it could be the fault of the PC owner, but it could also be the fault of the company that made the game.  It could also be that both parties are at fault.

[RDOT]

OP you could not be more wrong; it is laughable.  I do not own a console or want to invest the money into getting one.

 

I was able to play Origins and DA2 on my PC with 0 technical problems.  I am now on an upgraded PC that meets all the requirements and I am having a lot of technical problems for DAI.  Why should I have to go out and buy an expensive console just to continue playing the Dragon Age series?

 

Ghostzodd is right, I paid $60 and expect to have the same experience I had with the first 2 titles.

 

Wrong.....try again.

[Wulfram]

Some technical problems are the fault of the player, some technical problems are simply an almost inevitable consequence of the flexibility of the platform.

But most games do not have this amount of problems, which suggests that Bioware are at least somewhat at fault.

[Natureguy85]

PC are more complicated to develop for, that's a known fact.

However it's a known fact since the beginning of this industry and unfinished games keep coming out of the gates.

Now that most consoles are online, buggy games at launch and day one patch are not uncommon for consoles too.

This is bean counter shortening development time thinking we'll always accept'to buy unfinished products because "that's how it is".

We are so patient that we do not mind some bugs to stay forever once the game is old enough that no one is left working on it (do the Warden's keep weapons still not carry over to Awakening?).

Keeping your PC in shape is one thing, but it will not change this industry behavior.

 

Plus it's now an accepted norm that companies can rush products out the door and patch later. This is viable now that consoles are online just like PCs.

[Natureguy85]

OP you could not be more wrong; it is laughable.  I do not own a console or want to invest the money into getting one.

 

I was able to play Origins and DA2 on my PC with 0 technical problems.  I am now on an upgraded PC that meets all the requirements and I am having a lot of technical problems for DAI.  Why should I have to go out and buy an expensive console just to continue playing the Dragon Age series?

 

Ghostzodd is right, I paid $60 and expect to have the same experience I had with the first 2 titles.

 

Wrong.....try again.

 

Especially when they publish the requirements. If you meet or exceed them, you have a reasonable expectation that it will work.

[Sluntchop]

OP, if you were to look at the support threads, there are plenty of console players with plenty of problems. Also, if PC players wanted to dumb their game down to console level and accept 30fps at a lower resolution then the game would run fine and way more peoples machines. 

 

But remember, we buy and maintain (don't know any pc player that doesn't know whats in their rig) more expensive machines to GET more out of games, so naturally we expect more also. 

 

I have the exact recommended rig for this game, so I expect to be able to play it on high settings, turns out I can, but it crashes every 30 minutes or so and sometimes locks up the whole pc. Same problems with BF4 until it was patched and more drivers were releases. I have the exact same rig as I did on launch day for that. 

 

PC is more complicated, but no one expects a 450ti to run this game on ultra, absolutely no one. Because its more complicated, drivers are released by the guys who make our cards and Bioware patches up the game. 

 

One more note, you might just be hearing more noise from pc players because we are 2 clicks away from entering a forum post after our game crashes, Its much easier for us to jump on metacritic or these forums or comment because we are already on our keyboard...

 

Try not to blame a 30gb massive rpg games problems on the users. 

 

Last thing, PC users are the ones who help get big rpgs like this fixed, and not just launch issues, finding out math errors for stats (Rapid shot -3.0s instead of .3?) and generally giving good feedback the devs can use. 

[bEVEsthda]

No, no, no. You got it all wrong.

 

PCs are in fact far, far easier to develop for.

They're just harder to support. Or they can be harder to support - if you push the boundaries, which new AAA games must.

 

How important PCs are, is something we don't really know. And I think we don't know it because the industry is hiding it, as one step of achieving their long time holy grail - all console gaming.

 

The way I grasp it, PC-gaming has grown every year for like 2 decades. While it doesn't really look as if the consoles have conquered new terrain. My impression is that there are not more people today who are buying a PS4, than there were once people buying Nintendo64 or Playstation. And going downtown today (I was actually looking to maybe purchase DA:I PC) I could observe how virtually all game shops have disappeared. Only one remained. A GameStop squeezed into a kiosk-like little store. Despite that city was full of shoppers, there weren't many inside the GameStop store. Not that many would have fitted in there. The store's main items were a couple of huge shelves featuring used games, and a handful of PS4 and XBone systems to sell. Then Far Cry 4, CoD Advance Warfare and some GTA. They didn't offer DA:I on PC for sales. But they did have PS4 and XB1 versions. Not prominently though.

 

That's a huge difference from the time I can remember when we had 8 - 9 large game shops, always full of customers, more than half their shelves dedicated to PC games.

And PC-gaming is supposed to have grown every year since.

 

Digital sales you say?

Exactly! But it's well worth reminding of that the first ones who called for the publishers to focus on consoles were the distributors and retailers. It's well worth reminding of that this forced the launch of Steam. Which ushered in the age of digital sales. The distributors and retailers? Karma, I say.

 

Today, we have a big phenomenon of disgruntled hostility towards the video game industry. Generally called GamerGate. My impression is that it's mainly an effect from the industry's various efforts of console'ifying and formula'yzing their products.

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

No, no, no. You got it all wrong.

 

PCs are in fact far, far easier to develop for.

They're just harder to support. Or they can be harder to support - if you push the boundaries, which new AAA games must.

 

 

They're far cheaper to develop for, but not easier. Serious game breaking issues are far less likely when developing for standardized hardware. PC has too many variables to account for in development, hence the issues like what people are having.

 

PC software will always be harder to support, regardless of if you push tech limits or not.

 

Hats off to Ubisoft, I agree with the "90% of them are pirates bit" but I hate Assassins Creed, god I loathe that franchise. But as someone who worked at Team Bondi in Australia, I can relate to the terrible working conditions. The rush to release LA Noire was a very painful experience, and one that wasn't very rewarding. It was enough to root me out of the industry for good.

 

Yeah sorry I'm not very supportive of PC gamers anymore, console gamers just tend to enjoy what they got, bugs and all. That's admirable. Now I understand if you're having tech issues, but I have to agree with OP, most people just don't know WTF they're doing with a PC and just expect it to work. Yeah, no, sorry.

[adembroski]

This thread is chalk full of... Wait, no. I was going to say ignorance but that's wrong. Everyone's right but making different arguments. I'm not really sure what the one dude working for Ubisoft has to do with anything, but for the sake of full disclosure, I'm a freelance designer and I used to work for EA/Tiburon.

Half the people are saying the sun is huge and comparing to Earth as evidence, the other is saying the sun is tiny and comparing to the Milky Way. Nobody's wrong, but the discussion isn't getting anywhere.

Whether development is easier or harder by platform depends on what you're doing and by what method. It depends on the experience and aptitude of your people. It depends on your tools, both software and hardware. It depends on how you're threading, for God's sake. Everything from your DB manager to your bug repro methodology makes a difference.

Yanno what the hardest thing to develop for is? All three. The simple fact that it's a multi platform game with simultaneous releases is the biggest reason PC ends up with stability issues. Sony and Microsoft have certification processes that necessitate that those platforms are prioritized in beta. PC has to take on the bulk of issues because the others won't release otherwise.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's reality. I don't like unstable games at launch, but I accept it as a fact of life. Almost every PC release is screwed up at launch... It's a pattern, a trend, and it's sadly something we have to adapt to. That adaptation might be to automatically reset out internal release clocks 3 months later (yes, it'll be stable before that, but 3 months forces the company to push revenue reporting into the next quarter and investors HATE that, so it's likely to get their attention if done en mass).

[HozzMidnight]

Technical issues aside the biggest problem with the PC version is all on Bioware and that is that its just a lazy port.  They did nothing to take advantage of what the PC offers.  The UI sucks.  The tac cam sucks.  There are no tooltips.  They phoned this one in.

[Lebanese Dude]

OP, if you were to look at the support threads, there are plenty of console players with plenty of problems. Also, if PC players wanted to dumb their game down to console level and accept 30fps at a lower resolution then the game would run fine and way more peoples machines. 

 

But remember, we buy and maintain (don't know any pc player that doesn't know whats in their rig) more expensive machines to GET more out of games, so naturally we expect more also. 

 

I have the exact recommended rig for this game, so I expect to be able to play it on high settings, turns out I can, but it crashes every 30 minutes or so and sometimes locks up the whole pc. Same problems with BF4 until it was patched and more drivers were releases. I have the exact same rig as I did on launch day for that. 

 

PC is more complicated, but no one expects a 450ti to run this game on ultra, absolutely no one. Because its more complicated, drivers are released by the guys who make our cards and Bioware patches up the game. 

 

One more note, you might just be hearing more noise from pc players because we are 2 clicks away from entering a forum post after our game crashes, Its much easier for us to jump on metacritic or these forums or comment because we are already on our keyboard...

 

Try not to blame a 30gb massive rpg games problems on the users. 

 

Last thing, PC users are the ones who help get big rpgs like this fixed, and not just launch issues, finding out math errors for stats (Rapid shot -3.0s instead of .3?) and generally giving good feedback the devs can use. 

 

I never claimed that players should not provide feedback. That was not the point of the thread. In fact I welcome it. The point is that the feedback has to be justified, not the product of irrational animus.

 

I was simply stating that a game as large and demanding as Dragon Age requires the player to keep their rig in check. 

 

There are going to be bugs that are shared across platforms... but I was reiterating that PCs tend to have more colorful problems due to the nature of their mutability.

[Lebanese Dude]

Technical issues aside the biggest problem with the PC version is all on Bioware and that is that its just a lazy port.  They did nothing to take advantage of what the PC offers.  The UI sucks.  The tac cam sucks.  There are no tooltips.  They phoned this one in.

 

All subjective opinions. Your game runs perfectly well... you just have problems with some design choices which is not the scope of this thread.

 

Considering that your opinion is shared with a great deal of people, I expect BioWare will resolve this in due time.

 

But in the end, your game is perfectly playable despite your concerns.