181 réponses à ce sujet

[Gel214th]

The Development team couldn't decide what htey wanted to do.

 

Someone wanted to make Shadow of Mordor in Thedas, and someone else felt they had to create an RPG like Dragon Age.

 

Or rather a Publisher decided that in order to make more money, "everyone" wants an Action game, that would sell better. 

 

So now we have Dragon Age: Inquisition.

 

With Reflex based buttons on Rogues that the AI has no clue how to implement, no move-to-attack in Singleplayer normal view, and a tactical view that tries to transform the game into Dragon Age : Origins to satisfy the game's loyal player base who made it what it is today.

 

The idea here was to appeal to the widest range of people. Those who play Assassin's Creed, Shadows of Mordor, Dark Souls and others, and still throw a bone to the series' loyal fanbase.

 

And, of course, to support active multiplayer so that they can make even more revenue from the cash shop, when what the fanbase would have really appreciated would have been Campaign Co-Op a la Neverwinter Nights. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer experiment was apparently successful to the bean counters. 

 

The problem is that if they were doing that, they needed to go all the way. Have a reduced number of skills that are all rapid action combat oriented. Forget about "tactics", maybe just have a party of two. And balance the game around that.

 

OR

 

Give us an RPG with evasion attributes etc. and make the combat turn based, or pausable, without trying to appeal to an Action Combat crowd. 

 

DA:I tries to do both, and as almost every game that has tried this, does not excel at either one. It's not a terrible third person action combat RPG...but it isn't a great one. And it isn't a terrible Tactical Turn Based combat RPG, but it isn't a good one. 

 

This makes me think that the next Mass Effect will be a full on Call of Duty style shooter (hyperbole, but you get my drift). 

 

Hopefully the multiplayer revenue will be used to retrofit some of the systems that we need back into the game.

Gaming has always been a business, but that business has turned rapacious and is now killing my hobby  

Yeah, I'm feeling a bit bummy about the whole thing. Graphics and world environments are amazing though. And the story is the DNA-wired narrative we have been happily playing/watching for the last few decades or so...it has that going for it. 

[Brogan]

Separate team to do pc...

Would have solved every problem.

[Sartoz]

Didn't Bioware managers mention that Dragon Age is all about the story and characters and nothing about gameplay?

[Prophet2233]

Separate team to do pc...

Would have solved every problem.

 

Would have... "but our main platform is PC anyways"...you know?

[Brogan]

If they did, the people who are returning it until they can actually 'play' the game might have a few words for them.

[Callous]

I blame you for expecting a real rpg from a AAA dev. RPGs are envogue now and it's all about maximusing user base and profits. No way a game like mass effect 1 or dragon age 1 will be released today by a AAA Puplisher. If you want thought and strategy in your rpg stick to indies. Not to say dai Is a bad game, it just different.

[Fast Jimmy]

Separate team to do pc...

Would have solved every problem.

Not really.

Yes, there are PC UI features, but that still doesn't fix issues like a simplified AI Tactics system, automation of the attributes, huge ratio gap of engaging story items to fetch quests, action-game skills such as combat roll and a lack of any the of no-combat skills/alternate builds. A separate PC team would fix none of these game philosophy changes.

[Dakota Strider]

So, this is how EA slowly kills Bioware.  Allowed them to make DAO exactly as they wanted, basically the next step up from BG2 and NWN.  DA2, starts catering more to non-PC game, and it starts to feel like an arcade.  Now DAI comes along, and almost every connection to a PC game feels broken.  Cannot recommend this game right now.  Have spent more time in forums looking for solutions to why the controls won't work, then I have been able to spend in game.

[pablosplinter]

Didn't Bioware managers mention that Dragon Age is all about the story and characters and nothing about gameplay?

I very much doubt it. Nobody would be stupid enough to say that!

[count_4]

The Development team couldn't decide what htey wanted to do.

 

Someone wanted to make Shadow of Mordor in Thedas, and someone else felt they had to create an RPG like Dragon Age.

 

Or rather a Publisher decided that in order to make more money, "everyone" wants an Action game, that would sell better. 

 

So now we have Dragon Age: Inquisition.

 

With Reflex based buttons on Rogues that the AI has no clue how to implement, no move-to-attack in Singleplayer normal view, and a tactical view that tries to transform the game into Dragon Age : Origins to satisfy the game's loyal player base who made it what it is today.

 

The idea here was to appeal to the widest range of people. Those who play Assassin's Creed, Shadows of Mordor, Dark Souls and others, and still throw a bone to the series' loyal fanbase.

 

And, of course, to support active multiplayer so that they can make even more revenue from the cash shop, when what the fanbase would have really appreciated would have been Campaign Co-Op a la Neverwinter Nights. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer experiment was apparently successful to the bean counters. 

 

And if they patch the most glaring issues with the PC controls and add attack cancelling it will actually work out. DAI is a lot of fun, different to and most notably less complex than DAO but still a great experience. My only gripes with it are the f'd up controls and the lack of attack cancelling.

 

Later being especially obvious when you fight, for example, a bear. It has a major attack that it announces by standing up for two seconds. Which indicates a, as you said, reflex-based system to evade the attack. But you can't if your character is currently in an attack animation. If they fix this nonsense, add move-to-click and some of the other requested things, I'm perfectly happy with what DAI has become.

 

Also, as a sidenote, ME3 multiplayer was awesome. Haven't tried DAI MP yet but if it comes even close, I'll be enjoying it as well.

[Gel214th]

And if they patch the most glaring issues with the PC controls and add attack cancelling it will actually work out. DAI is a lot of fun, different to and most notably less complex than DAO but still a great experience. My only gripes with it are the f'd up controls and the lack of attack cancelling.

 

Later being especially obvious when you fight, for example, a bear. It has a major attack that it announces by standing up for two seconds. Which indicates a, as you said, reflex-based system to evade the attack. But you can't if your character is currently in an attack animation. If they fix this nonsense, add move-to-click and some of the other requested things, I'm perfectly happy with what DAI has become.

 

Also, as a sidenote, ME3 multiplayer was awesome. Haven't tried DAI MP yet but if it comes even close, I'll be enjoying it as well.

 

When the bear stands up for those two seconds, how are you supposed to evade that attack?

 

Do you pause the game immediately (in one second) then click on all your characters and have them move away from the bear? 

 

Do you just move the character you are controlling?

 

I mean how do you handle REFLEX SAVES for 4 characters??? 

Or is the combat balanced around you definitely getting hit? 

 

It just doesn't make sense, and that's why I say the game wants to be a full 3rd person Action RPG like Shadow of Mordor.

 

Reflex Saves probably work great in the Multiplayer where one human controls one character, and everyone is responsible for "dodging" the enemy attacks.

[Wifeaggro]

I have made the decision to finish the game out of spite as i missed the 24 hour game return policy. the deeper i i get into the game the more frustrating. the whole lets drop damage stunning eruptions all over the field but freeze movement if your attacking? great decision. They tried to make action combat with limiting movement of the Player is horrible. removing the tweaking of the player AI was terrible decision. characters like Cole just stand in the AOE's until their dead. The Tactical mode is so poorly implemented ill take my chances in real time.

 

But i could probably look past that if this was not a clear dumb down for a controller. Removing class abilites  to minimal actives , really limits your choices builds they did not even try to hide the linear progression. making a convoluted loot system with a horribly implemented crafting and materials. DAI was five steps backwards from DAO. the exact opposite of the BG series which added complexity choice and features with each expansion and iteration . same with the KOTOR series. it started with ME2 and has degraded to this. I somewhat expected it with SWTOR as it was clearly Ritchtello calling the shots on development for that Austin studio. But i did not expect a complete an utter mail in from Canada BW.

[Wifeaggro]

...You realize you aren't supposed to stay in the Hinterlands? You're intended to go back after you've advanced the story and levelled up a bit.

 

Go back to Haven and talk with your advisors and see what happens. 

 

Also, what do you mean that there aren't any dungeons? 

Unfortunatey in hinterlands there are lvl 12 rifts for an area that is labeled far lower.

[Wifeaggro]

Not really.

Yes, there are PC UI features, but that still doesn't fix issues like a simplified AI Tactics system, automation of the attributes, huge ratio of engaging story items to fetch quests, action-game skills such as combat roll and a lack of any the of no-combat skills/alternate builds. A separate PC team would fix none of these game philosophy changes.

Exactly this is not just about PC ui. its a clear dumbing down of the game franchise to cater soley for a Console to try to capture an audience other then RPG players. the problem is the Action combat and implementation of this is so terrible Zenimax is laughing at all the way to the bank. They did a better job with action combat in a MMO then this did for a single player game. this is the Death nail for me ill not buy another BW product ever i passed on ME3 after reading reviews. this i had hopes for and pre ordered. Shame on me

[Darkly Tranquil]

I blame you for expecting a real rpg from a AAA dev. RPGs are envogue now and it's all about maximusing user base and profits. No way a game like mass effect 1 or dragon age 1 will be released today by a AAA Puplisher. If you want thought and strategy in your rpg stick to indies. Not to say dai Is a bad game, it just different.

Sadly true. The Banner Saga, Divinity: Original Sin, and Wasteland 2 (and Pillars of Eternity soon, hopefully) are proof that indies are where the tactical RPG love is. AAA developers just want to make Michael Bay movies.

[TruthSerum]

The Development team couldn't decide what htey wanted to do.

Someone wanted to make Shadow of Mordor in Thedas, and someone else felt they had to create an RPG like Dragon Age.

Or rather a Publisher decided that in order to make more money, "everyone" wants an Action game, that would sell better.

So now we have Dragon Age: Inquisition.

With Reflex based buttons on Rogues that the AI has no clue how to implement, no move-to-attack in Singleplayer normal view, and a tactical view that tries to transform the game into Dragon Age : Origins to satisfy the game's loyal player base who made it what it is today.

The idea here was to appeal to the widest range of people. Those who play Assassin's Creed, Shadows of Mordor, Dark Souls and others, and still throw a bone to the series' loyal fanbase.

And, of course, to support active multiplayer so that they can make even more revenue from the cash shop, when what the fanbase would have really appreciated would have been Campaign Co-Op a la Neverwinter Nights. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer experiment was apparently successful to the bean counters.

The problem is that if they were doing that, they needed to go all the way. Have a reduced number of skills that are all rapid action combat oriented. Forget about "tactics", maybe just have a party of two. And balance the game around that.

OR

Give us an RPG with evasion attributes etc. and make the combat turn based, or pausable, without trying to appeal to an Action Combat crowd.

DA:I tries to do both, and as almost every game that has tried this, does not excel at either one. It's not a terrible third person action combat RPG...but it isn't a great one. And it isn't a terrible Tactical Turn Based combat RPG, but it isn't a good one.

This makes me think that the next Mass Effect will be a full on Call of Duty style shooter (hyperbole, but you get my drift).

Hopefully the multiplayer revenue will be used to retrofit some of the systems that we need back into the game.
Gaming has always been a business, but that business has turned rapacious and is now killing my hobby

Yeah, I'm feeling a bit bummy about the whole thing. Graphics and world environments are amazing though. And the story is the DNA-wired narrative we have been happily playing/watching for the last few decades or so...it has that going for it.

Traditional turn based rpg's have become a niche market. I know I would not have bought DAI if it was old school tactical only.

Dragon Age is EA/Bioware's AAA fantasy rpg franchise and if they want to do true AAA numbers the game is going to have to continue to be an action/rpg. Old school DAO die hards might not like it but that's just the way the world is

I just wish the mage wasn't the only class with satisfying combat. I first tried a rogue archer but the combat was so milquetoast and flat feeling that I went back and completely started over as a mage simply because the combat has a little more oomph to it when you are casting spells rather than shooting a bow.

[pablosplinter]

Sadly true. The Banner Saga, Divinity: Original Sin, and Wasteland 2 (and Pillars of Eternity soon, hopefully) are proof that indies are where the tactical RPG love is. AAA developers just want to make Michael Bay movies.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, Wasteland 2 was awful!

[Chaos17]

Didn't Bioware managers mention that Dragon Age is all about the story and characters and nothing about gameplay?

PR first the win.

[Selea]

What there's of wrong on having two separate control schemes for combat? If there weren't the issues there are now the system would work quite well. Normal camera = action RPG combat, tac cam = old style RPG combat. It is absolutely not true in this case that trying to do both means that you get nothing well done because the control schemes are separated, they are not fused in one. The two control schemes are not tied together and you need to "switch" to pass from one to the other, meaning that you can have them work at their best individually (since there's no mixing).

There are issues at the moment that don't make the control schemes work correctly but on paper the system works fine and it is actually a well thought choice to separate the two by means of the camera zoom; in this way (as I said) you don't mix the input control and so you can have both work fine (since they don't overlap).

As for those that insist on pretending a full point and click interface (as DA:O) then it is time you wake up. It is NOT going to happen. Given the complexity of the open world environments in the game it would take too much time to implement and it would not be worth it (even pretending it is possible to actually do so, a thing I highly doubt).

[Olivier_dehFanboy]

i hate these kinds of threads that act like bioware can change the fundamentals of the game with a patch. You saw the videos and the walkthroughs... you knew what kind of game this would be... so i ask you, what the **** is the point of this thread?

[Wifeaggro]

Videos and walk throughs is not playing the actual game and a lot of the concerns were voiced prior. But your name explains it all

[Selea]

Videos and walk throughs is not playing the actual game and a lot of the concerns were voiced prior. But your name explains it all

However it was a little obvious that a context of that scope could NOT allow a full point and click interface. Only a naive person could really believe possible that in an open world environment with the complexity of the Frostbite engine it would have been feasible to have a full point and click scheme. Possible? Maybe (but I still have my doubts) worth it? No.

Given the context you have to make decisions on the best route to take and IMO the choice to separate controls was a good one on paper since it gives users the option to have a point and click combat out of an action RPG control scheme. The fact that now there are some problems that make the control input not work at its full possibility doesn't detract from the fact that on the paper it is a well thought system given the context.

People that pretend a point & click system out of DA:I are simply daydreamers living in a sort of fantasy world where everything is possible just because you desire it, no matter how difficult it can be given the problematics behind.

[HozzMidnight]

Sadly true. The Banner Saga, Divinity: Original Sin, and Wasteland 2 (and Pillars of Eternity soon, hopefully) are proof that indies are where the tactical RPG love is. AAA developers just want to make Michael Bay movies.

 

I really liked Original Sin, a lot.  Best Larian game ever, by far.  I didn't think much of anything they had done previously, to be honest.

 

Wasteland 2 was a bit of a let down in that the first half of the game was very well done and the second half was clearly not finished being tested and tuned.  That and the skills/stats needed re-balancing.  Still, in today's CRPG environment, happy to have that game.

[Olivier_dehFanboy]

Videos and walk throughs is not playing the actual game and a lot of the concerns were voiced prior. But your name explains it all.

 

Yeah, I'm a fanboy because, as Selea so elegantly put it, i'm not a daydreamer like you. This is a new game on  new engine with new game design incompatible with CRPG control scheme... Get over your nostalgia. Stop being a rampant consumerist that constantly whines because every detail didn't go your way. The console control scheme still has issues, that doesn't mean i get to act like a marginalized group suffering prejudice at the hands of a GAME developer. some of you seriously need to go to a third world country and really see what the world is really like... maybe then you would not be so attached to your video games and how developers deliver them to you.

[Aurok]

Do you really think Mordor was a big influence on development? It came out about five minutes ago.