181 réponses à ce sujet

[Razir-Samus]

personally, i blame the engine... and bioware for deciding to use this engine

 

 

 

 

 

 

i despise this engine...

[Gel214th]

Really? So if I say that this orange on the table is rotten and not tasting good then is it "kinda the same" as saying that an orange as a fruit is not tasting good?

So Selea, you're saying that it was a good idea, but poorly implemented?

 

Ok, let's go with that and move forward. 

 

We kinda want it implemented better, hopefully with patches.

[robmokron]

I can understand that having a "iffy" control scheme on PC can be annoying, but does that make the game ruined? I mean i beleive majority of players are playing for the story.progression.

 

Personally i take each new sequel as its own thing, to expect Dragon age 1 to be exactly like Dragon age 2 for example, is silly.

 

BUT SEQUELS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE PAST GAMES!

 

sequels are supposed to build on what the previous game and build on it for better or worse.

 

You have Halo 1, great game, defined a genre (console anyways), Halo 2 there is dual weilding, wow! Halo 3, no dual weilding. see what im getting at?

 

Dont call a game terrible because you cant grasp the control scheme to fit your needs.

 

I'm playing on Nightmare and switching between action and tatical to so what i want is a little weird yes, but i adapted and figured out how to use it to its best ability.

[TruthSerum]

personally, i blame the engine... and bioware for deciding to use this engine






i despise this engine...

I would bet that it was probably EA's decision to go with the Frosbiite engine instead of something that Bioware was more familiar with because they don't have to pay any royalties for using an engine that they own outright.

Unfortunately Bioware's lack of experience and expertise with the Frostbite engine is on full display with DAI.

I can tell you right now I will be absolutely heartbroken if ME4 is as poorly put together as DAI
simply because they haven't fully figured out the nuances of the Frostbite engine.

[robmokron]

I would bet that it was probably EA's decision to go with the Frosbiite engine instead of something that Bioware was more familiar with because they don't have to pay any royalties for using an engine that they own outright.

Unfortunately Bioware's lack of experience and expertise with the Frostbite engine is on full display with DAI.

I can tell you right now I will be absolutely heartbroken if ME4 is as poorly put together as DAI
simply because they haven't fully figured out the nuances of the Frostbite engine.

Keep in mind that ME(4) is being made in the montreal studio, not the edmonton one. The montreal studio created ME3 multiplayer, so thats what will be apparent.

[TruthSerum]

Keep in mind that ME(4) is being made in the montreal studio, not the edmonton one. The montreal studio created ME3 multiplayer, so thats what will be apparent.

Yes I understand that BW Montreal made ME3 mp (which I think is god tier btw) the problem is they made that with the Unreal engine and now they are starting from the ground up with a completely different engine for ME4.

BW Montreal can probably code with the Unreal engine in their sleep but who knows how they will do with Frostbite. We already know BW Edmonton aren't exactly 4th Level Black Belt ninja masters when using the Frostbite engine simply from judging how DAI turned out.

[robmokron]

Yes I understand that BW Montreal made ME3 mp (which I think is god tier btw) the problem is they made that with the Unreal engine and now they are starting from the ground up with a completely different engine for ME4.

BW Montreal can probably code with the Unreal engine in their sleep but who knows how they will do with Frostbite. We already know BW Edmonton aren't exactly 4th Level Black Belt ninja masters when using the Frostbite engine simply from judging how DAI turned out.

I think the game turned out fine IMO, but your point is valid. when youre painting a picture with new brushes, your first painting might not reflect your other work.

 

Atleast Frostbite is a great engine (from what ive heard) youre able to generate alot of detailed space with little hits to performance.

[Lethys1]

Separate team to do pc...

Would have solved every problem.

 

This.  I also think 2 separate sets of AI would work; one for tactical, one for action.  You choose in the beginning of the game which you want.  Would make for a much better experience than the current compromised experience we've been given.

[Lethys1]

personally, i blame the engine... and bioware for deciding to use this engine

 

 

 

 

 

 

i despise this engine...

 

I doubt the degree to which it was their decision.  I think I read somewhere that EA wants everyone using that engine but I really am not sure.

[Morroian]

The Development team couldn't decide what htey wanted to do.

 

Someone wanted to make Shadow of Mordor in Thedas, and someone else felt they had to create an RPG like Dragon Age.

 

 

Spot on this is the point I've made before about shoehorning 2 conflicting design decisions together. It doesn't work.

[fchopin]

I agree with you op, they should decide on what they want and just pick one way to avoid the mediocre combat we have in DAI.

[Gwalchmai]

I can understand that having a "iffy" control scheme on PC can be annoying, but does that make the game ruined? I mean i beleive majority of players are playing for the story.progression.

 

Personally i take each new sequel as its own thing, to expect Dragon age 1 to be exactly like Dragon age 2 for example, is silly.

 

BUT SEQUELS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE PAST GAMES!

 

sequels are supposed to build on what the previous game and build on it for better or worse.

 

You have Halo 1, great game, defined a genre (console anyways), Halo 2 there is dual weilding, wow! Halo 3, no dual weilding. see what im getting at?

 

Dont call a game terrible because you cant grasp the control scheme to fit your needs.

 

I'm playing on Nightmare and switching between action and tatical to so what i want is a little weird yes, but i adapted and figured out how to use it to its best ability.

Just had a short session in the game and having to hold 2 mouse buttons is killing my hand. My mouse settings have been tweaked to death and only helps slightly. The mouse/kb scheme is bad. An auto-attack option is really needed (among a whole bunch of other things).  Options? A controller just like EA wants us to do? Oh, a controller on a PC is not the most natural thing? Get a console. Now, they have me where they want me; a platform that is cookie cutter and easier to program for, harder to pirate on, no creativity or modifications to keep their software safe, and lastly and most importantly more $$$. "Dont call a game terrible because you cant grasp the control scheme to fit your needs." PC is about "options" and alot of them. If the core of the game is based around bad controls/UI then what good is some pretty graphics and a "good story"? EA/Bioware have spoken volumes about what they think of the PC with this game.

[DangerKips]

I doubt the degree to which it was their decision.  I think I read somewhere that EA wants everyone using that engine but I really am not sure.

Actually, it seems it was BioWare that asked to work with this engine.
 

"Instead of strong-arming developers into using the engine with a company-wide mandate, Soderlund wanted to take a different route. "We'll produce great games on it, games that look good and we think are developed in the proper way, and then hopefully if people will want to use it, they're going to come and ask for it," he said.

 

That's exactly what happened. BioWare reached out to EA about using the engine for the next games in its Dragon Age and Mass Effect role-playing franchises."

Source:http://www.engadget....ld-mass-effect/

[Sasie]

The Bioware defenders seems to have somehow been convinced that a game like Origin just wouldn't sell in today's market. I find it hard to believe that things changed that much since 2009. Especially considering the success of the kickstarter RPGs. Personally I believe a game true to it's root of Dragon Age Origins would sell just as well today as it did on release because there is zero competition for that kind of game.

However "Skyrim changed everything" and thus we have Inquisition. Now I can't pretend it's not a good game but I can honestly say I prefer some storytelling elements of Dragon Age 2 and the combat/controls of the earlier games. Open world games like this have too many elements intended to simply waste time for me to fully appreciate it.

[Aurok]

Spot on this is the point I've made before about shoehorning 2 conflicting design decisions together. It doesn't work.

It doesn't work here, but there's no inherent reason why it couldn't have worked. There's nothing about the action side of this game which would prevent them implementing the gambit system for example, or which would prevent them making a functional tac cam. The only thing stopping those elements being in the game is Bioware deciding not to include them.

[darkmanifest]

Do you really think Mordor was a big influence on development? It came out about five minutes ago.

 

Games like Skyrim and Kingdoms of Amalur seem to be the influences.  I own both and how similar they are to DA:I's combat scheme is very tangible when you play them back-to-back.  Amalur in particular has very fluid twitch combat that is built around diversity and being able to predict the unpredictable, which requires being able to swap between weapons on the fly and making certain abilities universal for all classes - like sneak, dodge, and shield - because there's no health regen in that game, either, so it's all about damage mitigation.  But it's a single player real-time game, twitch mechanics do not mesh well with a pause-time party system, because you can't control every character at once (i.e. seeing the enemy's blow coming so you can proactively dodge/block/counter it, instead of building Con or Dex so that the damage is avoided or offset automatically) and the AI can't do it for you.

 

So the result in DA:I is a mess of twitch skills and activated skills that have very little synergy with each other.  Or at least it doesn't for me.  I've got my rogue stabbing at air while my warrior charges forward at nothing and my mage throws up a barrier on empty ground (because it was somebody's bright idea to make critical default abilities capable of missing entirely).  I'm trying to make it work and it's not impossible, but it's not intuitive, either.

[Theesit]

This is what happen when you dont know what you are doing. Bioware try to do everything big but nothing come out right. This game i not sure it got influence, cos they copy too many ideas from other games.DAI try to be skyrim , witcher , assasin cred and many more nothing original here.

Worst It so call RPG game but you cant customize your character.no attribute , no race bonus, no personality , no creative skill tree? No battle mage? Well what we got is soulless character.

[Fast Jimmy]

personally, i blame the engine... and bioware for deciding to use this engine

 

 

 

 

 

 

i despise this engine...

 

It has nothing to do with the engine. Anything you may be attributing to the engine has nothing to do with the engine.

 

An engine is merely a software stage. You can have the Czech Philharmonic and Justin Bieber play in Madison Square Gardens. That neither makes the Garden a center of musical culture or an embodiment of a bubblegum pop music industry... it merely is a venue where music is played. An engine is the same way - it is how the coding, software and development is executed, not at all in its content.

[Fast Jimmy]

 

Actually, it seems it was BioWare that asked to work with this engine.
 

"Instead of strong-arming developers into using the engine with a company-wide mandate, Soderlund wanted to take a different route. "We'll produce great games on it, games that look good and we think are developed in the proper way, and then hopefully if people will want to use it, they're going to come and ask for it," he said.

 

That's exactly what happened. BioWare reached out to EA about using the engine for the next games in its Dragon Age and Mass Effect role-playing franchises."

Source:http://www.engadget....ld-mass-effect/

 

 

Although it IS true that every EA game will be made on the Frostbite engine over the next few years. Yes, Bioware was the first EA developer outside of DICE (who created the engine) to use it and they apparently did so of their own request (since the DA engine was basically an update of an update of an update of the NWN engine in a fashion)... but EA is also working towards everyone using Frostbite.

 

Which is an awesome decision. It saves Bioware lots of time and resources to not have to update or re-invent a game engine with every game they make. And having all games under one engine saves money, while also centralizing all of the tools and "lessons learned" from all other games made by EA, which is a huge resource. They had to do a lot of work on the engine to make it work with DA:I - the engine had no tools for making conversations, for instance, or allow for any character models with more than two legs (of which there are tons including, you know, the titular DRAGONS in the series name), but all of that work would have had needed to be done regardless, since Bioware was going to need to start with a new engine for DA:I. Might as well make it for an engine that will continue to expand, adapt and improve with each EA game that is released, not just with each Dragon Age game.

[tehace]

I can understand that having a "iffy" control scheme on PC can be annoying, but does that make the game ruined? I mean i beleive majority of players are playing for the story.progression.

 

Personally i take each new sequel as its own thing, to expect Dragon age 1 to be exactly like Dragon age 2 for example, is silly.

 

BUT SEQUELS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE PAST GAMES!

 

sequels are supposed to build on what the previous game and build on it for better or worse.

 

You have Halo 1, great game, defined a genre (console anyways), Halo 2 there is dual weilding, wow! Halo 3, no dual weilding. see what im getting at?

 

Dont call a game terrible because you cant grasp the control scheme to fit your needs.

 

I'm playing on Nightmare and switching between action and tatical to so what i want is a little weird yes, but i adapted and figured out how to use it to its best ability.

 

the point is all of them felt great to play as the controls were good. It doesnt matter if they innovate this or that or change something here or there as long as the core mechanics are solid its all good. With DAI im struggling more with the controls/camera than with the actual enemies ingame, if the controls irritate so many people they will not enjoy the story nor want to progress in it.

[Razir-Samus]

It has nothing to do with the engine. Anything you may be attributing to the engine has nothing to do with the engine.

 

An engine is merely a software stage. You can have the Czech Philharmonic and Justin Bieber play in Madison Square Gardens. That neither makes the Garden a center of musical culture or an embodiment of a bubblegum pop music industry... it merely is a venue where music is played. An engine is the same way - it is how the coding, software and development is executed, not at all in its content.

yet worries that began when i first heard about this game being built on the frostbite engine were actually well founded come release, the game is a mess;

 

• the tactical aspect is crippled
• most of the characters just look flat-out weird
• my character gets stuck on pebbles and has to spam jump (core feature of the battlefield games, thank you frostbite)
• i've had my character lunge and go flying off the top of hills, i've had mobs fly off the top of hills when they get knocked back
• my team often gets stuck on terrain
• when switching between other characters they will sometimes warp back to where i began taking control of them for some bizarre reason
• combat feels sluggish, with strange delays after a weapon swing that really slow down the fight and often lands me in one of the many aoe patches because there's no readily way to dodge or sprint (it doesn't work in sp)
• i find myself swinging at air despite being in visual range of a mob, sometimes i lunge, sometimes i don't
• i can activate skills without having a target in range (ugh), the shield spell is ridiculous, why not just have it cast on the entire party by default?
• skill trees are longer(expanded?) but i feel no real character growth when going through one
• the game itself runs like poop, i've tried a multitude of settings but it still feels like i'm playing on a console, sliding around, input lag
• skill synergy is lost with the seemingly random use of spells with a dumbed down "preferred" system

i feel like the combat is like this to encourage you NOT to use the tactical view, it is faster paced than even DA2 was (and that was faster paced than DA:O), but then again there's the encouragement to simply use it to micromanage your party to hell because of the balls NEW AND IMPROVED tactics screen (golfclap)

 

so are you 100% certain that the dumbed down core features that have been thrown at us with this next iteration of dragon age AREN'T because of engine limitations? see i don't know this stuff, all i know is that the engine changed and dragon age with it, in many ways for the worse

[TobyJake]

i hate these kinds of threads that act like bioware can change the fundamentals of the game with a patch. You saw the videos and the walkthroughs... you knew what kind of game this would be... so i ask you, what the **** is the point of this thread?

The main point is that all the PR & spin was about how this was developed for the PC!! Obviously a lie. That is why people are up in arms. Dozens of demos but only one using a mouse and KB. That was so disjointed, it was plain to see he was not comfortable with it. It's a betrayal after trust.

[Nefrast]

This makes me think that the next Mass Effect will be a full on Call of Duty style shooter (hyperbole, but you get my drift). 

 

Actually, that would be one of the better outcomes. Looking at Inquisition, I would prefer getting rid of the broken unsatisfying tactical game play mess and going full action game play. But alas, Inquisition probably sells very good and EA continues with this mix.

[StElmo]

I love the gameplay feels methodical but not slow. Very very fun game. Absolutely loving the evolution of this series! I reckon you just gotta let go of sacred nostalgia when games in a series change things up. Keep an open mind peeps

[Gel214th]

so are you 100% certain that the dumbed down core features that have been thrown at us with this next iteration of dragon age AREN'T because of engine limitations? see i don't know this stuff, all i know is that the engine changed and dragon age with it, in many ways for the worse

As gamers who are deeply invested in our hobby, I guess we try to understand decisions.

 

Movie buffs probably do the same thing when they critique a movie, an actor's performance or a director's talent in a movie.

 

I think some of our issues are because of severe limitations in the Frostbite engine to support an Party based, Tactical Combat RPG. 

I think the Engine would work well for a standard First Person Shooter with incredible cinematics.

I suspect that Bioware had to rewrite and create from scratch many of the systems for DA:I. 

 

The gameplay decisions? I think that was completely based around economics.

 

The skew toward the consoles? Economics.

The removal of AI Tactics screens, Large user interface that doesn't play to the PC's resolution or past user interfaces...all those are economics to cater to consoles. You don't code two user interfaces, you code one user interface and have it meet the requirements of the lowest common deonominator: consoles.

 

Not having Move to Attack, when you do a basic attack you should run within range of the target, and then use your attack. But on consoles this isn't a problem, the idea is for combat to feel like an action title like Assassin's Creed (even though the AI and game design doesn't allow it). So that's the economics coming into play again, with where the most focus needs to be for the most profit. 

 

Multiplayer works amazingly well with the current system, because Multiplayer is One human controlling One character. 

 

The rest of what you say are core mechanic decisions that could be just that, mechanics decisions that affect the entire game and platforms equally. So you could just disagree with their decisions there. 

 

EDIT:

 

Oh, I just realised that Battlefield 4 which uses Frostbite had a lot of problems, and the developers spent a lot of time coding solutions after launch. 

 

http://www.forbes.co...efield-4-fixes/

 

http://www.ign.com/a...-in-development

 

There are tremendous cost savings to using a single game engine across all your titles, though. I mean...that is logical.

 

And they are not letting anyone else use it:

http://www.pocket-li...se-it-says-exec

 

I guess that means we won't be able to mod DA:I either :-( 

Modifié par Gel214th, 23 novembre 2014 - 01:48 .