228 réponses à ce sujet

[Slapstick83]

In my opinion, if you want to do few ability slots, you have to do alternate mode abilities. So that you have, let's say 6 abilities in total. Then you also have 2 "modes" you can go into like "offensive" or "fade magic" or what have you for each class/specializtion - that fundamentally alters how the other 6 abilities work. So let's say "Long shot" is "Fire arrow" in offensive mode and "arrow that makes enemy disappear into the fade for 3 sec" when in fade magic mode. That would give you 6x3=18 abilities, and also work well with muscle memory on a ps4 controller.

[hellbiter88]

Spirit Blade
Fade Cloak
Fade Step
Winter's Grasp
Barrier
Mind Blast
Resurgence
Mark of the Rift (dumped it in favor of Energy Barrage at level 20 something)

Is really all you need. You use the Fade Step to close distances fast. No need for long range spells.

Winter's grasp is used as a start up spell. After a battle your barrier will wear down and if you have that cool winter passive ability, you'll get a free spell.

 

Except your example is for pure melee where mine is for a mix of ranged and melee. I've found that energy barrage and static cling go very well with one another; static cling can keep enemies in one place whereas energy barrage is a total barrier-building cannon. Fire it off one time and you'll have instant max barrier, on top of doing a lot of damage. I would never keep mind blast in the same build that I have fade step, I find it unnecessary--though I suppose if you're going for pure melee then that would be a good idea. I usually just fade step out of the hotzone, freezing all surrounding enemies... then I drop a static cling and energy barrage on them for massive ranged damage.

[hellbiter88]

Another ridiculously fun combo is with a rift mage (assuming you can muster enough mana together to execute this combo) : Make sure to have a ring of static cling available to lengthen it's time. Then cast pull of the rift and static cling, immediately fire off Firestorm focused ability, and then if you have time and energy, try to lay down a fire mine. Guaranteed KO. Firestorm fully upgraded will drop 35 meteors, each meteor will electrocute the boss for 50% electric damage, pull of the rift will ensure nearby minions stay in the zone, and firemine will usually finish him off.

 

 

Trickier with dragons... getting them to stay there. This is great on pride demons though, especially if you have someone like cassandra tanking and challenging to keep the boss in the AOE.

 

Edit: Also drink a fully upgraded lyrium potion prior to this combo for sheer overkill.

[CHRrOME]

Agree that 8 slots is not enough, it's terrible. Asked about this on Twitter, they told me to make a thread in the suggestion sub forums. There's a thread there already.

I'd suggest going there and share your concerns so Bioware know that some of us don't agree with this interface design choice.

[laudable11]

Wow. I ran out of space on my ps4. I thought to myself "Damn, I bet PC players won't run into this problem. With their keyboards and all them buttons and whatnot".

[Diabolus_Musica]

You can swap around abillities until you enter combat, and even then you can run away to change them and go back.

I like how he says this like this is an acceptable way to deal with this issue.  I guess you could not play the game at all and that would solve the problem too, right?

[AlanC9]

T... I'll end up the game somewhere around level 28, with enough skill points to spend to easily reach past eight abilities, the last ones I can't use because I have no access to them in live gameplay as I can't even pause during combat and rearrange my quickslot abilities as that menu is locked during fights.

Isn't this a bit of an overstatement? You still have access to all the abilities in gameplay, just not all of them in any single fight. Or is this an argument that switching between fights is not worth doing because you have an optimal 8 abilities in the late game?

[Lintton]

I was wondering where the hell barrier went on solas...that doofus.

[elrofrost]

I hear the same complaints with The Elder Scrolls Online... Why do you need more than 8 when your stam/magicka pools are not near enough to use them all in succession? You need to learn how to set priority to your skills. Set them according to the battles you will be facing. You should have a general idea what is effective depending on the areas you are in.

Tell me, if you are playing for the first time, just how you'd know what battles you would be facing? Several zones have several different mobs to fight.

 

Also, what a major pain in the a** to have to stop and rearrange your action bar before each fight. I remind you, this is a game, not a job.

[Lintton]

I seriously didn't know this happened. It really screws with set strategies when a oft used spell gets removed on one of your partners.

[Swordfishtrombone]

I seriously didn't know this happened. It really screws with set strategies when a oft used spell gets removed on one of your partners.

 

You do know that you can pick which spells to have on the quickbar?

 

Just go to the screen with the spells, and drag and drop to the quickbar on the right side of the screen.

[CHRrOME]

Because not all spells fit all situations. It has nothing to do with what you mana pool is and to pretend it does is rather ignorant. It has to do with having the abilities you need that will work best when you are dealing with certain foes. They should all be accessible. Limited mana changes nothing. Access to everything give you access to what you need when you need it in case that's that not obvious. Most people find the set up terrible. Anyone who argues for it is missing the point. It's a crap design.

 

Switching spells is a nuisance and should not be necessary. Crap design.

 

This.

 

Why people can't understand? is not about using all skills in succession, is about having the choice to use the right ones. And with a tiny 8 slot skill bar that's impossible. 

[Kantr]

I like how he says this like this is an acceptable way to deal with this issue.  I guess you could not play the game at all and that would solve the problem too, right?

It could indeed. I didnt say it's the best solution. Just a stop-gap

[MaximumBlade]

The issue of only eight slots has nothing to do with the platforms the game was designed for. This is just poor game design. Let's go back a few years to a game like Oblivion (TESIV). You had dozens of powers to choose from. Yes, there were only eight in the quick slot radial menu, but you could go into the menu and select any power you wanted. A little incovenient, but at least you could access all your abilities. Skyrim also has a similar feature. So why can't this game?

 

I think a patch should be released ASAP, not only for PC but for all other platforms too.

[In Exile]

If limiting the PC toolbar to 8 slot is an intentional design decision, then BW have lost their marbles. As a mage I've already filled the 8 slots and have more active spells to get as part of my build.
The reasoning of "making a tactical choice" is complete BS.

Come on BW, don't screw up a perfectly superb game (which is SO close to be a classic, in the same room with Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights) with this stupid restriction. All you need to do is add more toolbars which are activated by a keyboard combo (like so many other RPGs); Shift 1 for toolbar 1, Shift 2 for toolbar 2 etc.
I'm a dev myself, I can't see how this feature would take much time at all to develop.

This is absolutely a design decision. DA2 had no ability cap on consoles. They implemented it in DSI for... reasons? It's not really all that clear why they ended up doing it. Though I can't say it's a major thing (IMO) it does weak the utility of things.

[AlexisR]

I like how you don't even get 8 ability slots. You get 7 + focus ability.

 

I mean, sure, you could just not use focus abilities but the game specifically gives you one and shows you how to use it during the main plot, so you are meant/encouraged to use a focus abilitiy at least. So regardless if you do choose to use it or not, the game wants you to.

 

Which brings us back to the fact that you are then only left with 7 slots for your actual built. I don't know whose bright idea it was to have the focus abilities take up one of the already really limiting slots, but it's kind of mindboggling.

[mkygod]

I find this to a be common and disturbing trend among western style RPGs to appeal to console gamers. Specifically RPGs coming out of Bioware and Bethesda, two of my favorite RPG game makers who used to make games exclusively for PCs. 

 

Look at some of the big name games in the past years: Obliviion, Mass Effect 3, Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas, Skyrim, and now DA:Inquisition. What do these games all have in common? they all have exactly 8 hotkeys available for abilities/weapons; presumably because that is the number of keys available on a thumpad of a console controller, or in the case of DA:inquisition, the number of face buttons on a controller times 2 using a trigger as a kind of shift button.

 

So you can see that there is a long precendence for this trend, so it should come to no surprise that this game would be the same. What amazes me is that this happens game after game and the fact that that they do make some effort into changing the PC UI layout for for most of these games, yet they don't even bother adding 2 extra hotkeys (9 and 0) as a configurable slot. I don't know if these developers are just lazy or if this has been a gross oversight across cross-platform PC RPG games for the last 8 years. And I don't really buy all this 'parity' bullcrap. If they really wanted 'parity', then could make us PC players use controllers instead of keyboards and mouse.

[MikeJW]

They could have given another 4 slots even on consoles as right on the D Pad doesnt do anything. Have L1 bring up another slot, move the current L1 ability to right on D pad. With only 8 slots they should have scrapped the elemental resistence idea at least.

[tself55]

I find this to a be common and disturbing trend among western style RPGs to appeal to console gamers. Specifically RPGs coming out of Bioware and Bethesda, two of my favorite RPG game makers who used to make games exclusively for PCs. 

 

Look at some of the big name games in the past years: Obliviion, Mass Effect 3, Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas, Skyrim, and now DA:Inquisition. What do these games all have in common? they all have exactly 8 hotkeys available for abilities/weapons; presumably because that is the number of keys available on a thumpad of a console controller, or in the case of DA:inquisition, the number of face buttons on a controller times 2 using a trigger as a kind of shift button.

 

So you can see that there is a long precendence for this trend, so it should come to no surprise that this game would be the same. What amazes me is that this happens game after game and the fact that that they do make some effort into changing the PC UI layout for for most of these games, yet they don't even bother adding 2 extra hotkeys (9 and 0) as a configurable slot. I don't know if these developers are just lazy or if this has been a gross oversight across cross-platform PC RPG games for the last 8 years. And I don't really buy all this 'parity' bullcrap. If they really wanted 'parity', then could make us PC players use controllers instead of keyboards and mouse.

Except Skyrim on consoles has all of 2 hotkeys (Left and Right D-Pad), It's only on the PC version that you get 8 hotkeys (1-8). And even then the mod support adds as many hotkeys as you can make. So no it's not always 8.

[robertthebard]

You have just proven my point. If Bioware wanted you to have a larger selection of abilities at all times, it would be easy enough to implement. As you yourself point out, it would be relatively easy for even gamepad users to select from 12+ spells.
But they did not do this.
 
I just don't see why it's so hard to believe that Bioware simply had a different design goal this time around. I feel like they wanted you to choose loadouts with the entire party in mind, not just load everything you have onto the hotbar.

 
 
My issue with this is that skill sets are not load outs. Load outs are the weapons/weapon sets you use, not the skills. They are, by definition, changeable. Skills are learned, points are invested in them, and they should be available when you want to use them. It should not be that you have to rearrange your hotbars to "know" how to use a skill that you have trained, or that you can, alternatively, game the system by setting non-equipped skills to preferred so that non controlled characters will use them anyway. The fact that you can indeed do that speaks to the fact that there was a perceived issue with this in development.

Somebody once tried to support your claim with weapon sets, stating that you had a pistol, a rifle and some grenades. You then are faced with 6 enemies, what are you going to do? I, of course, having been in the military, would pull the pin on the grenade, pop the spoon, and count 2, then throw the grenade into the crowd. This has the effect of detonating the grenade before it hits the ground, taking out more of the enemies. Here's the rub to this analogy: Despite going through Basic Training, and learning these tactics, I suddenly, faced with the same load out and scenario, no longer know how to use grenades, because they're not on my hotbar. The two terms are not interchangeable. People using them like they are, are misinformed to how that works. 
 

This whole debate reminds me of Xcom, lots of players asserting that being able to only have 1 skyranger made it "less" tactical. They wanted to be respond to everything, (ie not have to make a choice). Instead we have one skyranger and must choose 1 crisis to respond to and suffer the consequences of what not choosing the other ones leads to. The same is applicable here.

How is that, exactly? I'm not familiar with xcom, but I am familiar with the concept of learning skills in an RPG, and having them available for use on demand, based on resource availability; meaning that if I don't have the mana or stamina to use it, I can't, but it's there. DA 2 went a long way to reducing the need for melee weapons on archers, for example, something that got completely removed this time around. Why is that, exactly? Was it somehow game breaking? You see, party makeup is rewarded: There are some agents that you can't get if you don't have specific perks or party members. This is where choices should matter. Whether I can cast a spell that I have trained or not isn't. Or, I suppose, it actually is, because I should be able to use it, if I've learned it. Based purely on your analogy, the game limited you to one of a resource at a time. Skills, by and large, aren't resources. They are the things your character learns that define what type of character they are. Artificially limiting that isn't tactical.

ALTHOUGH, I do agree that some kind of "loadout" where we can quickly swap between different "loadouts" out of combat would be a nice addition. Especially in MP where your party composition and skills are much more important and are not under your control.

It would be nice in spite of MP. You see, I don't see this limitation being due to consoles/limitations of the controller alone. I see this being a limitation due to both, the limitations of the controller and MP. The radial menu for skills was removed because it paused the game. Something that you cannot allow in MP. Controller support for PC was built into this game, and if you look at the majority of the gameplay videos, you'll see they used controllers. Why? Perhaps because it's easier, or to showcase it? There's another possibility too, however; they knew if they revealed the skill bar limitations too soon, people might become upset about it, and they weren't wrong, if this was a consideration. This conversation was pretty involved after the KB/M controls were revealed.

[Lee T]

I find this to a be common and disturbing trend among western style RPGs to appeal to console gamers. Specifically RPGs coming out of Bioware and Bethesda, two of my favorite RPG game makers who used to make games exclusively for PCs. [/size]

Look at some of the big name games in the past years: Obliviion, Mass Effect 3, Fallout 3, Fallout:New Vegas, Skyrim, and now DA:Inquisition. What do these games all have in common? they all have exactly 8 hotkeys available for abilities/weapons; presumably because that is the number of keys available on a thumpad of a console controller, or in the case of DA:inquisition, the number of face buttons on a controller times 2 using a trigger as a kind of shift button.

So you can see that there is a long precendence for this trend, so it should come to no surprise that this game would be the same. What amazes me is that this happens game after game and the fact that that they do make some effort into changing the PC UI layout for for most of these games, yet they don't even bother adding 2 extra hotkeys (9 and 0) as a configurable slot. I don't know if these developers are just lazy or if this has been a gross oversight across cross-platform PC RPG games for the last 8 years. And I don't really buy all this 'parity' bullcrap. If they really wanted 'parity', then could make us PC players use controllers instead of keyboards and mouse.

The UI and slot limitations has nothing to do with consoles, it is simply poor design. Console players had access to all their skills through radial menus in DAO and DA2, this new limitations do not make sense for people playing on console either (I do not say US because playing on one platform or the other is neither a self defining characteristic nor defining of what type of gamer you are, for the record I enjoy both).

I'll add that with the newest consoles it feels even more strange. The PS4 touchpad for exemple is used in Farcry 4 as a radial menu touch interface. It's very similar to what was seen in DAO&2 except faster to use since it's a touchpad. In DA Inquisition the same touchpad is reduced to a big single button to activate Tac Cam, in a word : underwhelming.

I stopped counting the number of times I've seen a player blaming faults on his favored platform on perceived failures of the other platforms (it's because of the controller, it's because it's like a MMO, it's because the other guys are stupid, etc.) Open your horizons and you'll realise that very often the problem exist on all platforms. Developpers can and will make mistakes, they are humans like us.

Even on consoles this UI is disapointing...

(And it's probably my third post saying the exact same thing in this very thread, gosh).

[Jummix]

And the IA can use all the skills. Better leave the pg with the IA than the human control.

[bladenicholas]

I can't disagree anymore.

 

I face the same trouble and I try to find a solution, but it seem no solution and still no mod support more hotkey.