266 réponses à ce sujet

[Gilsa]

I didn't really have a compelling in-game reason to go with either side. Templars did nothing to make me want to check them out. Cassandra said the guy was acting weird. So? Needed a bigger carrot than that. Fiona was the same level of weird, but the whole Dorian and Alexius meeting in the Chantry was a much bigger carrot.

 

And honestly, I picked mages because:

 

1. I had hoped to possibly see Teagan if I helped him get his castle back.

2. Nostalgia from helping out Redcliffe back in DAO.

3. I didn't know what would happen if I turned my back on Redcliffe. In DAO, if the warden left without helping Teagan, the entire town was wiped out upon return. I just wasn't sure if history would repeat itself.

 

Now that I've done both, it's hard to say which is better. I actually do like the time travel. It's a nice change from normal gameplay. It's interesting to see how your potential love interests act under extreme duress. However, Dagna really shines on the templar side of things. Ser Barris is just all kinds of awesome and it's worth gaining a cutscene to give him a promotion in the throne room.

[Maniccc]

Mages, because Templars are basically cops addicted to drugs.  No thanks, I'll take the mages.  

[Han Shot First]

Templars.

 

Palidane's post on the previous page summed it up perfectly.

 

Also another element that had me decide to go with the Templars on that first (and canon) playthrough was that in allying with Venatori, the rebel mages betrayed the Arl who gave them shelter and protection. Arl Teagan Guerrin gave them a safe haven and Fiona & company rewarded him for it by seizing Redcliffe castle and its town. They turned on an ally and stabbed him the back the moment they heard a mere rumor of approaching Templars.

 

Both factions have bad apples but the mages come off worse in DA:I, in my opinion.

[raynbow]

I chose mages the first time because I've been pro mages since Origins. I mean I want the mages to have freedom, but after DA:2 I disliked both groups. Needless to say I went for the mages in Inquisition because it was the lesser power cost, but I've since played through again with the templars and I actually like Ser Barris way more than Fiona haha.

[Bad King]

Unfortunately for Fiona's defenders, blood magic was never raised as present or at play in the series of events. Time magic and Envy Demons indisputably are, and time magic alone is more than novel enough to cover her strange feelings. Or at least no more unusual than blood magic, for which 'convenient amnesia' and 'migrane' are also hardly standard signatures for victims.

 

Moreover, one of the most relevant testimonies about what Fiona's reasons were for making her deal is, well, Fiona. A person who consistently  claims her reasons for doing what she did were reasons other than Blood Magic, despite her having the greatest incentive to claiming that her choices weren't her own fault.

 

Fiona made a bad and hasty decision on poor intelligence and an even worse assessment of what her standing wash. She basically fell for Alexius going 'There's an army right over that hill, sign on the dotted line and I'll save you from it. Oh, what do you know, my scouts tell me that the army is now gone.' Trying to justify that with 'and if you don't sign, my other army over that other hill will attack you as well' is just compounding the error.

 

Yeah, as I admitted above, blood magic is never explicitly brought up but from a lore perspective, many Tevinter Magisters manipulate blood magic and mind control of some sort is the only explanation that make sense considering Fiona's symptoms as it is the only one of the three explanations that would physically affect her. Furthermore blood magic could have been used to varying degrees - to outright control her or to subtly influence her. Regardless, this was not the main point of my argument as I acknowledge that there is little evidence in favour or against this theory. If envy/time magic was involved then her symptoms at Redcliffe were either a red herring or due to inconsistent writing. 

 

The mages were backed into a corner - the fact that most of the mages you speak to in Redcliffe are moderates who are uncomfortable with Fiona's decision and yet still remain there speaks volumes about their chances of survival if they fled the Venatori.

[DancingDruid]

I had always assumed prior to the game's release I'd side with the mages. After completing it, however, Fiona...OMG...more later! I have no excuse considering I have read ALL the DA books.

 

Josephine warns the Inquisitor prior to selecting the mission that having Inquisition troops storm Redcliffe castle may be viewed by the king/queen/duo as an act of war, since the Inquisition is viewed, not sure why? as Orlesian. I suppose it's the sunburst throne, right and left hand connection, still. So infiltrate the castle save the mages, and wham, king/queen/duo promptly walk in and toss out the mages, banishing them for Fiona's betrayal for aligning with Tevinter. But I'll just forgive all of that and make them free allies. Good? Maybe not.

 

Why? Because the Inquisitor still has to handle a war table operation to bring in the rebels. What the F I thought they were with Fiona? This is the most hair-brained, half-arsed rebellion as Fiona doesn't even know where all of them are...Oh, I don't know Hinterlands, perhaps. No, that's right according to Corporal Vale, you've washed your hands of these mages as you, yourself, sit comfortably in Redcliffe, completely protected by the KING of Ferelden, and the ARL (until you evicted him) in a gated, walled city.

 

Then? Don't even get me started on the creepy skull-making factory near the docks right in town.

 

Then? The Arl of Recliffe demands reparations for all the damage done to Redcliffe and the surrounding Hinterlands, not by the Templars, but by the mages. Fine Cullen & co sent to sort that out.

 

Then? Fiona and her following conversations all left me with a WTF, open-jawed, huh? After Adamant, she can't believe my Inquisitor forgave the Grey Wardens... Hmmm, you offered forgiveness she said, I'm not sure I could have done that. What the F are you talking about my Inquisitor forgave everything you did and even had to send soldiers and gold to make amends.

 

Then? Alexius she said, I can't believe you let him live. What the F you signed an agreement with him in the first place placing yourself and all those following you in servitude. Don't believe anything he says she said. Uh, Fiona, signature, contract?

 

Then? An answer to the Inquisitor asking how the mages were fairing? Well we've had some scuffles with your templars. OMFG are you serious? The Inquisition offers sanctuary and you are picking fights with the templars? And what exactly are you and your mages doing on the War Table? Oh, right, NOTHING. There are no missions whatsoever. You, Fiona, Grand Enchanter are helping NO ONE but yourself. Is the library toasty enough for you? Could you at least help track down 48 copies of Hard in Hightown perhaps?

 

And, of course, to top it all off...with a new Divine Victoria, the mages are going to go to war with each other because Fiona refuses to return to circles, even self-governed ones, but prefers re-establishing the college of enchanters and the two DON'T get along apparently.

 

Rant over thank-you-ever-so-much. Templars, next time...definitely Templars.

[Ferretinabun]

Honestly I went with Mages because they made more sense, plot-wise.

 

You need troops to close the Rift. And it's not clear that Templars would necessarily be of any help in doing that. Whereas mages generally have a few tricks up their sleeves for any occassion.

 

Then, as Gilsa said above, there's no real carrot towards the Templars, whereas the Mage quest unfolds naturally and logically.

 

Finally, it didn't really occur to me that I was doing anything other than recruiting an ally. Not picking a 'winner' in the mage-templar conflict.

[ioannisdenton]

mages only because Dorian showed up and i loved that guy!!! not litereally but you get the idea!

[ThreeF]

Mages, because of carrots.

[CronoDragoon]

I chose mages the first time because Redcliffe has a natural lead-in quest before you have to commit to it. Leaving to recruit the templars at that point feels like leaving a plot thread hanging.

 

The second time I chose the Templars and honestly both missions are damn good. It's a sign of great design that I consider both to be required viewing for DA: I's story.

[Aramintai]

Played both sides, mages seemed a more natural choice for me, although with some caveats.

-First,  I believe that mages should not be jailed in Circles for hypothetical crimes and possesion possibilities. 

 

-Second, because of better involvement with the story, my canon Hawke was a mage in DA2 who defended his fellow mages against Meredith's cryziness. And judging by what was revealed in DA:I this decision has a better explanation as to why Hawke went into hiding. Siding with the templars and then being chased away by them felt like a stupid reason and just proved that they're sad lyrium addict puppets not worth siding with, not to mention it's strange that Cullen never says anything about red templars when he was still back in Kirkwall.

 

-Third, the way both missions are presented in DA:I mages mission seems more urgent if you go to Redcliffe, there's a clear threat there that cannot, in good conscience, be ignored, while nothing apparent threatens the templars. The only justified way of going for the templars is by not going to Redcliffe at all to meet Fiona, at least that way you know nothing about what's going on there.

 

-Fourth, templars mission is boring, imho, with a forgettable villain and some annoyingly creepy Fade scenes along with that creep Cole. Mages mission has interesting time travel angle, badass Leliana scenes and quirky Dorian introduction, Alexius seems like a more relatable villain as well. I believe that he's a decent tradeoff for not having Calpernia as a nemesis in a pro-mage run.

 

-Fifth, an army of Venatori amassing in Ferelden and then marching to Haven without anyone noticing seems less believable than a known quantity such as red templars who were already in the region.

 

-And lastly, a mage Inquisitor, especially Circle one, has more interesting interactions in DA:I, so being a mage and siding with mages just seems more logical.

 

As for the caveats, one thing I regret is that we cannot judge that stupid idiot Fiona, even though she was tricked by Alexius into believing that the templars were going to attack Redcliffe. Some people like to blame all mages because of just this one person, all the while they are forgetting all those high ranking templars who led the templar order into corruption and ruin, seemingly of their own free will. Too bad we can't find and judge them either.

Second, while I believe in mages freedom I also think that there should be someone who deals with actual, not hypothetical maleficars and abominations, and I'm not sure mages themseves are capable of doing that on their own. Siding with Leliana and freeing the mages gives you only the option of reforming the Seekers, who were more guilty in this whole mages vs. templars mess than anyone else, and a promising but unproven new institution such as College of Enchanters. So a better ending for this dilemma, perhaps, is to make Leliana Divine and disband the templars - this way Circles are still disbanded and mages are free, but the templars still exist and reform along with the Seekers into a joint order. Although this ending doesn't guarantee that this order won't abuse their power again in the future.

Sigh, seems like I won't have a canon ending until new installment arrives and shows what was the best outcome.

[Ona Demonie]

Mages, since it seemed like the game was pushing you towards them. The templars punch a chantry sister and stonewall you. While Fiona, leader of the mages, comes to you for help. Comparing both questlines, the Mages' feel more... fitting with the game. I'm not sure if the dialogue changes, but when Cole showed up, he said "You took his mages", which made it sound like Cory really wanted the mages, thus picking the mages is the "right" choice when it comes to foiling Cory's plans. 

[TudorWolf]

I allied with the mages first time around, as my character was a mage, but they really rub me the wrong way they go on (I won't conscript them because that feels like I'd be no better than Alexius)

 

Honestly I prefer siding with the templars since. The vast majority of the bad ones are gone, the ones who are left can become a much better order. Barris' war table missions make that abundantly clear

[keesio74]

Hey folks,

I'm struggling with this choice. Basically in my ideal world, I would go back to the old ways of having a Circle for the Mages that is protected by Templars. But with much more freedoms for the Mages and with less hostility towards them than before. I assume this means I must side with the Templars?

 

Thanks

[Ashagar]

Uncertain but Fiona certainly is unlikely to support any compromise that isn't complete mage freedom while siding with the Templars and having Cassandra as divine will see the creation of reformed circles and a reformed Templar order instead of a simple return to the old ways.

 

Furthermore if you encourage her to recreate the seekers and make them better the seekers are rededicated to protecting the innocent. That seems to me as close as you can get to a good ending that leaves protection for both mages and those without magic, eliminates corruption while allowing for some more freedoms.

[errantknight]

I chose the mages the first time because help from the templars seemed unlikely. The second time, I picked the templars because they seemed to be more dangerous, since my inquisitor went their directly from Val Royeaux without talking to Fiona. Third time, I'll do the mages again, for a Dorian romance.

 

Thing is, both are cool. In one, you get to see why you must win and it increases the urgency. In the other, you see what could happen if you DO succeed and it's pretty scary. Both are worth doing. Not done with the templar playthrough yet, so I can't compare beyoned the initial mission.

[Dahae]

I picked mages in my first playthrough but that was more because I didn't really understand how to choose the Templars, if I'd actually known how to make the choice I'd have picked the Templars. 

 

Normally when I play a mage Trevelyan I go with the Templars because I play as a pro-Circle mage. My reasoning depends on the character I'm playing as. 

 

I wish we'd had the option to do the mage quest to stop Alexius but then told Fiona to ****** off and go conscript/ally with the Templars instead. Because Alexius is clearly a threat that needs dealing with, but then you're forced to ally or conscript the mages. It would have been cool if we'd had the chance to decide after doing the Mage (or Templar) quest if we still wanted to go with them. 

[keesio74]

Uncertain but Fiona certainly is unlikely to support any compromise that isn't complete mage freedom while siding with the Templars and having Cassandra as divine will see the creation of reformed circles and a reformed Templar order instead of a simple return to the old ways.

 

Furthermore if you encourage her to recreate the seekers and make them better the seekers are rededicated to protecting the innocent. That seems to me as close as you can get to a good ending that leaves protection for both mages and those without magic, eliminates corruption while allowing for some more freedoms.

 

Interesting... I'm leaning towards the Templars....

[Korva]

Templars, as I said various times on other threads. The setup is so uneven that the game basically seems to scream "Go with the mages!", which made it hard as well as making me feel annoyed, but I stuck with my original plan and ended up very satisfied with Champions of the Just, its great introduction of Cole, and its following war table missions. In the overall conflict, no side is innocent and in fact the templars -- as the ones in power -- bear the greater blame if anything, so for me the choice wasn't about ideology but rather a simple "first playthrough: templars, second playthrough: mages". As it turns out, though, the templar content is great while Fiona's actions and attitude are reprehensible, so I can't see myself ever picking the mages because it leaves her smug, seflish ass in power. There's no way that could end well.

 

Plus, Ser Barris is one of my favourite minor NPCs. I need another templar playthrough because I didn't know it was possible to keep him alive. Lazy me didn't want to nip back to the great hall all the time, so he died.

[Aramintai]

 As it turns out, though, the templar content is great while Fiona's actions and attitude are reprehensible, so I can't see myself ever picking the mages because it leaves her smug, seflish ass in power. There's no way that could end well.

 

Plus, Ser Barris is one of my favourite minor NPCs. I need another templar playthrough because I didn't know it was possible to keep him alive. Lazy me didn't want to nip back to the great hall all the time, so he died.

Riight, judge all rebel mages by Fiona's actions even though most of them disagreed with her decision. So tell me, if there was an option to judge Fiona would you still abandon mages for the templars?

 

What's with all the Ser Barris fascination I can't even fathom. Just some minor templar puppet npc. Fiona has more interesting lore about her and, for better or worse, is Alistair's mother. Him alone being uncorrupted doesn't change my view on the templars as a whole - their commanders willingly turned to red lyrium and collaborated with Cory, even though everyone saw what happened in Kirkwall, their actions is what truly is reprehensible and deplorable. And how they all talk about how mages are dangerous because of demons, and yet it was they themselves who were corrupted by the Envy demon. A joke is on them and their order became a bad joke.  

[Ashagar]

One envy demons are pointedly one of the more dangerous and rare demons and two it wasn't him lone that was uncorrupted, the knight-vigilant was pointedly murdered likely because he was a high ranking Templar who would have seen though the envy demon and of course there was the senior Templars you go find. There are also the many Templars who are fighting as the ted Templar attack rages, remember this attempted massacre happens regardless of wither the inquisition is there or not.

 

Another thing about the mages isn't just Fiona and the Tevinter but that they allowed the tranquil in their care to be brutally and horrically murdered to make shard finding skulls as you can find out on your first visit to Redcliff.

 

As for Sir Barris he proves his worth both in the recruitment mission and war table missions.

[Aramintai]

Another thing about the mages isn't just Fiona and the Tevinter but that they allowed the tranquil in their care to be brutally and horrically murdered to make shard finding skulls as you can find out on your first visit to Redcliff.

http://dragonage.wik..._entry:_Oculara

In short, those tranquil were not in rebels care. But Venatori did stash the skulls there for Alexius.

[Beaubier]

Mages. Bioware did such a clunky job of presenting the Templar side of the deal in DA2 that I just can't ever get behind them. First impressions and all of that. Even Samson's speech at his judgement didn't make me feel like the Templars had a point so much as the Chantry realllly needed to be burned down and built up again from scratch (aka The Hardened Leliana as Divine option).

[MikaelNovasun]

I judge all the mages in redcliff by their action or lack of action in addition to Fiona. As the saying goes actions speak louder then words. They may complain about her decision but they do nothing and say something like "well my circle decided" or "the majority won the vote so I follow despite my own misgivings". One mage asks the inquisitor to reason with the mage leadership or do something on about Tervinter and nothing more. A single mage in all of redcliff that is a tranquil takes action to leave.

 

Now you could argue the Templars do that same thing, but some of them do reject the use of red lyrium and they are killed or made to "disappear". The other thing to keep in mind is that Templars are a military organization with a chain of command and they do try new types of lyrium. Most of the "grunts" that don't see the inner workings of the upper levels still trust their leaders, and the leaders that resist are killed. By the time the inquisitor shows up even the lower level Templars are questioning their orders, and the remaining leadership that resists has to be saved from elimination.

 

I tend to play Dalish inquisitors and at first I thought I would have a hard time roleplaying a dalish who sides with the Templars. But  seeing the mages choose of free mind to side with Tervinter, the very people thought to have destroyed Arlathan and enslave the entire elven race, I have no problem doing so. My dalish tend to view Fiona not just as a poor leader but a traitor to her own race. That and it just makes more sense strategically as posted by Palidane.

[keesio74]

Riight, judge all rebel mages by Fiona's actions even though most of them disagreed with her decision. So tell me, if there was an option to judge Fiona would you still abandon mages for the templars?

 

What's with all the Ser Barris fascination I can't even fathom. Just some minor templar puppet npc. Fiona has more interesting lore about her and, for better or worse, is Alistair's mother. Him alone being uncorrupted doesn't change my view on the templars as a whole - their commanders willingly turned to red lyrium and collaborated with Cory, even though everyone saw what happened in Kirkwall, their actions is what truly is reprehensible and deplorable. And how they all talk about how mages are dangerous because of demons, and yet it was they themselves who were corrupted by the Envy demon. A joke is on them and their order became a bad joke.  

 

I'm a little sympathetic to Fiona right now (before I make the choice to pick a side). She acted out in desperation and people who are desperate can be willing to resort to anything if they see it as their only option for survival. But if the Templars are not as f-ed up as they initally appears to be, and this seems the case, then I'd like to redeem them.

 

Really my ideal option is to help Fiona and the rebel mages from their current predicament of association with the Tevinter magister because they are getting manipulated. They need help, even Cassandra admits this. But I don't want to side with the rebels all the way. DA:I is forcing you to totally screw over the rebels when they are clearly being manipulated, just so you can talk to the Templars. lame.

 

Anyway I am still leaning Templar because it sounds like they can be almost fully redeemed and Anders swayed my previously pro-mage opinion to a more neutral stance.