196 réponses à ce sujet

[mkess]

I like Mages better.

 

But I like the story content of the Templar side more... as an experience in itself.

 

:S

 

 

And yeah, those damn mages. The good thing to realize is that this is just the rebel mage faction. You don't NEED to pick them to make some giant stance of 'mages forever! all mages everywhere!'

 

Unlike DAO and DA2, they're not really depicted sympathetically. But that's what happens in a revolution - those fighting for freedom will be using their freedom to do some pretty terrible things. No more sheltered Circle mages that we can weep over. (in terms of story focus)

 

 

 

As I first encountered the mages, and heard of their decision to ally with Tewinter I really thought the same thing as Varic. Aditionally I missed the Dialog option: "Ok, that's it," leading to

 

"Ok, that's it. You've done it now. You dug your own grave. Have a nice afterlife, you fools.". -> Maybe with an optional annihilating all mages on my way out of Redcliff. And yes,. of course all mages in Redcliff are guilty of treason. They could have left otherwise.

 

They not only allied themselves with Tevinter, as a direct Archenemy of the chantry,

 

No they even offended the King of Ferelden, and the Queen of Orlais and made them their enemy, too. Representing an outpost of an enemy country within the borders of Ferelden.

 

NO person with a sane mind would make that decision ever, that will lead ultimatly to instant genocide of all existing mages in the kingdoms, because now even neutral parties would shot mages on sight.

 

This could additionally lead to an all out war with the Tevinter imperium, settling things once and for all. Tevinter has already difficulties with the Quunari at their borders.

[mkess]

From a pure RPG POV, helping the Mages makes most sense if you visited Redcliffe and noticed all the weird crap going on (vs the Templars, who just seem like a bunch of pricks hiding in their fort). The sense of urgency is on the Mages.

 

Also the mage quest has more ties to DA:O (Alistar/Anora, Teagen, Connor, etc). So you get a bit of nostalgia with the mages. I actually felt bad for Connor the most when i didn't help the mages (I worked so hard to save his ass in DA:O)

 

 

In my favorite playthrough as a rogue town elf, that I am using now as base, I killed connor, and let his mother live, so that she can see the error of her ways for the rest of her miserable life. Seemed like justice to my char, who really hated nobles. I hated the mother for their retarded decisions. It was so satisfying, to knock her down.

 

Why should connor get a better fate, than anybody else who is an abomination? And the first thing, that I would have done as first enchanter, if he survived, is to make him tranquill. He obviously did not pass the test, remember?

 

Allister killed Bann Teagon in a duell. Anora is exiled, and Morrigan had a godchild. I was very pleased with me in that playthrough.

 

So I will have no problems with connor, I dealt with him already in DA:O.

[mkess]

Which is exactly why you can justify getting the Templars first.  Securing Anti-Mage warriors to fight the mages.

 

The reason I looked into the templars were RPG reasons, and very simple. After seeing the first seeker acting like a *******; I thought immediatly of pride demon possession, because Cassandra told me, he acted "out of character".

 

The second reason was, I did not know, there Redcliff even was on the map, and I never visited it. So I decided, to look into the templar matter first. And there I was, siding with the templars anihilating their order, and making them into loyal foot soldiers in the inquisition. After that; iplanned the same thing for the mages ... Didn't work out so well.

[mkess]

 I find it difficult not to side with the mages in either 2 or Inquisition. The simple fact that the right of annulment exists shows how corrupt both the Chantry and the templars are. Sure magic has the potential to be dangerous (so does science, so should we kill all the scientists just because someone invented the nuclear bomb? No of course not.), but does that give them the right to decide who lives and dies based on what a few mages have done? The templars are a corrupt organization that has (in all 3 games) shown a desire to wipe out all mages regardless of guilt or the lack thereof. In most cases only a few templars have shown any regard to a mages life. The fact that they put any mage THEY deem a threat, regardless if that mage is a blood mage or not, through the right of tranquility (which there has been a cure for for hundreds of years but they kept quiet about), shows just exactly how much respect they have for any mage. Sure in many cases the temptation to use blood magic has overwhelmed many mages but with the continued oppression of the mages by the chantry and the templars it was only a matter of time before they broke out in rebellion. Give anyone a loaded gun and apply enough pressure and they WILL use that gun if they deem it their only way out.

 

 As a role playing standpoint I understand that many people would not have access to some of that information, but since it's been going on for so many years I find it hard to believe that anyone who was not a self centered individual would not know SOME of the facts given the world state in DAI. 

 

 But so far through 4 completed games I have sided with the templars once and the mages 3 times. The templar story line is interesting but the mage story line is better IMHO. The decision does have an impact on the game, although somewhat less dramatic then one would think. So for me its more of a moral choice then an aesthetic one. 

 

On the roleplaying standpoint, they can have all the facts, and react differently with that things. It all depends one the point of view, and the origin, there the people come from.

 

Roleplay DA:O for that. Dwarves are generally unimpressed by problems of the surface world, including templars mages, and the chantry. The see demons and darkspawn as problem, and do not care, where they come from. It matters only to get rid of them.

 

Townelfes react totally differnt as daylish elves. Town elfes are handled worse than slaves -- at least slaves are vealuable, and don't starve - , and believe in the maker forced by the chantry on them. For dalish elves magic is natural. And they give a **** on bloodmages or apostates. Only templars are annoying for them, because they have to keep the magic user count low in their tribes.

 

Qunari. They have their believe, that everyone has a place in ther order, even if that means an early grave or enslavement.

 

Humans. as noble, or common folk.

 

Nobles believe in themselves, and ignore most other oppinions as irrelevant. Famiily is important.

 

Common folks try to get unharmed through life, or steal enouh to be rich someday.

 

From all this different viewpoints, you can make any decision, even if you know all facts, because for all of these backgrounds,different things are important goals for these people.

 

But if you only play yourself, with different weapons and skills, you are right. But that is not roleplaying, an these games are not made for people like that.

 

It's really fun to play games like Skyrim or Oblivion with your chars goals and motivation in mind. No  need for the main story ever.

[ghostz82]

should i choose templar or mage? anyone know the difference? or is there any information which side is better?

you can choose this on the wartable and if you had, you cant go back ...



thanks!

First off blood magic is no more evil then any other magic it's all on how each person chooses to use that magic like Solas states rightfully so in DAI. All magic can be practiced and used both for good and evil just because some mages like in tevinter chose only to use certain magic for personal gain or evil doesn't make it so or that good mages are easily corrupted and influenced into using it for evil due to lifetime of persecution and being basically forced into servitude as slaves doesn't again make that magic evil it's just that whenever they have tried to use it it was by force and not in a peaceful sense and for good. On another note some Templars are and have been evil period in both DAO and DA2 without influence of any kind while mages have done so thanks to pressure and persecution by the Templars in turn forcing their hand into being easy victims for demons to influence and use so it's not like the mages had a whole a lot of choice or free will in he matter remember a lot of times it happens out of desperation. Remember that in both dao and da2 there were examples of blood magic being used without corruption with both the heros and npcs and only until at least with npcs was until their hand was forced and they became desperate did the blood magic get out of control while with both heros it never did and you could use blood magic without being corrupted thanks to strength, knowledge,and will both heros had along with support and help from others. It's like anything education and practice is always key.

I played all three titles and saw it different then what someone posted on this topic with mages being the clear cut victims here no matter when at times it seemed otherwise normally chantry and Templars always had a hand in that mages undoing or corruption. But it's funny now when shoe is on other foot with Templars and basically red lyrium becoming to Templars what demons are to mages period it's ok and justified in someone's mind lol and their the poor victims not the mages lol seriously. The mages have faced a lot more then what Templars faced in DAI I mean they were persecuted and basically ensalved and harassed on a daily basis by Templars and everyone else while having to fight off demons and their temptations so i give mages a lot more credit then Templars that's for sure as this whole mess has to do with people just trying to become free and what they have to overcome and do in order to get there that's point your missing. I saw one post talk about tevinter like their the only bad guys here lol when what chantry and Templars already do to mages is no better and pretty much one and the same and no matter what choice they would have took they would have still been slaves but at least with tevinter they could have served their 10 year term in servitude and then had option to be free something they could never get with chantry and Templars period.

Lastly don't know if whoever posted that garbage played same game I did but Fiona was influenced, decieved , and basically forced into accepting the tevinter magister's deal through a dangerous kind of magic that allowed tevinter magister to accomplish the whole deal and set up a trap for inquisitor and if he played the game then he should know that he even used magic to trick the inquistion into coming to redcliffe and negotiate a deal same way he had deceived Fiona. Fiona even points it out afterwords the deceit and how it was all to much of coincidence with the timing and all that's happened and that she never invited inquisition so that some foul magic must have been at play. Also when you speak to one of the mages in redcliffe they point out how it's not like Fiona to have accepted or be forced into making such a deal considering conclave and all and how she wouldn't and didn't with chantry and Templars when they tried the same so why did she with tevinter and that something is wrong and odd here and asks the inquisitor to help and look into it. So either someone missed key dialogue or didn't explore all of it because the narrative and dialogue clearly proved otherwise in game.

On a final note it's also proven in game that chantry twisted some of the original scripture and writings and that magic was were never meant to only serve man nor were mages to be treated as they are or be locked up the way they have been check out lore and codex on the original inquistion and founding of chantry and see how some have corrupted what originally was meant to be for personal gain not what Andraste originally wanted and had planned for everyone including the mages even the inquisitors were meant for more then just helping form the Templars and to just to serve the chantry. Nothing is ever so black and white and even liberty and freedom always comes at a price isn't always pretty and you sometimes have to take desperate measures to accomplish what's right unfortunately same is said for mages in Dragon age.

[Ashagar]

Main characters using blood magic and not being corrupted has everything to do with gameplay and story segregation, it doesn't mean that blood magic is not naturally corruptive by its nature, any magic that is empowered by pain, suffering and death is certainly not good magic.

 

Neither side are better than the other side as both have done horrible things and consist of the extremists who didn't A. already throw in their lot with the inquisition or b. hide in their circles while the remaining templars who didn't abandon their posts guarded them.

 

Its all in how you can RP it and as noted before even as a former circle mage I could not justify in my RPing supporting the extremist mages especially after discovering the fate of the tranquil with the shack of skulls and already knowing that rebels murdered my mage's mentor and others to 'free' them.

[ghostz82]

As I first encountered the mages, and heard of their decision to ally with Tewinter I really thought the same thing as Varic. Aditionally I missed the Dialog option: "Ok, that's it," leading to

"Ok, that's it. You've done it now. You dug your own grave. Have a nice afterlife, you fools.". -> Maybe with an optional annihilating all mages on my way out of Redcliff. And yes,. of course all mages in Redcliff are guilty of treason. They could have left otherwise.

They not only allied themselves with Tevinter, as a direct Archenemy of the chantry,

No they even offended the King of Ferelden, and the Queen of Orlais and made them their enemy, too. Representing an outpost of an enemy country within the borders of Ferelden.

NO person with a sane mind would make that decision ever, that will lead ultimatly to instant genocide of all existing mages in the kingdoms, because now even neutral parties would shot mages on sight.

This could additionally lead to an all out war with the Tevinter imperium, settling things once and for all. Tevinter has already difficulties with the Quunari at their borders.

That was just Varic's initial reaction to finding out what has happened that doesn't mean it's exactly so or as simple as what he originally suspected had happened. You wil get a lot of dialogue from companions like this when they first find out about something just as when you investigate things further and find out more and that things weren't as simple or as they looked initially they will then speak to a different tune and a more forgiving and understandable tone not one of pure speculation and assumption and I tail outrage like at first. Also what are u talking about it was all the tevinter magister's doing not the mages or Fiona who clearly wasn't herself and along with everyone was decieved including the inquistion and it was the tevinter magister doing all the offending and who kicked out the Arl explore all dialogue and you quickly see how tevinter magister used powerful magic to manipulate not just everyone but time itself in order make it all possible and happen and to basically ge Fiona into joining and the inquisitor into coming to his trap too with magic he was using. Fiona herself even figures this all out and points it out to inquisitor himself during dialogue between the two you must have missed a lot of dialogue if you saw it differently she even at one point questions magister and points out his deceit and all the coindences including his timing and the invitation by someone who looked like and claimed to be her but clearly wasn't to the inquisitor himself. If you side with mages and explore all of redcliffe and the dialogue with both mages and other npcs you soon find out that there is foul magic at play behind it all and nothing is as it seems but instead all the intentional doing of a tevinter magister which I won't spoil why and Fiona somehow is not herself and others see it and point it out that she hasn't been like herself since the tevinter magister arrived and that something odd is going on in redcliffe. You verify this truth even more afterwards with further dialogue you have with Fiona something I suggest you do if you sided with the mages.

[ghostz82]

Main characters using blood magic and not being corrupted has everything to do with gameplay and story segregation, it doesn't mean that blood magic is not naturally corruptive by its nature, any magic that is empowered by pain, suffering and death is certainly not good magic.

Neither side are better than the other side as both have done horrible things and consist of the extremists who didn't A. already throw in their lot with the inquisition or b. hide in their circles while the remaining templars who didn't abandon their posts guarded them.

Its all in how you can RP it and as noted before even as a former circle mage I could not justify in my RPing supporting the extremist mages especially after discovering the fate of the tranquil with the shack of skulls and already knowing that rebels murdered my mage's mentor and others to 'free' them.

Never said it wasn't corruptive all magic is just anything can be period my point was that with education and free will anything can be accomplished and also that all magic can be used both evil and good blood magic is no different then any other magic it so, can be used for both good and bad. And it wasn't all gameplay there is narrative and dialogue that educates the heros on blood magic and it's uses and how it can be dangerous it's not like you simply start off with blood magic there are events and circumstances that lead up to and allow the heros the use of blood magic. Solas speaks on the blood magic perfectly and points put how just because some people always seem to choose to use a particular magic like blood magic always for evil doesn't mean it is and that it can't be used for good as well it's only due to the circumstance which most choose to use or pick up blood magic in first place that it tends to always not end well and lead to it being used for evil because if it wasn't frowned upon and allowed instead like other magic then you would see more people educated and care to use it for good not only pick it up out of desperation to use to overcome another evil or for personal gain only like most in tevinter do. Many in tevinter use and practice blood magic on a daily basis without ever being corrupted btw and it's because they have the freedom to hone their skill in that type of magic unfortunately they are the kind of mages that use it for personal gain and to elevate their social stasis because in tevinter power is respected just as a Viviene would use her magic to elevate hers in orlais or Morrigan did as well.

People always fear what they can't understand, control, and what is different that is why mages are treated the way they are all because of fears and propaganda and they are faster kill, lock away, and rid themselves of such before actually trying to understand and resolve it same is with blood magic it's really the the amount of power mages would have and they can wield with such magic as blood magic that others fear plain and simple not because it's evil because in everyone eyes all magic is evil to begin with and any Mage can be corrupted no matter what magic they use its the power they fear and really worry about. They could allow mages to be free and instead monitor them in another way like registration for those who want be free and live home and have the circle as an option for those who want education and to study and practice any magic safely there are always better solutions but it's fear and propaganda by those who either are scared or jealous that prevent it from happening.

Solas has some great dialogue on the subject of magic and all the common fears and what the truth of the matter actually is if people actually cared or tried to understand but most people are just to scared, blind, and quick to hate in order for them to realize it or give it enough chance to see otherwise happen because there are better solutions and mages could prove otherwise if only given chance but until now they have only been forced to do otherwise. The harassment and persecution by chantry and the Templars only makes it easier for mages to be corrupted and sometimes only forces the mages into corruption and making deals with demons instead of withstanding them that is not hard to see that or understand it had happened and bed shown throughout dragon age games many times. At same time people and mages can be good or bad and corrupted of course and so at times that's all it is I know that to but difference is normal people get to do do freely while mages don't and more often with mages it's because they have to or are forced to then not.

[DreamSever]

I did mages recently and regretted it, story flows better if you meet mages then recruit templars, mage army for cory sounded better

[Lord of War]

I did mages recently and regretted it, story flows better if you meet mages then recruit templars, mage army for cory sounded better

 

But Red Templars are way more fun to fight.

[DreamSever]

But Red Templars are way more fun to fight.

Theres lots in du lion map, i liked calpernia more and promoting barris, cant take samson seriously after DA2

[sjsharp2011]

No, the mages chose to trust Fiona who chose to ally with Tevinter, but if you talk to other mages, most thinks it's a very bad idea.

 

Then, no side is better, it influences who the new Divine is and who will ally with you, that's all.

yeah it just influences who ensd upbecoming Divine at the end of the game. I've just finished this missoin myself in my latest playthrough decided to go with the mages this time. In most of my playthroughs I've gone with the templars. In fact this is only the second time I've gone with the mages. But then I tend to go mage when I'm playing a non mage character and templar when playing a mage.

[leaguer of one]

In my favorite playthrough as a rogue town elf, that I am using now as base, I killed connor, and let his mother live, so that she can see the error of her ways for the rest of her miserable life. Seemed like justice to my char, who really hated nobles. I hated the mother for their retarded decisions. It was so satisfying, to knock her down.

Why should connor get a better fate, than anybody else who is an abomination? And the first thing, that I would have done as first enchanter, if he survived, is to make him tranquill. He obviously did not pass the test, remember?

Allister killed Bann Teagon in a duell. Anora is exiled, and Morrigan had a godchild. I was very pleased with me in that playthrough.

So I will have no problems with connor, I dealt with him already in DA:O.

1. With Conners fate, why not?
2. And his mom dies no matter what. If he dies she died giving birth to his sister.

[thepiebaker]

so there is no item or so that i cant pick up later when i choose not the mages (for example)?

for the story i'm on both sides but i dont want to miss any interesting item when i choose the "wrong" faction. you know what i mean? :]

If you side with mages you'll fight more red templars in the game: more red lyrium crafting mats for corruption runes
Side with templars you'll fight more ventori which has different drops.

There is a different story behind the elder one's second in command depending on which you choose which equates to their origin story.

If side with mages the elder ones 2nd in command is a red templar and when you kill him you get his armor (heavy)

If side with templars the 2nd in command is a mage and after killing her you get her staff

[kal_reegar]

For me Templars, of course

 

For 3 reasons:

 

1) no fuc*ing time magic and time travels

 

2) I simply can't stand Fiona, so when Vivienne burned her with a flashfire it was a moment of pure joy

 

3) Samson has less charisma than a spoon

[Cute Nug]

I did mages recently and regretted it, story flows better if you meet mages then recruit templars, mage army for cory sounded better

 

Odd DAI game logic. When you need mages to close the sky hole the only significant group of mages left in all of Thedas you can ask are the rebel mages. All other mages in Thedas apparently died of some non-rebel mage plague or were killed in the war?

 

Since rebel mages were the only sizeable group of mages left in Thedas, if you chose the templars I assume the post DAI mage circles and the mage academy have a lot of rebel mages who are willing evil Ventatori cultists bummed that their hero Corybits is gone. Weird but I like it.

[DreamSever]

Odd DAI game logic. When you need mages to close the sky hole the only significant group of mages left in all of Thedas you can ask are the rebel mages. All other mages in Thedas apparently died of some non-rebel mage plague or were killed in the war?

 

Since rebel mages were the only sizeable group of mages left in Thedas, if you chose the templars I assume the post DAI mage circles and the mage academy have a lot of rebel mages who are willing evil Ventatori cultists bummed that their hero Corybits is gone. Weird but I like it. 

You have the loyalists and surviving mages from the breach anyway. Besides the templars didnt ally with a tevinter magister, they were forced red lyrium against their will, you find this out when you send the chargers to therinfall, one of my other regrets 

[Cute Nug]

You have the loyalists and surviving mages from the breach anyway. Besides the templars didnt ally with a tevinter magister, they were forced red lyrium against their will, you find this out when you send the chargers to therinfall, one of my other regrets 

 

The logic/writing problem is that the rebel mages are poorly presented as the only group of mages you can get to close the breech. The breech is a threat to the entire world. If the rebel mages are the only group you can go to eventually does that mean most other mages in Thedas are dead or just bad story writing? 

 

As far as loyalists they are apparently so few that Vivienne can't provide any to help close the breech. Although Hasmal's circle still had loyalists that should have helped. Bad writing I guess.

 

I think the game should have addressed why at least Tevinter, Weisshaupht, Hasmal circle, and the loyalists wouldn't provide mages to close the breech. Would have been interesting if we had a choice of Tevinter and Qunari mages cooperating to close the breech.

 

However, we had the odd and, at the time, untrustworthy choice of only rebel mages or rebel templars to close the breech.

 

In the DAI worlds where the player did Champions Of The Just (choose the rebel templars to close the breech) the rebel mages by default then willingly join the Ventori and their darkspawn leader.

 

Since the rebel mages had previously been the only group of mages who could've helped close the breech, by game logic, are they are the only sizable group of mages in Thedas in DAI? If rebel mages are the only sizable group of mages in Thedas and are willing evil Venatori in games that choose Champions Of The Just then the main sizable group of mages available after the events DAI that will be the new mage circles and College of Enchanters are the Venatori rebel mages. 

 

If you choose Champions Of The Just then post DAI southern Thedas mages are mostly evil Venatori cultists in the Circle of Magi and College of Enchanters. It's not really addressed in game but if they are the only available mages at the beggining of DAI then even though they are ex-Venatori they are the majority of mages left in southern Thedas after the events of DAI (except the Hasmal circle maybe). 

 

IMO, perhaps it wasn't the best writing to have the rebel mages as the only sizable/available group of mages in Thedas in DAI. 

 

As far as templars, many do end up becoming Red Templars regardless of whether you choose mages or templars to close the breech. Many take the red lyrium because they are addicted and their leaders say it's okay. If I recall correctly some templars are smart enough to not want red lyrium and maybe they were forced to take red lyrium against their will. IMO we should have had a real side quest which showed this as it gives more depth and interest to the templars. If the chargers war table mission addressed this then it's another case where the war table missions are way better potential side quests then the boring fetch quests we got in DAI. 

 

Bioware had a lot to cover in DAI. I guess it's normal to wish for even more content then what they could realistically provide.However, I hope they learn from DAI and provide more focus on the great lore and interesting situations they have created by dropping some of the time spent on filler content found in DAI.

[Dai Grepher]

Odd DAI game logic. When you need mages to close the sky hole the only significant group of mages left in all of Thedas you can ask are the rebel mages. All other mages in Thedas apparently died of some non-rebel mage plague or were killed in the war?

 

Since rebel mages were the only sizeable group of mages left in Thedas, if you chose the templars I assume the post DAI mage circles and the mage academy have a lot of rebel mages who are willing evil Ventatori cultists bummed that their hero Corybits is gone. Weird but I like it.

 

I think the rationale was that it would take too long to contact the few remaining Circles across Thedas, and even then they would only be able to send a few mages each. The rebel mages were right there in Redcliffe, and the Inquisition still needed to stop the Mage/Templar War regardless. So it was killing two birds with one stone.

 

No, the Circles always have the loyalist mages, but I think it's understood that the mage population in southern Thedas was drastically reduced if you sided with templars. But even this is only because the rebel mages were mostly wiped out by the Venatori. Dorian confirms that most rebel mages either fled or were killed. The rest joined with the Venatori, and the Venatori themselves were comprised mostly of Tevinter mages and many soporotti, also from Tevinter.

[MissOuJ]

I've only chosen the Templars once, and I have to say I wasn't a big fan. (I don't like timed missions all that much - particularly when it looks like one of the patches mucked up Barrier so you can't protect NPCs with it anymore - sorry, Barris).

 

Also the way you meet Lucius and Fiona in Orlais always makes me feel really iffy about contacting the Templars unless I'm playing a super hard-core Chantry loyalist / mage hater since Fiona comes over to offer an alliance whereas Lucius comes over to basically punch a priest in the face (not to mention that even if Barris seems generally like a decent fellow he just stands there and watches). Plus, rebel mages include innocents who have not taken part in the fighting (children, mages who voted against secession etc.), whereas the Templars are a military order whose members have opted to follow demon-Lucius. (I mean how can you listen to what Lucius says in Val Royeaux and go "Yeah! He sounds like a level-headed kind of guy whose goals I support!". In this case I have to agree with Blackwall: You are who you choose to follow. Then again, the same could be said of the mages... but at least Fiona's decision was made under considerable stress and she had every reason to believe her people's lives were at stake.)

 

What I also like about IHW is that you spend more time fighting with a party (I hated the Fade part during CotJ), even though I am not a big fan of time travelling storylines. Then again CotJ = more Cole, whereas IHW = more Dorian, so that's a shame, since I enjoy both characters. Also, CotJ = Calpernia, who IMO is just plain better second-in-command / secondary villain than Samson is.

[Dai Grepher]

As far as templars, many do end up becoming Red Templars regardless of whether you choose mages or templars to close the breech. Many take the red lyrium because they are addicted and their leaders say it's okay. If I recall correctly some templars are smart enough to not want red lyrium and maybe they were forced to take red lyrium against their will. IMO we should have had a real side quest which showed this as it gives more depth and interest to the templars. If the chargers war table mission addressed this then it's another case where the war table missions are way better potential side quests then the boring fetch quests we got in DAI. 

 

Bioware had a lot to cover in DAI. I guess it's normal to wish for even more content then what they could realistically provide.However, I hope they learn from DAI and provide more focus on the great lore and interesting situations they have created by dropping some of the time spent on filler content found in DAI.

 

Yes, there were templars elsewhere other than Therinfal. The ones we see in Orlais were likely from such places as Emprise du Lion or hidden Venatori outposts in the area around the Western Approach. As for who would take red lyrium, that would be people who don't know what red lyrium is, like the one templar at Sulidin Keep who was able to resist the red lyrium. Also, there were weak templars like Carroll who felt betrayed by the Chantry. And like you wrote, lyrium addicts who wanted their fix. It's also possible that they were promised that the red lyrium would take their addiction away.

 

DA:I was a giant step in the right direction for the series, but there were a lot of promises made that they couldn't deliver on. BioWare needs to keep working on DLC content for Inquisition, and release the promised stuff as free, and new content at like 99¢ each through the Origin store.

[Dai Grepher]

I've only chosen the Templars once, and I have to say I wasn't a big fan. (I don't like timed missions all that much - particularly when it looks like one of the patches mucked up Barrier so you can't protect NPCs with it anymore - sorry, Barris).

 

Also the way you meet Lucius and Fiona in Orlais always makes me feel really iffy about contacting the Templars unless I'm playing a super hard-core Chantry loyalist / mage hater since Fiona comes over to offer an alliance whereas Lucius comes over to basically punch a priest in the face (not to mention that even if Barris seems generally like a decent fellow he just stands there and watches). Plus, rebel mages include innocents who have not taken part in the fighting (children, mages who voted against secession etc.), whereas the Templars are a military order whose members have opted to follow demon-Lucius. (I mean how can you listen to what Lucius says in Val Royeaux and go "Yeah! He sounds like a level-headed kind of guy whose goals I support!". In this case I have to agree with Blackwall: You are who you choose to follow. Then again, the same could be said of the mages... but at least Fiona's decision was made under considerable stress and she had every reason to believe her people's lives were at stake.)

 

What I also like about IHW is that you spend more time fighting with a party (I hated the Fade part during CotJ), even though I am not a big fan of time travelling storylines. Then again CotJ = more Cole, whereas IHW = more Dorian, so that's a shame, since I enjoy both characters. Also, CotJ = Calpernia, who IMO is just plain better second-in-command / secondary villain than Samson is.

 

I think the story with the templars is that they began to doubt Lucius after Val Royeaux, and his behavior every day after that made the templars more and more suspicious. But one day it was just too late to do anything about it. The red lyrium corruption hit them from the top down, and at a gradual pace. It just snuck up on the templars and bit them in the ass. Finoa on the other hand should have known better right from the start, and should have abandoned the Tevinter alliance as soon as the Inquisition showed up.

 

Yeah but the party is forced. You HAVE to take Dorian. And I always remember back to Mike Laidlaw's commentary about how if you want the most storyline out of this mission, be sure to take Dorian with you. As if we would have a choice. The other two party members are also forced on you in a sense. Meaning, if you pick no one else, you will automatically get Varric and Solas, I think.

 

I loved the Fade part. That was closest representation to what the Fade should be than any other part of the game or any of the other games. Besides, you get Cole as a sort of companion in that quest. Also, the level has quite a few secrets. IHW is glitchy and boring. CotJ also had attribute upgrades, and it felt like you had more ability to defeat the enemy in that quest. With IHW, you basically lose the whole game until you find a way back to the present.

 

You're right that Calpernia is better. It's also better that you can persuade her to turn on Corypheus, whereas Samson is just a blindly loyal junkie.
 

[Ashagar]

One of the things I like with the champions of the just is you can find the murdered by body of the Knight-vigilant, the head of the Templar order who survived the explosion at the conclave who got murdered because he would have been able to see though the envy demons guise which would have ruined Corypheus's attempt to corrupt the order, which is also why rest of the the leadership had to die at the conclave.

 

Even better you can use the evidence of the Knight-Vigilant murder against his murder when you put him on trial for his part in corrupting the order and watch as he is dragged kicking and screaming away if you use the tradtional punishment... apparently some things are considered worse than death.

[MissOuJ]

I think the story with the templars is that they began to doubt Lucius after Val Royeaux, and his behavior every day after that made the templars more and more suspicious. But one day it was just too late to do anything about it. The red lyrium corruption hit them from the top down, and at a gradual pace. It just snuck up on the templars and bit them in the ass. Finoa on the other hand should have known better right from the start, and should have abandoned the Tevinter alliance as soon as the Inquisition showed up.

 

... It looks to me like you're using two different measuring sticks here for Templars and mages, or am I reading you wrong? For me this reads like: Templars (probably) had doubts but didn't act on them fast enough = not their fault vs Fiona (probably) had doubts but didn't act on them fast enough = her fault? At the very least, Fiona was a victim of betrayal (Venatori in the ranks) and circumstance (Templars at the gates) at least as much as the Templars.

 

Also, when demon-Lucius comes to VR, he tells the people there the Templars "failed no-one then they left the Chantry to purge the mages" (yes, that ad verbatim what he says - and let's not beat around the bush here: he's talking about genocide) after one of his mooks punches a priest in the face while he doesn't bat an eyelash - and even after this Templars (including Barris) follow him to Therinfal Redoubt. That kinda balances the scale quite heavily in favour of the mages for me. Not saying there are not decent people kicking around in the Templar order - or that they wouldn't have eventually come to their senses - but if I have to choose between these two groups, I'd rather choose the group whose leader made a bad decision out of desperate need to save her people over a group who didn't leave although they absolutely could have (and possibly were offered an option to leave, if you choose the "Templars! Join as Cullen did!" -dialogue option) without any immediate repercussions (although the lyrium withdrawal is a pretty major thing - ugh, Chantry sucks) - mages never really had that option without risking either their freedom and/or their lives.

 

Also, story-wise I think IHW is more urgent IMO - Redcliffe is closer to the Inquisition's base of operations than Therinfal is, and having Redcliffe fall under enemy control is Very Not Good (as Leliana points out) - not to mention the whole time magic thing. In contrast, we have "something weird is going on in that way direction - maybe" doesn't feel so urgent / time-critical to me at that point in the game. And when it comes to gameplay differences, different strokes for different folks. I am in general not a big fan of Fade (although I really liked the Fade-portion of Here Lies the Abyss) so CotJ doesn't exactly endear itself to me, although I really liked the first introduction with the advisers. But the rest of it... just not something I enjoy, particularly since I have to trudge through most of it all in my lonesome. Plus, I thought that even though I usually loathe time travel storylines, having the Envy demon outright show you its plans in the Fade felt even more ridiculous. It's like the ultimate Villainous Plan Reveal Monologue - at least in IHW people know about Cory's plans because that's what happened. But again, I guess that's a matter of taste which not-all-that-great plot devices you like most / dislike least.

[DreamSever]

... It looks to me like you're using two different measuring sticks here for Templars and mages, or am I reading you wrong? For me this reads like: Templars (probably) had doubts but didn't act on them fast enough = not their fault vs Fiona (probably) had doubts but didn't act on them fast enough = her fault? At the very least, Fiona was a victim of betrayal (Venatori in the ranks) and circumstance (Templars at the gates) at least as much as the Templars.

 

Also, when demon-Lucius comes to VR, he tells the people there the Templars "failed no-one then they left the Chantry to purge the mages" (yes, that ad verbatim what he says - and let's not beat around the bush here: he's talking about genocide) after one of his mooks punches a priest in the face while he doesn't bat an eyelash - and even after this Templars (including Barris) follow him to Therinfal Redoubt. That kinda balances the scale quite heavily in favour of the mages for me. Not saying there are not decent people kicking around in the Templar order - or that they wouldn't have eventually come to their senses - but if I have to choose between these two groups, I'd rather choose the group whose leader made a bad decision out of desperate need to save her people over a group who didn't leave although they absolutely could have (and possibly were offered an option to leave, if you choose the "Templars! Join as Cullen did!" -dialogue option) without any immediate repercussions (although the lyrium withdrawal is a pretty major thing - ugh, Chantry sucks) - mages never really had that option without risking either their freedom and/or their lives.

 

Also, story-wise I think IHW is more urgent IMO - Redcliffe is closer to the Inquisition's base of operations than Therinfal is, and having Redcliffe fall under enemy control is Very Not Good (as Leliana points out) - not to mention the whole time magic thing. In contrast, we have "something weird is going on in that way direction - maybe" doesn't feel so urgent / time-critical to me at that point in the game. And when it comes to gameplay differences, different strokes for different folks. I am in general not a big fan of Fade (although I really liked the Fade-portion of Here Lies the Abyss) so CotJ doesn't exactly endear itself to me, although I really liked the first introduction with the advisers. But the rest of it... just not something I enjoy, particularly since I have to trudge through most of it all in my lonesome. Plus, I thought that even though I usually loathe time travel storylines, having the Envy demon outright show you its plans in the Fade felt even more ridiculous. It's like the ultimate Villainous Plan Reveal Monologue - at least in IHW people know about Cory's plans because that's what happened. But again, I guess that's a matter of taste which not-all-that-great plot devices you like most / dislike least.

Hushed whispers gets dealt with anyway with alistairs forces, and alexius gets killed off because the inquisitor no shows his time trap