113 réponses à ce sujet

[LEXX]

Most of these problems would probably all been solve if this game was MODDABLE.

[DAOfanado]

I think we should all agree on one thing, the perfect all encompassing RPG with realistic AI hasn't been invented yet, so we should make the most of what we've got otherwise we easily convince ourselves into disappointment.

 

Nobody even expects this. But static mannequin NPCs are simply not enough. Combined with a missing physics engine the world just doesnt feel real to me. It is not gamebreaking but it is immersion-breaking.

 

 

 

If I didn't know any better I would say that the OP is desperately grapsing at straws. 

 

There is a big beautiful and diverse forest (DAI) and we are arguing whether a bunch of trees here and there have a few dead leaves. Yes some issuescould be handled in a better manner but  all in all THIS IS the best game bioware has made so far. And most importantly the dragon age game I 've always wanted to play.

 

 

I believe the OP is reaching by declaring the above as "gamebreaking". 

Also it does seem that this is a well presented PR hating thread.

 

 

Getting back to it. Still at haven.

 

 

Great landscapes and nice art simply dont compensate for complete lack of interaction. For me this is a huge issue. Not a small one. The thing most important for me in RPGs is immersion. What good is the great landscape if most of the time you run arround planting flags while beeing blocked by Stone-NPCs?

 

That this is the best game bioware has made for you just shows that we have a completely different taste in games. Which isnt a bad thing - the problem is to me it seems that every single company is catering to people like you. This is especially frustrating since i loved DA:O - which then was also catered to people like you.

 

I cant even understand how it is not a problem for you that there are magic flashmobs after certain events glued to the floor - not moving at all. Or NPCs in the wild with no interactdion whatsoever. The first thing i do when i see an NPC in the forests - is trying to talk to the NPC or interacdt with it. In DA:I i go there it wont do anything it seems as if its a mannequin. Its even more frustrating when it will actually block your way. Many of those NPCs in DAI could be replaced by rocks ...

 

This is just awful for roleplaying ...

 

 

@LEXX

Yeah but sadly i doubt any real mods will be made for DA:I. With no modding tools and an engine that seems to be rather anti-modding.

[DAOfanado]

Just found a video that explains perfectly what is wrong with DA:I from my point of view:

 

This is not an exception - this is pretty much the standard interaction problem:

(these things kill immersion for me - and they would be so easy to fix ...)

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuqP_0XFjf8#t=3m22s

[Fedi.St]

DAO has similar issues in all those things you mentioned.

 

You value real world(ambient) interaction in your games I get it.

In that area bioware didn't bother doing this. They developed everything else though.

There are soooo many other aspects of the game which puts it at the top of my list this year.  I'll make a review once I have finished the game.

 

On another note it is obvious you like witcher series. I like them too. you should be in their payroll if you are not. you are doing excellent pr job for them.

 

BIOWARE though are  EXPERTS in creating a connection between the players and characters. better than anyone. this is what I'm going for.

 

So yes not a game breaking experience

[DAOfanado]

DAO has similar issues in all those things you mentioned.

 

You value real world(ambient) interaction in your games I get it.

In that area bioware didn't bother doing this. They developed everything else though.

There are soooo many other aspects of the game which puts it at the top of my list this year.  I'll make a review once I have finished the game.

 

On another note it is obvious you like witcher series. I like them too. you should be in their payroll if you are not. you are doing excellent pr job for them.

 

BIOWARE though are  EXPERTS in creating a connection between the players and characters. better than anyone. this is what I'm going for.

 

So yes not a game breaking experience

 

Yes but DAO was a different kind of game. WIth a smaller world with more general interaction most of those problems are way less obvious.

 

Actually thats only partially true. I really enjoyed The Witcher 2 - but i stopped playing Witcher 1 after about 15 minutes.

 

Well i just tell people of games i think made certain things good. Another game i really enjoyed : Divinity : Original Sin - a game where you can feel the "soul of the game". It just feels as if its beeing made by people with passion. While Bioware starts to feel like a mass production product scientifically catered to certain groups of gamers.

 

Charakter interaction is lacking from my point of view aswell - interacting with companions is way to limited - while the interaction itself is good.

[Fedi.St]

Lacking in what way?

 

 

ah , something else I wanted to comment is the alien thing.

 

Is not awful nor irrelevant. It's a musical theme combining mystery/terror completely unknown alien. Corypheus and the whole setting on the game implies that the truth outside chantry truth is completely different non-understandable and irrevelant(alien). ITS THE PERFECT theme for this mixture of feelings.

 

maybe they could come up with something better? Always. but it is more than enough what they already have.

not a game breaker. 

I really want to hear what game you might have played combining all the positive elements bioware brings forth, with what you said in OP. Pretty much it would be the game of the century my friend.

[Lee T]

the UI is ugly and looks completely out of place it looks like a SciFi-UI[/*]
[*]the Inventory is bad aswell it looks exactly like the awful Skyrim Design - which is great for consoles - but completley sucks for PC

Guess what ? When something is unpractical on PC it's often unpractical on Consoles too. People who plays mostly on one platform tend to think that when something is bad in the game is because it was develloped for the other platform, well no, it's more often because it's simply bad.

Skyrim's inventory UI is in no way great for consoles.

[kjeld111]

• there is no Companion-Interaction besides fixed interactions?!  

The fact that your companions are mostly silent and only infrequently banter in the field is actually a (nasty) bug that seems to be affecting quite a lot of people and not others - thus, it is not surprising to see that level of disagreement in this discussion. Companions are supposed to be chatty with frequent party banter (according to players not affected by the bug, there is even party banter that your character can actually partcipate in).

 

http://forum.bioware...re-in-the-news/

[Linkenski]

I agree with everything but the romance part. There's still laughs to be had when DAI has Dating-simulator syndrome. Look at KOTOR 2 or even your own KOTOR 1 to see how well romances worked withing the context of the plot.

But I really like the fact that none of the females look overly sexy or ideal. All the romances are good IMO because you focus on the Romanceable character as the person they are, and not by how they look.

I romanced Cassandra and it's one of the most heartwarming and sweetest things I've seen at times. I only wished it would've kept its relevance within the plot. Earlier on in the game you'll see Cassandra by your side a lot more per default, and I had hoped that she would've kept that role as an integral supporting character like Isabela or Varric in DA2.

[Medhia_Nox]

@DAOFanado:   So, that video's critique is:

 

1)  Not enough looting of random houses

2)  Not being able to use background graphics (to sharpen swords evidently).

3) Not being able to click on every peasant for a repeatable line (like EVERY crpg that gives random nobodies dialogue)

4)  Reading (oh, that horrible reading!)

and of course...

 

5) "Bad writing" (the nebulous critique by everyone who's major contribute could only ever be "worse writing")

 

Disliking or hating the game is one thing... but these critiques are just opinions.  Not based on anything more than personal preference.  The ONLY one I find worth considering is.

 

6) Pacing.  He thinks things move too fast in the declaration of the Inquisition.  I disagree - but that's something that can actually be discussed. 

[DAOfanado]

@DAOFanado:   So, that video's critique is:

 

1)  Not enough looting of random houses

2)  Not being able to use background graphics (to sharpen swords evidently).

3) Not being able to click on every peasant for a repeatable line (like EVERY crpg that gives random nobodies dialogue)

4)  Reading (oh, that horrible reading!)

and of course...

 

5) "Bad writing" (the nebulous critique by everyone who's major contribute could only ever be "worse writing")

 

Disliking or hating the game is one thing... but these critiques are just opinions.  Not based on anything more than personal preference.  The ONLY one I find worth considering is.

 

6) Pacing.  He thinks things move too fast in the declaration of the Inquisition.  I disagree - but that's something that can actually be discussed. 

 

My mistake - i should have made it clearer that i only meant the 10-20 seconds of the deep-link i posted.

 

I think the videos are more of a parody anyhow. The thing i was talking about was the part where the player doesnt do what he is supposed to do in the game and realizes instantly that the game does not care for that. NPCs just show you their back while talking about you - standing still - player unable to move trough etc.

 

Maybe thats the main problem why many people dont seem to get why its such a big deal for me. The Playstyle. I am somewhat of an "explorer" in games. I think DAI is a way "better" game for somebody who sticks with the "main script".

 

So its 100% about not beeing able to click on every charackter - its about feeling out of place should you not stick to the "main script". Running arround in a forest - seeing an NPC - moving up to him wondering what he has to say - realizing its just a Stone-NPC is just bad for immersion.

 

I also dont get the motivation behind running arround to random spots on the map to plant magic-flags? It feels more like work and not like quests. They could have easily made that task into interresting quests with real RPG elements - not Capture the Flag combined with territory control ...

 

But on the reading:

- I dont dislike reading - but what i do dislike is the lackluster presentation of texts in the game

 

Thing is - from my point of view from the point of going open world - Bioware had to change the way they make games because you cant simply put DAO mechanics in an open world.

 

 

After watching the AngryJoe Review i actually tried to play it again - but i simply get bored within minutes. I think i will wait at least until the combat-controls are patched. I already dislike the game for the aspects mentioned above - but then combined with the awful tactical camera i just "ragequit". (i do realize that there is a nice story and world beyond the problems - but im just having a hard time to ignore all the aspects i dislike)

Is it me or is there no real way to keep mages and archers etc. within a reasonable distance of the enemy - they always seem to rush in ...

 

From my point of view DAI could have been a great game - but as it is its just medicore. Feels a bit like the new Far-Cry-Games they have lots of content but still feel as if they lack something. If i had known that combat would be so meh - i would have just said - **** tactical combat - make it a hack and slash (i also enjoy those even tough i would have enjoyed a group-tactical-rpg more)

 

 

 

 

Guess what ? When something is unpractical on PC it's often unpractical on Consoles too. People who plays mostly on one platform tend to think that when something is bad in the game is because it was develloped for the other platform, well no, it's more often because it's simply bad.

Skyrim's inventory UI is in no way great for consoles.

 

I figured a classical RPG-Inventory with a huge backpack and countless Items would be way worse for consoles - which is why i thought list-inventories would be better? (i do realize games like ni no kuni etc. also have backpacks - but there is just never the ammount of items that most "west-rpgs" have)

[Lebanese Dude]

"It feels like it lacks something" ... What a BS argument.

Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved in one way or another.
There's bound to be something missing to make it a perfect experience.
Good luck getting a game to get to that point within a reasonable development cycle.

Instead of complaining about what's missing, look at what's present, especially in a game.

Another example of how mods have spoiled people.

[SpiritSharD93]

If they really wanted to change things up based on Skyrim, they could have actually done what Skyrim does in the first place. Main quests, side quests, misc quests.

 

In this game it feels like we get Main quests and Misc quests. All they needed to do was flesh out some of the misc quests to be more lengthy, with added depth and complexity, similar to those in Origins. Then there would have been a balance and people would be happier, I think.

[DAOfanado]

"It feels like it lacks something" ... What a BS argument.

Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved in one way or another.
There's bound to be something missing to make it a perfect experience.
Good luck getting a game to get to that point within a reasonable development cycle.

Instead of complaining about what's missing, look at what's present, especially in a game.

Another example of how mods have spoiled people.

 

How is it a "BS argument" when i explain exactly what i meant? The kind of generic feel due to the lack of interaction? Its interresting that you call my argument a "BS Argument" when you are not even trying to make an argumnet? Your just another fanboy calling everything that doesnt agree with him names ...

(Which is kind of amusing since the fanboys Bioware has now are probably a completely different group of people than before)

 

Still my point stands - so it would have been such a huge task to give random NPCs even the most simple interaction or at least make them react to the player (move out of the way if bumped into etc?)
 

Yeah and what is present cant make up for what is missing for me. But i do understand that its still a nice game for someone not actually into RPGs but into general Mass-Effect > 2 kind of adventure games.

 

Also the things i talked about are pretty much open-world standard since years ...

 

The main problem with casual games is - that they are fun - but it sucks when every single developer tries to make such a game and merely some indies do something else. This is especially frustrating when its a company that was well known for great games - which then all of a sudden makes completely different games.

 

 

If they really wanted to change things up based on Skyrim, they could have actually done what Skyrim does in the first place. Main quests, side quests, misc quests.

 

In this game it feels like we get Main quests and Misc quests. All they needed to do was flesh out some of the misc quests to be more lengthy, with added depth and complexity, similar to those in Origins. Then there would have been a balance and people would be happier, I think.

 

Yeah thats the problem. A mixture between DAI and Skyrim would be ideal. Skyrim completely fails when it comes to story - DAI has a huge world that just doesnt feel interactive and is kind of empty. (even though skyrim combat was lacking aswell)

 

Mods could probably have made DAI a pretty much perfect game.

[RUDAL]

@OP

 

Agree as well.

Im not sure about this "dead world" cause I only done few quests in Hinterlands but the rest is as you described.

 

About that chests and other objects that we can't interact with.

Any one remember Neverinter Nights? A BioWare game as well. You could open every single crate, chest or barrel in that game.

Well, characters maybe didn't have their daily routines but the times were a bit different then and systems they were running on were a bit less capable.

[BammBamm]

@OP

 

Agree as well.

Im not sure about this "dead world" cause I only done few quests in Hinterlands but the rest is as you described.

 

About that chests and other objects that we can't interact with.

Any one remember Neverinter Nights? A BioWare game as well. You could open every single crate, chest or barrel in that game.

Well, characters maybe didn't have their daily routines but the times were a bit different then and systems they were running on were a bit less capable.

 

and baldurs gate didnt had it and is still one of the best rpgs ever.

[Raven1Fist]

The only problems I am having with the world are:

Your companions are a bit dumb, they won't move out of the way when you need them too. They bunch up on each other, and often when you go into a cave or dungeon they just stand at the door watching you beat the crud out of the enemies. Sometimes you can run almost a whole dungeon without them and only when it looks really bad for you do they turn up. 

 

When you fast travel to camp sites, your companions 'fall' out of the sky beside you. 

The game world though is quite immersive, and feels real. The only problem I have with it is the, jump function. My character jumps way better in cut scenes than I can in game.

[Savvie]

I do think the balance of trying to do story with large open areas was not balanced quite right. This is Bioware's first time doing such large, expansive areas for an RPG and trying to figure out how to make those areas feel alive with NPCs and quests. This was definitely an experimentation for them that didn't work out quite so well. Because so much emphasis was put on exploration and side quests, the main quests and companions felt less developed. You look at DA:O which was much smaller, compact areas and very linear and the story thrived really well in this setup. I think this is one reason why they chose not to do a full open world because it would take away too much from the main story.

 

Hopefully with all the constructive and useful feedback Bioware receives, they can rethink how to better handle this type of concept for their next DA game if there ends up being one.

[Lee T]

I figured a classical RPG-Inventory with a huge backpack and countless Items would be way worse for consoles - which is why i thought list-inventories would be better? (i do realize games like ni no kuni etc. also have backpacks - but there is just never the ammount of items that most "west-rpgs" have)

Huge backpack and countless seems more as a MMO thing to me. Most RPGs I played on PC had a restricted inventory a la Diablo. Which would work perfectly on console too (the last deus ex had that and it was fine to use on console). Endless lists are "practical" but not very ergonomic because sifting through with a the controller takes tiiiiiiiiimmmmmmme :-) (I hope they at least gave PC UI scrolling bars to use with the mouse). Skyrim's sin is that the button layout change wheter you're looking in your pack or in a storage. This can lead to accidentaly emptying a storage in your pack and then have fun in your pack's multiple lists to find all the stuff you took out you didn't want.

Dragon Age Origins wasn't very good on console either, new item were highlighted untill you selected them, however the window would only let you see the first items in alphabetical order. To go down the window you had to select the last visible item and push the stick down selecting the next item to make it visible. Put 2 and 2 together and you realise the only way to see an item down the list is to select it canceling the "new" highlight before you even got a chance to seeing it. Bravo whoever had that idea :-) .

The worst has been Mass Effect, countless specialised windows, and a very limited inventory with no storage forcing you to sell or destroy stuff very often. Plus going to a store was generally a loading screen fiesta (one of the god thing in ME3 was the one console to order from every store you previously visited, it took three games for Shepard to use the internet :-) )And you had to go through that because ecerytime you found new items the system automatically put them in your pack, except when you had no place. If you only had one free slot and you found three items. The system prompted you to destroy right now two of these items, you couldn't take the time to make space in your inventory, the items were destroyed right here right now (and you had no way to know if the chest contained interesting items beforehand). That was incredib'y frustrating.

[robmokron]

All i can say is that if NPCs reacted to comabt around them, or the player (not just standing still) it would be nice. But Dragon Age has NEVER had NPCs that react. So.. its not that upsetting. Game rocks. Period

[DAOfanado]

All i can say is that if NPCs reacted to comabt around them, or the player (not just standing still) it would be nice. But Dragon Age has NEVER had NPCs that react. So.. its not that upsetting. Game rocks. Period

 

Dragon Age wasnt an Open-World RPG before. Thats the issue. Different games - different standards.

 

And thats the thing - its probably less upsetting for you since you seem sto play more the way the game means you too. If you dont explore and do pretty much exactly what you are supposed to do by the game the NPCs will be less of a problem.

 

For example at the beginning - if you dont stray off - the npcs wont feel out of place because you just see them for a sh ort period of time.

[Samahl na Revas]

So basically some people want GTA added into dragon age too now that it already followed skyrim? I'm referring to npc's going about there daily lives seemingly lively. Skyrim did a bit of that too with npc scripts where certain npc would walk around a village doing something and could be found in a bar at night. Witcher is another one that did a bit of that I recall. However, npc scripting has it's limits plus I imagine it would tax memory and lead to more load times...

 

I for one don't care if the next Dragon age adds npc scripting, plus not sure how  next-gen consoles would handle it memory wise. Of course pc would be fine.

 

Anyhow, one point I disagree with is that full out tatical almost turn based combat idea. What the? It wouldn't be Dragon age going that route at least not on consoles, and I only play Dragon age on consoles.

 

If I would cut something out of the next dragon age so that all 3 system (I hope this is the last DA for old gen...) could be optimized better with small unique features it would be multiplayer. Multiplayer imo is terrible, mass effect multiplayer was very good imo. 

[Ultim Asari]

Do go on about how fantasy females should have long flowing hair that would obviously get in the way of battle... this isn't Middle Earth my friend.

[Kantr]

I'll tell you what a cardboard world was.

 

DA:O in DA:I npc's in the background around skyhold comment on whats happened so far. They don't do that in Origins

[Selea]

1) What does fighting, UI, loot system and romance have to do with "cardboard world" (the premise of your post, that is a very specific thing: i.e. the interaction with the background as NPCs, objects etc.) is beyond me. You naturally added them just to try to sound convincing as you had nothing of important.

2) The most fun part is that you call yourself "DAOfan" as if in DA:O you could interact with all objects and NPCs instead (maybe you have mistaken DA:O for Ultima, who knows). Oh well...

I don't either bore to reply to your points one for one given the obvious lack of a real meaning behind the formal complain. As it is always the case whinings always begin with "I don't like this aspect" very marginally and then it immediately turns into an UI, control scheme, loop radar "bashing" also if these things have absolutely nothing to do with the former argument. This alone reveals much too well the real lack of points to address.

It's always the same three things over and over: UI, control scheme and loop radar and they have been addressed already a thousand times in all the threads here (even if you agree with them, which I don't: I sincerely think that many that complain with the control scheme have played the game for just 1 hour because apart some evident things not working correctly the combat works very well and many people, me included, are enjoying it). When you have people that complain that 12 potions are not enough between camps in normal difficulty and then those same people are the ones that complain about the combat scheme you already understand everything...

Reply to other threads that address those issues and don't start another thread that talks of exactly the same things masking it for something different. It's childish.