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[Ssekyr1]

. From Rivain to Tevinter, the lands of the north seem a tad more interesting and fascinating then the southern lands.

 

I quite look forward to Rivain. It's completely different from any Chantry touched lands, be they the South or Tevinter.

[Ssekyr1]

 I'm wondering: what did you expect from the game, or what would have been satisfying to you.?

 

The game delivered so far as mechanics and decent writing. I was simply hoping for more than two scenes with Briala, being able to do more for her than empower her behind Gaspard. Perhaps getting to see Halamshiral, more than just the Winter Palace, and seeing the changes her newly earned nobility was causing there. I was hoping there'd be more material elven involvement, as two quest zones were in the Dales (discounting the plot zone of Arbor Wilds here), and we meet a single Dalish clan totaling five-six members. Sure, you can recruit one as an agent, but what else? Solas is the sole elven character, aside from the Inquisitor, should you choose that. It felt as if they were stressing their lore, without them being present. It also felt like, in the midst of all the 'evils' magic was bringing to Thedas, they wanted you to equate it's origins with ancient elven practice. Namely, the Temple of Dirthamen and various codex entries. I was hoping for more recognition as what I was, short of some sneers at the Winter Palace and disdain from Corypheus.

[Apo]

I actually enjoyed playing as an Elf a great deal, with the notable exception of the Temple of Mythal where it felt the game completely forgot what race I was, and where my Inquisitor came from in order to spout exposition. Yes, I know Solas has been pounding it into her head that she doesn't know the whole story and I'm more than fine with that, but she shouldn't be asking 'who was Mythal' when even if she doesn't know the particulars she's been worshiping the damn goddess and the rest of the pantheon since she was in nappies.

 

I haven't played DA:I yet, but from what I remember in Origins and especially the dalish warden origin, your character does'nt know much of elven gods and pantheon, you can sometime express your faith in the Creators but you don't know their whole story, Tamlen explains to you some of them but not entirely, it seems that only the elder elves (keeper, hahren) knows about elven gods and history, our characters are just teenagers hunters.

So from what you're saying about knowledge doesn't bother me much but is curious enough to learn (just like my dalish warden)

 

Also, i'm hoping that someday my dalish warden can meet my (future) dalish inquisitor and they can share some battle stories and elven knowledge

[lastpawn]

I believe this is because Hawke was originally intended to be the central character of this game as well. They were wanting to create their own "Shepard", a more recognizable character that could be used across multiple sequels. Because of the backlash DAII received, they decided to distance themselves from Hawke, but still used the same general story layout. That's why they had to start the game with a conveniently timed magical terrorist attack that gave this one random person tons of influence and power.

 

I'm also playing a Dalish elf, and I understand where you're coming from. There area few moments that really feel authentic to the Dalish experience, but those are somewhat few and far between.

 

You know, you just made things a lot clearer for me. 

 

The game is done well enough that any race "works" for the main storyline, but what you're saying seems about right.

[Nyaore]

I haven't played DA:I yet, but from what I remember in Origins and especially the dalish warden origin, your character does'nt know much of elven gods and pantheon, you can sometime express your faith in the Creators but you don't know their whole story, Tamlen explains to you some of them but not entirely, it seems that only the elder elves (keeper, hahren) knows about elven gods and history, our characters are just teenagers hunters.

So from what you're saying about knowledge doesn't bother me much but is curious enough to learn (just like my dalish warden)

 

Also, i'm hoping that someday my dalish warden can meet my (future) dalish inquisitor and they can share some battle stories and elven knowledge

My Lavellan was Second to her Keeper, which is what happens if you play a mage, she'd have been taught the old ways along with the First given the nature of her eventual status within the clan. That and the Dalish - mage or not - invoke both Mythal and the other gods, with a few exceptions, on many occasions throughout the games. Their memories of their culture are very important to them, so I see no reason why the legends would not be shared. Perhaps not the less desirable lore they discover over the years, but the basics most definitely. The way it was presented made it sound like she had no idea who Mythal was in spite of that fact, rather than someone who accepted she knew very little and wanted to know more. I don't know, I wish the was an option to say 'this is how the Dalish know Mythal' and then have the exposition prove us wrong. 

[Patchwork]

You know, you just made things a lot clearer for me. 

 

The game is done well enough that any race "works" for the main storyline, but what you're saying seems about right.

 

Hawke was never going to be the protagonist of DA3, there was an Exalted March expansion in the works but that was scrapped due to DA2's low sales. DAI was given more development time so BW was able to add other races for the pc and more romances.  

[kinderschlager]

Well, then why release the product? Simply delay it longer, imo. They promised four races over a year ago, I'd think they'd have enough time to write in those races. I imagine it's the same story for Dwarves and Qunari. Regardless, it's probably beneficial that you're not emotionally invested in the franchise. Otherwise, I'd emphatically recommend a reroll.

 currently playing a quanari second time through, same story as with an elf inquisitor, completly ignored. this game is written to focus on a human perspective, the rest of the races are just fluff

[staindgrey]

Well, then why release the product? Simply delay it longer, imo. They promised four races over a year ago, I'd think they'd have enough time to write in those races. I imagine it's the same story for Dwarves and Qunari. Regardless, it's probably beneficial that you're not emotionally invested in the franchise. Otherwise, I'd emphatically recommend a reroll.

It was delayed longer. And the "Exalted March" DLC planned for DAII was scrapped in favor of bringing those staff members over to begin work on Inquisition sooner than expected.

 

What I meant by my post wasn't "they changed it from Hawke last minute". It was that the original plan for Inquisition-- which began inital development before DAII was completed-- was to have Hawke as the main character. While that changed, many of the key aspects of the story-- which didn't take into account the fact that you may not be a human noble-- had to remain unless they were willing to start fresh with a rewrite. By that stage in the game, I'm guessing a startover wasn't in the cards, considering EA's investment.

 

There's still plenty of referencing to my Inquisitor being an elf, or being Dalish. It's enjoyable, and honestly, really not any less than my elf Warden received. I think we just notice it more because we now have a voiced protagonist, and when she says things that sound distinctively human, it's jarring.

 

When I went to the Emerald Graves, it bothered me how many times she referred to the people there as "the elves". Dalish don't say that. Humans say that. You don't see Hawke go out into the Wounded Coast and talk about "the humans" there.

[Kirikou]

As others have said.

 

The game was originally supposed to come out last year, back then they had only planned for their to be a human protagonist. The extra year they get allowed them to include the Solas and Cullen romance and the 3 other races.

[staindgrey]

Hawke was never going to be the protagonist of DA3, there was an Exalted March expansion in the works but that was scrapped due to DA2's low sales. DAI was given more development time so BW was able to add other races for the pc and more romances.  

While I cannot prove my case, the past few years of media releases, the subtext therein, the game's story and a few doses of common sense lead me to believe wholeheartedly that Hawke was intended to be the protagonist of DA:I, as well as possibly further games afterward.

 

DAII was not a complete story. It was the start of a greater story, one they hoped to expand upon outside of Kirkwall on the new DICE engine, which was far more capable of grand landscapes than their homebrewed one used in DA:O and DAII. It's been confirmed that DA:I began initial planning and development significantly before DAII was released, and unlike DA:O and DA:I, Hawke was the only character with an "image" that could be marketed. Hawke was DA's Shepard alternative.

 

Shepard had a canonical face, a recognizable logo (N7/red striped arm on armor) and a consistent voice actor. Hawke had those as well, while the Warden did not. While Hawke's story couldn't involve the Warden as the main character because of how the plot is structured, Hawke could be in the Inquisitor's place with minimal effort: send her/him into the conclave instead (much like Shepard's beginning in ME2 or ME3) as a captive/representative with Cassandra, Corypheus comes back, she gets the mark, bam! Hawke's the protagonist. Creating a Warden-like character with different races and backgrounds is almost completely unnecessary to the way DA:I is structured, while it played a vital role in DA:O with multiple long-winded origin stories to play through.

 

I honestly believe that DAII was a product of poor timing: EA didn't want to overly invest, wanted to strike while the iron was hot with the popularity of DA:O, and needed to beat bigger projects like Skyrim to the punch while avoiding cannibalizing the sales of EA's own Kingdoms of Amalur and Mass Effect 3. So instead of giving DA:O's sequel a longer development cycle and higher budget, they rushed it out in 14 months on an old engine while simultaneously planning a sequel on a newer, more established engine (Frostbite). Hawke's introduction was supposed to create a marketable character to be the face of the franchise in the future. Problem was, DAII was so poorly received that that could no longer happen. People would associate Inquisition with DAII, and automatically think negatively based on the introduction trailer alone.

 

Do you remember ME3's intro trailer? All it was was an anonymous person talking, shooting stuff, then Shepard slowly walking toward a camera. DA:I's was nearly the same with a voice over, Varric in a bunch of rubble, annnnd... Morrigan. Who isn't even playable. Hawke was originally supposed to be in that role, but unlike Hawke, Morrigan still held good favor with DA fans. So, gear shift.

 

It's impossible to 100% prove this because no one in EA or Bioware will ever come out and admit as much. But I think it's overwhelmingly obvious that, as of at least three years ago, DA:I was supposed to be Hawke's as well.

[highwindstryder]

 

I honestly believe that DAII was a product of poor timing: EA didn't want to overly invest, wanted to strike while the iron was hot with the popularity of DA:O, and needed to beat bigger projects like Skyrim to the punch while avoiding cannibalizing the sales of EA's own Kingdoms of Amalur and Mass Effect 3. So instead of giving DA:O's sequel a longer development cycle and higher budget, they rushed it out in 14 months on an old engine while simultaneously planning a sequel on a newer, more established engine (Frostbite). Hawke's introduction was supposed to create a marketable character to be the face of the franchise in the future. Problem was, DAII was so poorly received that that could no longer happen. People would associate Inquisition with DAII, and automatically think negatively based on the introduction trailer alone.

 

Do you remember ME3's intro trailer? All it was was an anonymous person talking, shooting stuff, then Shepard slowly walking toward a camera. DA:I's was nearly the same with a voice over, Varric in a bunch of rubble, annnnd... Morrigan. Who isn't even playable. Hawke was originally supposed to be in that role, but unlike Hawke, Morrigan still held good favor with DA fans. So, gear shift.

 

It's impossible to 100% prove this because no one in EA or Bioware will ever come out and admit as much. But I think it's overwhelmingly obvious that, as of at least three years ago, DA:I was supposed to be Hawke's as well.

 

This is what happens when you take a game like DA:O and make changes that don't make sense, like the combat and the recycled environments.   Though they went way overkill with Inquisition and the huge areas.   And might I say, that it seems to me that in Inquisition, yeah, they heard the complaints about DA2, but instead of doing things more like Origins, they simply did things less like DA2.

 

And now they probably can't use Hawke as that multi-game character anymore because they put him/her in Inquisition as a character that has the ability to die.   Now he/she can never be the main character again because some players will say "oh but he died in MY Inquisition playthrough therefore he/she can't be the main character again, I won't buy!".

 

Overall, I think there are a few things that should have been anchored plot points instead of optional ones.  the Old God Baby for example should have been a definite occurrence.  But it wasn't.

[staindgrey]

This is what happens when you take a game like DA:O and make changes that don't make sense, like the combat and the recycled environments.   Though they went way overkill with Inquisition and the huge areas.   And might I say, that it seems to me that in Inquisition, yeah, they heard the complaints about DA2, but instead of doing things more like Origins, they simply did things less like DA2.

 

And now they probably can't use Hawke as that multi-game character anymore because they put him/her in Inquisition as a character that has the ability to die.   Now he/she can never be the main character again because some players will say "oh but he died in MY Inquisition playthrough therefore he/she can't be the main character again, I won't buy!".

 

Overall, I think there are a few things that should have been anchored plot points instead of optional ones.  the Old God Baby for example should have been a definite occurrence.  But it wasn't.

The one thing going for Alistair and Hawke, though, is that we never actually SEE them die, and the decision even states that they will "likely" die.

 

Besides, Leliana has already disproven the "if they can die, they can no longer be a part of the series" angle. She died in my Origins playthrough.

[Nyaore]

The one thing going for Alistair and Hawke, though, is that we never actually SEE them die, and the decision even states that they will "likely" die.

 

Besides, Leliana has already disproven the "if they can die, they can no longer be a part of the series" angle. She died in my Origins playthrough.

I think Bioware is trying to be very careful about outright saying a person can die after the mess that was Leliana and Wynne's deaths in Origins, as chances are they're going to want one of those characters back for one reason or another. They're still receive flack for that, not that I blame the people who are doing it at all, so better to avoid the finality outright and instead make a situation where they could be dead, but the text and angles leaves it open for interpretation.

[highwindstryder]

The one thing going for Alistair and Hawke, though, is that we never actually SEE them die, and the decision even states that they will "likely" die.

 

Besides, Leliana has already disproven the "if they can die, they can no longer be a part of the series" angle. She died in my Origins playthrough.

 Ah, that is a good point! And on a related point, using another nameless character in Inquistion makes it difficult to have the Inquisitor show up in a future game, much like it's difficult to have the warden come back (and the fact that the warden can die doubles it up against that possibility).

 

That said, I really want the Flemeth/Old Gods/Andraste/Maker/Black City/darkspawn taint to all get explained fully...whether in DLC soon or parts at a time in future main releases.   I'm betting the Black City is Arlathan myself...

[mikeymoonshine]

I'm glad Hawke isn't the Shepard of DA and I hope there will never be one. Inquisition may not have braught back everything that was great about Origins but it was progress and it felt a lot better than DA2. I'm quite happy with what we got even though I think it could have been better, lets just hope they continue to improve. 

[herkles]

That said, I really want the Flemeth/Old Gods/Andraste/Maker/Black City/darkspawn taint to all get explained fully...whether in DLC soon or parts at a time in future main releases.   I'm betting the Black City is Arlathan myself...

I don't want that and I hope the never explain those things. The game needs mysteries and I find the setting is much better without having to go "the maker is real/not real" Let people who live in that world figure out what they believe is true, but I hope to never see an objective statement that any of that is real. This lets us imagine things.

 

 

I'm glad Hawke isn't the Shepard of DA and I hope there will never be one. Inquisition may not have braught back everything that was great about Origins but it was progress and it felt a lot better than DA2. I'm quite happy with what we got even though I think it could have been better, lets just hope they continue to improve.  

agreed. I like that in each new game of Dragon age we have a new hero/heroine. If we go to Rivain, I have ideas for characters there. I have a rather good concept for if we go to tevinter concept in my head already

 

All of which requires a new character. My warden, hawke, or inquistor wouldn't really do well in Tevinter, and certainly none of them wish to make the empire stronger. Yet I have a character concept if we go to tevinter that not only supports the empire but also opposes slavery and blood magic(though not for moral reasons). none of the previous characters agrees with the Qun, yet I have the idea of a rivain rogue or warrior who agrees with it and wishes to join it and support it over the chantry and the Kingdom of Rivain. 

[Uriel]

 Solas is the sole elven character, aside from the Inquisitor, should you choose that. 

And Sera?

 

I like having different characters in DA, so many time goes between the games. And as Varric says, the world never lacks of heroes.

 

I still don't feel out of place with my elven inquisitor at all. Sure I could have tell "yeah yeah Andraste is great, glory to the Maker !" But no, I was able to say: "Forget about Andraste, I'm Dalish and have my own deities, I'm tired of your religious bullshit" (well, more politely). And considering some of the major plot things (Mythal, Fen'Harel...) I more than feel my Dalish Inquisitor is perfectly at his place.

 

I really wish to see Tevinter in another game, that's a place where I always wanted to go. Or visit Antiva also.

[Apo]

My Lavellan was Second to her Keeper, which is what happens if you play a mage, she'd have been taught the old ways along with the First given the nature of her eventual status within the clan. That and the Dalish - mage or not - invoke both Mythal and the other gods, with a few exceptions, on many occasions throughout the games. Their memories of their culture are very important to them, so I see no reason why the legends would not be shared. Perhaps not the less desirable lore they discover over the years, but the basics most definitely. The way it was presented made it sound like she had no idea who Mythal was in spite of that fact, rather than someone who accepted she knew very little and wanted to know more. I don't know, I wish the was an option to say 'this is how the Dalish know Mythal' and then have the exposition prove us wrong. 

 

Yea from a dalish mage perspective I understand that it can be frustrating, but like I said I haven't played the game yet and my first character will be a dalish archer so when I'll be in that area I can see for myself to deal with this questions

[OdanUrr]

And here I thought playing as a Dalish would make for an even better experience. I'm currently playing as a Human Mage.

[Ssekyr1]

And Sera?

 

 

 

I largely ignored her. Really, for three reasons. Two were in game reasons; her seeming to dislike elves and not associating with them, be they city or Dalish. And her whole fake crazy Robin Hood-esque repetoire. And the third, out-of-game reason, I can't stand chavs. Ever. Dislike the perceived accent and slang, dislike the persona they present. Kicked her when I got the chance, something like, "If you're not the archer, your the target." Satisfying enough. Then again, I didn't explore a relationship with her for those reasons, so perhaps I'm wrong on the first point. I will my current playthrough.

 

 

And here I thought playing as a Dalish would make for an even better experience. I'm currently playing as a Human Mage.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm doing this time around. About 3 hours in, level 5 still in the Hinterland's. I've experienced a more immersive playthrough so far. Honestly, I didn't think it would be apparent so early on.

[LexXxich]

Another point about Sera, Solas and Lavellan Inq. If you have both elves in your party Solas will go on with long phrases in elven (hoping to educate Sera or something) which display as non-translated elven in subtitles. Thing is, Lavellan Inq character is supposed to understand what's being said, even if player doesn't.

[OdanUrr]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing this time around. About 3 hours in, level 5 still in the Hinterland's. I've experienced a more immersive playthrough so far. Honestly, I didn't think it would be apparent so early on.

 

So, playing a human mage is better?

[Evamitchelle]

Really? This is the only thread I've seen pertaining to race reactivty and elves in general.

 

 

Did you try the war table with Cullen, as well? I wonder if it'd go different with Josephine or Lelianna, both are more tactful in different ways.

 

Regardless if Fen'Harel exists now as Urthemiel and Mythal or Flemeth exists as all three, they all still exist. But, to what end? Specualtion on my part will be fruitless simply because the answer is apparent. A new installment is forthcoming. Something that doesn't delight me quite the way the forthcoming DA2 and then DA:I did.

 

If you pick Leliana the nobles are driven out and the clan is safe inside Wycome. The other Free Marcher cities are contemplating retaliation, but the Keeper doesn't want to leave the city elves on their own. She asks you for help and you can choose either Josephine or Cullen. I don't what the outcome of that is yet, since those missions take 15+ hours. 

[Mikka-chan]

I had Leianna get the Dalish inside the city to save the alienage, then I sent Cullen to reinforce them as for all Josie's cleverness, I wasn't sure if she could stop elf haters who just saw the elves massacre human nobility (I mean, they were red lyrium using nobility, but still).  My clan survived, the alienage survived, and my Keeper and some of the city elves were now on a Council of Merchants working with the commoners in the city and all governing together.  And that was the last of the origin War Table quests for me.

 

I have doubts that'll last happily forever, but it does seem to be working for now.  So there can be a happy ending.

 

As for being a Dalish Elf... I don't know.  I felt like everyone was throwing YOU ARE AN ELF YES YOU ARE at me.  My character did ask some dumb questions ("What is Mythal?"), but overall I felt 'Dalish'.  The fact is the elves- especially the Dalish- have lost a lot.  That's been a long theme through the games, starting from Origins.  The fact that they used to be as horrible as any people with an empire in such times- well, it didn't surprise me.

 

On the other hand, by the end of the romance, I hated Solas and wanted him to die in a fire.  So!  All's well, I guess.

[OdanUrr]

For anyone who's played a Dalish Elf, from a story point of view, is it better to play a Hunter (Rogue) or an Apprentice (Mage)?