139 réponses à ce sujet

[Amirit]

Right, I read Masked Empire. 

 

......

 

My major complaints were, concisely, this game doesn't make the character feel elven nor does it do a good job explaining literally anything that arose in previous installments. Simply more fuel for future fires. Too many tangled ends, too many loose ideas. I feel that it detracts from the overall story, despite the game's immersion in elven zones / lore.... I mean, the most of Halamshiral you see is the Winter Palace.

 

Looks like I found someone able to answer my question. Ok, from elven lore and history perspective the story fails you or could be done much better (all solid arguments) but can you tell me how did it feel to play an elf for someone who read Masked Empire?

My problem with the elves here (still hesitate to roll one) is the necessity to deal with Orlei. I can not believe that all that people can ignore the fact that you are a second class citizen, lower race, practically a slave (well, almost). In ME the injustice towards elves was everywhere, one of the main plot line. And now an elf is leading a huge religious human organisation?! To me it's like a black slave suddenly promoted to pope in medieval times. 

 

I can not play an elf until I somehow manage to justify that very point  (With kossith or dwarf it's no better but in their case it's more about their originaly alien nature to the Chantry and anything related to human specific traditions)

[ZoliCs]

Then, Flemeth / Urthemiel / Mythal takes his body. Now, this is well and good. It’s not so bad to keep such powerful, possibly divine, legends all locked together; but to what end? A four hour DLC to be released in a year? Or simply the continuation of a franchise? It's about that money, after all. While I don't blame anyone for desiring money, I know plenty of satisfying authors who don't **** thier product in doing so.

Lol what? So if a good TV series has a cliffhanger ending it's all about money and not storytelling? Please....

[Ssekyr1]

So, playing a human mage is better?

 

Now past the first 'act', although I'm reticent to call it that. I now have Skyhold. Yes, it seems semi-tailored to the experience. You're a the Circle-bound child of the noble Trevalyn(sp?) House. You're treated as such by Josephine is a lot of dialogue and I imagine your time in Val Royeaux will be different. So far it's more satisfying, if only because of the racial reactivity and the numerous class specific dialogue.

 

If you pick Leliana the nobles are driven out and the clan is safe inside Wycome. The other Free Marcher cities are contemplating retaliation, but the Keeper doesn't want to leave the city elves on their own. She asks you for help and you can choose either Josephine or Cullen. I don't what the outcome of that is yet, since those missions take 15+ hours. 

 

I have a hard save on my elven inquisitor right before the Mage/Templar decision, which I'm certain is before that mission. I'll have to go back and see. Thank you for the information and the response.

 

For anyone who's played a Dalish Elf, from a story point of view, is it better to play a Hunter (Rogue) or an Apprentice (Mage)?

 

They do a good job making sense of why you'd initially be at the Conclave, but more so than class in this case, you're playing a Dalish. So, regardless of class, the character will seemingly suffer from the same racial reactivity and shortfalls in story pertaining to that. I can't imagine the changes would be that different simply based upon the class you choose; although, you might suffer different approval/disapproval for certain decisions, I imagine the dialogue is largely similar... "Wut?! Who's Mythal?, Wut? The Elves?"

 

Looks like I found someone able to answer my question. Ok, from elven lore and history perspective the story fails you or could be done much better (all solid arguments) but can you tell me how did it feel to play an elf for someone who read Masked Empire?

My problem with the elves here (still hesitate to roll one) is the necessity to deal with Orlei. I can not believe that all that people can ignore the fact that you are a second class citizen, lower race, practically a slave (well, almost). In ME the injustice towards elves was everywhere, one of the main plot line. And now an elf is leading a huge religious human organisation?! To me it's like a black slave suddenly promoted to pope in medieval times. 

 

I can not play an elf until I somehow manage to justify that very point  (With kossith or dwarf it's no better but in their case it's more about their originaly alien nature to the Chantry and anything related to human specific traditions)

 

The reason you, as First to your Keeper, goes to the Conclave is well spouted. You're a spy, the Keeper feels the Mage / Templar's being negotiated with by the Chantry's Divine is relevant to your clan, to all Dalish. That makes plenty of sense, given the Second Exalted March and Mankind's tendency to blame the People for literally everything. So far the the Elven situation in Orlais? You have the opportunity to put Briala in direct control of Gaspard, who becomes the new Emperor. He also makes her a landed Noble, giving her Halamshiral and arguably making her Grand Duchess of all the Dales (although, this isn't explicity stated). So, that's relatively satisfying. You, don't, however, see any alienages or their situation prior or post helping Briala. The most you see are slaughtered elves towards the end of the Winter Palace missions, slaughtered elves at Dinin'hanin (sp?) and 5-6 Dalish in their Exalted Plains camp.

 

Lol what? So if a good TV series has a cliffhanger ending it's all about money and not storytelling? Please....

 

Oftentimes, that TV series is known to 1.) Be ending. 2.) Have a continuation. Neither of those things are known (to me) about Dragon Age, although I've heard the Dev's plan on keeping up, thankfully Gaider is a part of that. What's more, TV shows are literally always about money. I haven't found a TV series entertaining since Star Trek: TNG, but that's just me. Also, that particular point... about Flemeth and Solas, it adds to and detracts from the story. It's similar to the Hawke meeting her, and delivering the Amulet. She spouts some cryptic babble that makes sense later. Later being DA2's Epilogue. As Solas and Flemeth's dialogue takes place in the Epilogue, it's semi-jarring if only because the Dev's are asking the audience to yet spend more time with their creation which only satisfies some things, some of the time. It's asking a lot, imo. Sure, the game is worth the sixty USD, but is it worth the hours when I could simply watch the pertinent scenes on Youtube? Probably, but that simply doesn't add to it. Granted, the added knowledge that Fen'Harel is still (now) present is gratifying, but to what end? Just wait and see! they tell me. Okay... I've been here for close to five years, what's another five?

[YTMND]

I hear you man, I've played mage-male-human but I've seen some play through

and some the dialogues for the elves realy seems 'off' in many occasions.

 

BUT I do think that the mission in wells of sorrows would have been awsome for Elven players.

you would have been more compelled to drink from the well than any other players..  Or atleast that was my impression

 

Even so, I think I do agree bioware could have gained much more from making a better story/narrative/Dialogue for DAI,

[General TSAR]

Elves suck, how do you not know this by now?

[Ssekyr1]

Elves suck, how do you not know this by now?

 

For me it's the humans that tend toward that end.

[Evamitchelle]

I have a hard save on my elven inquisitor right before the Mage/Templar decision, which I'm certain is before that mission. I'll have to go back and see. Thank you for the information and the response.

 

Choosing Josephine for the second option lead to the clan being killed as well. I don't know about the Cullen option because for some reason I didn't think of making two concurrent saves, but I imagine the Cullen card leads to a good outcome (I hope, it'd pretty terrible than clan Lavellan dies no matter what you choose). 

[Amirit]

The reason you, as First to your Keeper, goes to the Conclave is well spouted. You're a spy, the Keeper feels the Mage / Templar's being negotiated with by the Chantry's Divine is relevant to your clan, to all Dalish. That makes plenty of sense, given the Second Exalted March and Mankind's tendency to blame the People for literally everything. So far the the Elven situation in Orlais? You have the opportunity to put Briala in direct control of Gaspard, who becomes the new Emperor. He also makes her a landed Noble, giving her Halamshiral and arguably making her Grand Duchess of all the Dales (although, this isn't explicity stated). So, that's relatively satisfying. You, don't, however, see any alienages or their situation prior or post helping Briala. The most you see are slaughtered elves towards the end of the Winter Palace missions, slaughtered elves at Dinin'hanin (sp?) and 5-6 Dalish in their Exalted Plains camp.

 

Thank you for answer and it's good to know some issues can be resolved (btw, if you side with Celene can you get as much for elves?)

 

One more question though. The reason for being at conclave is good enough even for Qunary. It's the rest of the NPC attitude I worry about. Does it feel natural or like your race simply ignored? I absolutely can not imagine any one who would call a dwarf or kossith "Herald of Andraste" but without ignoring race completely so can not I imagine Orlesian Nobles even taking to an elf, less so accepting one as a head of organisation allowing to order humans around. Controlling someone - yes, it's perfect and already worth trying. But in ordinary tasks, handling villagers, trading with nobles, visiting balls - hard to picture. 

 

You said it yourself, "it seems semi-tailored to the experience [of human mage]".

 

Do I over-think it too much?  

[Ssekyr1]

Choosing Josephine for the second option lead to the clan being killed as well. I don't know about the Cullen option because for some reason I didn't think of making two concurrent saves, but I imagine the Cullen card leads to a good outcome (I hope, it'd pretty terrible than clan Lavellan dies no matter what you choose). 

 

Leliana's operations seem to lead to the most success. Then again, during the War Table tutorial they tell you certain missions have preferred types, yet they give you no 'type-indicator', do they? That's fine, I guess. Most of the time my Operations went exceedingly well, simply from reading all given info and applying whatever discernment I have. I'll need to revisit those particular operations, and I plan to. The only ones I was really invested in were the ones pertaining to Lavellan (first went 'well', second resulted in slaughter) and the Varric/Hardtown ones. I also spent 16hrs trying to find my warden. I got a silly note and a blue potions belt.

 

On another note, did anyone get the 'Preventing War Between Nevarra and Tevinter(Orlais?) one? It disapeared for me, never to reappear. I didn't do it, as I thought there were more pressing concerns and it was going to take 23hrs or so.

[Ssekyr1]

Thank you for answer and it's good to know some issues can be resolved (btw, if you side with Celene can you get as much for elves?)

 

One more question though. The reason for being at conclave is good enough even for Qunary. It's the rest of the NPC attitude I worry about. Does it feel natural or like your race simply ignored? I absolutely can not imagine any one who would call a dwarf or kossith "Herald of Andraste" but without ignoring race completely so can not I imagine Orlesian Nobles even taking to an elf, less so accepting one as a head of organisation allowing to order humans around. Controlling someone - yes, it's perfect and already worth trying. But in ordinary tasks, handling villagers, trading with nobles, visiting balls - hard to picture. 

 

You said it yourself, "it seems semi-tailored to the experience [of human mage]".

 

Do I over-think it too much?  

 

Firstly, there's no such thing as 'overthinking' a game (or anything) you deign to invest your time in. So, no on that count. As for siding with Celene, I don't know, but I'd doubt it in context. I don't recall a post addressing that particularly, either. And, as for playing a Dwarf or Qunari (Tal-Vashoth kossith, really), those are addressed on the first page of this thread. Two separate people seem to have the same issues as I did with an elf.  The game seems largely tailored to any class human. Playing a human mage now, and it is a bit more satisfying in that regard. Still can be friends with Solas, still can support the elves (much to their surprise) but you seem more tailor-fit to the role Bioware initially intended for Inquisitor.

[Evamitchelle]

Leliana's operations seem to lead to the most success. Then again, during the War Table tutorial they tell you certain missions have preferred types, yet they give you no 'type-indicator', do they? That's fine, I guess. Most of the time my Operations went exceedingly well, simply from reading all given info and applying whatever discernment I have. I'll need to revisit those particular operations, and I plan to. The only ones I was really invested in were the ones pertaining to Lavellan (first went 'well', second resulted in slaughter) and the Varric/Hardtown ones. I also spent 16hrs trying to find my warden. I got a silly note and a blue potions belt.

 

On another note, did anyone get the 'Preventing War Between Nevarra and Tevinter(Orlais?) one? It disapeared for me, never to reappear. I didn't do it, as I thought there were more pressing concerns and it was going to take 23hrs or so.

 

The type-indicator is that it takes less time to complete. But when you get agents, it reduces the amount of time it takes to complete missions for a particular advisor - I think it's 10% less per agent - so in the end you can't really compare the time anymore.

[House Lannister]

Don't know about you but I've been playing as a qunari for my second playthrough and it's been very interesting thus far.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sigh....

 

The only issue that I have with Elves now is how weird they bodies look...It is not so bad when they are in armor but when they in that beige shite clothes, they truly look terrible...Just turns me off 

[ZoliCs]

Oftentimes, that TV series is known to 1.) Be ending. 2.) Have a continuation. Neither of those things are known (to me) about Dragon Age, although I've heard the Dev's plan on keeping up, thankfully Gaider is a part of that. What's more, TV shows are literally always about money. I haven't found a TV series entertaining since Star Trek: TNG, but that's just me. Also, that particular point... about Flemeth and Solas, it adds to and detracts from the story. It's similar to the Hawke meeting her, and delivering the Amulet. She spouts some cryptic babble that makes sense later. Later being DA2's Epilogue. As Solas and Flemeth's dialogue takes place in the Epilogue, it's semi-jarring if only because the Dev's are asking the audience to yet spend more time with their creation which only satisfies some things, some of the time. It's asking a lot, imo. Sure, the game is worth the sixty USD, but is it worth the hours when I could simply watch the pertinent scenes on Youtube? Probably, but that simply doesn't add to it. Granted, the added knowledge that Fen'Harel is still (now) present is gratifying, but to what end? Just wait and see! they tell me. Okay... I've been here for close to five years, what's another five?

 

Well I like that they leave DA games with cliffhangers. This way we can speculate until the next game comes instead of just...well sitting around and waiting.

[Amirit]

Firstly, there's no such thing as 'overthinking' a game (or anything) you deign to invest your time in. So, no on that count. As for siding with Celene, I don't know, but I'd doubt it in context. I don't recall a post addressing that particularly, either. And, as for playing a Dwarf or Qunari (Tal-Vashoth kossith, really), those are addressed on the first page of this thread. Two separate people seem to have the same issues as I did with an elf.  The game seems largely tailored to any class human. Playing a human mage now, and it is a bit more satisfying in that regard. Still can be friends with Solas, still can support the elves (much to their surprise) but you seem more tailor-fit to the role Bioware initially intended for Inquisitor.

 

Thank you again! I was afraid of that or, better say, was sure it is the case but hoped to be mistaken. As you said, it was initially designed for human only protagonist and races were added by demand and more as a fan-service. 

[Kendaric Varkellen]

The game seems largely tailored to any class human. Playing a human mage now, and it is a bit more satisfying in that regard. Still can be friends with Solas, still can support the elves (much to their surprise) but you seem more tailor-fit to the role Bioware initially intended for Inquisitor.

 

Actually it seems to be tailored to a human mage and I guess that's what the canon inquisitor will most likely be.

[Zu Long]

As someone who loved my Dalish mage Inquisitor to death, I felt it was a great story and my Dalish had a great character arc. He started out as conflicted- on the one hand, he wanted to honor the old ways. On the other, he had apparently been saved from calamity and certain death by SOMEONE, and without evidence to the contrary, he couldn't really say it wasn't the human Goddess Andraste. This bothered him because it set a contrast between the Dalish Gods- locked away and not doing anything for the Elves, while the human God was apparently perfectly willing to reach out and save him when it felt it was necessary for the good of the world.

As he interacts with various characters at the beginning his confidence is further shaken by his conversations with Solas, Sera, and the elven researcher from the circle whose name escapes me. From them he learns that some Elves do not look fondly on the Dalish-that for many, they are seen as conceited or haughty or simply cruel.

His journey took him across Thedas, and he gained a healthy respect for the chantry and its power to bring people together.

The revelation from the fade did little to change his mind, as the difference between being saved by Andraste herself and merely being saved by the leader of her church seemed a minor difference at best.

The final straw came at the Temple in the Arbor Wilds. There, trying to help and reaching out to someone who should have considered him Kindred, he was instead rejected, with all that same pride and conceit and cruelty, thrown back into his face. "You are NOT my people," the sentinel told him. And all his people's beliefs about what had happened to them and their gods, the stories they told were revealed as false. Fen'Harel was innocent.

So be it then. Faced with a heritage that spurned him or a human church which had declared him its savior, the choice was easy. While his interest in the history of his people remains, he knows now it is only history. His people's future lies elsewhere.


So yeah, I thought it was awesome.

[yummysoap]

One of my main worries leading up to the release of this game is that to me it didn't make sense for the Inquisitor to be anything other than human with all that chantry imagery and such close ties to the Andrastian religion. It seemed unlikely that humans would ever accept an elf or a dwarf or a bloody qunari as their inquisitor and from the sounds of it I may have been right. Can anyone else comment as to how they felt the different races were handled in the game with regards to their relevance to the story as so far I've only done a human playthrough.
 

EDIT:

Final. The ending cinematic with Flemeth and Solas (now Fen’Harel). While he seemed distraut by his abruptly leaving my Inquisitor and equally with losing the Orb, his purpose for wanting either was never illustrated or explained in a reasonable way. Then, Flemeth / Urthemiel / Mythal takes his body. Now, this is well and good. It’s not so bad to keep such powerful, possibly divine, legends all locked together; but to what end?

Oh, is that what happened? I thought Solas killed Flemeth, though that interpretation may make more sense.

[berrieh]

I'm playing a female noble rogue Andastrian and a Keeper Dalish mage at the same time, and I feel like both are fairly reactive. Human does seem to be "default" in a few ways but I think that's mainly because so many characters and so forth ARE human and thus don't "get" the Dalish. The war table missions could use some more re activity in general, though. I guess it helps for me that I'm playing a Dalish mage who is angry with her clan (for casting away mages to potential death in the forest) and their actions, and skeptical of the "Great Glory of the Dalish" rather than one who is 100% loyal (in fact Solas far prefers my human rogue to my Dalish mage). But my Dalish elf has totally told some Andrastians that she worships her pantheon, and faced racism as an elf, etc. I see at least as much reaction to me being an elf as I did in the City Elf origin version (my canon) in DA:O. I never got through a Dalish playthrough in DA:O, so I cannot compare the two fairly. 

 

Personally, I'm bummed there was no City Elf choice here, but I get why it was Dalish. A Dalish Inquisitor is both a powerful symbol of smackdown for humans (Andraste's chosen is a motherfucking renegade elf, y'all) and for the Dalish inquisitor herself, much like the smackdown Briala experiences in Masked Empire. I think that was mostly the point of some of the later stuff about the Dalish - to get that message across to players who don't read the books. 

 

I have not gotten quite to the end with either character yet, though, so perhaps it gets worse later. Of course, ti could also be my own bias. I love elves (the way they look and I crusade for the poor city elves), but I have little love for the Dalish per se - I could only play one who had more sympathy than usual for city elves and happened to be born among the Dalish but was angry with many of their customs. 

[LexXxich]

About "Save Clan Lavellan" war table mission, is it one with description mentioning all-too-well equipped bandits preying on the clan? If so, going with Josephine has them all killed. And the "preferred" (less time required) option of Cullen also kills them, according to earlier posts.

Additionally, first dialogue with Dorian and asking him about Tevinter Chantry had my elf phrase her questions from a perspective of someone intimately familiar with "normal" chantry. Which I don't feel is true for a Dalish.

[Pierce Miller]

Playing as a human most of the time I actually found it insanely satisfying that the elves turned out to be less than perfect. It for me fixed a problem I've always had with the story in that humans are always depicted as mustache twirling villains whilst the elves are the paragons of virtue, If anything these revelations simply improve my interest in the elves because to me a perfect society is a boring society.

[Gravybeard]

This thread is awesome-- I've been watching and waiting for one like it. I'm trying to decide whether to play as an elf or a dwarf. I hate playing as humans-- that's all real life is. Boring. So, in DA:I, are the Dalish or the Dwarves more involved with the story?

 

I'm not talking about little race-based remarks here and there. Those are usually meaningless: "I'll call you a ___, but then every other word I say will be identical to what I tell everyone else." I'm also not talking about plot importance. I'm talking about player involvement in race-specific areas. In DA:O, dwarves were more involved than elves. Orzammar and the Deep Roads were huge compared to the tiny Dalish camp. Playing as a dwarf, I felt more involved in a larger part of the story than when playing as an elf (I did both). In DA:2, there was a Dalish camp you regularly interacted with, but you spent almost zero time around traditional dwarves (surface dwarves, who are virtually the same as humans, do not count). Had a race choice been possible in DA:2, playing an elf would have felt more involved than playing a dwarf. That's what I mean.

 

There are spoilers I want to read and spoilers I don't, so I haven't read every word posted here.  But, from what I have read, neither dwarves nor elves play a large role in the sense that I'm talking about. Basically, it comes down to personal preference because neither has truly race-specific areas. When there is an elf-specific area, the game doesn't recognize that the Inquisitor is an elf. That is my impression from this thread. Is that correct? I can just play whatever I prefer (dwarf) without worrying about race-specific areas?

[Evamitchelle]

This thread is awesome-- I've been watching and waiting for one like it. I'm trying to decide whether to play as an elf or a dwarf. I hate playing as humans-- that's all real life is. Boring. So, in DA:I, are the Dalish or the Dwarves more involved with the story?

 

I'm not talking about little race-based remarks here and there. Those are usually meaningless: "I'll call you a ___, but then every other word I say will be identical to what I tell everyone else." I'm also not talking about plot importance. I'm talking about player involvement in race-specific areas. In DA:O, dwarves were more involved than elves. Orzammar and the Deep Roads were huge compared to the tiny Dalish camp. Playing as a dwarf, I felt more involved in a larger part of the story than when playing as an elf (I did both). In DA:2, there was a Dalish camp you regularly interacted with, but you spent almost zero time around traditional dwarves (surface dwarves, who are virtually the same as humans, do not count). Had a race choice been possible in DA:2, playing an elf would have felt more involved than playing a dwarf. That's what I mean.

 

There are spoilers I want to read and spoilers I don't, so I haven't read every word posted here.  But, from what I have read, neither dwarves nor elves play a large role in the sense that I'm talking about. Basically, it comes down to personal preference because neither has truly race-specific areas. When there is an elf-specific area, the game doesn't recognize that the Inquisitor is an elf. That is my impression from this thread. Is that correct? I can just play whatever I prefer (dwarf) without worrying about race-specific areas?

 

The Dalish are definitely more involved in the story than the dwarves. There are several quests involving a Dalish clan or elven ruins, and one of the main quests is in an elf-specific area. You also get different responses from Solas and Sera. I haven't played a Cadash yet, but there's really nothing in the main story that even vaguely relates to dwarven history. 

 

And in my experience the elf-specific area does respond to you being an elf, except at the beginning when they info-dump on your character like they know nothing about elven culture (and that was probably done for the benefit of the player, who doesn't necessarily know Dalish history all that well). 

[Ianamus]

Well, I just finished my first playthrough playing as an elf and I felt there was a sufficient amount of recognition of my characters race, particularly around the beginning of the game.

 

Of course there are moments that felt a bit off, like asking who Mythal is and a few conversations with Solas where my Inquisitors responses didn't quite fit. But I also remember many moments where my race felt really natural, most notably revering flemeth and referring to her as Asha'bellanar.

 

The Temple of Mythal was a weird one, because one moment they are telling you things you should probably know as an elf and the next my Inquisitor is discussing his clans stories about the the elven gods with Solas.

[Amirit]

 Had a race choice been possible in DA:2, playing an elf would have felt more involved than playing a dwarf. That's what I mean.

 

Same thing here. And nothing close to DAO in this regards. The game is designed fora  human protagonist, involves enough elven lore to feel acceptable for an elven Inquisitor, but as interesting as dwarves and kossiths are, them leading Inquisition looks surreal and disconnected (and does not involve a bit of their own culture).

 

A Warden is a Warden - no religion involved, you are a warrior first and there is no one better then a dwarf at this role (DN felt SO natural there). Here it's a different matter - you are leading alien to you human specific religious organisation and supposed to be a very symbol of that religion.

Some are able to justify and rationalize the idea, some do not care as long as their Inquisitor looks cool (and you do as a kossith). If you are one of them - go for it. But the story WAS designed with a human in mind and you will see it at every corner.