Facts:
Go ahead. Give me a counter-argument.
Side quest that should have had at least a cutscene in them to give them more weight to the player.
1. Blades of Hessian
2. Mage encampment
3. Templar encampment
4. Dealing with the cult in the Hinterlands
5. Talking to the horse master and his family + friends
6. Almost every mission in the hinterlands that slipped my mind cause they all blended together into the same thing.
Stuff that had cutscenes so far and was memorable
1. Getting my companions
2. Val Rouyex and the templar and mage introductions
Literally this is not the way to make people invested in the optional content. Instead of giving it a sense of accomplishment and scale to your actions, by boiling most of them down to "talk to this npc, get object/do objective, talk back to them" done in the same over the shoulder camera style they have for merchants, It at least for me makes it all just feel like busiwork. Like every mission is now a chantry board mission instead of a proper bioware sidequest like we've seen in both DAO, DAA, and DA2.
I wish people would get a real job instead of being paid to post on a forum, it's highly annoying.
I understand the OPs point that the main content takes a lot of time and resources. However, that is not an excuse for empty filler. If the reason the filler is empty is because of how much had to go into all of that other stuff, why not cut the empty filler and use that time and those resources for more good stuff? The two main arguments in this thread are not mutually exclusive.
I understand the OPs point that the main content takes a lot of time and resources. However, that is not an excuse for empty filler. If the reason the filler is empty is because of how much had to go into all of that other stuff, why not cut the empty filler and use that time and those resources for more good stuff? The two main arguments in this thread are not mutually exclusive.
You can pad the game world with copy and paste low quality quests and call it a "huge game" while at the same time reducing the cost/time needed to make the high quality stuff. Most people won't even know the difference. It's highly a deceptive used in most mmos, ie: collect 10 apples.
I wrote out another long response but I guess we're just running in circles. Bye.
Ah well I couldn't help checking the thread one more time before passing out. It's all good. Agree to disagree.
The counterargument is that one can design filler quests w/o using any of the word-count and without making them all the same collect 10 of X assuming that this is what DAI side quests all reduce to in the end, e.g. slay this beast, explore this region, deliver these documents, find this person. Those are all fetch quests, but they're not collection + random encounter quests.
Some quests require you kill creatures. Others require you to explore a new region to retrieve those collections.
I'll concede that there could be more superficial differences in how the fetch quests play out. They could have easily have changed some fetch quests to kill quests or delivery quests and none would be the wiser.
Fair point, but in the end they are still fetch quests.
I wish people would get a real job instead of being paid to post on a forum, it's highly annoying.
Why are you still clicking on this thread if I annoy you so much? Resorting to insulting me by comparing me to a spambot only proves how opinionated you are.
Why are you still clicking on this thread if I annoy you so much? Resorting to insulting me by comparing me to a spambot only proves how opinionated you are.
When did I ever mention your name?
I understand the OPs point that the main content takes a lot of time and resources. However, that is not an excuse for empty filler. If the reason the filler is empty is because of how much had to go into all of that other stuff, why not cut the empty filler and use that time and those resources for more good stuff? The two main arguments in this thread are not mutually exclusive.
You could argue that they could have cut another feature and added more content to the fetch quests.
What would replace the fetch quests that would go missing? IE How would you repopulate the world?
Would you shrink it? Reduce it to DAO sizes?
When did I ever mention your name?
Oh you're right you were probably talking about someone else.
Although I enjoy the game, this is one of the most disappointing aspects of it.
Even in SWTOR, side-quests would have you engaging in dialogue with an NPC. Traditional Bioware "camera focus on two NPC's talking, dialogue wheel with a few options etc". In DAI all we get is MMO-esque over-the-shoulder banter. Accept, complete, return. In ME, ME2, ME3 and DAO, every side-quest had a more personal, in-depth take on it...even if it were a simple fetch quest.
It just saddens me that in order to prolong the game, Bioware completely missed one of the aspects of their games that make them so enjoyable to play to begin with. Literally the only thing I'm looking forward to at the moment is the next main mission, because all the exploration and companion dialogue is fun, knowing the side-quests lack any form of depth just makes me not want to progress through them.
You could argue that they could have cut another feature and added more content to the fetch quests.
What would replace the fetch quests that would go missing? IE How would you repopulate the world?
Would you shrink it? Reduce it to DAO sizes?
That depends on what you mean by "repopulate the world. Do you mean with actual quests? Why not interesting NPCs that just provide fun dialogue or lore? Anyway, as long as the content was good, yes, I'd prefer a smaller game with good content over meaningless fluff. Now of course there is a point at which there is too little content, but there is a lot of room before that. I value quality over quantity. You're free to do the opposite. For example, being a completionist, I found all the crap on the various planets in Mass Effect, but that was annoying and pointless. To be fair, I doubt those "quests" took much development time and they were totally skippable.
You imply that the game consists of meaningless fluff when there are a lot of major storyline quests, plenty of companion quests, and minor story quests throughout the game.That depends on what you mean by "repopulate the world. Do you mean with actual quests? Why not interesting NPCs that just provide fun dialogue or lore? Anyway, as long as the content was good, yes, I'd prefer a smaller game with good content over meaningless fluff. Now of course there is a point at which there is too little content, but there is a lot of room before that. I value quality over quantity. You're free to do the opposite. For example, being a completionist, I found all the crap on the various planets in Mass Effect, but that was annoying and pointless. To be fair, I doubt those "quests" took much development time and they were totally skippable.
You imply that the game consists of meaningless fluff when there are a lot of major storyline quests, plenty of companion quests, and minor story quests throughout the game.
Considering that the good quality content is still there and has not been reduced compared to its predecessors, it seems that all you are asking for is a slimmer DAI.
You are arguing that DAI should have been a smaller game, without all this extra additional (mostly) optional content that you don't need. That's cool, but what about those who enjoy this new style? Your argument is subjective. You have the right to not enjoy something. I don't like FIFA games, but I don't go around calling it a bad game, it doesn't appeal to me. That is all. DAI is a party-based narrative cinematic RPG with open world elements. It does all of that pretty well I would think.
So what to do about it?
Cutting out the fluff would make the game world relatively empty. They can make the world as beautiful and large as they want but if there is no driving force to explore a lot of their work can go unnoticed. There needs to be some filler.
Reducing the fluff could work, but considering that all side quests already cost very little in comparison to other parts of the game, I don't see how much work they can do to replace them.
In Exile suggested that the quest context be differentiated a bit more. That's fair, but it seems the context matters little to you as the "quality" remains unchanged. They are still fetch quests.
Assuming that it takes a couple of lines of dialogue, some asset design, and some inventory coding to create a fetch quest...how much can you create in lieu of it? There isn't an unlimited amount of resources.
You said it yourself. Optional content in ME took comparatively little design. Are you implying that they could have cut it out and created one quest line to replace it?
Then ME would lose its exploration aspect. What about those who enjoy it? I have a fond memory of reading about this one planet with a moon with a large rift on it rumored to have been caused by a high velocity mass effect super weapon as a last act of defiance against the reapers. Klendagon I think? I gawked at the moon in wonder. The point is that a totally random planet had something nice to explore, with the fetch quests driving me to roam the planets.
I didn't imply anything. I haven't played Inquisition, so my comments were hypothetical and using other players' impressions.
Slimmer is a good word for it. Cut the fat and put on a little muscle. Yeah, I'd rather have one good, interesting quest than 5 vapid quests. As I said before, there is a point at which there is too little content, no matter how good, but from what you say, there is a lot of good stuff in there.
Your analogy is weak. What if you did like FIFA and they suddenly turned it into Foosball style were you control a line rather than an individual player or made you play a whole game as a goalie, or even put three teams on the field at once? They have changed the essence of what Dragon Age was and there was no need to do so. Was it advertised that it was going to be that way? I don't seem to be the only one surprised or disappointed.
Also, the quests don't have to change to be extremely deep or involved, they just need to matter to the world going on. You need to feel as though you had to actually do something to complete them and need to feel the payoff at the end. Look at the Wilds quest from Origins. Ultimately, it's a fetch quest, but it's tied so well into the story that you don't think of it that way. It's your first encounter with your primary enemy and you meet two important characters, one of which will be a party member. It's seamlessly blended with your main objectives and all it took was two short cutscene conversations.
ME didn't have as much of an exploration aspect as people claim. You liked reading about the planets, and that's cool, but exploring them didn't offer much, other than cool skydomes. The surfaces were just hills and valleys that were a pain in the ass to drive through.Contrast Therum where you had an actual objective and some things built on the planet to drive around and through. I liked that we could go down on these planets and I like the few things we could find, but the areas were far too large for how little there was to see. They should have been smaller and being easier to get around would have been nice too.
Yes, that was Klendagon and they really should have done something plotwise with the cannon that created that rift.
I didn't imply anything. I haven't played Inquisition, so my comments were hypothetical and using other players' impressions.
Slimmer is a good word for it. Cut the fat and put on a little muscle. Yeah, I'd rather have one good, interesting quest than 5 vapid quests. As I said before, there is a point at which there is too little content, no matter how good, but from what you say, there is a lot of good stuff in there.
Your analogy is weak. What if you did like FIFA and they suddenly turned it into Foosball style were you control a line rather than an individual player or made you play a whole game as a goalie, or even put three teams on the field at once? They have changed the essence of what Dragon Age was and there was no need to do so. Was it advertised that it was going to be that way? I don't seem to be the only one surprised or disappointed.
Also, the quests don't have to change to be extremely deep or involved, they just need to matter to the world going on. You need to feel as though you had to actually do something to complete them and need to feel the payoff at the end. Look at the Wilds quest from Origins. Ultimately, it's a fetch quest, but it's tied so well into the story that you don't think of it that way. It's your first encounter with your primary enemy and you meet two important characters, one of which will be a party member. It's seamlessly blended with your main objectives and all it took was two short cutscene conversations.
ME didn't have as much of an exploration aspect as people claim. You liked reading about the planets, and that's cool, but exploring them didn't offer much, other than cool skydomes. The surfaces were just hills and valleys that were a pain in the ass to drive through.Contrast Therum where you had an actual objective and some things built on the planet to drive around and through. I liked that we could go down on these planets and I like the few things we could find, but the areas were far too large for how little there was to see. They should have been smaller and being easier to get around would have been nice too.
Yes, that was Klendagon and they really should have done something plotwise with the cannon that created that rift.
Oh well that explains it.
I do not argue with your first point. I too would have preferred a slimmer game, but that is not what the game is. It's a formula that works for others and sucks for some. We cannot argue an objective viewpoint in this regard.
Regarding the analogy, you are fundamentally changing the rules of the game by using the Foosball reference. That would be the equivalent of turning Dragon Age into an action-adventure.
Dragon Age is still Dragon Age. Almost all aspects of it have been reworked but very little has been outright deleted.
You still have your lore, your conflicts, your companions, crazy Flemeth...etc...
You cannot use a main quest as an example of a fetch quest since most story quests inherently boil down to a "fetch quest" if you try hard enough.
The fetch quests we are discussing are the "side-content" that offers relatively little in story content.
Again you are using main quests (Therum) as examples of fetch quests. ME1's main quest can be resolved rather quickly. You only need to visit a few planets. You would miss out a LOT of ingame content if you just cut to the chase and that includes the exploration you are readily dismissing, as well as the story missions.
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I agree on one thing though... they should have done something with that rift.
They just went quantity>quality, at least with sidequests.
Someone will like it, someone will not, i myself am somewhere in between.
They just went quantity>quality, at least with sidequests.
Someone will like it, someone will not, i myself am somewhere in between.
It's not that easy to reduce sidequests into that inequality, especially when the scope of the game demands certain sacrifices be made in exchange for other benefits.
If you're in the Hinterlands and you're complaining, you need to get out of the Hinterlands. That's kind of a training area for newbies learning the ropes of how to play these games.
I'm really enjoying the game, but at times I ask myself "Is this a trial run for a Dragon Age MMO?"
I'm really enjoying the game, but at times I ask myself "Is this a trial run for a Dragon Age MMO?"
BIOWARE WILL NOT MAKE ANOTHER MMO
SWTOR by EA standards was a financial fail
I seriously doubt wow has more lore than the test universe.
I've played several games from both universes, and I've read the entire lore of warcraft as well as much of the TES lore so I have a pretty good idea.
If you're in the Hinterlands and you're complaining, you need to get out of the Hinterlands. That's kind of a training area for newbies learning the ropes of how to play these games.
I love how this is being parroted throughout the internet just because some site made an article. As if the entire game isn't plagued by endless low quality filler quests. Defending Bioware and their ridiculous implementation of such content does nothing but harm the potential of future releases. It's not OK to spam the game with copy and paste garbage calling it a 90 hour experience. This isn't an mmo, I shouldn't be collecting 10 apples when I'm supposed to be saving the world. And I'm sick of white knights, fanboys and those paid to post here. The game has issues, deal with it.
I love how this is being parroted throughout the internet just because some site made an article. As if the entire game isn't plagued by endless low quality filler quests. Defending Bioware and their ridiculous implementation of such content does nothing but harm the potential of future releases. It's not OK to spam the game with copy and paste garbage calling it a 90 hour experience. This isn't an mmo, I shouldn't be collecting 10 apples when I'm supposed to be saving the world. And I'm sick of white knights, fanboys and those paid to post here. The game has issues, deal with it.
but alot of the fetch quests have context, like when i get a "fetch" quest the quest giver gives me a story, has voiced dialogue, and it makes sense for the inquisition, AND sometimes they become agents
And yet open world doesn't mean random fetch quests. You can have an open world game and still have meaningful missions that don't spam the map with "collect 10 apples". The fact is, Origins did do this better simply because there were less of these "fetch 10 apples" quests. And yes they existed. But most of the time everything you were doing had a cutscene at the end with a conversation to reward the player, even if the decision(s) didn't matter.
The fact is this game DOES feel very mmo-y. Anyone that's played The Old Republic can immediately see the inspiration. I mean, people can sit here and be a white knight all they want, and doesn't help anyone hiding what the game actually is - a solid rpg with issues.
I agree, When I had to do a useless, "escort the lost animal" quest I was pretty much done with the side quests in this game. There is a reason why I stopped playing MMOs. It's because when I play a game I want to actually have fun not do yet another job I just got off from. I do understand that some people enjoy these type of quests but the amount of these quests in the game is tedious. I wish there was more balance. I'm at a point where I even hate the crafting and the Keep upgrades because it's all fetching and farming. It's such an MMO.
Right now the only side quests I do are the ones that fit the story best: the Inner circle quests and war table missions. Along with Keep capturing, and quests, and destroying fade rifts. Those are jobs for an Inquisitor.
IMO,I think what BW should have done was allow the metals and herbs a player first collects to be available for purchase at Skyhold. So collecting it unlocks the herb and metal and then the layer can opt to just buy it all from then on out. That would provide some decent balance between those who wish to save money farming and those who would rather by everything they need. Right now I have half a mind to call this game Dragon Age: Farmquisition. BW should have made it possible to assign unselected companions to any filler quest. If the player does not want to do it themselves. When you speak to the companion leading the group they can inform you of passes and failures, and agents acquired or lost. It would still keep the world rich while making the player feel like the inquisition is growing strong.
I love how this is being parroted throughout the internet just because some site made an article. As if the entire game isn't plagued by endless low quality filler quests. Defending Bioware and their ridiculous implementation of such content does nothing but harm the potential of future releases. It's not OK to spam the game with copy and paste garbage calling it a 90 hour experience. This isn't an mmo, I shouldn't be collecting 10 apples when I'm supposed to be saving the world. And I'm sick of white knights, fanboys and those paid to post here. The game has issues, deal with it.
But it is a 90 hour experience, to those that enjoy exploration and doing the content you deem unworthy.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. Your opinion is not more valid than anyone else's.
The entirety of my main post can be summed up in these lines:
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You see there's thing called a word budget. Mr. Gaider explains it far better than I ever could here.
To sum it up, writing is not a free-for-all. There has to be certain limits.
Consider this:
1) You have 12 companions, each of which offering hours of content and thousands of lines of dialogue in the form of quests, conversations, and banter.
2) You have a long main quest that has divergent paths.
3) You have TWO previous games that have an effect on the current world, leading to a different world state each time you play the game.
On top of all that, you are asking for "meaningful" side quests that are stories of their own
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And all I've seen you post is your opinion about how the quality sucks.
Jesus it's obvious the content isn't all equal. The side content still has context which you dismiss easily as if it were nothing.
"TOO MUCH OF AN OPTIONAL THING" is the entirety of your argument, which is ****** hilarious considering this is an interactive game where you choose what to do with your goddamn time.
Quit bitching about this and visiting this thread and do something more productive with your time if you have nothing useful to add, especially since your time is so valuable.
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