188 réponses à ce sujet

[Nitrocuban]

Open world and epic story are two competing things, you can't have 100% of both at the same time

[SwobyJ]

Open world and epic story are two competing things, you can't have 100% of both at the same time

 

No game is 100% of either anyway.

 

Give me any sidequests and suddenly the 100% epic goes to a 99% or lower. And I'm okay with that.

[Jazinto]

If exploration and open world means Dragon Age: Inquisition then I can do without it. Exploring ancient dwarven tombs for good loot was nice, collecting 10 ram meat and MMO-bracketed-leveling areas full of always respawning monsters less so. ME3 was epic. The world was ending. All the worlds were ending. There was one goal. Defeat the Reapers. Basically everything Shepard did was about defeating the Reapers (apart from the Citadel DLC). Pottering around in the Exalted Plains or wherever can be fun, but it takes away from the focus and the main story. For DA:I I had a drinking game. Everytime the bad guy was mentioned I took a sip. It was that stupid. I can take all the time I want to clean barbarians out of a stronghold or kill Bears for their hides, the bad guys just won't do anything while I'm off collecting shards.

It's ridiculous how many sidequests don't even have any dialogue and are picked up by finding random letters and documents lying around apparently everwhere. There is not one big memorable sidequest-line that comes to mind when I think about it.

 

Bioware often mentioned Skyrim when they talked about the big world and exploration in DA:I. Like a lot of people I've spend hundreds of hours in Skyrim and I haven't seen it all. It's a sandbox and you can do whatever you like. In DA:I when I've outleveled a region I will move on, because I won't get any XP and the loot in higher-level areas is better. Once you're done with the two highest-level areas there's nothing else to do. The game just ends.

 

tl;dr I like open worlds, but DA:I wasn't very good at it.

[Nitrocuban]

No game is 100% of either anyway.

 

Give me any sidequests and suddenly the 100% epic goes to a 99% or lower. And I'm okay with that.

Yes, and that is a good thing cause either 100% would make a bad game.

The question is only, what ratio the devs aim for. I like BW games for their story, if I'd wanna play an open wolrd game something like Skyrim/Fallout or GTA would be a better choice.

I fear BW reduces what they are best at just to do something else not as good as other teams have done for years already.

[Revan Reborn]

If exploration and open world means Dragon Age: Inquisition then I can do without it. Exploring ancient dwarven tombs for good loot was nice, collecting 10 ram meat and MMO-bracketed-leveling areas full of always respawning monsters less so. ME3 was epic. The world was ending. All the worlds were ending. There was one goal. Defeat the Reapers. Basically everything Shepard did was about defeating the Reapers (apart from the Citadel DLC). Pottering around in the Exalted Plains or wherever can be fun, but it takes away from the focus and the main story. For DA:I I had a drinking game. Everytime the bad guy was mentioned I took a sip. It was that stupid. I can take all the time I want to clean barbarians out of a stronghold or kill Bears for their hides, the bad guys just won't do anything while I'm off collecting shards.

It's ridiculous how many sidequests don't even have any dialogue and are picked up by finding random letters and documents lying around apparently everwhere. There is not one big memorable sidequest-line that comes to mind when I think about it.

 

Bioware often mentioned Skyrim when they talked about the big world and exploration in DA:I. Like a lot of people I've spend hundreds of hours in Skyrim and I haven't seen it all. It's a sandbox and you can do whatever you like. In DA:I when I've outleveled a region I will move on, because I won't get any XP and the loot in higher-level areas is better. Once you're done with the two highest-level areas there's nothing else to do. The game just ends.

 

tl;dr I like open worlds, but DA:I wasn't very good at it.

DAI was a first step. BioWare was really walking in the dark when it came to developing the game and how to pull it off. Admittedly, they put in a lot of filler in their more open world experience in order to try and prevent the indication that the environment was empty. It wasn't the best solution and it's far from perfect. That being said, Mass Effect is an entirely different franchise from Dragon Age, and its storytelling has always been superior, in my opinion. I don't really believe DAI and NME will have much in common outside of being BioWare games and almost certainly NME being open world. It is likely it will be more open world than DAI just because of the Mako and its need to be accessible and efficient.

 

While BioWare did use Skyrim as a major influence, they sure missed the point of why Skyrim is so popular. There are very few fetch quests in the game (primarily the radiant story). What drives the exploration is largely the dungeon crawler experience, of finding caves, nordic tombs, dwemer ruins, sunken ships, etc. where look and enemies can be found. That provides for a much more engaging and compelling experience rather than just killing mobs in an open field trying to get enough leather hides. I'm hopeful that with the next Mass Effect, BioWare will rectify their mistakes with DAI by reviewing Skyrim by seeing how BGS makes the world worth exploring and interesting.

 

The key is for there to be things worth finding that keep your interest, not litter the environment with mobs to give the sense of completeness.

 

Yes, and that is a good thing cause either 100% would make a bad game.

The question is only, what ratio the devs aim for. I like BW games for their story, if I'd wanna play an open wolrd game something like Skyrim/Fallout or GTA would be a better choice.

I fear BW reduces what they are best at just to do something else not as good as other teams have done for years already.

I'd say BioWare games have been 100% linear, theme parks for quite some time, especially with Mass Effect. I'd say The Elder Scrolls would be 100% the other way, as the main purpose of the game is freedom to do what you want. Yes, there are still stories and quests in Skyrim, but those merely compliment what the main purpose of the game is.

 

BioWare understands they need to evolve and constantly innovate to stay relevant. For years, RPGs have either been divided into story-driven, theme park experiences, like BioWare games, or open world sandbox experiences, like BGS games. BGS' Skyrim was a game change for the entire industry, selling well over 20 million copies (only GTA can compare) and showing that open world RPGs not only have longer retention and more replay value, but can just generate more money than any other kind of game.

 

In truth, open world is something BioWare always wanted to do. The problem is the storytelling and VO element of their games were already difficult and ambitious as it was, and their engines weren't built for open world. That changed with Frostbite 3, having one of the most advanced and powerful open world engines in the industry at BioWare's disposal. They recognize they can't remain linear and just tell one extremely good story anymore to stay relevant. BioWare recognizes they have to evolve, innovate, change, in order to remain competitive, and so they have a new goal: open world.

 

This isn't a bad thing either. It merely provides more choice and options for the players, while maintaining the structure of a storytelling experiences those who don't like open world games want. Everybody wins if the execution is successful. Thus, the possibility of more retention and broader exposure increases and the game will perform better than its predecessors. The idea of mixing the best of both worlds (choice-driven storytelling and an immersive open world) is ideally the perfect RPG.

 

It's something BioWare attempted with DAI and something CDPR is attempting with TW3 and CP2077. It's inevitable that BioWare will also attempt to achieve this goal with the next Mass Effect as well, and of course there have been rumors that BGS' Fallout 4 will have a voiced male/female protagonist for the first time in the studio's legendary history. RPGs are all going the same direction, and that is looking for that perfect balance between open world and compelling storytelling.

 

I'll be curious to see who pulls it off first. I always said long ago that the perfect RPG would be BGS' open world with BioWare's choice-driven storytelling. It seems finally the industry has recognized that and is striving to achieve that truly ambitious goal. I look forward to seeing it happen.

[DigitalMaster37]

If exploration and open world means Dragon Age: Inquisition then I can do without it. Exploring ancient dwarven tombs for good loot was nice, collecting 10 ram meat and MMO-bracketed-leveling areas full of always respawning monsters less so. ME3 was epic. The world was ending. All the worlds were ending. There was one goal. Defeat the Reapers. Basically everything Shepard did was about defeating the Reapers (apart from the Citadel DLC). Pottering around in the Exalted Plains or wherever can be fun, but it takes away from the focus and the main story. For DA:I I had a drinking game. Everytime the bad guy was mentioned I took a sip. It was that stupid. I can take all the time I want to clean barbarians out of a stronghold or kill Bears for their hides, the bad guys just won't do anything while I'm off collecting shards.

It's ridiculous how many sidequests don't even have any dialogue and are picked up by finding random letters and documents lying around apparently everwhere. There is not one big memorable sidequest-line that comes to mind when I think about it.

 

Bioware often mentioned Skyrim when they talked about the big world and exploration in DA:I. Like a lot of people I've spend hundreds of hours in Skyrim and I haven't seen it all. It's a sandbox and you can do whatever you like. In DA:I when I've outleveled a region I will move on, because I won't get any XP and the loot in higher-level areas is better. Once you're done with the two highest-level areas there's nothing else to do. The game just ends.

 

tl;dr I like open worlds, but DA:I wasn't very good at it.

 

I so disagree... It sounds like you never left the hinterlands. DA:I if you finish the game or get anywhere close to doing so, you will realize that the story is epic, and the game is open world. Totally possible to merge the two. They by far do not have to be mutually exclusive. The only thing holding those two apart are the teams and developers crafting the game...

[Schmonozov]

DA:I's story suffered heavily from the open world.

[goishen]

If exploration and open world means Dragon Age: Inquisition then I can do without it. Exploring ancient dwarven tombs for good loot was nice, collecting 10 ram meat and MMO-bracketed-leveling areas full of always respawning monsters less so. ME3 was epic. The world was ending. All the worlds were ending. There was one goal. Defeat the Reapers. Basically everything Shepard did was about defeating the Reapers (apart from the Citadel DLC). Pottering around in the Exalted Plains or wherever can be fun, but it takes away from the focus and the main story. For DA:I I had a drinking game. Everytime the bad guy was mentioned I took a sip. It was that stupid. I can take all the time I want to clean barbarians out of a stronghold or kill Bears for their hides, the bad guys just won't do anything while I'm off collecting shards.

It's ridiculous how many sidequests don't even have any dialogue and are picked up by finding random letters and documents lying around apparently everwhere. There is not one big memorable sidequest-line that comes to mind when I think about it.

 

Well, meh.   But you mentioned the ten ram meat quest earlier.  But yeh, I agree.  There's not one side quest mission that you like that you can remember.  I'm just barely past Act I (still waiting on the patch), and I can't think of one either.   Of course, my opinion of these things will prolly soften as I replay the game.

[spinachdiaper]

I would bet that there will be some level of open exporation areas and some railed straight forward mission areas. The real question is if they can balance them to overlap.

[ZipZap2000]

I'll never get why people complain about optional side quests being boring, the whole point of them being optional is you don't have to do them. Hell I haven't even received a request to fetch ram meat yet and I have 79 hours logged in (I honestly thought it was 72 holy crap).

[themikefest]

I like DAI and started my second playthrough last night

 

Not sure how an open world would work in ME, but that's not for me too worry about.

[cap and gown]

 

The key is for there to be things worth finding that keep your interest, not litter the environment with mobs to give the sense of completeness.

 

Heh. So far DAI reminds me of Cyrodil: a new mob every three feet. Skyrim really blew me away the first time I ran into three guys thinking "uh-oh" and then they offered me a mead. I was like "wow, not everything out here wants to kill me. there are interesting encounters to be had." That was a great reason to walk everywhere rather than fast travel.

[Nitrocuban]

ME1 did a pretty good job with a strong main story arc and some freedom inbetween main story missions for sidequests. 

I wouldn't say no to some additional, extended sidemissions that loosely connect to the main story but only if that does not mean BW cuts down the main story missions for it.

[ZipZap2000]

I doubt they'd cut down the main story after what happened with ME3. Things like auto dialogue, scanning planets. deleted scenes in a game that was lacking content have all been flagged by the community. DA:I addressed a lot of my concerns from DA2 it's not perfect (Still incredible) but it shows a change in attitudes. When people complained about things in DA:O and ME1 they flat out removed the concept from the game at the games expense. DA:I seems to want to improve on things rather than cut the concept out the game entirely.

[Hair Serious Business]

I want to play as other races...God!Being human in every game is just so overrated ):

[Revan Reborn]

Heh. So far DAI reminds me of Cyrodil: a new mob every three feet. Skyrim really blew me away the first time I ran into three guys thinking "uh-oh" and then they offered me a mead. I was like "wow, not everything out here wants to kill me. there are interesting encounters to be had." That was a great reason to walk everywhere rather than fast travel.

Anyone who fast travels misses 50% of what makes Skyrim truly unforgettable. The emergent gamplay and the encounters that you would never expect. It's just not the same experience if you aren't actually walking or riding across Skyrim.

[StealthGamer92]

Anyone who fast travels misses 50% of what makes Skyrim truly unforgettable. The emergent gamplay and the encounters that you would never expect. It's just not the same experience if you aren't actually walking or riding across Skyrim.

Or hunting, I'll never forget the first time I was hunting an elk only to run into first a thief then a pair of vampires.

[TruthSerum]

How would they keep an entire GALAXY interesting if it's open world? Most open world games are either a single city or big huge swaths of open areas filled with barely nothing. 

 

Without making the whole thing randomly generated how could it possibly be done without the game taking ten years and half a billion dollars to make? 

[Revan Reborn]

How would they keep an entire GALAXY interesting if it's open world? Most open world games are either a single city or big huge swaths of open areas filled with barely nothing. 

 

Without making the whole thing randomly generated how could it possibly be done without the game taking ten years and half a billion dollars to make? 

Star Citizen comes to mind. The idea is to build tools that allow you to create worlds and cities at a much faster rate by having assets that you can mix and match with ease. That being said, NME doesn't need a Destiny budget in order to pull this off, and I believe many want the worlds to at least open world, not the worlds, solar systems, and the entire galaxy. That would be nice, but that's not what I believe many are asking for. Again, Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are doing open world experiences such as that, however. The latter is largely relying on procedurally generated worlds and content.

[TruthSerum]

Star Citizen comes to mind. The idea is to build tools that allow you to create worlds and cities at a much faster rate by having assets that you can mix and match with ease. That being said, NME doesn't need a Destiny budget in order to pull this off, and I believe many want the worlds to at least open world, not the worlds, solar systems, and the entire galaxy. That would be nice, but that's not what I believe many are asking for. Again, Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are doing open world experiences such as that, however. The latter is largely relying on procedurally generated worlds and content.

 

No Mans Sky looks novel from a technological standpoint but no one has any idea if the individual planets will be interesting. As for Star Citizen, that game could either end up being great or end up being the biggest scam in gaming history. (I'm inclined to believe the latter)

 

Besides neither one of them are out yet and neither one of them have shown anything about how they would effectively address my previous concern about keeping an entire open world galaxy interesting in a way that would be practical. 

 

It seems like the BW fans that are claiming that BW stated that ME4 will be open world are setting themselves up again for a repeat of the whole "b..but Bioware lied to us about having our choices matter!!" mess. To me it all just seems so naive and unrealistic to think that the next game would have a complete openness of the galaxy and planet surfaces to the extend that some of these BW fans are expecting. 

[Revan Reborn]

No Mans Sky looks novel from a technological standpoint but no one has any idea if the individual planets will be interesting. As for Star Citizen, that game could either end up being great or end up being the biggest scam in gaming history. (I'm inclined to believe the latter)

 

Besides neither one of them are out yet and neither one of them have shown anything about how they would effectively address my previous concern about keeping an entire open world galaxy interesting in a way that would be practical. 

 

It seems like the BW fans that are claiming that BW stated that ME4 will be open world are setting themselves up again for a repeat of the whole "b..but Bioware lied to us about having our choices matter!!" mess. To me it all just seems so naive and unrealistic to think that the next game would have a complete openness of the galaxy and planet surfaces to the extend that some of these BW fans are expecting. 

We'll see how No Man's Sky turns out, but it's certainly impressive that an Indie studio is able to make such an ambitious project. As far as Star Citizen, Chris Roberts has the Wing Commander franchise under his belt, so while it's extremely ambitious and almost dream-like in execution, it's far from vaporware.

 

We can use Star Wars Galaxies as an example. The planets were open world. Sectors of space around planets were open world. It was admittedly an MMO and the driving force of content was community-based, but there were points of interest, hidden caves and secret quests, player housing, in-depth crafting, and much more that brought purpose and interest to each planet. NME certainly doesn't need to do that much, as it can look towards Skyrim, GTA V, Saint's Row, Just Cause 2, and various other games to grasph an idea about what does and does not work in an open world.

 

You are misconstruing the argument then. Nobody is asking for a pure open world experience. The OP, itself, is asking for an "open world like DA:I," which isn't actually an open world at all. What I believe many are expecting are for planets to be open world, but not necessarily anything else. Look at ME1, except much larger and with a lot more content.

[Linkenski]

Since they can actually borrow vehicle mechanics from BF with the frostbite engine, I bet ME4 will feel even better than DAI in terms of exploration.

Now I'm just crossing my fingers that we get a current gen only game this time.

[TruthSerum]

Since they can actually borrow vehicle mechanics from BF with the frostbite engine, I bet ME4 will feel even better than DAI in terms of exploration.

Now I'm just crossing my fingers that we get a current gen only game this time.

 

I just hope the character models in cutscenes are better in ME4 than DAI. That is BY FAR what they need to work on from a technical perspective when switching to the Frostbite engine. 

 

They also need to fire the lead character/design artist in charge of character models.....man, people in DAI are FUGLY. 

[Nitrocuban]

From what I've seen in Fallout 3/ New Vegas  random encounters could be a good addition to ME1-style planetary exploration. Couple of different enemies including hostile enemies like Tresher Maws and Mercs  to fight, some friendly groups to trade with or simple fetch quests etc and random loot.

[rubynorman]

I want a mass effect game to be massive. With explorable planets, each one is as big as a DA map is alright. But I want more stories tide to the side quest, something that matters, it's not just for gears or a genetic number. I want to have this feeling of exploring  the unknowing vass space. I want to be a wanderer just like this video. take as much time as you need Bioware ...