82 réponses à ce sujet

[Sadomatic Kouretes]

Before everybody piles on people running the game at ~15 hours out of distaste, I'd like to point out that the main story mission part of the game is indeed very short and it is mainly the inefficient manner that most people acquire power that tends to buff the run time of the game.

 

one would actually only need to explore 6 regions of the hinterlands to clear the story. smart side-questing in conjunction of save duping the efficient requisition quests (geological survey) will accumulate power very quickly. to illustrate how much redundant power there are in the game, ive stocked piled over 200 power at the end of my completionist play thru.

 

As to the actual main missions, the only fight that has a solid level requirement is the last wave of the haven assult, (anything below lvl 9 is borderline impossible, since u dont have the kit to deal with the adds) and every other fight can be pushed through even being considerably underlvled thru use of tonics and specing correctly. the missions itself provides large amount of items and sizable exp, further reducing the need to grind.

 

in this light storm coast/mire/oasis/graves/plains/wastes/lion does not ever need to be accessed, and the most efficient manner to level up would be to quickly hop from one rift to another (since they give set exp). In fact from a strict gameplay design perspective the only reason a player would access these regions would be for the power, which currently exists in ridiculous abundance.

 

If we are to resort skipping every single dialouge (provided you know all the "right" aka most power efficient dialogue checks), then the time could be further shaved. for instance the halamshiral quest could be done as quickly as 25 minutes, while the warden sequence can be crunched in just over 40 minutes.

 

surely many on this forum would find such line of gaming pointless, perhaps even borderline offensive. But I am merely writing this to demonstrate how the actual story content of DAI is thinner than DA2 and far so than DAO; that the game is really build on the back the wonderful, vast open worlds, and mostly importantly, the good will of the player to actually grind through these open worlds, since the story doesnt give you any incentive to do so.

[Vormaerin]

Depends on your definition of story content, I suppose.

[diagorias]

Except that the main story is not the only "actual story content".

In DAO you could also say that you grinded to get the approval of a faction only to move on to the next one, and I am pretty sure DA2 was shorter if you only did the main story quests. (not counting the gold grinding in the first act)

[LPPrince]

Sounds like you're taking a shot at what really amounts to a speed run.

 

You can speed run notoriously long games in record short times. Whats the problem? People will get what they get out of the game.

 

I'm currently around 80 hours into my playthrough and still haven't run into characters I know are in the game at some point.

 

Let people play at their own pace. Unless your point is simply that the main campaign is too short, in which case I would say that building the Inquisition up is part of that main story. Taking shortcuts there is taking shortcuts on the campaign itself, in such a case the blame falls on the player.

[Fishy]

You can complete Skyrim main quest in five hours. I guess Skyrim is a five hours game. By skipping all dialogue you can also drop this by a few hours.

 

Bethesda why you created such a short game.

[Savber100]

How about this?

 

This game allows you maximum flexibility for HOWEVER long you want to play. 

It's called choice. 

All that matters is that the consumer gets their money worth.

You believe you haven't? Good but don't go assuming that your choices are the same as mines. 

I got my money's worth and more. I played around 50 hours and I was rushing through side-quests. I enjoyed the main quest even though it's NOT perfect. 

If you want to nitpick that the MAIN STORY is only 10 hours in an RPG filled with side-quests, explorations, and character quests then fine. If you want to  speed run it and then claim that the story is too short then fine.  Yes, the game will be kinda short for you and I'm sorry that you ruined your DA experience by rushing through the very key of RPG which is immersion and role-play.

 

I could finish Half Life 2 within a hourly speedrun. Does this mean the game story is bad? NO. Story isn't defined by only the words spoken but by the environment and writings found within a game's universe. 

The developers promised that I will be spending days in the world of Thedas and I have with no regrets. 

 

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Sure you can complete the game in 10 hours, but doing so would be missing the point completely.

[Sadomatic Kouretes]

I have slept very little these days and churned through every region of the game and absolutely loved it, But:

 

I have picked such an inflammatory topic for just this; and all of your replies had indeed reinforced my view:

 

That there is very few motives in the story that directs you to these fabulous contents and a great deal of the player base will miss out on these hidden gems simply because the game is not actively pointing them to it (kinda the sad reality of games these days). Indeed most people will burn out from grinding 2-3 regions and push the story, after which there is very little incentive to sweep areas for content.

 

to me one is allowed to completely miss something as sublime as the hissing wastes or storm coast is utterly criminal and the story should force the player to explore at least 30% of every region. I hold the writers at fault for this.

 

Esp. considering bioware is marketing DAI as a "story driven RPG",

[AzukiJin]

Morrowind can be completed in like 10 min. If you skip everything

[jstme]

Heh,i am counting close to 50h in and did not finish main story yet. Do not intent to do so in near future,too. Game is just too fun.

Rushing through story just to prove that you can rush through story misses the point of this game,imo. Though i would easily have traded third of a hinterlands for another story mission .

[ORTesc]

This is the new model Bioware has chosen because they learned they could get away with it in their mmo. You make a single high quality story mission and surround it with 15-20 low quality "side missions". If, instead, they chose to focus on higher quality quests, especially within their mmo, they would have a higher reputation. But it's all about money, the passion is gone.

[Savber100]

I have slept very little these days and churned through every region of the game and absolutely loved it, But:

 

I have picked such an inflammatory topic for just this; and all of your replies had indeed reinforced my view:

 

That there is very few motives in the story that directs you to these fabulous contents and a great deal of the player base will miss out on these hidden gems simply because the game is not actively pointing them to it (kinda the sad reality of games these days). Indeed most people will burn out from grinding 2-3 regions and push the story, after which there is very little incentive to sweep areas for content.

 

to me one is allowed to completely miss something as sublime as the hissing wastes or storm coast is utterly criminal and the story should force the player to explore at least 30% of every region. I hold the writers at fault for this.

 

Esp. considering bioware is marketing DAI as a "story driven RPG",

 

Did you just admit that you're purposely picking inflammatory topics to simply stir up some replies? 

Also no.. I don't need any game developer to beat me over the head with "OH LOOK AT THIS" and hand held me in a game. 

 

To me, there is nothing more thrilling than walking in an open plain and discovering an entire scenarios without any direction from the story or developers. 

It's why I love games like Minecraft, Fallout, and GTA in where I make my own stories and discover things on my own even when the writing is telling me otherwise. 

It's MY experience and how I DO it is MY choice. 

Some people may not like it. Then this game isn't for them. They have plenty of other options in narratively-tight games out there. An open world RPG just isn't for them. 

You don't seem to have the problem of exploring so why are you assuming that other people are less observant? 

 

[AlanC9]

Morrowind can be completed in like 10 min. If you skip everything

I keep meaning to look at that vid. I've seen a pretty good one for Fallout 2.

Really, any game that's even slightly open-world has to let you do this to some extent; the more open, the more of a speed-run you can do. Either the sidequests are optional or they're not.

[Il Divo]

Honestly, isn't 10-15 hours pretty good for someone bum-rushing the main story? Thinking back to other Bioware experiences, I don't think they'd last you all that long if you ignored side quests, party member dialogue, and other gameplay mechanics. 

 

Hell, I'm about 16 hours in and I've been having a grand old time mixing exploration with dialogue/narrative. 

[Birdy]

Pfft. I can complete it in 10 minutes. "I'm your prisoner? Nah, I'll just run this way, bye guys!"

[scootshoot]

Sorry OP, this guys got you beat.

 

Baldurs Gate 2 speed run

 

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[berrieh]

But a game like DA:O had a lot of dreary/dull linear combat in each "story" mission, much of which didn't feel much like story to me (I love DA:O but running around the Fade and Deep Roads doesn't feel any more like story to me than running around the Hinterlands; less in many cases). Whereas all the "story" battles I've experienced so far in DA:I have felt like I was playing the story (similar to how I felt in Denerim fighting the Archdemon or fighting the Broodmother or whatever), rather than playing to "get" to the story (like a lot of the linear sections in DA:O). Then, the playing to "get" to the story is the open world. All they've done is give me options on where to grind - well, actually, that's not ALL they've done; they've also infused it into meaningful sections of the world that tell their own stories if you pay even the slightest bit of attention. 

 

This game has more dialogue in it than DA:O or DA:2 (both more dialogue to engage in and more dialogue to overhear). It also has plenty of story to read and view. I don't think it has "less" story but it has stories woven together in a fashion where the player can choose how to engage most of the story, except that 10 hours that you must see each time you play it. 

 

In the strategy guide, Mike Laidlaw did say his boss asked him to make a game that would take 10-100 hours (I think those are the numbers), meaning players had a lot of choice in how long it took, how they did things, etc. I think that's a wonderful concept, personally. I also don't think that only the mandatory main story quests = story.

[LordParbr]

I will say this. Power is FAR too easy to acquire. There just aren't enough things to spend it on, and far too many ways to get it.

[fizzypop]

To be honest I'm starting to feel that way too. By the time we get to skyhold I feel like the story is almost done even though it really should only be beginning. It worries me because that means there is less story driven content and dialogue than their should be. Which is very disappointing.

[fizzypop]

But a game like DA:O had a lot of dreary/dull linear combat in each "story" mission, much of which didn't feel much like story to me (I love DA:O but running around the Fade and Deep Roads doesn't feel any more like story to me than running around the Hinterlands; less in many cases). Whereas all the "story" battles I've experienced so far in DA:I have felt like I was playing the story (similar to how I felt in Denerim fighting the Archdemon or fighting the Broodmother or whatever), rather than playing to "get" to the story (like a lot of the linear sections in DA:O). Then, the playing to "get" to the story is the open world. All they've done is give me options on where to grind - well, actually, that's not ALL they've done; they've also infused it into meaningful sections of the world that tell their own stories if you pay even the slightest bit of attention. 

 

This game has more dialogue in it than DA:O or DA:2 (both more dialogue to engage in and more dialogue to overhear). It also has plenty of story to read and view. I don't think it has "less" story but it has stories woven together in a fashion where the player can choose how to engage most of the story, except that 10 hours that you must see each time you play it. 

 

In the strategy guide, Mike Laidlaw did say his boss asked him to make a game that would take 10-100 hours (I think those are the numbers), meaning players had a lot of choice in how long it took, how they did things, etc. I think that's a wonderful concept, personally. I also don't think that only the mandatory main story quests = story.

The problem lies that the side quests aren't adding to the main story (at least not most of them). They are just side stories which is nice and all, but doesn't actually make them part of the "story" of the game. I don't mind side stories and I even enjoy them, but when I get a book full of "side stories" and very little "main story" I think the author wasn't sure where they were going. This feels very much the problem with DAI. There should be more main stories. I think we closed the breach for example much too soon. The main story should be the FOCUS of the game while the side stories ADD to that focus.

[lastpawn]

One of my favorite games of all time, Fallout 2, can be beaten in like... 20 minutes?

 

Dark Souls, another favorite, can be beaten in under an hour. 

 

I don't see how speedruns reflect the quality of the game at all, however.

[Applepie_Svk]

Have to agree with this thread, back in DA:O you could find a very interesting sidequests, very few, but it gave to the world realy nice boost, like Ser Otto in Alienage or Ruck and few others. Most of those sidequests in the Inquisiition are realy sort of mmish quality, I believe that most lazy thing was that mage- templar resolution, this was totally dumb... Templars are gone due to red lyrium or mages are gone due to Tevinter and that´s it ? ! 

 

Have to say it, but in ME3 they atleast tried to finish a side stories properly, even if the ending suck... but now are some things just, nowhere ?

 

Yes, one could argue that Inquisition is about making an alliance, or creating an entire organisation against breach, but stil, you have two or three sides, blaming each other, two of them even killing each other, and by doing one decision the other side complitly vanish,

[Xd2delo]

 

The problem lies that the side quests aren't adding to the main story (at least not most of them).

 

^  This.  I've loved the game for the most part so far, but back when there were a lot fewer side quests, they felt more meaningful.  Now there are so many, if you're not careful, they kind of dilute the main story and companion stories.  Which, tbh, is probably about as long as the main story/companion stories in each previous installment of a Bioware game.  Compare w/ e.g. ME2, where the ratio of plot related side missions felt a lot higher.  Wondering if this means there will be a lot of plot meat on the bones of any DLC.

[Taleroth]

So it's still longer than the first two Mass Effect games.

[fizzypop]

One of my favorite games of all time, Fallout 2, can be beaten in like... 20 minutes?

 

Dark Souls, another favorite, can be beaten in under an hour. 

 

I don't see how speedruns reflect the quality of the game at all, however.

Just different strokes for different folks. I prefer a game that has more to the main story. I don't really enjoy most optional content and while it is nice every once in awhile I don't want it to be the main focus of the game like skyrim. Skyrim I'm sure is fantastic for some people, but for me it is the main reason I cannot get into the game. Not enough direction, main story isn't very compelling, and more focus on random bits than the main story. I'd rather the focus be on developing my character and the main story.