103 ответов в этой теме

[Ganen]

Isn't upgraded Veilstrike required to make sure you have enough Mana to cast spells like POTA which is 65 Mana?

 

Also are Dragons effected by Weakness the same as any other enemy or do some have resistances to it just like other conditions?

 

 

this

veilstrike when upgraded is easily one o the most underrated mage spells, its a VERY low mana cost VERY low cooldown control spell that setups added dmg for warrior talents (that take advantage of knockdowns) AND casts the bread and butter effect of rift mage -> weaken.

 

a well mixed rotation of veilstrike + immolate (or veilstrike + winter's grasp is winter spec) followed by pull of the abyss + fire mine (or frost mine/stonefist if frost) is how I found rift mage most efficient.

 

 

Where do you find Amulets of Power that grant your character skill points?  I have only found Amulets for party members.

 

1 in the fade, 1 in the locked door in Crestfal (needs deft hands perk) and there is 1 or two in waroom missions

[MikeFL25]

 

this

veilstrike when upgraded is easily one o the most underrated mage spells, its a VERY low mana cost VERY low cooldown control spell that setups added dmg for warrior talents (that take advantage of knockdowns) AND casts the bread and butter effect of rift mage -> weaken.

 

a well mixed rotation of veilstrike + immolate (or veilstrike + winter's grasp is winter spec) followed by pull of the abyss + fire mine (or frost mine/stonefist if frost) is how I found rift mage most efficient.

 

 

 

1 in the fade, 1 in the locked door in Crestfal (needs deft hands perk) and there is 1 or two in waroom missions

 

 

 

Damn, I just finished the Fade and I didn't come across one.

[VWS Blaze]

"Static Cage is rendered useless by the almighty Pull of the Abyss. Well not useless but redundant."

You're quite wrong about this. The two compliment each other extremely well. I played RM on my first play through and generally liked to start every encounter by pulling all the enemies together with PoA (which actually has range beyond the area it marks), then hitting them with chain lightning for some damage before the pull let's up, then as pull let's up you trap them with the static cage (upgraded for extra damage on following attacks), and then hit them with spells that blow them to the edge so they take more damage and become paralysed too

Pretty much everything dies in 8 seconds or so.

[odi0n]

then hit them with spells that blow them to the edge so they take more damage and become paralysed too.

I agree with everything you said, but, what exactly is this spell that *blows them to edge* leaving them paralyzed? Is there some whirlwind spell I am not aware of?

[CosmicGnosis]

I'm thinking about being a Rift Mage when I finally get around to this game, but is Knight Enchanter really that good? It's nice to see that the Arcane Warrior gameplay is better than ever, but I'm surprised that some people are saying that Rift Mage is sloppy. Bugs are annoying, but there are complaints that the Rift Mage also lacks an actual "theme", whereas Knight Enchanter and Necromancer make more sense as specializations.

[Arkahd]

I'm thinking about being a Rift Mage when I finally get around to this game, but is Knight Enchanter really that good? It's nice to see that the Arcane Warrior gameplay is better than ever, but I'm surprised that some people are saying that Rift Mage is sloppy. Bugs are annoying, but there are complaints that the Rift Mage also lacks an actual "theme", whereas Knight Enchanter and Necromancer make more sense as specializations.

 

Knight Enchanter is good to the point of making the game almost silly easy. Its damage is decent, but the fact that it's so unkillable even on nightmare is its biggest plus. Personally, it being so OP makes it feel really not worth my time though, I'll give it more of a shot if/when they tweak its barrier mechanics a bit.

 

As to Rift Mage having a theme or not. IMO, it has a theme, mechanically at least. It's the aoe controller debuffer, that strengthens itself by attacking its debuffed targets. It's the aoe control and debuff spec. As far as lore/visual theme, the only spells that don't seem to fit with its Rift oriented kit are stonestrike and firestorm. While both fit the mechanical theme perfectly fine, with both being oriented around 1 or more aspects of the whole aoe, debuff, and control themes. Visually, both feel a bit too much like they were trying to keep old spells around in some form. Stonestrike would be better as Rift Shatter or something, using the green rift crystals as a weapon. And firestorm could at least be green fireballs raining from the sky. As it is, visually it just feels like a random inferno spell.

[VWS Blaze]

I agree with everything you said, but, what exactly is this spell that *blows them to edge* leaving them paralyzed? Is there some whirlwind spell I am not aware of?

Exploding bolt works well as it knocks back all the enemies around your target. If there's any stragglers too far from that to effect them I like to have Vivienne run into them with upgraded fade cloak

[JaegerBane]

 
As to Rift Mage having a theme or not. IMO, it has a theme, mechanically at least. It's the aoe controller debuffer, that strengthens itself by attacking its debuffed targets. It's the aoe control and debuff spec. As far as lore/visual theme, the only spells that don't seem to fit with its Rift oriented kit are stonestrike and firestorm. While both fit the mechanical theme perfectly fine, with both being oriented around 1 or more aspects of the whole aoe, debuff, and control themes. Visually, both feel a bit too much like they were trying to keep old spells around in some form. Stonestrike would be better as Rift Shatter or something, using the green rift crystals as a weapon. And firestorm could at least be green fireballs raining from the sky. As it is, visually it just feels like a random inferno spell.

This.

When people say the rift mage lacks a them, they don't mean mechanics (although there seems to be confusion over whether its mechanics actually work or are bugged). It's really the fact that it's been hacked together out of old magic schools and it shows.

There isn't realistically any reason why a mage that studies the fade would miraculously work out how to shoot boulders or use firestorms. Veil strike and pull of the abyss have some relation but even they are just recoloured versions of similar spells from DA2's Force Mage spec. On top of this, the actual spec's focus is not particularly distinct from the basic elemental schools (AoE stun/debuff).

It's really a question of whether you're bothered about your specialisation having any flavour. It still actually works, it just doesn't really extend the class into new playstyles like the Necro or KE do.

[Arkahd]

On top of this, the actual spec's focus is not particularly distinct from the basic elemental schools (AoE stun/debuff).

It's really a question of whether you're bothered about your specialisation having any flavour. It still actually works, it just doesn't really extend the class into new playstyles like the Necro or KE do.

 

This is actually something I almost edited into my last post, but held off. But I actually think that works well for the spec on a mechanical and thematic level. The other two specs take the class in different (very different in KE's case) directions. Where the rift mage is sort of a mage+, it takes the things the mage is already good at as a class(compared to warrior/rogue), and makes them even better at them.

 

Thematically that kind of makes sense to me, cause I kind of see it as the mage using the power of the rift to fuel them (mana absorb passive), making them even better at the slew of things they can already do, not necessarily about them specializing to only using rift oriented magic. And mechanically, the spells and passives in the tree are good enough that they do make the spec feel like a sort of upgraded version of what they already had.

[draken-heart]

In regards to the "theme of the Rift mage" issue. The same thing can be said of the Knight Enchanter. It is simply a mix of arcane warrior, spirit healer and an ability from force mage.

1. Fad shield: This is basically just a different design of the arcane barrier and fade shield of origins.
2. The slow ability I am certain came from the force mage of Dragon Age two.
3. The spirit blade sounds like an ability from the spirit warrior of awakening.
4. The whole thing is a rehashed playstyle of the Arcane Warrior with a different name and description

Necromancer does not really change the play style of the mage, just adds more CC and spirit power to the mage (which is not that hard considering the spirit tree is all about the barrier spell now). Haste is not at all fitting the theme of the necromancer at all. Walking Bomb and Horror were in Origins and two.

 

None of the specializations really are new playstyles. If you played a warrior in this game, you played a knight enchanter, just without the fade cloak or distort time ability.

[JaegerBane]

In regards to the "theme of the Rift mage" issue. The same thing can be said of the Knight Enchanter. It is simply a mix of arcane warrior, spirit healer and an ability from force mage.

This is a bit of a stretch. It's an arcane warrior because it fights in close combat. It's a spirit healer because it happens to have a healing spell. It's a force Mage because it has some crowd control. You might as well say a mage with fade step is a scout cos it can teleport and a Mage with barrier is tank cos it can take hits.

The difference with the KE is that all its spells are all focused on using magic for personal defence. That can mean slowing down time around you, recharging your barrier, maintaining it, or simply phasing out so you ignore attacks entirely, but it is all basically about manipulating the fade to handle damage so that melee is a realistic option. Compared to trying to lump telekinesis, Gravity, rocks and fireballs into one particular tree, it's pretty coherent.

It's all academic, of course. Like the guy above said it's not really a specialisation - it's more what you do in the absence of one, as it's basically just a bag of extra spells for a normal mage. Whether or not it has a theme is only relevant if you're bothered about one.

As for whether it adds a new playstyle... Well, in comparison to a normal mage, the KE is anew playstyle. There are no spells in the basic schools that allow a Mage to tank or melee. Necro isn't quite as different but it is much more focused on manipulation and summons which, again, aren't really represented by the normal Mage schools.

[draken-heart]

This is a bit of a stretch. It's an arcane warrior because it fights in close combat. It's a spirit healer because it happens to have a healing spell. It's a force Mage because it has some crowd control. You might as well say a mage with fade step is a scout cos it can teleport and a Mage with barrier is tank cos it can take hits.

The difference with the KE is that all its spells are all focused on using magic for personal defence. That can mean slowing down time around you, recharging your barrier, maintaining it, or simply phasing out so you ignore attacks entirely, but it is all basically about manipulating the fade to handle damage so that melee is a realistic option. Compared to trying to lump telekinesis, Gravity, rocks and fireballs into one particular tree, it's pretty coherent.

It's all academic, of course. Like the guy above said it's not really a specialisation - it's more what you do in the absence of one, as it's basically just a bag of extra spells for a normal mage. Whether or not it has a theme is only relevant if you're bothered about one.

As for whether it adds a new playstyle... Well, in comparison to a normal mage, the KE is anew playstyle. There are no spells in the basic schools that allow a Mage to tank or melee. Necro isn't quite as different but it is much more focused on manipulation and summons which, again, aren't really represented by the normal Mage schools.

Neither is Knight Enchanter or Necromancer. None of the mage "specializations" are really specializations. A pyromancer (mage focusing on the inferno tree) is a specialization. The specializations are simply a different set of abilities (especially true for Necromancer and Rift Mage).

[JaegerBane]

Neither is Knight Enchanter or Necromancer. None of the mage "specializations" are really specializations. A pyromancer (mage focusing on the inferno tree) is a specialization. The specializations are simply a different set of abilities (especially true for Necromancer and Rift Mage).

I'm not really sure what this means. If you focus on one branch of magic then by definition, you're specialising. My point was that Rift Mage may be labelled a 'specialisation' but it's still basically about controlling and killing things before they get to you, which is basically the same thing as what the three elemental schools are about. The only real difference is the weakness mechanic.

[draken-heart]

I'm not really sure what this means. If you focus on one branch of magic then by definition, you're specialising. My point was that Rift Mage may be labelled a 'specialisation' but it's still basically about controlling and killing things before they get to you, which is basically the same thing as what the three elemental schools are about. The only real difference is the weakness mechanic.

the theme of the Rift mage is thematic, not mechanics-wise. All the abilities are related to the fade in some way. Who cares if the abilities are not "fitting" mechanics-wise. The mechanics of the knight enchanter are not all that unique at all, making less of a real specialization and more rehash.

Unless you played only mages and archers in all the dragon age games, the Knight Enchanter is not a unique "specialization." The Knight Enchanter is just an Arcane Warrior reworked to fit Inquisition, because the original abilities did not cut it. They then added "fade cloak" which is simply a magical shield wall, and the slow time ability, which I am certain was in the force mage skillset in DA II. I personally do not see the "specializations" as specializations, but advanced Skillsets.

[CosmicGnosis]

Yeah, it's starting to sound like this "Rift Mage lacks a theme" criticism is really just another farce, a random thing that people want to complain about because they need to complain about something.

[JaegerBane]

the theme of the Rift mage is thematic, not mechanics-wise. All the abilities are related to the fade in some way. Who cares if the abilities are not "fitting" mechanics-wise. The mechanics of the knight enchanter are not all that unique at all, making less of a real specialization and more rehash.

It's not a rehash at all. The arcane warrior was a class that allowed a Mage to suit up in warrior gear and fight in melee. Knight Enchanter is about melee-orientated spells. Sure, there's similarity because they're both about melee but they're hardly the same thing - i don't recall being able to slow down time or telefrag people as an AW.

As for whether 'who cares', that was the point I was making - it only matters if you want a theme. The class works regardless

Unless you played only mages and archers in all the dragon age games, the Knight Enchanter is not a unique "specialization." The Knight Enchanter is just an Arcane Warrior reworked to fit Inquisition, because the original abilities did not cut it. They then added "fade cloak" which is simply a magical shield wall, and the slow time ability, which I am certain was in the force mage skillset in DA II. I personally do not see the "specializations" as specializations, but advanced Skillsets.

I think this is the part I don't get. I'm talking about playing a Mage as a melee-capable spell caster. You can't do that with a warrior class. There are no other specialisations or classes in DA:I that allow you to do this. Sure, they may have been in previous games, but I'm not sure what relevance that has. I'm weighing up the three mage specialisations in DA:I.

[JaegerBane]

Yeah, it's starting to sound like this "Rift Mage lacks a theme" criticism is really just another farce, a random thing that people want to complain about because they need to complain about something.

not really, I was just pointing out that stonefist, firestorm and pull of the abyss don't really have anything to do with each other. No need to be rude.

[draken-heart]

not really, I was just pointing out that stonefist, firestorm and pull of the abyss don't really have anything to do with each other. No need to be rude.

And Spirit Blade, Fade Cloak and Distort time have nothing to do with each other, either, nor does a panic/horror, spirit mark, walking bomb, or haste have anything to do with each other.

The themes are thematic, the abilities do not need to fit each other, but the theme. Stonefist is summoning as boulder from the fade, Veilstrike is crafting a magical fist from the essence of the fade, pull of the abyss is a tiny rift that pulls things in (kind of like the trailer mark of the inquisitor/rift). Firestorm is like meteors from the fade I believe.

[JaegerBane]

And Spirit Blade, Fade Cloak and Distort time have nothing to do with each other, either, nor does a panic/horror, spirit mark, walking bomb, or haste have anything to do with each other.

Spirit blade is an odd one as it isn't a normal spell - indeed, it needs a physical item to trigger it, but stuff like fade cloak and distort (as well as the passives, resurgence etc) are all basically shielding spells that make you tougher. There's an obvious link there.

As for the Necro... Haste, I'll give you that. I dunno what that is doing in there. But I'm not sure why you'd say spells that terrify, ensnare souls and corrupt bodies all have nothing to do with each other. They're all basically death spells of varying types, the same way KE spells are all shields.

The themes are thematic, the abilities do not need to fit each other, but the theme. Stonefist is summoning as boulder from the fade, Veilstrike is crafting a magical fist from the essence of the fade, pull of the abyss is a tiny rift that pulls things in (kind of like the trailer mark of the inquisitor/rift). Firestorm is like meteors from the fade I believe.

That was my point. There's not much good reason for stuff like firestorm to be outside the inferno tree, and passing off a former earth magic spell as 'summoning boulders from the fade' is a bit of a cop out. Someone higher up said it best - why not rift crystals? Why not energy? Something related?

It doesn't really matter, though. Whether a class works for a person is down to its mechanics.

[draken-heart]

Spirit blade is an odd one as it isn't a normal spell - indeed, it needs a physical item to trigger it, but stuff like fade cloak and distort (as well as the passives, resurgence etc) are all basically shielding spells that make you tougher. There's an obvious link there.

As for the Necro... Haste, I'll give you that. I dunno what that is doing in there. But I'm not sure why you'd say spells that terrify, ensnare souls and corrupt bodies all have nothing to do with each other. They're all basically death spells of varying types, the same way KE spells are all shields.

Distort is a control, not a shield. Fade cloak is a temporary "shield", which a regular mage has in the first place. No need for redundancy, especially since the KE has more ways to keep barrier up than anyone.

Necromancy, walking bomb does not have a description of using spirits to do what it does. Spirit mark and two of the passives are the only things that do anything related to what the class is about.

[JaegerBane]

Distort is a control, not a shield. Fade cloak is a temporary "shield", which a regular mage has in the first place. No need for redundancy, especially since the KE has more ways to keep barrier up than anyone.

Distort is control, but it's strictly centred on the caster and obviously meant to stop attacks on the mage, not to cc the battlefield like cage or PutA do. As for barrier + fade cloak = redundancy.... Not really. They both work as shields but that doesn't mean that they're interchangeable.

Necromancy, walking bomb does not have a description of using spirits to do what it does. Spirit mark and two of the passives are the only things that do anything related to what the class is about.

It causes an enemies body to become an explosive. It should be fairly obvious what relation it has to other death spells. It's hard to understand why you can't see some common theme between spells that corrupt bodies and spirits into tools but think conjuring boulders and fiddling with gravity are the same thing.

[draken-heart]

Distort is control, but it's strictly centred on the caster and obviously meant to stop attacks on the mage, not to cc the battlefield like cage or PutA do. As for barrier + fade cloak = redundancy.... Not really. They both work as shields but that doesn't mean that they're interchangeable.


It causes an enemies body to become an explosive. It should be fairly obvious what relation it has to other death spells. It's hard to understand why you can't see some common theme between spells that corrupt bodies and spirits into tools but think conjuring boulders and fiddling with gravity are the same thing.

For fade cloak, it is a shield just like barrier. With all the other barrier passives the Knight Enchanter has, there is not much need to have fade cloak. Distort works just like the many crowd control effects the mage has, except that it is a mage-centered. Still a crowd control, not a shield, as a shield is meant to reduce damage, not control an enemy.

for Necro, Death=/=Spirits, which is what a necromancer is meant to be about. fail.

[SpaceV3gan]

I never wanted to play a KE because it changes the play style completely. Necro seems lackluster to me, because the heavy use of DOT isn't that appealing.

I am playing a new Inquisitor on Nightmare who happens to be a QunarI mage and I've just unlocked the Rift Mage specialization today.
Getting to Skyhold on Nightmare was brutal. It still is. For some reason my Qunari Mage gets a lot of aggro, much more than I would like to. I almost play as a CQC mage. Though the game got a lot better after I discovered the wonders of upgraded Fade Step. This ability is imperative now for my playstyle.
But other than that, I am still very confused on what build to go. Nightmare has had way more elite enemies and the bosses are a lot tougher. Though many claim the Rift Mage is awesome, I can't imagine it shinning on Dragon battles.

Well, I really would like to find some Nightmare committed builds and perhaps hints to get some shining new gear/schematic.

[Hermes_tri]

I have been thinking for long time before deciding on the spec for my mage. Basically, the way I see it - KE is a mage specializing in buffs and melee combat, which is fine but does not interest me much in this game. Necromancer is all about spirits and death, and it does look appealing but like the poster above said, too much DoT, not enough summons, just feels a bit slow, I like to play a more reactive mage and this is why I ended up with Rift Mage.

His spells feel perfectly thematic to me - its all about the Fade, and from speaking to Cole and Solar about that, and reading the rift book it looks like 'normal' mages can only work with specks of Fade that stick to them, and its near impossible for them to actually conjure large objects out of thin air. Even KE need the kilt in order to conjure the spirit blade! So after becoming the Rift Mage, you are able to work with Fade directly, not just with some small specks of it. Basically you can conjure boulders, use fade itself to affect the world and open small rifts between the worlds. The abilities you get are just showcase of this talents - Pull of the Abyss opens up a small rift, Veil strike uses Fade itself to knock down enemies and firestorm and stonefist basically open 'rifts' too in order to pull this matter into the world. I still wish Firestorm was green though!

Some other things, KE distortion field does not work with time at all, it fills the space with energy affecting enemies within. And as pointed out in some other thread, the reason for Haste being in Necro tree is basically Dorian. He is a necro and he teaches the Inquisitor during the Spec quest l, and, minor spoiler here, he is quire proficient in time magic. So that's how Inquisitor picks up Haste

And back to Rift Mage. I love the spec so far, really powerful and just feels good to use it.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am curious about something.

 

Which is better for a Rift Mage ? Frost Step or Winter's Grasp ?