392 réponses à ce sujet

[RSX Titan]

Again you are wrong. Sequels normally sell considerably more than the originals because consumers are more aware of the brand. DA2 sold far far less than DAO, DAI is on pace after the first week to sell less than DAO. Even though it is a small sample size in regards to DAI sales it still says something.
 
Look at ME series and you see ME2 sold slightly more than ME1 (360 version) and more than ME3. This says that there is no trend for going more action and cinematic oriented gains more sales.
 
Between 360 and ps3, DAO sold over 4 million copies even though it was designed and marketed as a PC game for most of its development cycle, did not have voiced pc, was not as action oriented or cinematic. DAI has been marketed almost exclusively for consoles and its combined console sales on first week are just under 1 million and that is with 2 more consoles. Considering the bulk of video game sales are within the first few weeks I would say DAI will sell less than DAO just on consoles alone.
 
Don't start saying random **** just because you think it is true when the facts do not support your claim.

I'm talking about overall trends in gaming smart guy.

[RVallant]

Yeah, no. Look at Larian with divinity and Obsidian with Pillars of Eternity and Torment. Game developers developing RPG's for the PC market. Games that simply won't run on Console due to their limitations.

I accept that BioWare has to appeal to the mainstream market and that's fine, just don't toss everything aside. Setable tactics for characters was a great innovation getting rid of it, not progressive.

 

Appealing to the mainstream is what caused the 2nd to flop, at least after the initial critic paid 10/10 rush, word of mouth and the power of the internet ensured it stunted quite quickly. Plenty of analysis from, ironically, the same critics who revised their belief that DA2 was GOTY "best thing since sliced bread" tends to identify one of the major causes for it doing so badly was that 'appeal to the mainstream'. 

 

RPG nuts are some of the more obsessive gamers, why do you think Wasteland 2 and Divinity even got kickstarted at all. Wasteland 2 was hilarious because modern publishers wouldn't even taken it on as it was percieved as 'too old school and not mainstream enough', yet that is a qualified success. Notice something about those two games?

 

They have a ton of 'modern gamer' negativity about it, generally non-RPG players who can't fathom why it isn't easy street, or can't be bothered to take more than five minutes to read the manual and figure out the simple mechanics. Appealing to those type of players thus waters down the mechanics of a game that the core fanbase seems to thrive on, so you alienate the RPG fans and get a few people with the attention span of gnats (like some of those in here arguing that RPG fans are nerds, heh) and the result is you cull your sales.

 

Again you are wrong. Sequels normally sell considerably more than the originals because consumers are more aware of the brand. DA2 sold far far less than DAO, DAI is on pace after the first week to sell less than DAO. Even though it is a small sample size in regards to DAI sales it still says something.

 

Look at ME series and you see ME2 sold slightly more than ME1 (360 version) and more than ME3. This says that there is no trend for going more action and cinematic oriented gains more sales.

 

Between 360 and ps3, DAO sold over 4 million copies even though it was designed and marketed as a PC game for most of its development cycle, did not have voiced pc, was not as action oriented or cinematic. DAI has been marketed almost exclusively for consoles and its combined console sales on first week are just under 1 million and that is with 2 more consoles. Considering the bulk of video game sales are within the first few weeks I would say DAI will sell less than DAO just on consoles alone.

 

Don't start saying random **** just because you think it is true when the facts do not support your claim.

 

Shame though.

 

Do you have any sources for sales information?  I'm curious to look into this in more depth.

 

I think it's VGchartz, I don't think Bioware ever released sales numbers but; (figures are in millions)

 

DA:O = 2.49 on Xbox, 1.58 on PS3 

DA 2 = 1.07 on Xbox, 0.76 on PS3 

 

Those aren't strictly reliable numbers though but they're a good indicator. At least Origins was a 'Triple Plat' so it definitely hit 3million worldwide minimum, but it's a big drop in numbers.

 

I'm talking about overall trends in gaming smart guy.

 

Overall trends in gaming isn't always a good thing, EA in particular are usually a good few years late to the trends anyway.

[danielkx]

I'm talking about overall trends in gaming smart guy.

 

Give some examples of overall gaming trends. I listed relevant examples and stats, you have simply stated your opinion as to the state of gaming and sales.

 

Since most of console gaming has been tailored for several years towards actiony combat and gameplay (due to the limited uses of gamepad versus kbm) you will find it difficult to prove your statement.

 

You simply make statements that have no basis too them, try using statistics.

[ZaratanCho]

Well i played Origins for the first time just before the release of Inquisition and finished it with all the dlc etc. and can easily say Origins is a better RPG and a better game as well. I have also finished Inquisition(~80-85 hours). 

[ManleySteele]

Pools of Radiance was better than Baldur's Gate. The move from 6 party members, all created and managed by the player to 4 party members left me scratching my head. Also, the combat was better in Pools of Radiance.  The only place that BG advanced the genre was including romance options.

 

Tongue in cheek in case I'm being too subtle.

[whiteravenxi]

Well i played Origins for the first time just before the release of Inquisition and finished it with all the dlc etc. and can easily say Origins is a better RPG and a better game as well. I have also finished Inquisition(~80-85 hours). 

 

Really? Did you skip the Mage Tower slogfest? "Climb this tower forever, okay now into the fade for HOURS. Let's get lost and solve a bunch of puzzle things of gibberish." Woohoo! Here's +1 dexterity!

 

Or how about the padding through the Deep Roads? On and on... so many caves. 

 

I've played DA:O at least 6 times and I staunchly disagree that it's a better RPG and a better game than DA:I. It was amazing for the time and I loved it back in 2009, but I don't think you could pay me to go through it again. 

 

Edit: just realized you played it for the FIRST time. I guess in that context it'd come down to preference, but still. There was some janky and questionable design choices in Origins. You couldn't respec. There was no personalization (i.e., one camp site no matter where you were in the world). Crafting was odd and cumbersome. You always needed to have a mage as a healer, especially on higher difficulties. Not to mention the awful graphics. I had to mod it like crazy. I think I even found a mod that straight up allowed me to skip most of the Circle Tower and the Fade.

 

Oh and let's not forget: Give gifts for sex.

[wrdnshprd]

Really? Did you skip the Mage Tower slogfest? "Climb this tower forever, okay now into the fade for HOURS. Let's get lost and solve a bunch of puzzle things of gibberish." Woohoo! Here's +1 dexterity!

 

Or how about the padding through the Deep Roads? On and on... so many caves. 

 

I've played DA:O at least 6 times and I staunchly disagree that it's a better RPG and a better game than DA:I. It was amazing for the time and I loved it back in 2009, but I don't think you could pay me to go through it again. 

 

Edit: just realized you played it for the FIRST time. I guess in that context it'd come down to preference, but still. There was some janky and questionable design choices in Origins. You couldn't respec. There was no personalization (i.e., one camp site no matter where you were in the world). Crafting was odd and cumbersome. You always needed to have a mage as a healer, especially on higher difficulties. Not to mention the awful graphics. I had to mod it like crazy. I think I even found a mod that straight up allowed me to skip most of the Circle Tower and the Fade.

 

Oh and let's not forget: Give gifts for sex.

 

subject opinions are subjective..

 

personally i liked BOTH DA:I and DA:O.. i think origins has better music.. its a bit more bloody.. and i preferred the tactical combat in that game (as do a large portion of the PC playerbase) over the action/MMO combat of DA:I. 

 

as for DA:I.. i like the larger maps, it looks really good graphically (though again.. sad that they removed the gore from origins), and the crafting system is far superior to Origins.

 

so each games has their ups and downs..  and IMO, the downs of DA:I didnt have to be there..  all they had to do was keep the PC controls from DA2.. if they would have done that this game would be one of their best.. sadly they didnt, and thus you have the mixed reception.

[Damazig]

 

I've played DA:O at least 6 times and I staunchly disagree that it's a better RPG and a better game than DA:I. It was amazing for the time and I loved it back in 2009, but I don't think you could pay me to go through it again. 

 

Edit: just realized you played it for the FIRST time. I guess in that context it'd come down to preference, but still. There was some janky and questionable design choices in Origins. You couldn't respec. There was no personalization (i.e., one camp site no matter where you were in the world). Crafting was odd and cumbersome. You always needed to have a mage as a healer, especially on higher difficulties. Not to mention the awful graphics. I had to mod it like crazy. I think I even found a mod that straight up allowed me to skip most of the Circle Tower and the Fade.

 

Oh and let's not forget: Give gifts for sex.

So wait, you hated the game, but played it 6 times? 6 playthroughs?

 

And yes, when someone says he prefers Origins to Inquisition, it's a matter of preference... and it doesn't matter the context, or that it was his first playthrough, I'm playing Inquisition on hard with friendly fire on, and going on 140 hours on just one playthrough that I haven't finished, I'm loving it, and I STILL prefer Origins.

 

So you say there was no personalization in Origins? You could build loads of different specs on it, especially as a mage. Here you're only talking about the looks of your base, not variety of builds or gameplay.

 

In this game you only have the illusion of variety. For a decent working build you'll be spamming Barrier most of the time, then you'll have enough mana for 1 more spell then wait for cds and use the same spells again, you rarely get to use more then 2 or 3 different spells in a fight cause of this. Also, you could call this mage's mana something like "blue action bar" since it's also only 100 mana, and you don't get more than that... and then you still have to go through and choose several spells you won't get to use because you can only have 8 spells to use at a time.

 

Crafting in Inquisition is still odd and even more cumbersome than Origins, making it even worse due to the crappy console port user interface that PC gamers get stuck with.

 

You say you had to use at least one mage as a healer? here you still have to have every single one of your mages have the barrier spell, but lets talk about healing then.

No healing spells or healers creates better fights? in what way, you'll still have to use at least a mage on a decent difficulty, you'll spam pots FREE health pots or spam revive downed followers, by a "healer" spell or by having any of your followers run up to the corpse and revive him in 5 seconds. Currently I'm playing on hard with friendly fire on, hand have 12 free shared health pots that can be spammed, followed by 20 health regen pots that cost 1 common plant each and 12 AoE grenade heals than cost nothing as well.

Lets also not talk about god mode specs such as the unkillable Knight Enchanter that can solo pretty much everything while being under lvl for it.

 

Awful graphics? in 2009 Origins didn't look that bad and at least it was modable. Inquisition according to the developers, doesn't have their support, and is also very hard to do without support, especially since its frostbite.

[whiteravenxi]

So wait, you hated the game, but played it 6 times? 6 playthroughs?

I never said I HATED it. I said it was great for the time. 6-7 playthroughs at the time was a lot of fun, but today I prefer DA:I. Hands down.
 

And yes, when someone says he prefers Origins to Inquisition, it's a matter of preference... and it doesn't matter the context, or that it was his first playthrough, I'm playing Inquisition on hard with friendly fire on, and going on 140 hours on just one playthrough that I haven't finished, I'm loving it, and I STILL prefer Origins.

I never said it wasn't a matter of preference. My preference is DA:I. Yours is Origins. To each their own. I can disagree with your preference as you disagree with mine. No big.
 

So you say there was no personalization in Origins? You could build loads of different specs on it, especially as a mage. Here you're only talking about the looks of your base, not variety of builds or gameplay.

Ehhh.. the AW was just as broken as the Knight Enchanter. Same thing for the DW Warrior. Both games have broken builds. Well, all the DA games do (2H Warrior in DA2 was totally OP). At least this time around there's enough trees that I can quickly surmise what each will give me and how it relates to other party member builds. I also don't feel like I have to pick a broken build to progress. My Assassin rogue is tearing it up.
 

In this game you only have the illusion of variety. For a decent working build you'll be spamming Barrier most of the time, then you'll have enough mana for 1 more spell then wait for cds and use the same spells again, you rarely get to use more then 2 or 3 different spells in a fight cause of this. Also, you could call this mage's mana something like "blue action bar" since it's also only 100 mana, and you don't get more than that... and then you still have to go through and choose several spells you won't get to use because you can only have 8 spells to use at a time.

 
You say you had to use at least one mage as a healer? here you still have to have every single one of your mages have the barrier spell, but lets talk about healing then.
No healing spells or healers creates better fights? in what way, you'll still have to use at least a mage on a decent difficulty, you'll spam pots FREE health pots or spam revive downed followers, by a "healer" spell or by having any of your followers run up to the corpse and revive him in 5 seconds. Currently I'm playing on hard with friendly fire on, hand have 12 free shared health pots that can be spammed, followed by 20 health regen pots that cost 1 common plant each and 12 AoE grenade heals than cost nothing as well.
Lets also not talk about god mode specs such as the unkillable Knight Enchanter that can solo pretty much everything while being under lvl for it.

I remember Haste being far as f*ck down a tree full of useless things I didn't want. And mana / stamina management being a potion spam fest in DA:O too. Worse because of the heal spell cooldown and injury concept on downed party members. Here, you have to use barrier if you want. If you can micro manage (which is clunky, I will give you that) you can mitigate damage and rely on regen pots here and there. I currently use two ranged AI, cass as a tank, and play soley my main rogue. If I roll without Barrier playing on hard I'm fine. Cass is set to defend my ranged and the ranged follow my rogues targets.
 

Awful graphics? in 2009 Origins didn't look that bad and at least it was modable. Inquisition according to the developers, doesn't have their support, and is also very hard to do without support, especially since its frostbite.

I agree that it was gratefully moddable and that was a boon. It comes down, as you said, to a matter of preference. Neither DA game is perfect, but I will always prefer this version over DA:O.

In summary, my argument in this thread, which isn't directed at anyone in particular, is boiled down to the fact we all wear nostalgic glasses when remembering older games. But if you fired up the DA:O forums back in the day you'd see the same arguments being repeated now. There's no pleasing people sometimes, but let's not get up on pedestals and decry DA: O as a perfect example to measure these sequels against. It comes down to taste.

[Deepsetsoul]

So basically OP says Bioware doesnt have to make good games.

 

We have to think decent games are amazing or we are ungrateful?

 

You are ungrateful if you receive a gift and complain about it.

 

I PAID for this game.

[ZaratanCho]

I played Origins on hard, and the graphics are not terrible at all, looked fine even today. Sure Inquisition looks impressive and is pretty but this alone doesn't mean much.

 

Of course Origins it is not a perfect game and it has mostly minor problems here and there i never said otherwise(it have even frustrated me slightly some times). After 6 playtrhoughs it makes sense that it will be a bother going through some places again, took me around 100 hours(not sure though) for 1 playtrough. I actually liked the fade part in the circle tower later in the game. There is even a 'callback' of it in inquisition.

 

As far as role playing and sidequest and encounters Origins is far superior. Sidequests in inquisition are very generic forgettable and irrelevant, kill this demon, kill this person, take this - no dialogue(not even the enemy general saying a few words before charging you and you making him into a stain on the floor and suddenly realising it was not just some bandit after picking up some note or getting a quest mark for example), no options nothing, the slight illusion of actually doing something breaks down completely after the end of the main story, feels more like a mindless grind and collectibles hunt after that. I just did one sidequest that i found just now. It seemed interesting at start and when you got to your goal a demon popped up killed him and it was the end, nothing, quite hollow. A bit tired of walking around a map and killing mindless loot bags charging you.

 

If they just made a few solid side quests thrown into the mix there it would have been far, far better.

 

Also not having your character voiced in origins is a big plus for me since i want to roleplay and it also gives more dialogue options.

 

Inquisitions story is interesting and the characters are great with interesting stories as well. The only thing that makes it worth it. I also have the banter/music bug so a barely had any, and no interactive banter which sucks. I will wait for a bunch of patches and probably do a second play through.

 

Not going to get into combat and mechanics. Graphics and big maps are awesome for.. walking around. The games is pretty good only thanks to the story and the main characters. 

[Lord Vallis]

You know I hadn't realized that power might be annoying to get later in the game, if so then that is a legitimate critique, though I wonder if it could/should be differently.  The concept of needing power to achieve your objectives is great, but maybe it shouldn't all be done by the Inquisitor.  Is it possible to have operations that increase your power?  So far I've only seen Influence as a reward for operations.  

 

Perhaps to make the system a little better for those who just aren't into all the side content is to have one optional way of increasing power be through the War Table.  Doesn't make sense that the leader is the one getting all this **** done, if you want to just hang back in your castle for a bit and send your agents to do the quests and increase power you should be able to.  

Unless I'm mistaken you can buy influence (power) at a merchant once you get to Skyhold.  Which, if one doesn't get sidetracked by side quests (woo! Shiny!) and sticks to the main plot, could be relatively early in the game.  Bribery ftw!

 

I have not use that merchant myself, because if I see an objective on a map and it is reasonably close, I am compelled to to investigate.  Therefore I have more power than I can ever spend.  Look, a butterfly!

[AshesEleven]

Unless I'm mistaken you can buy influence (power) at a merchant once you get to Skyhold.  Which, if one doesn't get sidetracked by side quests (woo! Shiny!) and sticks to the main plot, could be relatively early in the game.  Bribery ftw!

 

I have not use that merchant myself, because if I see an objective on a map and it is reasonably close, I am compelled to to investigate.  Therefore I have more power than I can ever spend.  Look, a butterfly!

 

See I thought he only sold influence, but I guess he gives both.  You still need a bit of money but you're right, it does make things easier.

[Greetsme]

If DAI is the future of gaming, then God help us all.

[dantares83]

reviving this thread to tell people that while DAO is great, please move forward and focus on the good of DAI instead of living in past glory.

[ORTesc]

I didn't know Dragon Age Origins was 20 years old, but apparently the OP is onto something here. If I am soooooooo good, I should probably go make a video game instead of voicing my opinion about a series (and developer) I've been following for years. How dare I, the blasphemer, dare question the direction chosen of what was once called the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate"!

 

This is 2014 people! How dare we have anything other than constant orc slaughter in our video games?!

[dantares83]

I didn't know Dragon Age Origins was 20 years old, but apparently the OP is onto something here. If I am soooooooo good, I should probably go make a video game instead of voicing my opinion about a series (and developer) I've been following for years. How dare I, the blasphemer, dare question the direction chosen of what was once called the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate"!

 

This is 2014 people! How dare we have anything other than constant orc slaughter in our video games?!

 

ok, so go on and be a Dalish. Look where that got them. discriminated, old-fashioned, poor, useless, be left alone and blah blah blah and worst of all, it is now known that even the Ancient Elves despise them.

[Realmzmaster]

If DAI is the future of gaming, then God help us all.

If DAI is the future of gaming ,He has already helped us! I would like some more of that helping.

[FaWa]

reviving this thread to tell people that while DAO is great, please move forward and focus on the good of DAI instead of living in past glory.

lol. Regardless of one's opinion on the game, criticism is very important. If everyone had said this after DA2 and we stopped "living in the past" and just talked about how much we loved it, god only knows what DAI would be like.

 

Regardless, I agree that the open world 100% flopped in this game. And I suspect more will come to realize that when they do subsequent playthroughs. The non-companion side quests in this game are for the most part really really bad. There really is no getting around that, like half of them are started by reading notes, barely any have actual plotlines beyond "Find this" or "rescue my relative/friend/lover!" Does anyone actually ****** enjoy this?

 

Clearly, like Bioware had said all through development, Skyrim heavily influenced this game. Hopefully they either realize what makes Skyrim open world successful and work to achieve that, or they just scrap open world all together. Because this currently is just running around VERY boring landscapes and doing side quests that are atrociously bad by Bioware standards. 

 

 I do not enjoy the power system, especially because you have to do the abhorrent side quests in order to gain power. 

 

That being said, the main story is done well and I enjoy it very much, bravo Bioware.

[UniformGreyColor]

Huzzah! I did not see this thread before. I'm glad I stumbled upon it now. We are of like mind. The few who like and defend this game. I have a thread also which I would not have posted if I saw this one first. Link

[ORTesc]

The hilarious part here is that what makes Skyrim so successful is mods and quality content. It's like Bioware had a check list and scratched off everything important.

 

1: huge open world? na let's just make big open zones!

2: mods? WE MAKE THE CONTENT!

3: quality sidequests? 10 ram meats!

4: easy ways to travel? Have a horse.

5: customization? Put up drapes in your house.

[dantares83]

lol. Regardless of one's opinion on the game, criticism is very important. If everyone had said this after DA2 and we stopped "living in the past" and just talked about how much we loved it, god only knows what DAI would be like.

 

Regardless, I agree that the open world 100% flopped in this game. And I suspect more will come to realize that when they do subsequent playthroughs. The non-companion side quests in this game are for the most part really really bad. There really is no getting around that, like half of them are started by reading notes, barely any have actual plotlines beyond "Find this" or "rescue my relative/friend/lover!" Does anyone actually ****** enjoy this?

 

Clearly, like Bioware had said all through development, Skyrim heavily influenced this game. Hopefully they either realize what makes Skyrim open world successful and work to achieve that, or they just scrap open world all together. Because this currently is just running around VERY boring landscapes and doing side quests that are atrociously bad by Bioware standards. 

 

 I do not enjoy the power system, especially because you have to do the abhorrent side quests in order to gain power. 

 

That being said, the main story is done well and I enjoy it very much, bravo Bioware.

 

some of them are fetch quests but all games have them, even the 'best game of all time' DAO.

 

but some are quite well-done. The main quest in Emprise du Lion and Crestwood are long and have meanings.

[Kinsz]

If DAI is the future of gaming ,He has already helped us! I would like some more of that helping.

Amen to that , i hope that this is the format Bioware keeps for the next Dragon Age as well though with more meaningful sidequests and a couple of more hours of story.

[FaWa]

some of them are fetch quests but all games have them, even the 'best game of all time' DAO.

 

but some are quite well-done. The main quest in Emprise du Lion and Crestwood are long and have meanings.

You can not tell me that DAO's ratio of fetch quest to good side quest was anywhere close to how bad DAI's is. 

[Kinsz]

lol. Regardless of one's opinion on the game, criticism is very important. If everyone had said this after DA2 and we stopped "living in the past" and just talked about how much we loved it, god only knows what DAI would be like.

 

Regardless, I agree that the open world 100% flopped in this game. And I suspect more will come to realize that when they do subsequent playthroughs. The non-companion side quests in this game are for the most part really really bad. There really is no getting around that, like half of them are started by reading notes, barely any have actual plotlines beyond "Find this" or "rescue my relative/friend/lover!" Does anyone actually ****** enjoy this?

 

Clearly, like Bioware had said all through development, Skyrim heavily influenced this game. Hopefully they either realize what makes Skyrim open world successful and work to achieve that, or they just scrap open world all together. Because this currently is just running around VERY boring landscapes and doing side quests that are atrociously bad by Bioware standards. 

 

 I do not enjoy the power system, especially because you have to do the abhorrent side quests in order to gain power. 

 

That being said, the main story is done well and I enjoy it very much, bravo Bioware.

mm dont know about you but i found capturing keeps pretty fun or the puzzles in those hidden dungeons , ah takes me back, clearly Bioware has tried to add an old school touch to this game but its sadly lost on many.