392 réponses à ce sujet

[_Motoki_]

Origins and DA2 were tactical RPGs where Inquisition seems to be more of an Action RPG. However, Action RPGs are mostly, if not all, with one character, not a party, so it's rather odd.

 

Wait, Dragon Age 2 was a tactical RPG? Was I even playing the same game? Are we talking about how you set the companion AI or is there some other aspect I totally missed? All I remember was enemies dropping from the sky, hold the R key (because we weren't allowed to use a controller for an obviously designed around a controller game; don't get me started), smash smash smash, bodies exploding.

 

As for DA:I I find it plenty tactical. Do you even own the game or are you just basing this off of other people's opinions? I see you inserting your opinion all over the place around here but "seems to be" isn't exactly a confident statement of someone with first hand experience.

 

Now I admit I am using a controller on the PC with DA:I (because we finally can!) so there's some difference of experience there, but the tactical mode for me has been, oddly enough, quite tactical. I can stop and take time to make my decisions, decide who is doing what then control the flow of time. It's almost like a turn based game and that's great for me for the more difficult battles. For the common ones I'm more inclined to get through them more quickly with 'action' mode, but the game gives you a choice and I like that.

[stevemill]

I'm not finding anything problematic about the PC controls.  They are standard WASD.  The Tact-cam needs work but once I figured out what was going on it's no biggie.  In combat auto-attack isn't an issue as the other party members are using their skills and basic attack.  Automatically closing to attack isn't missed as there are specific gap closer skills that I'm finding fun to use.

 

Generally it plays like a lot of MMO's like Guild Wars 2, Rift and Elder Scrolls Online and that's working great for me.

 

Combat could be better but I am enjoying it anyway.

 

If the Tact-Cam and the UI improve then I won't complain mind you but so far DAI is blowing me away. It's probably the best of the series for me but I enjoyed the first two enormously in their different ways.

[Akka le Vil]

I agree. I know each year we keep on seeing more and more graphically stunning games, but the cost associated to achieving that on a PC, the constant upgradation what with Nvidia churning out new cards like anything is damn high. And it's not that those graphics are assisting much in your gameplay experience. Console graphics are well enough.

This argument is fifteen years outdated, man.

The "rush to the latest hardware" was very real in the nineties, but slowed down A LOT in the early 2000's and is now completely of the past. The "you need to upgrade every six monthes" has been false since more than ten years now, people are just mindlessly repeating echoes of the past. You just need to buy a new graphical card from time to time, and that's just something like 150-250 € every few years (the 600 € cards are extreme high-end, and you absolutely DO NOT need them for anything but bragging rights).

 

My main PC is nearly four years old, not a single internal part changed during this time, and still run everything in high settings. My secondary PC is able to run most games at high settings, has only received GPU upgrade, and dates back to 2005.

I've upgraded my SCREENS more often than my computers in the past decade, actually.

 

So the usual cost argument against PC ? I call BS on that.

[AlanC9]

Wait, Dragon Age 2 was a tactical RPG? Was I even playing the same game? Are we talking about how you set the companion AI or is there some other aspect I totally missed? All I remember was enemies dropping from the sky, hold the R key (because we weren't allowed to use a controller for an obviously designed around a controller game; don't get me started), smash smash smash, bodies exploding.

Hold the R key? I don't recall having to do that.

I'm also not clear how the enemy reinforcement waves make DA2 not "tactical," unless "tactical" means being able to pre-plan your battles.( The way we're using "tactical" on this board is a mess.)

[In Exile]

Hold the R key? I don't recall having to do that.

I'm also not clear how the enemy reinforcement waves make DA2 not "tactical," unless "tactical" means being able to pre-plan your battles.( The way we're using "tactical" on this board is a mess.)

Often tactical is a reference to the combat being slow in real time. This is the most confusing usage for me.

[stevemill]

I'm running it on an i5 that's maybe 3 years old, with a mid range GT card I bought 9 months ago, with all settings on Ultra.  It runs with little or no stutter.  And when it occasionally stutters its because I've been swapping between other stuff and the memory and cache need cleaning. which takes about 5 seconds with the free utility I run in the background.

[AlanC9]

I'm not finding anything problematic about the PC controls.  They are standard WASD.  The Tact-cam needs work but once I figured out what was going on it's no biggie.  In combat auto-attack isn't an issue as the other party members are using their skills and basic attack.  Automatically closing to attack isn't missed as there are specific gap closer skills that I'm finding fun to use.
 
Generally it plays like a lot of MMO's like Guild Wars 2, Rift and Elder Scrolls Online and that's working great for me.
 

The impression I'm getting is that a bunch of the people who are demanding a "real PC interface" either haven't played MMOs, or hate them. Which is kinda funny since the DA series has always incorporated MMO concepts.

[stevemill]

The impression I'm getting is that a bunch of the people who are demanding a "real PC interface" either haven't played MMOs, or hate them. Which is kinda funny since the DA series has always incorporated MMO concepts.

That might be it.  For me the set-up is very intuitive but I've played a lot of MMO's so the muscle memory is there.  I bound the W and S keys to spare mouse buttons after a while just to free my left hand for the controls.

 

I guess over the years I've come to appreciate not having to memorise 95 different key combo's to play.  I don't have that sort of time or energy any more. At the end of the day I just want to lose myself in another world without keeping a manual to hand.

[Damazig]

The impression I'm getting is that a bunch of the people who are demanding a "real PC interface" either haven't played MMOs, or hate them. Which is kinda funny since the DA series has always incorporated MMO concepts.

 

 

That might be it.  For me the set-up is very intuitive but I've played a lot of MMO's so the muscle memory is there.  I bound the W and S keys to spare mouse buttons after a while just to free my left hand for the controls.

 

I guess over the years I've come to appreciate not having to memorise 95 different key combo's to play.  I don't have that sort of time or energy any more. At the end of the day I just want to lose myself in another world without keeping a manual to hand.

 

The many MMOs you are referring to those recent 3 and a few others, not many, the vast majority of MMOs do have the WASD keys for movement, but also

the vast majority of MMOs have auto-attack.

 

And you say DA series has always implemented MMO concepts? So far all Dragon Age games have pause and play gameplay, something not used in any MMO that comes to mind. They were also filled with loading screens just about every time you opened dor to go into any building, or to go to a second floor, and even wilderness areas were small, something no MMO has. These new casual fetch side quests, at least in this tipical MMO scale were only introduced in Inquisition. Again on the gameplay side, I dont know many MMOs were you control a party, or at least more than your character and one pet?? Also, MMO, massive online, DA series only implemented online gameplay on Inquisition, and 4 players max that don't really type to communicate. Origins and DA 2 were both single player sotry focused games.

 

I still don't see the MMO in either Origins or DA 2.

[Darkly Tranquil]

u do realize the article is biased right? they are including all the hardware one can buy for PC. and it's a fact that hardware cost so much more than consoles and that is why they are performing better.
 
my current gaming laptop cost me around $2.2k usd compared to a PS4 which cost me $550 usd. This equates to buying 4 PS4!!! but i love my current laptop and is willing to spurge on it (it was a rash decision though i never regret it). However, many games produced for the PC do not even need my specs!!!
 
but i think if u look at number of units only, PC games are now selling much less than console games.

I'll just put this here...

http://www.pcr-onlin...globally/033849

And yes, I know it's a PC site, but they aren't the ones making the statement these guys are. They seem like they should know what they are talking about given they are a technology market forecasting outfit.

[Sylvius the Mad]

(the 600 € cards are extreme high-end, and you absolutely DO NOT need them for anything but bragging rights).

As the proud new owner of one of those cards ($1100 last month), I completely agree. Turning things down a little bit (particularly expensive features like MSAA) makes little or no difference to the visuals. All the giant card does for me is run cooler and quieter than a lesser card would.

[RVallant]

I think you have the description of the progression spot on. However, you also point out a potential flaw. Things seem to go to the complete extreme with each iteration.

 

DAO - great game, but slow combat

DA2 - ok let's completely speed up the combat to satisfy everyone - reaction: but you forgot the big world! The environments!

DAI - ok let's now create the largest open world in a BioWare game ever and see how that goes - reaction: but it's too big! Too many filler quests! I don't know where to go! No path to follow! (Many of these are knee-jerk reactions, I have totally settled in now and it's really not 'bad' at all - but it's a legitimate criticism nonetheless).

 

The point is that Bioware with what is I am sure the absolute best intentions in the world, tends to ramp things up to 150% instead of just 100%, bless them. NatureGuay85 above has it right, it is somewhat overcompensating.

 

I think that those of us who are able to look at these things objectively are asking for one simple thing: balance. Yes they needed to open up the world more and make a big, epic sweeping masterpiece to recover from DA2 and backpedal a little to where DAO was, but the world doesn't have to be so big that it is full of filler quests in order to justify how big it is. Bioware has always been about 'the most emotionally engaging games in the world', seriously it's right there on their website, it is their Vision Statement. I'm not saying DAI isn't emotionally engaging (I'm pretty sure I've been in tears at least twice now and I'm nowhere near finished yet), I'm just saying that DAO and to a lesser extent DA2's charm is that there is a fantastic story around every corner - an experience over every hill - this game provides that over half the hills and corners, I think simply because the environments are too big to fill with more. I referred to this point elsewhere as 'story per square metre'.

 

I really love DAI, don't get me wrong. What I would like to see from the next one is big environments, sure - but make each part of the environment exist for a reason, otherwise from a roleplaying point of view, why go up that mountain? Isn't there more important things for the Inquisitor to focus on right now?

 

At the moment, the story per square metre is about 50% (its not 'game-breaking' or anything, this is just a polite criticism), I just would personally like to see either:

- Same size, but more story per square metre (70%-ish), or

- Smaller size, same amount of story, which will mean more story per square metre (70%-ish)

 

Again, DAI is probably my favourite Bioware game ever, but nothing is perfect. Just my two cents.

 

It's lack of communication. I thought the issue with DA2 wasn't just the rushjob they did on it, but that they abandoned the finer details. They spent all that time crafting a wonderful world, lore and legend. Remember what the first major complaint was on DA2 beside the stupid 'press X is awesome!' dumbing down they did? It was the art-style. I can remember plenty of threads bemused about the art changes, plenty about the perceived plot holes, but I think the DA team didn't help with their silly videos (Press button is awesome for example) or their attitudes (It isn't a plot hole, because I said so, you don't understand the story blah blah - don't believe me? There should be plenty of memes/screencaps of one of the writers actually saying such rubbish on these forums).

 

I never understood why you'd plant a tree, give it a firm foundation only to uproot it and plant it upside down. DA:O and 2 were as different as black and white. Inquisition is good, but the complaints valid, I don't know if it's the Dragon Age team or if it's the execs in suits at EA pushing ideas that are ten years out of date, but generally speaking open world isn't usually suitable for storytelling, and it concerns me there's an interview with one of the DA members who says they were shifting towards Skyrim (er, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who gives a hoot about the main quest there guys!) 

 

Basically all they needed to do was build on the foundations the success of Origins was, rather than nuke it. DA:I offers some fantastic scenes and stories that proves that 2 was just blip, but it doesn't prove they have found the perfect method for framing the damn story. If the trend continues, DA:4 is likely to be another extreme swing in some direction, wouldn't surprise me if EA push for a DA MMO, and find they're another 20 years too late to the MMO party, -oh hello there KOTOR / Elder Scrolls, did well for you there didn't it!)

 

But, hopefully it won't come to that.

[Lebanese Dude]

But the storytelling quality is no different in a DAI than in DAO or DA2.

If you're speaking on technical and design issues, Origins is hardly a good metric.

I'd list the massive amount of issues that game had, but I think I'm done trying to convince people that their golden DAO child was a nostalgia-obscured hot mess.

DAI has issues, but they can be solved in the fullness of time.

[stevemill]

 

And you say DA series has always implemented MMO concepts?

 

<snip>

 

I still don't see the MMO in either Origins or DA 2.

I didn't say any of that.  And auto attack isn't needed. The characters you don't control have basic attack along with all their other skills which they use automatically and the one you control doesn't need it because, well you know, you control it.

[Allotetraploid]

But you're not forced.  Power points are easy to come by, so you don't have to "grind" that much.  Craft an armor? Power.  Craft a weapon? Power.  Get past the prologue? Power. (You get the point).

 

As much as I loved Origins, looking back on it (in fact playing the 2 weeks prior to Inquisition release), I was of the opposite spectrum.  There are X number of fights, no respawn.  The optional stuff was pretty much DLC.  And the apparence of choice didn't impact much; since all you got was an ending of text telling you what happened.  The one thing that struck me as far as quality/enjoyment when I played it was Alistair's voice acting/range of emotions.

 

BTW, can we get a backstory on how in hell did Leliana go from being a soft spoken chantry chick to badass in Inquisition?

Games are all about fiction dear, so if a wall of text can keep up an appearance a wall of text is what I need and crave. But DAO had other small things, like whom you chose to ally with using the warden contracts not only making a difference in whom you fought with in the final battle, but also that those choices were connected to your own player experience of being a mage elf, an alienage elf or a dalish elf in the game’s opening. You were someone in that world before you changed it. If we compare that with the narration in DOI you are a blank slate with no obvious connection to anything (me: amnesic dalish apostate mage) apart from some super power you got in an (at the opening) unknown way. So there is this giant hole in the sky and you are the only one that can mend it, fine. While fighting darkspawn is part and parcel with ending a blight it seems less clear to me how setting up tents in the wilderness or exploring dwarven tombs can mend a hole. I was often unsure on in what way the things I did related to the main plot. The very diversity and vastness of the game has come with a lessening of cohesion in the way the story unfolds. But yes, you probably can skip much of the optional content but if that is so it means that a lot of the game doesn’t revolve around the plot and for me that is a weakness, because it means that those parts won’t play into how the main narrative develops. For example, compare what the customisation of your stronghold in Awakening means compared to what it means in DAI (as the in game notification says: purely cosmetic).

  

I too made a replay of DAO just before DAI got released and I’m not all woolly about it. There are weaknesses in that game too, especially if we look at how the engine has aged. But in terms of storytelling DAO was and still is a landmark. It is so because it keeps to the basic tricks of narration. You ease someone into the story, letting them get familiar with the environment and get emotionally invested, then you introduce the plot and let the rest of the story revolve around that, and at the end you knit all loose threads together and present it as a whole. If we look at Mass Effect it has achieved this cohesion by having a returning cast of characters with whom your main character have a backstory. You have three games of continuous investment and involvement. In the DA franchise Bioware ditched that option but it means that each instalment needs a successful origin story, as captivating as the one in the first game. I for one still miss my warden…  

[AshesEleven]

Games are all about fiction dear, so if a wall of text can keep up an appearance a wall of text is what I need and crave. But DAO had other small things, like whom you chose to ally with using the warden contracts not only making a difference in whom you fought with in the final battle, but also that those choices were connected to your own player experience of being a mage elf, an alienage elf or a dalish elf in the game’s opening. You were someone in that world before you changed it. If we compare that with the narration in DOI you are a blank slate with no obvious connection to anything (me: amnesic dalish apostate mage) apart from some super power you got in an (at the opening) unknown way. So there is this giant hole in the sky and you are the only one that can mend it, fine. While fighting darkspawn is part and parcel with ending a blight it seems less clear to me how setting up tents in the wilderness or exploring dwarven tombs can mend a hole. I was often unsure on in what way the things I did related to the main plot. The very diversity and vastness of the game has come with a lessening of cohesion in the way the story unfolds. But yes, you probably can skip much of the optional content but if that is so it means that a lot of the game doesn’t revolve around the plot and for me that is a weakness, because it means that those parts won’t play into how the main narrative develops. For example, compare what the customisation of your stronghold in Awakening means compared to what it means in DAI … [/size][/font]

There was barely customization in Awakening...it was like "warden we need stronger walls! Okay that's about it thank you warden !"

[Allotetraploid]

There was barely customization in Awakening...it was like "warden we need stronger walls! Okay that's about it thank you warden !"

 

And if you didn't do it? It had an effect on how events played out in subsequent stages, both at the battle and in the end of the game. But true, if costumization is about choosing non consequential visuals then DAI surpasses Awakening. I have never however understood the point of only cosmetic changes, since they have non obvious connection to my player experience. But I grant that the range of options were limited to a few do or do not.  

[dantares83]

I'll just put this here...

http://www.pcr-onlin...globally/033849

And yes, I know it's a PC site, but they aren't the ones making the statement these guys are. They seem like they should know what they are talking about given they are a technology market forecasting outfit.

 

u did notice they mention games like League of the Legends and Dota 2 right? these are games mainly for a younger crowd and do not require any high-end PC or even 3rd gen consoles. I know many adults play them too (i myself still enjoy pokemon and i am not afraid to admit it) but the kids are the ones raving about them.

 

I have worked with kids (below 12) and they play these games for ages (and neglecting their schoolwork,  , which is part of my job) but I doubt they have serious purchasing power. Their parents may dote on them but surely there is a limit if not, they will be raising spoilt brats all around.

[RVallant]

Allotetraploid sums it up better than I did. Not saying Origins is the be all end all, but it did what it needed to very damn well.

[Damazig]

u did notice they mention games like League of the Legends and Dota 2 right? these are games mainly for a younger crowd and do not require any high-end PC or even 3rd gen consoles. I know many adults play them too (i myself still enjoy pokemon and i am not afraid to admit it) but the kids are the ones raving about them.

 

I have worked with kids (below 12) and they play these games for ages (and neglecting their schoolwork,  , which is part of my job) but I doubt they have serious purchasing power. Their parents may dote on them but surely there is a limit if not, they will be raising spoilt brats all around.

Well I'm 33, and I'm platinum ranked in League of Legends, probably have as many hours in it as I have in wow, and lets just say its an insane amount of hours. Kids aside, LoL is currently the number one game in terms of money made through micro transactions.

 

"League of Legends pulled in an estimated $964 million between January and September of this year, according to SuperData research (via VentureBeat), making the magical $1 billion mark almost a sure thing."

 

That's money made without shipping costs, no DVDs, no retailers, no boxes, its clean earnings, and thats WAY above most triple A games that came out this year, if not all. That's this year ONLY.

[dantares83]

Well I'm 33, and I'm platinum ranked in League of Legends, probably have as many hours in it as I have in wow, and lets just say its an insane amount of hours. Kids aside, LoL is currently the number one game in terms of money made through micro transactions.

 

"League of Legends pulled in an estimated $964 million between January and September of this year, according to SuperData research (via VentureBeat), making the magical $1 billion mark almost a sure thing."

 

That's money made without shipping costs, no DVDs, no retailers, no boxes, its clean earnings, and thats WAY above most triple A games that came out this year, if not all. That's this year ONLY.

 

so im saying that these games are like apps games where they lure u by advertising as 'free' and then make u spend more money on these than an actual AAA game like DAI. Just look at the sales numbers of Candy Crush and Clash of Clans. They have absolutely rudimental graphics/sounds and what's not and I think any dev can make those games easily but these games are outselling games like DAI (which took years of effort and bloodshed).

 

But majority of the people who paid for these games are the addicts and the industry usually do not consider real gamers but as money-suckers. Which is why I always advise my kids not to pay too much for these games even though their parents allow them to purchase 'in-game-items' to boost their stats. I try to stir them to real games like DAI but I find that people these days have strong attention span and crave for instant gratification which only these games can do.

 

In my opinion, these are the games that are destroying the industry and is probably the future of gaming industry. That is why I hope people can give some credit to the devs instead of whining so much because in no time at all, we could be seeing a 'no-lore' DA world where all we do is to shoot at each other.

[SomberXIII]

The OP just said everything I wanted to say!

[Damazig]

so im saying that these games are like apps games where they lure u by advertising as 'free' and then make u spend more money on these than an actual AAA game like DAI. Just look at the sales numbers of Candy Crush and Clash of Clans. They have absolutely rudimental graphics/sounds and what's not and I think any dev can make those games easily but these games are outselling games like DAI (which took years of effort and bloodshed).

 

But majority of the people who paid for these games are the addicts and the industry usually do not consider real gamers but as money-suckers. Which is why I always advise my kids not to pay too much for these games even though their parents allow them to purchase 'in-game-items' to boost their stats. I try to stir them to real games like DAI but I find that people these days have strong attention span and crave for instant gratification which only these games can do.

 

In my opinion, these are the games that are destroying the industry and is probably the future of gaming industry. That is why I hope people can give some credit to the devs instead of whining so much because in no time at all, we could be seeing a 'no-lore' DA world where all we do is to shoot at each other.

Credit where credit's due, League of Legends is also the number one E-sports game, it's far from a candy saga. They are PVP games, they don't need much story and incredible graphics, it's all about the gameplay the PVP and the competition. I've put a total of 20 euros into League of Legends, just because I wanted to, it's 100% free, the only thing that you can only get with real money are skins for your champions, so its just a visual thing, not pay to win, there isn't a single item I can buy with real money or boost at max level that will give me any advantage in terms of gameplay, 0.

 

I could have payed 0, still be at my current rank, and still having played it more hours equating to far more than 10, or 50 Dragon Age full playthroughs.

 

You don't like it, no problem, but saying LoL was easy to make? easy to play? no fun? pay to win? no. It's the most watched game being stream on twitch.tv the entire time.

[dantares83]

Credit where credit's due, League of Legends is also the number one E-sports game, it's far from a candy saga. They are PVP games, they don't need much story and incredible graphics, it's all about the gameplay the PVP and the competition. I've put a total of 20 euros into League of Legends, just because I wanted to, it's 100% free, the only thing that you can only get with real money are skins for your champions, so its just a visual thing, not pay to win, there isn't a single item I can buy with real money or boost at max level that will give me any advantage in terms of gameplay, 0.

 

I could have payed 0, still be at my current rank, and still having played it more hours equating to far more than 10, or 50 Dragon Age full playthroughs.

 

You don't like it, no problem, but saying LoL was easy to make? easy to play? no fun? pay to win? no. It's the most watched game being stream on twitch.tv the entire time.

lol. to be honest, i have never played that game so i am not sure if it is fun. maybe it will be fun if i play it but i don't like multiplayer game so i don't know.

 

but i just want people to give DAI more credit. the toxic people in here and Metacritic are just mean and biased.

[AlanC9]

The many MMOs you are referring to those recent 3 and a few others, not many, the vast majority of MMOs do have the WASD keys for movement, but also the vast majority of MMOs have auto-attack.

I'm still not clear why people are getting their panties in a twist over auto-attack. That finger's not doing anything else anyway, is it? Since you're bothered by it, could you enlighten me?

I still don't see the MMO in either Origins or DA 2.

The aggro management/tanking concept doesn't ring a bell? That's the really freakin' obvious one, for starters, and one that i personally had a hard time adjusting to. DA2 brought in much more defined and enforced class roles, although I suppose that could be considered a throwback to AD&D too. Some of the gear stuff too, although since ME1 had similar bad ideas I don't really know the transmission vector.

Protip: writing up a list of ways DAO isn't like an MMO is no way to respond to a claim that DAO incorporates MMO concepts. If I tell you that a pot of chili has cumin in it, a list of all the things in that chili that aren't cumin doesn't say anything about the cumin.