41 réponses à ce sujet

[KingTony]

I don't think any of the powers use potions from your inventory, but okay.

[Rhaine]

I don't think any of the powers use potions from your inventory, but okay.

No none of the powers do, many Passives are elixir based though.

[KingTony]

No none of the powers do, many Passives are elixir based though.

Are you saying you don't use potions?

[Rhaine]

Are you saying you don't use potions?

For about the 10 minutes I have them I do

The thing is it makes sense in single player because all these potions etc renew when you sleep or whatever, in multiplayer they make less sense because you can only obtain them through rng and they ain't renewed.

They should give alchemist specifically (or perhaps all multiple classes) some sort of renewable elixir or potion. Or change the alchemist accordingly.

I just find myself asking what does an alchemist do better than an other class and I can't come up with an answer, anyone got a contrasting opinion? I do like the character and love playing it but I do think it needs some love/ changes.

[Lenseflare]

There few builds, and they are very different. Atm i am on my 4th Lukas reincarnation (promoted her 3 times)...

 

 

Do you have any experience with her on gold difficulty?

I've tried her a few times and Elemental mines seem really weak, not to mention that it depletes your energy.

I just end up not doing much at all, mostly waiting for anyone to charge the ranged characters.

On the sheet, Poison Weapons (maybe Knockout Bomb) , Toxic Cloud, Parry and Evade seems to be the best options for active skills.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Yeah, something feels off about the Alchemist.  The idea of synergizing with potions is fun but given how they are a finite resource without any method of acquiring a specific type, it leads to the class being broken.  Could you imagine if a class in ME3 needed to fire Missiles in order to earn a skill bonus or needed to invest skill points to get the damage bonus from ammo packs?  It just doesn't work well.  I love the idea of the class but it needs to be tweaked.

[Blackstork]

Yeah, something feels off about the Alchemist.  The idea of synergizing with potions is fun but given how they are a finite resource without any method of acquiring a specific type, it leads to the class being broken.  Could you imagine if a class in ME3 needed to fire Missiles in order to earn a skill bonus or needed to invest skill points to get the damage bonus from ammo packs?  It just doesn't work well.  I love the idea of the class but it needs to be tweaked.

 

It's ok, but this skill is very hi skill level capped. See, it is squishy melee class with spells that require proper positions. I do not agree that it is broken, you need to have more effort abit and teamwork in order to utilize what it does, together with your team. If done properly this class is devastating, i mean really devastating AOE assasin (i not talking about bombs, which are fine with fire flask as ranged build, but thats not build i talking about). Assain does not even close comparison of aoe capabilities which alchemist have.

Best used with Keeper, Elementalist and Templar. Those 3 in good worked out team can do wonders because of certain synergy they have,

 

Do you have any experience with her on gold difficulty?

I've tried her a few times and Elemental mines seem really weak, not to mention that it depletes your energy.

I just end up not doing much at all, mostly waiting for anyone to charge the ranged characters.

On the sheet, Poison Weapons (maybe Knockout Bomb) , Toxic Cloud, Parry and Evade seems to be the best options for active skills.

 

I do not like them either. Spells i like: Poison trees, with proper weapons and passives you become really devastating. Stealth and/or Evade - obcourse, Flank attack (neat spell), Fire Flask go well also with Twin Attack. Knockout bomb is nice with twin attack or SS in build. 

I did not used parry in any of my reincarnations. I think that Frost Flask build need to be used in pre-mades where each one knows what he is doing. It is good with poison, stealth AND evade. SS is meh, not usable with fire flask, does knowckout, but i tried it and i didnt liked it so much.

Favorites are poisons perhaps. Current build goes towards Fire Flask + Flank attack, Stealth , Poison Weapons.  Approach, poison weapons, fire flask, and flank attack. I like it. 

as i said , Keeper, Elementalist and Templar are companions i find golden with Alchemist, if you cooperate, plan ant time each ones attacks. 

[Rhaine]

It's ok, but this skill is very hi skill level capped. See, it is squishy melee class with spells that require proper positions. I do not agree that it is broken, you need to have more effort abit and teamwork in order to utilize what it does, together with your team. If done properly this class is devastating, i mean really devastating AOE assasin (i not talking about bombs, which are fine with fire flask as ranged build, but thats not build i talking about). Assain does not even close comparison of aoe capabilities which alchemist have.
Best used with Keeper, Elementalist and Templar. Those 3 in good worked out team can do wonders because of certain synergy they have,


I do not like them either. Spells i like: Poison trees, with proper weapons and passives you become really devastating. Stealth and/or Evade - obcourse, Flank attack (neat spell), Fire Flask go well also with Twin Attack. Knockout bomb is nice with twin attack or SS in build.
I did not used parry in any of my reincarnations. I think that Frost Flask build need to be used in pre-mades where each one knows what he is doing. It is good with poison, stealth AND evade. SS is meh, not usable with fire flask, does knowckout, but i tried it and i didnt liked it so much.
Favorites are poisons perhaps. Current build goes towards Fire Flask + Flank attack, Stealth , Poison Weapons. Approach, poison weapons, fire flask, and flank attack. I like it.
as i said , Keeper, Elementalist and Templar are companions i find golden with Alchemist, if you cooperate, plan ant time each ones attacks.

It may have better aoe than assassin but it's worse than elementalists, necromancer, arcane warrior etc.

So it has less aoe damage than those classes and less single target damage than assassin and is also one of the squishiest classes that requires more positioning than other classes.

It feels like too versatile a class where it ends up not excelling at anything tbh......

I've not experimented with knockout bomb which seems like it may be good utility but does it beat things like storm cage? I have my doubts.

I just don't see alchemist doing anything that something else can't do better.

[Lenseflare]

I have to agree with Rhaine,

 

The assassin is very good at taking out archers and single add mobs, with potential for high damage bursts and very high mobility.

But the alchemist seems like such a defensive dps character it only excel when the group is retreating and not worth the fourth spot.

 

I was able to solo bronze with alchemist yesterday, so my gear isn't that bad imo.

[Blackstork]

It may have better aoe than assassin but it's worse than elementalists, necromancer, arcane warrior etc.

So it has less aoe damage than those classes and less single target damage than assassin and is also one of the squishiest classes that requires more positioning than other classes.

It feels like too versatile a class where it ends up not excelling at anything tbh......

I've not experimented with knockout bomb which seems like it may be good utility but does it beat things like storm cage? I have my doubts.

I just don't see alchemist doing anything that something else can't do better.

I disagree with you on few points

 

aoe of Alchemist is much better, if he uses unique aoe daggers, and poison. IT explodes and denies whole area to enemy. She have stealth also, and acess to evade, and can kite not worse and even better than elementalist. The problem that she needs melee range, and that puts her in choice: or to be very careful and deny herself from using her full potential, or to be agressive, but that possible without dying in proper organized team with proper composition. Believe me, Alchemist will outdamage aoe of any character if she been provided with barrier cover. Take party of Elementalist, Keeper and Templar , and proper poison alchemist.

 

There are few builds of her which offer things to team that no one can offer:

Freeze + Toxic  7 sec tank, and then stealth bail , while Party shatter,

Fire Flask + Flank Attack/Skirmisher result in permanent poison cloud explosion attacks and covering all area in green goo, while she can maintain the stealth,

or simple possibility to take off swarms of archers which are in enemy flanks. 

None could do such things as or better than alchemist

 

Knockout Bomb is also great spell which provides alot of synergy and untility if team is built for that. 

 

The only limitation of her that she does need strong skill and understanding of all classes, game and positioning, and she needs proper teem to support / coordinate actions with her so she will be incredibly powerful. Given the fact that PUGs are genuinely selfish she does seem too complex to get most of her in pugs.

[Blackstork]

I have to agree with Rhaine,

 

The assassin is very good at taking out archers and single add mobs, with potential for high damage bursts and very high mobility.

But the alchemist seems like such a defensive dps character it only excel when the group is retreating and not worth the fourth spot.

 

I was able to solo bronze with alchemist yesterday, so my gear isn't that bad imo.

Alch able to take them with slightly less damage which is not significant. Its same, if you use things correctly. Assassin does not have access to thinks that make Alchemist valuable.

with simple barrier Alchemist becomes more valuable than assasin. She also becomes move valuable with proper Templar .

there complexity and dependance on  those "but" are her con, certainly. But she have veeeeery good spot in very coordinated team with certain composition. Her top 3 so far i ecnountered which have synergy with stuff she does: Elementalist, Templar, Keeper.

[Rhaine]

i guess ill try your current build next and see how it goes, im open to being converted I just have my doubts but I will try .

 

Out of curiosity do you prefer slashing daggers or the piercing ones?

 

And, why fire flask with that build? "Current build goes towards Fire Flask + Flank attack, Stealth , Poison Weapons.  Approach, poison weapons, fire flask, and flank attack. I like it." Seems it would get less mileage since you have no high instant damage skills there unless its just to renter stealth more often? Oh and lets not forgot assassin has all those skills with more useful passives except fire flask =P

[Blackstork]

The fire flas is thing that makes difference. It allows you to hit group of archers, in 5 seconds , with powerful flank attack, with slashing daggers, and each one initiate explosion of poison when dies while you maintain the stealth. The point is to create toxic explosions with explosive passive, combined with some debuffing passive perks that assasin does not have. Assasin can perform one attack like that, alchemist can  perform many.

 

Also frost flask also poewrful stuff but its even more team oriented. ITs effect is awesome, but its more cc utility, and you need to have party with coordinated shatter detonator etc and main tank.

[Rhaine]

And finaly do you take any of the flask duration passives? or skip them?

[Blackstork]

And finaly do you take any of the flask duration passives? or skip them?

sure, must have, they are must haves if i take flasks.

 

I tried 5 builds of alchy.

Each one fun, but different complexity/dependance. ones who less dependent, are less rewarding. High risk ones are devastating but they need Keeper/Elementalists attached, and better Templar too. Some of them quite that and that but need alot of practice. 

Its not easy win button like AW. But it can be amazing and rewarding with alot of practice, correct build and especially with proper coordinated team. Alchemist is most devastating character on the field if given support and protection.

 

And btw there is another buld which i have on sp. Posion Weapons Twin Fangs  Fire Flask spam. More oeffencive, less defencive option. Need friendly barriers in difference with Flank Attack + Fire Flask.

 

Simplistic common builds of fire flask + bombs are fine on paper, but awkward in practice. I had 2 versions of those, disliked them. Shadow Strike is another option, but since it is usable with flask only in sp, and hard to control and manage it correctly during fast-paced mp, it synergies less with flask.

[Scorpio989]

My Build:

 

1. Shadow Strike (Does very nice damage, knocks down enemies, and detonates combos.)

2. Stealth (No explanation needed)

3. Flask of Frost (For tanking and inflicting Freeze for either my party members to detonate or for Shadow Strike to detonate.)

4. Flask of Fire (Detonate tons of combos, wipe a group, or knock down a group to support party members.)

 

I have done some amazing feats with this build and advocate it for anyone who is looking for more of a combo/tanking/CC build. 

[Blackstork]

My Build:

 

1. Shadow Strike (Does very nice damage, knocks down enemies, and detonates combos.)

2. Stealth (No explanation needed)

3. Flask of Frost (For tanking and inflicting Freeze for either my party members to detonate or for Shadow Strike to detonate.)

4. Flask of Fire (Detonate tons of combos, wipe a group, or knock down a group to support party members.)

 

I have done some amazing feats with this build and advocate it for anyone who is looking for more of a combo/tanking/CC build. 

nice, i didnt tried mixed flask build yet, i will get to it, but one note: i tried fire flask SS in MP, and i didnt liked it, Twin Fangs is much better skill to spam, with much faster animation. I am sure it is more usable in your build, if you going for shatters. You do more damage with twin fangs, esp if you using frost flask just before it.