29 réponses à ce sujet

[Prkl8r]

Anybody else find guard for warriors useless on nightmare? full bars seem to get eaten in a single hit from most enemies.

 

Am I missing something? Or is it actually just terrible in nightmare?

[Sevitan7]

Yes, I made a topic about it earlier. It seems that base Guard is just 150. Meaning a full guard meter is nothing more than 150 hit points. With the 25% upgrade it's 200. It does not appear to scale with anything. I have no idea if this is by design or a bug, but the higher your level, the more worthless guard becomes.

 

In either case, that's pretty much 1 or 2 hits for most enemies, and bosses/elites don't even notice it.

 

Meanwhile, my barrier provides 7000 extra hitpoints, and has become pretty much the only way to mitigate damage.

[brazen_nl]

Well, Cassie builds it up like there's no tomorrow, so it's a wonderful, free, clutch.

[ArrogancyDTillmuraine]

I've found guard to be pretty effective.  150 total definitely doesn't sound right - I've seen characters take pretty significant hits.  

[Jais9]

It seems like the only reason to have guard is for the passive ability "Trust the Steel", which adds +20% armor as long as you have any amount of guard. That extra armor actually seems like it would surpass the damage mitigation of a full guard in itself.

[GhoXen]

Healing potions are a lot more valuable on Nightmare. Guard allows you to eat a single hit for free, which is more than enough for a non-tank.

 

As a tank? Guard is there for you to take hits from attacks you can't or fail to block or block fully.

[brazen_nl]

It seems like the only reason to have guard is for the passive ability "Trust the Steel", which adds +20% armor as long as you have any amount of guard. That extra armor actually seems like it would surpass the damage mitigation of a full guard in itself.

 

Upgraded War Cry gives you 200% armor bonus for 10 seconds.

[ian823]

Guard + Barrier = Tank

[Sareg Nenn]

Maybe the reason for having only 150 guard as basic is because guard benefits from armor? Meaning it's not actually 150hp but far greater "effective" hitpoints.

[Sevitan7]

Maybe the reason for having only 150 guard as basic is because guard benefits from armor? Meaning it's not actually 150hp but far greater "effective" hitpoints.

 

Your regular hitpoints benefit from armor as well. With the right passives they can have 20% extra armor, which is nice. It's still nothing and will be gone in one hit in most cases.

[Krogort]

I'm surprised guard is not a percentage of the character max health.

150hp seems very low at higher levels.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Guard benefits from armor and damage reduction, Barrier doesn't, which I assume is why its lower.

 

Still, it's true that late game even a full Guard bar gets eaten quite fast.

[coldflame]

Yes, I made a topic about it earlier. It seems that base Guard is just 150. Meaning a full guard meter is nothing more than 150 hit points. With the 25% upgrade it's 200. It does not appear to scale with anything. I have no idea if this is by design or a bug, but the higher your level, the more worthless guard becomes.

 

In either case, that's pretty much 1 or 2 hits for most enemies, and bosses/elites don't even notice it.

 

Meanwhile, my barrier provides 7000 extra hitpoints, and has become pretty much the only way to mitigate damage.

 

Mages are supreme. Kneel before your ruling Magister, peasant...

[Eledran]

It gets eaten fast.

 

That doesn't mean it isn't useful. Every little bit helps and if you're not keeping up your guard, you're definitely doing it wrong.

[GhoXen]

I'm surprised guard is not a percentage of the character max health.

150hp seems very low at higher levels.

 

It is a percentage. 20% of max health without any +Guard % passives.

 

Also, when I have Guard up (with +20% armor bonus when Guard is up), regular attacks only hit my tank for 1-20 damage per hit on NM. However, barrier (which enjoys no damage mitigation whatsoever) tend to take anywhere between 200-300 damage per hit on NM from the same attacks. 200 Guard will ultimately end up absorbing as much damage as 5000 barrier against physical attacks. However, barrier is more useful than guard when it comes to magical attacks. The gap isn't too massive though, as magical attacks tend to enjoy a bonus for damage against barriers.

 

As for boss heavy attacks? You really should only be dodging them, or failing that at least block them (which will eradicate your stamina bar, so dodging is more economical). Either barrier and guard would be cleared in a single direct attack from a dragon.

[Maverick827]

It is a percentage. 20% of max health without any +Guard % passives.

 

Also, when I have Guard up (with +20% armor bonus when Guard is up), regular attacks only hit my tank for 1-20 damage per hit on NM. However, barrier (which enjoys no damage mitigation whatsoever) tend to take anywhere between 200-300 damage per hit on NM from the same attacks. 200 Guard will ultimately end up absorbing as much damage as 5000 barrier against physical attacks. However, barrier is more useful than guard when it comes to magical attacks. The gap isn't too massive though, as magical attacks tend to enjoy a bonus for damage against barriers.

 

As for boss heavy attacks? You really should only be dodging them, or failing that at least block them (which will eradicate your stamina bar, so dodging is more economical). Either barrier and guard would be cleared in a single direct attack from a dragon.

 

How do you dodge every attack?

[ME_Fan]

yeah I'm trying to get through redcliffe castle and frankly I'm getting torn apart like tissue paper, I've gotten so far with a war of attitrion and trial and error, but it's sucking the enjoyment out of the game. I can charge through a crowd of shades to get full guard, but once I've stopped it takes no more than 2 hits  to completely remove it. I will probably go back and grind hinterlands/storm coast for a bit to level up before trying again. I mean I'm level 8 now, it says recommended 4 to 7.

 

Can anyone recommend good followers for the Alexius quest, with a two handed warrior PC?

[GhoXen]

Heavy boss attacks? They're ultimately very predictable. Play against them once whilst paying attention to their animations and patterns. You'll see.

 

Once you figure it out, you literally just waltz out of the way.

 

Some you can just walk out of the way. Others, i.e. Envy Demon, will require you to use a well-timed dodge ability to get out of the way quickly enough. E.g. Combat Roll (Warrior), Evade/Leaping Shot (Rogue), Fade Step (Mage). While a bit of a waste, I sometimes use Bull Rush to get out of the way when the distance Combat Roll covers is not sufficient.

[ME_Fan]

Thanks, Blackwall it is next time, I'll let you know how I get on, I'll probably take Sera for the Rogue.

[Sevitan7]

I did some more testing with odd results:

 

190 max guard at 10 con at level 13, armor rating 202, front 168 armor
213 max guard at 28 con at level 13, armor rating 202, front 168 armor
216 max guard at 31 con at level 13 with 25% max buff passive, 202, front 168
205 max guard at 31 con at level 13 with 25% max buff passive, armor rating 106, front 72
 

Guard appears to scale on con and/or armor but it's a very tiny amount of scaling. My armor also fluctuated during testing for no discernible reasons after respecs..

 

The +25% guard passive does not add 25% to max guard, what it does add to is armor rating (but not front rating). For a character with 149 armor it boosted it to 168. And for one with 167 to 200 (same character that was 168-202 before respecing). So a random 12-17% in increases. Seems like some sort of a buggy formula is involved.

 

Some other things someone might care about:

1) seems damage resistance reduces damage before armor
2) armor seems to simply reduce damage by it's numerical value to minimum of 1 (i.e. a hit for 200 damage will do 100 damage if you armor rating is 100 and 50 if you have 25% melee damage resistance and 100 armor)

 

Don't quote me on the last two though, the whole system is obfuscated and buggy as hell from what I gather and I didn't do extensive testing. I kind of lost the will to deal with it.

 

In any case, guard still seems worthless unless you can attain extremely high armor values/resistance percentages. Which would make Guard mostly unnecessary anyway.

[Khevar]

BioWare has always been good at using weird math, logic and systems as a whole to calculate damage mitigation. I gave up on learning DAI's by myself the moment I noticed that the supposed 25% armour increase from the guard passive does not, in fact, increase your armour by that amount.

 

You should see some of the damage mitigation formulas SWTOR theorycrafters have reverse-engineered.

 

Check out this gem:

mrke * (6/23) * (1 - (1 - defense[x*a + relic] + 0.5*0.1)*(1 - (1 - crit)*shield[x*b]*absorb[x*c])) + mrke * (1 - 6/23) * (1 - (1 - defense[x*a] + 0.5*0.1)*(1 - (1 - crit)*shield[x*b]*absorb[x*c])) + ftke*(1 - (1 - resist)(1 - (1 - crit)*shield[x*b]*absorb[x*c])) (where a + b + c = 1 and a,b,c >= 0)