63 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

I'm starting to believe that Flemeth has worked in the best interests of our heroes/Thedas from the beginning. All negative perceptions seem to stem from Morrigan. While Flemeth's actions show her as helping, first the Wardens, then Hawke. And I do believe her when she said a host needs to be willing for possession. I also see her not so much as taking Urthemiel's soul for herself, but taking it away from Morrigan.

 

Now as to that final scene, for myself I'm going to keep believing that there really was a price to be paid for losing the orb. Due to the magical bond of being responsible for the orb or whether they had to answer to a higher power. It was the Dread Wolf's so he was meant to pay for losing it, except "the people need him", which left it to Flemeth. And she sacrificed herself for her friend.

 

Possession and trading faces doesn't really feel like a price has been paid couldn't that soul then be shared off again to another host in the future? I really think Flemeth/Mythal is gone. At best, the Dread Wolf might have some of her power, at worst, someone else claimed Mythal in payment.

 

I'm less than convinced. We haven't seen Flemeth's less than savory actions ourselves, no, but Morrigan's reaction when meeting her in DAI makes me think that she wasn't just making them up to turn the Warden against Flemeth; she seemed genuinely horrified at the thought of Flemeth taking Kieran, and perfectly willing to sacrifice her own life to stop that from happening. 

 

Meanwhile, we haven't seen Flemeth do anything good that didn't also have an ulterior motive behind it. Saving the Wardens puts Morrigan in a position to do the Dark Ritual. Saving Hawke is her backup plan against the Warden killing her. 

 

That being said, I'm not saying Flemeth is cackling mad, puppy-kicking evil. I don't even think she's without sympathetic qualities. But I'm inclined to believe Morrigan's stories about her raping Chasind men to death and Merrill's stories about leaving people who displease her in pieces hanging from the trees. She may not be out and out evil, but she's not good, either, I think.

[Lvl20DM]

When Solas says that the "People need him", what does he mean exactly, do you think? The People are the elves, but does he mean the Elves of Thedas generally, or the ancient elves specifically? Does he intend to restore Arlathan, or maybe a better version of Arlathan?

[Meraxes]

When Solas says that the "People need him", what does he mean exactly, do you think? The People are the elves, but does he mean the Elves of Thedas generally, or the ancient elves specifically? Does he intend to restore Arlathan, or maybe a better version of Arlathan?

 

I'm guessing he's talking about the elves in general.

[Syndra]

The People are the elves

if you side with Briala there's a conversation about it. smth like

You: it's gonna be good for our people. Solas: our people...? Ooh you mean elves. I don't consider them my people

[Meraxes]

if you side with Briala there's a conversation about it. smth like

You: it's gonna be good for our people. Solas: our people...? Ooh you mean elves. I don't consider them my people

Yet you hear him refer to elves as 'my people' a number of times. He says 'Tevinter was built on the bones of my people' or something similar when you're first talking about the orb I think. 

[Syndra]

He says 'Tevinter was built on the bones of my people

ancient elves. 

[Meraxes]

ancient elves. 

I just find it very unlikely that he would be talking about the ancient elves in the last scene. Unless Alexius' weird time magic has something to do with it.

[Mims]

I'm more inclined to say 'his people' refers to the gods/spirits/ancient elves who have been sealed away. Solas's actual peers. 

[KCMeredith]

See, I didn't interpret that as Solas taking Flemeth's soul/essense/whatever. 

 

I interpreted that scene as Flemeth killing Solas by possessing him and Solas committing suicide by willfully possessing him. Maybe not killing, really, but Flemeth/Mythal taking over Solas/Fen'haral. 

Yeah, I thought the same thing. I doubt Flemeth would just....die like that.

[JeosDinas]

I'd much rather have Solas be in control, as befits his role as Dread Wolf and trickster. I'm all but certain that won't be that case; this franchise wants to play out the Morrigan/Flemeth stuff for all it is worth but it would be a heck of a thing to make Solas the one who came out on top here. The whole thing is fascinating while also being somewhat annoying. Great twist but then I feel it's spoiled when Solas is sort of sacrificed at the altar of "Wow! Isn't Flemeth mysterious?".

[Deanna]

I was very confused with the whole soul swapping thing. I get Flemeth is Mythal and Solas is Fen'Haral (spell?) but their very short conversation was vague and this thread doesn't make it any better lol. What happened to Flemeth? Why did she die like that? And why absorb the soul? And his eyes glowing like that. Its all incredibly frustrating. In my world state Alistair had OGB with Morrigan so Keiran was there, and I let Morrigan drink from the Well of Sorrows, guess ill have to play with different world states and make different decisions to see the different possibilities and try to piece this huge elven mystery together.

[mindoirs]

Why would Flemeth/Mythal sacrifice herself for Solas/Dread Wolf?

 

To me, it was clear that Solas "killed" Flemeth and absorbed her power/spirit. I'm sure this isn't the last of Flemeth, though.

 

At the least, his People aren't generally elves. Maaaybe ancient elves?

 

 

It's all honestly pretty blurry and confusing, evident by how many theories there are and how soon we run into more questions because of lack of info.

[Carmen_Willow]

I don't understand what you're trying to say? They're not gods but they're gods for the elves? What???

Perhaps they are saying that they were worshiped as gods by those who did not understand their true nature - whatever that is. Look at how famous people get turned into gods on earth--then imagine that beings who are very different from you come into your world and make themselves known. Quien sabe? It's all in the hands of the true Dragon Age Gods - the writers.

[Carmen_Willow]

Why would Flemeth/Mythal sacrifice herself for Solas/Dread Wolf?

 

To me, it was clear that Solas "killed" Flemeth and absorbed her power/spirit. I'm sure this isn't the last of Flemeth, though.

 

At the least, his People aren't generally elves. Maaaybe ancient elves?

 

 

It's all honestly pretty blurry and confusing, evident by how many theories there are and how soon we run into more questions because of lack of info.

I don't think she did. I think her body just couldn't go on any longer, and somehow the orb was supposed to fix that. At that point, she had no choice: share her essence with Solas or die the truth death. I think it was voluntary. I didn't get the feeling that she opposed what was happening.

[Carmen_Willow]

I'm less than convinced. We haven't seen Flemeth's less than savory actions ourselves, no, but Morrigan's reaction when meeting her in DAI makes me think that she wasn't just making them up to turn the Warden against Flemeth; she seemed genuinely horrified at the thought of Flemeth taking Kieran, and perfectly willing to sacrifice her own life to stop that from happening. 

 

Meanwhile, we haven't seen Flemeth do anything good that didn't also have an ulterior motive behind it. Saving the Wardens puts Morrigan in a position to do the Dark Ritual. Saving Hawke is her backup plan against the Warden killing her. 

 

That being said, I'm not saying Flemeth is cackling mad, puppy-kicking evil. I don't even think she's without sympathetic qualities. But I'm inclined to believe Morrigan's stories about her raping Chasind men to death and Merrill's stories about leaving people who displease her in pieces hanging from the trees. She may not be out and out evil, but she's not good, either, I think.

When you're a god, you don't have to be good. After all, who's gonna judge ya? [bwah-hah-hah]

[Carmen_Willow]

When we had the reveal Flemeth as Mythal, I was doing the "I knew it, I knew it" dance. And then, we found out about Solas!  Dang!  What fun!

[Emonthepm]

It didn't look hostile at all.

 

I think they had planned to merge, but the plan was for Flemeth to take his power. However, Solas says the people need him, which I think means he intends to restore the elves whereas Flemeth had no such plans and that's why he takes over.

 

Flemeth seems saddened but accepts, so I think the plan was long in the making.

[Wolfen09]

at least we didnt have 3 colors to choose from for an ending

[LadyJaneGrey]

The only thing I pulled out from the ending was Solas is A god or demigod, though not necessarily one that's being properly identified or worshiped today.  And from the rest of the game...he doesn't seem to give a damn about elves.  He cares about spirits and...I was going to say those who are oppressed or hurting, but I'm not sure that's right.  He does guide Cole to help the former templar, but that's more about keeping a spirit distinct that caring about the man.

 

I wonder if his people are the SPIRITS.  After all, without the physical world, the Fade ceases to be which would explain why he would bother teaming up with Cassandra and keeps prodding Varric.

 

Now I have to reload all those saves and prod the conversations again.  Dammit, Weekes!

[Meraxes]

The only thing I pulled out from the ending was Solas is A god or demigod, though not necessarily one that's being properly identified or worshiped today.  And from the rest of the game...he doesn't seem to give a damn about elves.  He cares about spirits and...I was going to say those who are oppressed or hurting, but I'm not sure that's right.  He does guide Cole to help the former templar, but that's more about keeping a spirit distinct that caring about the man.

 

I wonder if his people are the SPIRITS.  After all, without the physical world, the Fade ceases to be which would explain why he would bother teaming up with Cassandra and keeps prodding Varric.

 

Now I have to reload all those saves and prod the conversations again.  Dammit, Weekes!

But 'THE people' has always been how you refer to the elves. In DA2 Flemeth specifically refers to the dalish as 'the people', and Solas is having this conversation with her. I don't think the writers would use that term and then just go 'he was actually talking about spirits! surprise!'

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Keep in mind that Flemeth tells Morrigan that two souls cannot inhabit the same body. Possession must be willing. Its why demons tempt people rather than always forcefully taking them over. Because they can't, even an abomination retains some aspect of their hosts personality.

 

I believe, the spirit of Mythal left Flemeth's body and went into Solas. Solas is likely carrying the souls of multiple "gods" now. Without Mythal to sustain her, Flemeth died, she is, after all, supernaturally ancient. Flemeth said she seeked vengeance for the wrongs Mythal suffered. What those wrongs are and what Mythal goals are are left a mystery.

 

My guess is that the forgotten one's souls are the souls trapped underground in the archdemons. But their location underground isn't their prison, the fact that their souls are trapped in dragons is their real prison. I believe the taint just warps these old gods vessels, driving them mad.

 

What I don't get is why the dread wolf would be working with Mythal if hes the one that tricked the gods into their prisons long ago?

Also, I believe the ancient elven leaders abandon their people to go into their Eluvian "Artificial fade" to some other location. In order words, they abandoned the rest of the elven people and without their elders, the remaining elves couldn't defend themselves from the Tevinter Imperium. This is the only way it makes sense for Tevinter Imperium to have beaten the ancient elves despite all the vast magical knowledge the appeared to posses. In the Masked Empire

Spoiler

its pointed out that there are signs that the servant elves attacked and killed their slumber elders out of spite. But why? Perhaps because those Elders had abandon them?

[Lianaar]

The really magnificent and also the truely annoying part of this ending scene is that it can be interpreted in various ways. (One part of me hates it, for it is such a cliffhanger and I just NEED to know what is going on. And I can't.)

 

My reading of Solas, which maybe is not true, maybe he just tricked me into seeing him like this: he is sad, very sad. He is burdened with guilt. There is a conversation in some scenarios where Cole looks into him and sees this pain and regret and a wish to change things, but then Solas just kicks Cole out of his soul and said: this wound you can not heal. Obviously Solas did something and the weight of that lays heavy on him.

I can see him tricking the others, maybe he believed himself better knowing and what he did was for the 'greater good', which hit back. Then he woke up, saw how he messed up and wanted to do better, change the results, but couldn't on his own. So he searched a power that he thought is strong enough to help. But guess what, he messed up again, so he struggled to remedy his mess up again, and came to the Inquisition. The orb broke, and he said: this was not supposed to happen at all. The question, what he refers to exactly remains open for interpretation, but maybe he was not talking sheerly about the orb breaking, but something more.

 

The conversation he had with Flemeth seemed sad, he was broken and desperate. Flemeth stated her motivation is revenge. Solas stated his motivation is to help his people for they suffer and need him. Both are difficult weights to carry. I think Flemeth gave her soul over to Solas, but it is not a good thing, for she gave him a task, added to the burdens he already carries. Solas feels responsible for many things, and now he has an extra responsibility. They seemed to be friends, and seeing how Mythal just gave her "job" over to him, it makes sense why she said she is truely sorry. I saw surprise in Solas's expression, and he didn't seem to be prepared for Flemeth to collaps. He caught her. If he just wanted to take her soul, why catching her? She is dead, a corpse matters not. There is none to see if it drops. If Flemeth is taking over, again, why catching the body, who cares where old rags you wore land? You don't need to fold them, right? Catching the falling body of Flemeth for me makes only sense, if Flemeth gave her soul over and dies in the process, while Solas is surprised and is not ready for that decision to have been made.

 

One thing is for sure. When I started to play the game I wondered if there'll be a DA4, and I could not imagine how they'll go on from this point and where to progress with decisions we make. This was not something I wondered in DA:O and DA:2. Now, I am no longer worried, for the possibilities of continuity is given. Somewhat promised too, though it is an implied promise/teaser of comming games only.

[celebrei]

I think new revelations in Dragon Age: Inquisition clear up a lot of the lore. And I think Solas is going after the Maker.It seems that originally there were the creator gods (the Elven Pantheon), and the Old Gods (the Forgotten Ones). The Creator gods had dominion over the Fade, while the Old Gods had the physical realm. If this is true, it means that the Elven All-Father, Elgar'nan, is the figure now associated with the Maker, while Mythal, aka Flemeth, was his bride. We know that the Creators and the Old Gods were at war with one another, and we know that Elgar'nan was a wrathful god, per his name "the god of vengeance" and the story of him throwing the sun down from the sky (which I believe is a possible allusion to the creation of the Darkspawn Taint).Here's what I think happened, long ago. At some point, for some reason, Elgar'Nan (The Maker) created the Darkspawn Taint as a weapon against the Old Gods. The fact that it targets them proves that it's designed against them. We know that the Taint is ancient, far moreso than the Darkspawn, because Red Lyrium is Lyrium corrupted by the Darkspawn Taint, and its presence in the Primordial Thaig shows that it predated the First Blight by a long, long time. However, in creating the Darkspawn Taint, Elgar'Nan was himself corrupted by it. Knowing the dangers of what would happen if the Darkspawn Taint reached Thedas and turned the Old Gods into Archdemons, I believe Fen'Harel took action, duping the Old Gods into imprisonment for their own safety, and sealing Elgar'Nan and most of the rest of the creators in the Golden City (turning it into the Black City, and making it a prison for the gods).This explains several things:1. Why the city was already blackened when the Magisters set foot in it2. Why the Elven Pantheon seemingly abandoned the Elves, leading them to flee Arlathan3. Why the Maker is absent4. Why the Tevinter statue in the Mage Origin from the first game drops the hint that the Black City is a prisonIn effect, Fen'Harel saved the world by this act. Mythal was not imprisoned and remained afoot in Thedas, seeing the wisdom in it. Fast forward a ways, and the imprisoned Old God Dumat makes contact with the Tevinter Imperium from his prison. He teaches them Blood Magic, and believing Elgar'Nan still responsible for his imprisonment, advises the Magisters to assault the Gold City (Black City) to exact his revenge against Elgar'Nan. However, as Corypheus says, they arrived to find the city blackened and corrupted, and became the first Darkspawn. They brought the Darkspawn Taint back to Thedas, thereby unleashing the weapon that is the Taint and corrupting Dumat into an Archdemon. And so began the first Blight.What Fen'Harel had hoped to prevent by imprisoning everyone had happened anyway, thanks to the Tevinter Imperium. So after the first Blight had ended, it would make sense that Fen'Harel and Mythal would seek to remove the threat that Tevinter posed. Enter Andraste. I believe Flemeth/Mythal was Andraste. It fits perfectly. Perhaps Andraste was a real person and Mythal possessed her at some point in her campaign, but regardless, Andraste's claim to be being the "Bride of the Maker" is now ironically correct, when you realize that Mythal is the bride of Elgar'Nan. Andraste's campaign against Tevinter significantly weakened Tevinter, as well as eradicated their worship of the Old Gods. Problem solved, for the time being.Ever since them, the Blight has come and gone and Archdemons have risen and fallen, slain by the Grey Wardens. Mythal/Flemeth appears to have spent her time consolidating power (arranging to take Urthemial's soul, for instance). I believe Mythal and Fen'Harel's end-game is to consolidate enough power to enter into the Black City, confront the corrupt Elgar'Nan (The Maker), and purify or destroy him for good, thereby forevermore ending the threat of the Blight.

Nice hypothesis but I seriously doubt the Maker and Elgar'nan are one and the same for that would invalidate the Chantry and the core beliefs which define the being and purpose of many of the characters in DA, I agree with the other poster when he said The Maker is absent for other reasons and that the writers will probably continue to obscure his nature or whether he exists or not to highlight the "faith in the unseen" element of belief.

[Meraxes]

If the Inquisitor drank from the well, does that make them Solas/Fen'Harel's servant now? Assuming Solas is the one in charge of course.

[abearzi]

The whole game is a badly contrived mess. It started out strong, but then just ended up being the same **** from ME3 (I'm looking at you Kai Lang) and DA2; contrived boss fights and enemies monologuing when it would make perfect sense for someone to put an arrow in their eye. The massive plot holes are just advanced through some deus ex machina crap. The dragon at the Warden Fortress is the perfect example. You can attack it, but once its HP hits 1%...BAM instant god mode, because its part of a badly contrived cut scene a few minutes later. 

 

The whole story after Skyhold is unlocked seems lazy and poorly thought out.