I am explicitly seeing the sleep status effect occurring all the time.
As for the whole Rift mage DPS argument, as long as the enemy is vulnerable to Weakness status (so far I think only Giants aren't), RIft Mage with a moderate crit amount translates into never having to use a single staff attack for the duration of the fight.
Oooh, I wonder if overlapping Static Cages stack for the upgrade.
It does.
Can take out a Terror demon or Rage demon in one barrage on Nightmare with a triple stack.
Well, I feel silly for focusing on Fire first, but whatever, bouncing enemies with knockback/downs was reasonably entertaining so I don't regret it. Shame the other two lightning skills are meh. Barrage/Cage are incredible by comparison.
Does anyone know if Snoufleen crafted rogue gear the highest crit chance available on helmet/armor, or are there better sources?
Now take fast four the ather party members into consideration and you know why the Cage Upgrade is simply OP beyond belief.
It says Electric damage: 50% Weapon damage
I am not saying its not powerful but if its 50% of weapon damage of caster it does not seem game breaking. Lasts 8 secs. Sure, one can lock bunch and totally destroy it within those 8 sec but Walking Bomb can probably do the same.
The wording was: .. 600% extra on top of normal energy barrage .. 792 + 600% is not 1392% from 100 but I get it now.
About the Rift Mage Combos. If you apply Weaken on a Shocked target (Shock can happen from enough lightning damage or abilities that explicitly cause it, like Chain Lightning) you will cause the AoE Sleep combo.
So for example you could start combat with something like this:
1. Pull of the Abyss (65 mana) to gather and Weaken the enemies (enabling Restorative Veil)
2. Immolate (35 mana) to apply the DoT and regain mana
3. Chain Lightning to Shock (reduce fire/cold/lightning resistance and setup for combo)
4. Stone Fist+ (applying Weaken again) to cause damage, regain mana and proc the mass Sleep combo
5. Detonate the Sleep for another combo using Immolate or another AoE Ability (Dispel from a 2nd mage is another good option)
6. Energy Barrage
7. Repeat if necessary
Have a 2nd Mage cast Static Cage at the start of battle and you can clear just about any group of enemies that doesn't include a boss in seconds.
I am not saying its not powerful but if its 50% of weapon damage of caster it does not seem game breaking. Lasts 8 secs. Sure, one can lock bunch and totally destroy it within those 8 sec but Walking Bomb can probably do the same.
This is no argument at all.
Necromancer can take Lightning, too.
Probably because its not an argument. I was asking question regarding 600% damage on top. It was answered. Between the lines I commented on the power of Lighting Cage + Barrage combo and compared it to Walking Bomb. That is all. Well, any mage can take Lightning.
About the Rift Mage Combos. If you apply Weaken on a Shocked target (Shock can happen from enough lightning damage or abilities that explicitly cause it, like Chain Lightning) you will cause the AoE Sleep combo.
So for example you could start combat with something like this:
1. Pull of the Abyss (65 mana) to gather and Weaken the enemies (enabling Restorative Veil)
2. Immolate (35 mana) to apply the DoT and regain mana
3. Chain Lightning to Shock (reduce fire/cold/lightning resistance and setup for combo)
4. Stone Fist+ (applying Weaken again) to cause damage, regain mana and proc the mass Sleep combo
5. Detonate the Sleep for another combo using Immolate or another AoE Ability (Dispel from a 2nd mage is another good option)
6. Energy Barrage
7. Repeat if necessary
Have a 2nd Mage cast Static Cage at the start of battle and you can clear just about any group of enemies that doesn't include a boss in seconds.
This is correct.
Riftmage with lightning can easily proc an awesome CC combo.
So the last advantage of fire goes out of the window. Lightning - Fire for a riftmage by far.
Uprade on Riftmage:
Indeed, it is the worst spec against bosses.
Most bosses are immun to physical effects - Abyss and Veil Strike don´t work against bosses with "Immunity: Physical effects" at all, while Stone Fist´s throw down-component is also resisted.
II have to yet encounter one boss type enemy who doesn´t have this attribute. Alll Dragons, for example, have this attribute. All Bandit Bosses I´ve seen so far, or the Darkspawn.-leaders.
You can work around it by a crit chance- heavy equipment while taking flashpoint and clearn burn passives, but don´t be fooled: Your usefulness against bosses is seriously hampered, unlike Necro and Spiritblade, who have more sustained DPS.
@Saresi
Do you mean the knockdown / knockback / pull components of those spells don't work, or that they don't apply the weakness debuf? Because weakness is not a physical effect, it's magic (spirit if we're talking about rift mage, not sure how is categorized the grenade version).
Obviously they didn't wanted important bosses to be CC'ed into oblivion (as there is no CC immunity from repeated CC effects, so you could chain frozen / sleep / fear / paralyze / stun / knockdown etc) which makes perfect sense.
As I said, Veil Strike and Abyss don´t work.
All of Rift Mage´s CC and Debuffing is nullified against bosses, so he is down to DPS via Stone Fist.
NOT EVEN HIS PASSIVES WORK ON BOSSES. LOL. Not one of these.
And since his Focus Ability is inferior to Mark of the Inquisitor... *sigh*
Rift Mage is a pure Trash Mob Controlling Spec.
Obviously its okay in later levels with Fire Passives and a lot of critical hit chance leading to Stone Fist spamming, but..meh. Underwhelming.
II have to yet encounter one boss type enemy who doesn´t have this attribute. Alll Dragons, for example, have this attribute. All Bandit Bosses I´ve seen so far, or the Darkspawn.-leaders.
Um. It works on Dragons. You be making stuff up.
The only enemy I saw so far that is explicitly immune to "Weakness" are giants.
Ganen, you´re simply denying the OPness of static cage.
I know, Immolate and Fire Mine is nice and all and what ever. I prefer Fire + Rift my self for the style factor.
But it is simply the weaker alternative compared to lightning. Yes, without the cage upgrade, lightning would suck balls compared to fire as basic school for a rift mage. But it has the upgrade, and that means fire is blown out of the window.
Especially if you consider the context in which I´ve made that statement: Enemy resistances. Frost and Fire have far more reistances on enemies than lightning. 50% of all dragons have fire reistance. Venatori Mages have fire reistance, a very common enemy. Rage Demons. A lot of animals especially in the western regions.
This has to be considered.
but this is the thing... people who usually support the use of the storm tree simply say things without explaining them...
I mean you say "Im denying the OP'ness of cage" after I specifically ask why you make it to be better?
its not dps... its dps is very small compared to fire... and it isnt control... compared to frost is limited and short duration...
so again, what exactly makes cage or storm tree in general a good choice over either of those 2 trees for the specific purposes? is there combos I am not aware of or something?
or is the sole argument to why its better the resistances? cuz if it is, it def doesnt hold up to my standards considering that has rift mage I have veilstrike+fist or any low tier spell really, and has KE I have spirit blade.
Each proc of Barrage will cause the Cage Upgrad to proc 50% of the weapon´s damage.
That means you´ll do 600% on top of the pure Barrage damage. Equals 1392% weapon damage from ONE skill alone. Even more if you´ve taken the upgrade of Barrage.
Assuming the tooltops are correct, though.
Where is your problem, exactly?
I had more success with Rift/Lightning/Fire. I loved Cold for it's slowing/stopping power but the cool down was so long. I could cast lightning and fire about 3 to 1 on Winter's Grasp. I miss my Force Specializations. Loved controlling the battlefield with those.
I haven't started my Rift Mage yet, but let's try to do some math (I'm not 100% comfortable doing math for a game whose mechanics I'm not sure about, but I'll give it a shot). I'll start with Fire.
The relevant spells and abilities:
Fire Mine
Fire Damage:1,600% weapon damage
Activation Delay: 3 seconds
Cooldown Time: 24 seconds
Cost: 35 mana
Searing Glyph
Burning: 200% weapon damage per second
Burning Duration: 8 seconds
Pyromancer
Burning Duration Bonus: 25%
Fear Duration Bonus: 25%
Willpower on Unlock: +3
So a single use of Fire Mine (Searing Glyph) = 1600 + (200 * (8 * 1.25)) = 3600% weapon damage
Now for Storm:
Energy Barrage
Projectiles: 12
Damage per Hit: 66% weapon damage
Cooldown Time: 16 seconds
Cost: 50 mana
Energy Bombardment
Magic Resistance: -2% (for each projectile hit)
Static Cage
Duration: 8 seconds
Area of Effect: 9 meters
Paralyzed Duration: 2 seconds
Cooldown Time: 32 seconds
Cost: 65 mana
Lightning Cage
Electric Damage: 50% weapon damage (for each projectile hit)
Taking into account the resistance debuff of Energy Bombardment isn't too difficult, though I have to make some assumptions. First, I'll assume that 1% magic resistance equals 1% less damage taken, so -1% means 1% more damage taken. Second, I'll assume that the debuff from Energy Bombardment applies before the damage from Lightning Cage. Finally, I'll assume that the staff type you're using is Lightning, because Lightning Cage does deal lightning damage (and not staff damage, as Energy Barrage does).
So a single use of Static Cage -> Energy Barrage =
Sum [66 * (1 + (.02 * (N - 1))) + 50 * (1 + (.02 * N))]
from N = 0 to N = 12
I get about 1557% weapon damage.
Now, Energy Barrage is on a 16 second cooldown, whereas Fire Mine is on a 24 second cooldown, but Static Cage is on a 32 second cooldown. So you'll be having to cast a "regular" Energy Barrage about half the time. Energy Barrage alone does:
Sum [66 * (1 + (.02 * (N - 1)))]
from N = 0 to N = 12
= 879% weapon damage
Fire Mine = 3600% / 24 seconds = 150% weapon damage per second
Energy Barrage + Static Cage = (1557% + 879%) / 32 = 76% weapon damage per second
Fire Mine is also way more mana efficient, if that matters for a Rift Mage.
Unless I'm missing something, which could be likely.
You are completely ignoring Flashpoint/Clean Burn, which are dramatic contributions to sustained DPS, and they massively favor Lightning spells because:
1. Burn effects don't stack.
2. You must wait until the first Fire Mine detonates before putting down the next one since you can only have 1 Fire Mine out at a time.
3. Multiple Static Cages can affect the same target. (going off the confirmation of an above poster)
4. Energy Barrage back-to-back magic resist reduction stack (not sure as to precise mechanics though)
But even if 3 and 4 don't work, Rift Mage still favors Barrage/Static Cage combo (at least for single target DPS).
Uprade on Riftmage:
Indeed, it is the worst spec against bosses.
Most bosses are immun to physical effects - Abyss and Veil Strike don´t work against bosses with "Immunity: Physical effects" at all, while Stone Fist´s throw down-component is also resisted.
II have to yet encounter one boss type enemy who doesn´t have this attribute. Alll Dragons, for example, have this attribute. All Bandit Bosses I´ve seen so far, or the Darkspawn.-leaders.
You can work around it by a crit chance- heavy equipment while taking flashpoint and clearn burn passives, but don´t be fooled: Your usefulness against bosses is seriously hampered, unlike Necro and Spiritblade, who have more sustained DPS.
Hi Saresi you must be really bad at math. Rift Mage is by far the BEST spec against bosses. While it is true that Knight Enchanter is easier to play and you don't need much skill to stay alive, a good Rift Mage will kill bosses much faster and is a lot more fun to play as well.
You are right Abyss and Veil Strike don't work in the sense that the knockdown/cc effect doesn't work, but the weaken effect still works, and that is all that you need to have infinite mana and no spell cooldowns. With the right build you can be casting Energy Barrage, Immolate, Fire Mine and Stonefist pretty much non stop, you will almost never be autoattacking, due to Flash Point and Clean Burn, you will always have Barrier and Fade Step available when you need it, so you are unkillable. Rift Mage has easily more than 3x the dps of Necro or Spirit Blade. What other mage can cast Stone Fist, Immolate, 3x Energy Barrage, 2x Fire Mine all within 4-5s of the battle starting.
but this is the thing... people who usually support the use of the storm tree simply say things without explaining them...
I mean you say "Im denying the OP'ness of cage" after I specifically ask why you make it to be better?
its not dps... its dps is very small compared to fire... and it isnt control... compared to frost is limited and short duration...
Hi Ganen have you tried static cage (with it's upgrade in the game)?
Think of static cage like an aoe Mark of the Assassin, except instead of multiplying the total amount of damage you do during the duration, it multiplies the total number of hits. And I'm totally ignoring all the extra benefits you get from it's status effects and detonators and all that stuff.
I personally still prefer Pull of the Abyss to Static Cage, but I can definitely see why someone else would choose Static Cage instead and I wouldn't think they are wrong to do so.
You are completely ignoring Flashpoint/Clean Burn, which are dramatic contributions to sustained DPS, and they massively favor Lightning spells because:
1. Burn effects don't stack.
2. You must wait until the first Fire Mine detonates before putting down the next one since you can only have 1 Fire Mine out at a time.
3. Multiple Static Cages can affect the same target. (going off the confirmation of an above poster)
4. Energy Barrage back-to-back magic resist reduction stack (not sure as to precise mechanics though)
But even if 3 and 4 don't work, Rift Mage still favors Barrage/Static Cage combo (at least for single target DPS).
Do you have the math to prove your assertion? I don't disagree, I'd just like to see the math.
I think when Necromancer's WB explodes it causes detonation just like Stone Fist. Can anyone else test that? If so Static Cage and Walking Bomb gives Necromancer an edge over Rift Mage though whole debuff-buff potencial of Rift Mage can not be ignored only thing it lacks it DoT damage.
You can have both Static Cage and Pull of the Abyss.
I always start with Pull, then 2 staff attacks, Static Cage, and then go mad with stone fist / chain lightning / barrier etc. Always start of the fight is about controlling / setting up the battlefield with a Rift mage, and not about burning down a single enemy - IMHO.
Regarding Energy Barrage - the debuff is only good if your staff dmg is same type as your main basic element type (if you're spec lightning and your staff does fire damage, yey not so great hehe). I prefer CL since it debuffs all types of magic resistance (including spirit tehehe).
Leave burst damage to Assassins / Tempests and focus on controlling the battlefield IMHO (I will never come close to what Sara / Varric can pull off, or what my other PC Assassin in terms of burst damage, and that's fine).
I haven't started my Rift Mage yet, but let's try to do some math (I'm not 100% comfortable doing math for a game whose mechanics I'm not sure about, but I'll give it a shot). I'll start with Fire.
[snip]
Taking into account the resistance debuff of Energy Bombardment isn't too difficult, though I have to make some assumptions. First, I'll assume that 1% magic resistance equals 1% less damage taken, so -1% means 1% more damage taken. Second, I'll assume that the debuff from Energy Bombardment applies before the damage from Lightning Cage. Finally, I'll assume that the staff type you're using is Lightning, because Lightning Cage does deal lightning damage (and not staff damage, as Energy Barrage does).
[snip]
Thanks for the post. Indeed, unless tested, we rely on assumptions. Just a note on the magic resistance "- 1 % means 1% more" would mean there could be negative magic resistance. Intuitively, every enemy was assigned magic resistance from 0 - 100 (%). It is then questionable whether lowering resistance beyond 0 does in fact increase damage. And if its possible to go to negative magic resistance it could also be possible to go over 100%, in which case the +/- assumption would differ based on specifics.
The description is funny anyway: .. for a short time.. New age time measurement or something.
Do you have the math to prove your assertion? I don't disagree, I'd just like to see the math.
Too many variables (crit rate, how many instances of damage your team does, explicitly which spells get the cooldown reset, etc.) for a quick, clean answer; and I am lazy. And that's not counting Chaotic Focus bonus to Firemine vs. the barrage of combos you get when Static Cage and Weaken/Shocked combine. (not to mention I don't know exactly whenever combos feed back into the static cage proc, which judging by the amount of blue numbers and how much faster groups evaporate compare to single targets, they do.)
Though, at the end of the day, having tried both dps routines, Static Cage resulted in significantly faster kills than Fire Mine for me. My position is largely anecdotal, though if you want to be super simple about it, just add up how many attacks per second your team does and multiply that by 50% DPS to consider the raw sustained damage power of having permanent static cage up time or multiple static cages at once. That number is going to be considerably higher than the 150% you calculated even by the roughest of estimations.
And if you want to be completely realistic, you want both Fire and Lightning; because Rift Mage true DPS potential ultimately lies in how hard you can abuse the infinite mana + flashpoint loop, so a streak of bad RNG shuts your damage output down - having both Fire Mine and Static Cage on your skill bar mitigates all but the worst RNG streaks once you get 30%+ crit chance.
*And there are also skill rings to consider. The Static Cage boosting ring, should you happen to find it, is kinda silly OP as it adds +80% duration to the spell rather than the listed 30%. I haven't seen a Firemine ring yet, but I have high hopes for it.
A question, do these setup mixed well with FF on ?
Because i can easily see that these skills blender my own team into oblivion
After another testing i can confirm when Walking Bomb explodes it triggers Combo, enemies got asleep status but it won't work when pc explodes WB prematurerly(can be a bug); it had to explode upon timers end or death (WB explodes even the targeted enemy is not dead). Most interesting thing is after asleep status i managed to create Nightmare combo with fear.
Bomb takes 10 sec to detonate and static Cage is 8 sec long so WB followed with static cage and finished with horror simply devastes groups.
Worth nothing despite the description of Virulent Walking Bomb spreads other enemies even without killing the inital target, even a manual explosion spreads the WB.
Further testing shocked enemies when they explode cause weakness status. Still working on it but WB definitely a detonator.
Even further testing shows, shocked enemies got asleep status after normal explosions = no killing needed, no manual explosion.
Final verdict WB is a dependable detonator with a Shock build.
A question, do these setup mixed well with FF on ?
Rift Mage is pretty friendly for FF - Fist/Veil/Static Cage do not affect allies, and Pull is easy enough to use to keep a large batch of enemies in place long enough to combo them.
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