225 réponses à ce sujet

[GhoXen]

On a properly geared party, a full Rift mage can keep enemies 30%  weakened nearly all the time. As a result, most enemies only hit my party for 1 damage per hit nowadays, on Nightmare.

[Ganen]

You are completely ignoring Flashpoint/Clean Burn, which are dramatic contributions to sustained DPS, and they massively favor Lightning spells because:

 

1. Burn effects don't stack.

2. You must wait until the first Fire Mine detonates before putting down the next one since you can only have 1 Fire Mine out at a time.

3. Multiple Static Cages can affect the same target. (going off the confirmation of an above poster)

4. Energy Barrage back-to-back magic resist reduction stack (not sure as to precise mechanics though)

 

But even if 3 and 4 don't work, Rift Mage still favors Barrage/Static Cage combo (at least for single target DPS).

 

the arguments keep making less and less sense to me...

 

1. so what? nothing compels you to waste a fire mine's dot by placing another if you get the cd proc or an immolate, to maximize dps you put in a mine, do some dps with another spell, like spirit blade, chain lightning, barrage, stone fist, whatever your build is, it should have at least 1 tier 1 nuke to build in between fire dots.

2- this is a weakness how? the dmg will be the same for the exact same cost, in fact since we are discussing rift mage synergy specifically this is even a non issue, as you can just use a pull of the abyss to not only trigger them ine exactly when you want, but also catch the most number of targets as you want.

3-multiple fire mines stack too, the only thing that doesnt stack is the dot, but 2 mages placing 2 fire mines will do 2X the dmg, and guess what fire mine BASE dmg is much higher than the entirety of a static cage dmg, I mentioned this many times before, but I dont think it sunk in yet... we are talking about the spell that effortlessly hits for 2-3k dmg and can reach combo/debuff crits of over 6-7k(base dmg no dot included)

4- sure and you can have it on any fire build with little problems and even if you dont, a barrage buffed lightning cage still does much less dmg than a unbuffed fire mine.

 

 

I haven't started my Rift Mage yet, but let's try to do some math (I'm not 100% comfortable doing math for a game whose mechanics I'm not sure about, but I'll give it a shot).  I'll start with Fire.

 

The relevant spells and abilities:

 

Fire Mine

Fire Damage:1,600% weapon damage

Activation Delay: 3 seconds

Cooldown Time: 24 seconds

Cost: 35 mana

 

Searing Glyph

Burning: 200% weapon damage per second

Burning Duration: 8 seconds

 

Pyromancer

Burning Duration Bonus: 25%

Fear Duration Bonus: 25%

Willpower on Unlock: +3

 

So a single use of Fire Mine (Searing Glyph) = 1600 + (200 * (8 * 1.25)) = 3600% weapon damage

 

Now for Storm:

 

Energy Barrage

Projectiles: 12

Damage per Hit: 66% weapon damage

Cooldown Time: 16 seconds

Cost: 50 mana

 

Energy Bombardment

Magic Resistance: -2% (for each projectile hit)

 

Static Cage

Duration: 8 seconds

Area of Effect: 9 meters

Paralyzed Duration: 2 seconds

Cooldown Time: 32 seconds

Cost: 65 mana

 

Lightning Cage

Electric Damage: 50% weapon damage (for each projectile hit)

 

Taking into account the resistance debuff of Energy Bombardment isn't too difficult, though I have to make some assumptions.  First, I'll assume that 1% magic resistance equals 1% less damage taken, so -1% means 1% more damage taken.  Second, I'll assume that the debuff from Energy Bombardment applies before the damage from Lightning Cage.  Finally, I'll assume that the staff type you're using is Lightning, because Lightning Cage does deal lightning damage (and not staff damage, as Energy Barrage does).

 

So a single use of Static Cage -> Energy Barrage = 

 

Sum [66 * (1 + (.02 * (N - 1))) + 50 * (1 + (.02 * N))]

from N = 0 to N = 12

 

I get about 1557% weapon damage.

 

Now, Energy Barrage is on a 16 second cooldown, whereas Fire Mine is on a 24 second cooldown, but Static Cage is on a 32 second cooldown.  So you'll be having to cast a "regular" Energy Barrage about half the time.  Energy Barrage alone does:

 

Sum [66 * (1 + (.02 * (N - 1)))]

from N = 0 to N = 12

 

= 879% weapon damage

 

Fire Mine = 3600% / 24 seconds = 150% weapon damage per second

Energy Barrage + Static Cage = (1557% + 879%) / 32 = 76% weapon damage per second

 

Fire Mine is also way more mana efficient, if that matters for a Rift Mage.

 

Unless I'm missing something, which could be likely.

 

this is what I been trying to explain to the player supporting lightning cage as better dps than fire, but heres the kicker, you forgot to include chaotic fire, that gives even more damage to all your fire spells for as long as you got a barrier up and are willing to sacrifice it.

 

Hi Ganen have you tried static cage (with it's upgrade in the game)? 

 

Think of static cage like an aoe Mark of the Assassin, except instead of multiplying the total amount of damage you do during the duration, it multiplies the total number of hits. And I'm totally ignoring all the extra benefits you get from it's status effects and detonators and all that stuff. 

 

I personally still prefer Pull of the Abyss to Static Cage, but I can definitely see why someone else would choose Static Cage instead and I wouldn't think they are wrong to do so.

 

yes I have tried it which is why I am so passionately debating storm mage supporters, because either Im missing something or they are simply unaware of fire capacity for dps to compare it with.

 

mark of death effectively stores all dmg you do until the time you trigger it for the whole dmg that was stored in one spell, lightning cage procs lightning zaps, I hardly see how it compares in terms of dmg really..

if I am using the spells in a incorrect order or am not taking the ideal party setup to trigger the strong detonations, this is what I need to know, because I have tested it in terms of raw dps and it just cannot even hope to compete with rift mage -> fire, its just, NO contest, I mean people dont even need to do any math, its clear as daylight just by looking at the health bars and how long things take to die,, just pickup pull of the abyss + static cage and test it on a group of mobs, then respec to full fire and test it again on the group of mobs and see how much fire mine puts cage to shame in the dps department.

 

pull of the abyss is pretty much the best CC in the game, especially if you play with friendly fire, but we are comparing rift mage + other trees, so its a given that storm mage will have both and fire mage will not, hence the storm vs fire debate 

[Commander Michael]

Rift Mage is waaay stronger than KE, especially on nightmare, because you don't have to worry about getting hit. Unlike KE you don't have to get close to do damage, and you have infinite barrier and fade step. Also if you pay attention to when you crit, Energy Barrage and Chain Lightning very frequently will proc a crit, then you wait for the Flash Point crit before casting your long cooldown spells like Fire Mine and Pull of the Abyss, it just gets completely out of control. I used to think with Clean Burn I would be casting Fire Mine about every 10-12 secs, but if you watch for the Flash Point proc instead you can easily be casting Fire Mine every 4-5s. 

To add insult to injury, Stonefist is currently bugged right now, the cooldown is way shorter than 8s. I know I have Flash Point and Clean Burn, but even without any crits the cooldown on Stonefist is refreshing way faster than the 4-5s I would usually expect.

 

Did I mention the infinite mana? If you pause strategically you can easily cast 7-8 spells in 4-5s. How is this not completely broken?

 

This is only pretty much true if you play with friendly fire off. Knight Enchanter is way more friendly fire friendly than something like Pull of the Abyss that weakens everything inside (like your tank who SHOULD be in the middle of everything). Chain lightning in particular is terrible if you have FF on. You'll just kill yourself. Firemine same thing. 

 

Unless you want to very carefully micro where and when you cast your big AoE spells, pick Knight enchanter for faster and easier combat.

[Anelyn77]

Actually Rift mage & FF work amazing. Because, you actually control the battlefield. My tank will not be in the middle of Pull of the Abyss. He can taunt from sides or pick an individual target and move it away from rest etc. 

 

Because for me, that's the role of a tank, to help with controlling the battlefield and manage aggro. He/she ain't supposed to be in the middle of everything. 

 

Say I want to close a rift with a pride demon and several wraith's. I'll taunt the pride demon with my tank and drag him to a side (where my tank can start building threat on him / shieldwall etc as needed) while I Pull of Abyss the wraiths together and annihilate them with AoE's from rest of the group. That's why tac cam is amazing for planning each encounter, then once you get your initial setup going, you can play action mode to complete it etc.

[themaxzero]

 

the arguments keep making less and less sense to me...

 

1. so what? nothing compels you to waste a fire mine's dot by placing another if you get the cd proc or an immolate, to maximize dps you put in a mine, do some dps with another spell, like spirit blade, chain lightning, barrage, stone fist, whatever your build is, it should have at least 1 tier 1 nuke to build in between fire dots.

2- this is a weakness how? the dmg will be the same for the exact same cost, in fact since we are discussing rift mage synergy specifically this is even a non issue, as you can just use a pull of the abyss to not only trigger them ine exactly when you want, but also catch the most number of targets as you want.

3-multiple fire mines stack too, the only thing that doesnt stack is the dot, but 2 mages placing 2 fire mines will do 2X the dmg, and guess what fire mine BASE dmg is much higher than the entirety of a static cage dmg, I mentioned this many times before, but I dont think it sunk in yet... we are talking about the spell that effortlessly hits for 2-3k dmg and can reach combo/debuff crits of over 6-7k(base dmg no dot included)

4- sure and you can have it on any fire build with little problems and even if you dont, a barrage buffed lightning cage still does much less dmg than a unbuffed fire mine.

 

 

 

this is what I been trying to explain to the player supporting lightning cage as better dps than fire, but heres the kicker, you forgot to include chaotic fire, that gives even more damage to all your fire spells for as long as you got a barrier up and are willing to sacrifice it.

 

 

yes I have tried it which is why I am so passionately debating storm mage supporters, because either Im missing something or they are simply unaware of fire capacity for dps to compare it with.

 

mark of death effectively stores all dmg you do until the time you trigger it for the whole dmg that was stored in one spell, lightning cage procs lightning zaps, I hardly see how it compares in terms of dmg really..

if I am using the spells in a incorrect order or am not taking the ideal party setup to trigger the strong detonations, this is what I need to know, because I have tested it in terms of raw dps and it just cannot even hope to compete with rift mage -> fire, its just, NO contest, I mean people dont even need to do any math, its clear as daylight just by looking at the health bars and how long things take to die,, just pickup pull of the abyss + static cage and test it on a group of mobs, then respec to full fire and test it again on the group of mobs and see how much fire mine puts cage to shame in the dps department.

 

pull of the abyss is pretty much the best CC in the game, especially if you play with friendly fire, but we are comparing rift mage + other trees, so its a given that storm mage will have both and fire mage will not, hence the storm vs fire debate 

 

 

Static Cage applies to every hit the target takes. So your whole party gets a damage buff.

 

Add to that you can stack Static Cage. A double stack gives +100% weapon damage per hit. A triple 150%.

[Commander Michael]

Actually Rift mage & FF work amazing. Because, you actually control the battlefield. My tank will not be in the middle of Pull of the Abyss. He can taunt from sides or pick an individual target and move it away from rest etc. 

 

Because for me, that's the role of a tank, to help with controlling the battlefield and manage aggro. He/she ain't supposed to be in the middle of everything. 

 

Say I want to close a rift with a pride demon and several wraith's. I'll taunt the pride demon with my tank and drag him to a side (where my tank can start building threat on him / shieldwall etc as needed) while I Pull of Abyss the wraiths together and annihilate them with AoE's from rest of the group. That's why tac cam is amazing for planning each encounter, then once you get your initial setup going, you can play action mode to complete it etc.

 

Friendly fire friendly means that it doesn't harm your party. What you just said was that Rift mage CAN work if you micromanage it properly; which it certainly can. Point still stands, rift mage is NOT friendly fire friendly as you have to careful aim it to not screw over your own guys. 

 

To me, the role of the tank is to take the damage so no one else has to. Being in the thick of the fight usually helps. Controlling and CCing people is for mages/rogues.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Turns out we were wrong about the Rift Mage.

 

Check this thread out :- http://forum.bioware...-rift-mage-bug/

 

Turns out Rift Mage is bugged. Surprise, surprise ! 

 

At this point I am thinking that Bioware spent most of their time designing the Knight Enchanter specialization and then half-arsing Rift Mages and Necromancers. That is why Knight Enchanters have such a cohesive skill set that all works properly whereas Necromancers and Rift Mages are bugged in their own ways.

 

I am going to further speculate that this is because the game is mostly developed for action play with tactical mode being a mere afterthought, judging from its buggyness, so Knight Enchanters got all the attention, leaving Rift Mages and Necromancers in the dust...

 

 

#DownWithKnightEnchanterPrivilege

 

#SaveNecromancersAndRiftMages

[Aeradom]

Turns out we were wrong about the Rift Mage.

 

Check this thread out :- http://forum.bioware...-rift-mage-bug/

 

Turns out Rift Mage is bugged. Surprise, surprise ! 

 

At this point I am thinking that Bioware spent most of their time designing the Knight Enchanter specialization and then half-arsing Rift Mages and Necromancers. That is why Knight Enchanters have such a cohesive skill set that all works properly whereas Necromancers and Rift Mages are bugged in their own ways.

 

I am going to further speculate that this is because the game is mostly developed for action play with tactical mode being a mere afterthought, judging from its buggyness, so Knight Enchanters got all the attention, leaving Rift Mages and Necromancers in the dust...

 

 

#DownWithKnightEnchanterPrivilege

 

#SaveNecromancersAndRiftMages

I wish I understood where all this damage you guys are talking about is in my game. I do the Pull of the Abyss + Fire Mine combo and everyone is still alive, several with around half health. How is this possible? I mean the DPS on Solos is 96, is that low for this? 

[Aeradom]

Friendly fire friendly means that it doesn't harm your party. What you just said was that Rift mage CAN work if you micromanage it properly; which it certainly can. Point still stands, rift mage is NOT friendly fire friendly as you have to careful aim it to not screw over your own guys. 

 

To me, the role of the tank is to take the damage so no one else has to. Being in the thick of the fight usually helps. Controlling and CCing people is for mages/rogues.

My poor tank still get's murdered by shadows though  

[Aeradom]

On a properly geared party, a full Rift mage can keep enemies 30%  weakened nearly all the time. As a result, most enemies only hit my party for 1 damage per hit nowadays, on Nightmare.

 

What? How? *cries* 

[JaegerBane]

 
At this point I am thinking that Bioware spent most of their time designing the Knight Enchanter specialization and then half-arsing Rift Mages and Necromancers. That is why Knight Enchanters have such a cohesive skill set that all works properly whereas Necromancers and Rift Mages are bugged in their own ways.
 

I do think both the Necromancer and the Rift Mage are cop outs - they're essentially just the schools from the earlier games that didn't fit into the elemental layout. However, at least the Necro has some overall theme and flavour in place.

The Rift Mage's spells don't really make any sense being in the same school and the spec's focus isn't really that distinct from the basic gameplay of any normal mage, it's really just weakness mechanic that sets it apart. Compared to the Force Mage, it's a downgrade and a half.

I don't see what the big deal is though - DA:O had it's share of duffer specs too. The important thing is there are specs worth using

[Magma_Axis]

I just read that Stonefist trigger combos but do no extra damage, like when you froze enemy, use Stonefist, SHATTER occurred but no extra damage happen, just normal Stonefist damage. Anyone can confirm ?

 

This is just like Mighty Blow trigger SHATTER and do 1 damage, but a bit better because it still do normal damage instead of 1

[Selea]

At this point I am thinking that Bioware spent most of their time designing the Knight Enchanter specialization 

 

Neither this in truth because KE is evidently broken. It is obvious to everyone that plays the spec even for only 10 minutes that Fade Shield turns the character immortal no matter what. It works on all attack/skills that do damage, it has no drawbacks whatsoever (differently from +guard skills on the S&S line), it is early in the tree and it even has a strong effect (30% of damage done is clearly a lot).

Either Bioware wanted taking the KE spec equivalent to having a "god mode cheat" (which I don't think is the case) or they clearly didn't test the spec in practice if not just to understand if the skills worked (as in if there wasn't a bug in the code).

As for the weakness bug I really hope Bioware will fix it asap (i.e. in the first patch) because it turns playing with Rift mages problematic (practically it makes all the primary spells of the line to not work correctly and synergies as mana regen and combos too).

[odi0n]

I am just disappointed at the current state of youtube lacking more Rift Mage builds. KE all over the place. Lol.

When YouTube finally catches up to Rift Mage, I look forward to seeing all the unique and different combinations people come up with.

[Selea]

For now videos in Youtube are really lacking for what it concerns builds. The game is new and people are obviously still experimenting the best synergies before coming out with what are the most powerful combinations.

KE is pretty straightforward and anything works with it. You just need Fade Shield and you become immortal no matter what you do (you can really pick whatever skills you want; the difference is only on how much damage you can dish out and not really on making the spec more or less viable).

[Magma_Axis]

Neither this in truth because KE is evidently broken. It is obvious to everyone that plays the spec even for only 10 minutes that Fade Shield turns the character immortal no matter what. It works on all attack/skills that do damage, it has no drawbacks whatsoever (differently from +guard skills on the S&S line), it is early in the tree and it even has a strong effect (30% of damage done is clearly a lot).
Either Bioware wanted taking the KE spec equivalent to having a "god mode cheat" (which I don't think is the case) or they clearly didn't test the spec in practice if not just to understand if the skills worked (as in if there wasn't a bug in the code).
As for the weakness bug I really hope Bioware will fix it asap (i.e. in the first patch) because it turns playing with Rift mages problematic (practically it makes all the primary spells of the line to not work correctly and synergies as mana regen and combos too).

Unfortunately, Bioware only care for party banter bug right now. I really think that bugged abilities should take priority along with freezes, crashes and save corruption bug

[knownastherat]

Unfortunately, Bioware only care for party banter bug right now. I really think that bugged abilities should take priority along with freezes, crashes and save corruption bug

 

Scuttlebutt (Spoilers)

Discuss rumors, journalism, convention coverage and social media surrounding Dragon Age: Inquisition. 14,140 topics 821,287 replies

 

Combat & Strategy

Think you know the best way to stop The Elder One? Discuss it and other strategies here. 438 topics 3,810 replies

[Magma_Axis]

Scuttlebutt (Spoilers)
Discuss rumors, journalism, convention coverage and social media surrounding Dragon Age: Inquisition. 14,140 topics 821,287 replies
 

Combat & Strategy
Think you know the best way to stop The Elder One? Discuss it and other strategies here. 438 topics 3,810 replies

Hehe, i guess the role playing aspect is far more important in Dragon Age

I enjoyed the gameplay part more, maybe because of that I still think DA2 combat is the best in the series (minus the stupid fall from the sky encounter design).

[Anelyn77]

Actually it is, because after spending hours to explore the map or beating a hard foe to gain access to a book or piece of lore and you read it, or you examine something and nothing happens (no window pop up with text, no xp gain, no codex entry, no nothing) it's really cutting the immersion and breaks the flow.

 

Anyway, dragons are affected by weakness if anyone had doubts. Just killed Crestwood and Hinterland ones (party level 15) and had no problems (hard difficulty).

[Selea]

Actually it is, because after spending hours to explore the map or beating a hard foe to gain access to a book or piece of lore and you read it, or you examine something and nothing happens (no window pop up with text, no xp gain, no codex entry, no nothing) it's really cutting the immersion and breaks the flow.

 

Sure, but it breaks it even more if you spend 20 hours (in the case you already know what to do, many more if you don't) in a char, design it fully in anticipation for what you want to obtain and then you get the spec (in this case Rift Mage) and all of it crumbles for a bug that completely gimps the concept behind it.

Naturally this is the most glaring case for what it concerns bugs tied to abilities but in almost every class there's a skill or two that don't work as they should and this is even arguably more important to fix than not having XP from a codex entry o a side quest not working properly. I consider a bug as the one of Rift Mage on par on a breaking bug on the main quest as it forces you to completely discard the concept you had, wait until a patch comes that fixes the issue or restart completely anew.

[themaxzero]

 

Scuttlebutt (Spoilers)

Discuss rumors, journalism, convention coverage and social media surrounding Dragon Age: Inquisition. 14,140 topics 821,287 replies

 

Combat & Strategy

Think you know the best way to stop The Elder One? Discuss it and other strategies here. 438 topics 3,810 replies

 

 

You do of course realize that the Scuttlebutt forum goes back several years right? The Combat and strategy forum only came about once the game was officially released.

 

If you compare it to the no spoilers scuttlebutt forum (came out at the same time) it is roughly 1/4 as popular. Not quite the difference you allude too.

[Steeltrap]

I wish I understood where all this damage you guys are talking about is in my game. I do the Pull of the Abyss + Fire Mine combo and everyone is still alive, several with around half health. How is this possible? I mean the DPS on Solos is 96, is that low for this? 

 

Go down the left side of the tree for the mana restoration bonus and the pull of the abyss upgrade so you get all your mana back from the fire mine damage. My strategy is to open with pull of the abyss + fire mine initially, when fire mine activates you get all of your mana back and then I place down an ice mine and immolate combo which activates just as pull of the abyss finishes and locks everyone in place for a further 5 seconds. Everyone should be nearly dead at this point especially if you have a 2h warrior for a whirlwind shatter combo

[knownastherat]

You do of course realize that the Scuttlebutt forum goes back several years right? The Combat and strategy forum only came about once the game was officially released.

 

If you compare it to the no spoilers scuttlebutt forum (came out at the same time) it is roughly 1/4 as popular. Not quite the difference you allude too.

 

Yes I do.

 

The only thing I was alluding to was to agree with the comment I quoted. Thread about "Heterosexuality" in DA:I gets more attention than thread about "Elemental resistance", which says something about the community and if Bioware listens to feedback it hints at Bioware priorities. 

 

btw been like that since DA:O  

[themaxzero]

Yes I do.

 

The only thing I was alluding to was to agree with the comment I quoted. Thread about "Heterosexuality" in DA:I gets more attention than thread about "Elemental resistance", which says something about the community and if Bioware listens to feedback it hints at Bioware priorities. 

 

btw been like that since DA:O  

 

Yeah but everyone knows Bioware's forums have always been full of crap. Even back in the BG, NWN and KotOR days. Outside of the gameplay forum you basically take nothing seriously.

 

Bioware staff should know that better then anyone. Do you think they are keeping track of a 200 page Carth appreciation thread?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am curious about something.

 

Which is better for a Rift Mage ? Frost Step or Winter's Grasp ?