86 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaz Darkbane]

My one disappointment with this guide, is that it's so well considered, and i feel like i don't need to experiment myself 

I will try other builds..., but it looks exceedingly good, and my Reaver at level 12 is getting quite efficient now.

Many thanks Chaz!

Thanks. I felt like the thread was needed when I saw nothing but posts and threads of people complaining about how the Reaver was a bad tank and somehow needed buffs. People need to understand how ability synergy works. If you have a ton of skills and passive abilities that increase your effectiveness when you kill people, you are probably meant to be killing people. Just because you are wearing heavy armor does not mean you are meant to be taking all the hits.

 

I am going to be experimenting with other classes for the next week, but look forward to more of my guides popping up once I have a handle on how they work. I was planning on putting up a Templar one next, but seeing as I can foresee some changes coming to it; I will hold off for now.

[stiff_muffins]

Reaver is my new favorite class. 


I went with ring of pain and while its good it has caused me to die in some silly ways due to the stamina suck. I when I prestige I was going to give warhorn a try, thanks for specing this out, can't wait to give it a spin.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Chaz, you have a good build and a solid theory behind it.  I understand what you are trying to do, how you want to use War Horn to panic enemies and then use your passives to auto-critical these panic'd enemies and lower your cooldown of Rampage (specifically) in the process.  It makes sense.  I am glad War Horn works for you and you enjoy using it in this manner.  War Horn has other benefits which do help the team.

 

However, War Horn is not for me.  War Horn slows down the rate at which I can kill things with my Reaver and lowers my DPS output.  I view this as bad.  For me, War Horn is at best a situational active skill that I would only use to escape combat and not to use to initiate my offense attack chain.  Furthermore, you can not consistently use War Horn to completely reduce the cooldown of Rampage like you suggest.  You are really selling the passive Flow of Battle more so than you are War Horn.  

 

As you said above, "Panic causes enemies to run around stupid and this is no problem for you to chase down because... you lunge forward toward targets"  

 

Actually, causing them to run around stupid is very much a problem for me, especially if I need to get 15 criticals in a 6 second window in order to fully cool down my rampage like you suggest. 

 

War Horn cause all enemies within 8 meters to panic and flee in all directions for 6 seconds.  The enemies do not all go in the same direction.  They scatter.  As you chase 1 down in one direction you are taking yourself further away from the other enemies that scattered in the complete opposite direction.  Rampage lasts 10 seconds and has a 25.5 second cool down.  You would need to chase enemies all over for 6 seconds and have 15 criticals in this time to completely reset Rampage.  Actually you have 10 seconds to score these criticals, but in seconds 7-10 of rampage you are dependent upon critical strikes causing panic among more enemies to continue the auto-critical chain.  If you War Horn and then Rampage, the enemies will get further away from you in the seconds as you cast Rampage.  If you cast Rampage first and then War Horn you are wasting time of your Rampage casting War Horn instead of killing. 

 

When I play with my friends or other players of the same skill level and the entire group of enemies is panic'd, I can at best kill 5 of them before my teammates finish the rest of them off.  5 critical 1 shot kills reduces the cool down of Rampage from 15.5 seconds to 10.5.   Playing with the same team, same enemies, but they are not panic'd and without relying on auto-criticals, I generally will kill 8-10 of the enemies in the same time frame b/c I am not chasing panic'd enemies around and they are all grouped together for easy killing.  And then with my level 20 amulet that gives +15% cool down, I will have ~12 second cool down on rampage.  

 

The true benefit of War Horn is as an "O ****" button to be used when you have overextended yourself in combat and you need to buy yourself 6 seconds to escape and survive.  Hence why you said above, "War Horn provides crowd control and increases survivability."

 

And finally.. Why do you need Rampage to be back instantly if all the enemies are dead and it takes you 15 seconds to get to the next group of mobs?

[xROLLxTIDEx]

For the record, I'm not saying that War Horn is bad or that RoP is better or that everyone should spec out of War Horn.  Flow of Battle is a great passive ability. Rampage + Dragon Rage + Devour is the bread and butter of the Reaver and the 4th active skill is whatever suits the player's needs the best.

 

It is better to use War Horn in this way..

 

Activate Rampage.. Dragon Rage and/or Devour for 10 seconds.. and when Rampage ends, activate War Horn buying your Reaver 6 seconds of panic'ed enemies/survivability while Rampage is on cooldown, plus Flow of Battle to reduce said cool down so that you can stay alive and activate Rampage to get back into the fray.

 

You shouldn't start with War Horn to make all the enemies run away from your melee character. 

 

I like your build Chaz.  You have sold me on Flow of Battle.   As for War Horn or RoP or Combat Roll, that comes down to preference.

 

Would you rather have that extra damage output in those 3-4 instances where you would actually use RoP during a run? or

Would you rather have the escapability of Combat Roll to get you out of sticky situations to survive? or

Would you rather have the CC/Survivabilty that War Horn offers you?

 

I think this 4th skill is player preference.  That is all.

[Chaz Darkbane]

Chaz, you have a good build and a solid theory behind it.  I understand what you are trying to do, how you want to use War Horn to panic enemies and then use your passives to auto-critical these panic'd enemies and lower your cooldown of Rampage (specifically) in the process.  It makes sense.  I am glad War Horn works for you and you enjoy using it in this manner.  War Horn has other benefits which do help the team.

 

However, War Horn is not for me.  War Horn slows down the rate at which I can kill things with my Reaver and lowers my DPS output.  I view this as bad.  For me, War Horn is at best a situational active skill that I would only use to escape combat and not to use to initiate my offense attack chain.  Furthermore, you can not consistently use War Horn to completely reduce the cooldown of Rampage like you suggest.  You are really selling the passive Flow of Battle more so than you are War Horn.  

 

As you said above, "Panic causes enemies to run around stupid and this is no problem for you to chase down because... you lunge forward toward targets"  

 

Actually, causing them to run around stupid is very much a problem for me, especially if I need to get 15 criticals in a 6 second window in order to fully cool down my rampage like you suggest. 

 

War Horn cause all enemies within 8 meters to panic and flee in all directions for 6 seconds.  The enemies do not all go in the same direction.  They scatter.  As you chase 1 down in one direction you are taking yourself further away from the other enemies that scattered in the complete opposite direction.  Rampage lasts 10 seconds and has a 25.5 second cool down.  You would need to chase enemies all over for 6 seconds and have 15 criticals in this time to completely reset Rampage.  Actually you have 10 seconds to score these criticals, but in seconds 7-10 of rampage you are dependent upon critical strikes causing panic among more enemies to continue the auto-critical chain.  If you War Horn and then Rampage, the enemies will get further away from you in the seconds as you cast Rampage.  If you cast Rampage first and then War Horn you are wasting time of your Rampage casting War Horn instead of killing. 

 

When I play with my friends or other players of the same skill level and the entire group of enemies is panic'd, I can at best kill 5 of them before my teammates finish the rest of them off.  5 critical 1 shot kills reduces the cool down of Rampage from 15.5 seconds to 10.5.   Playing with the same team, same enemies, but they are not panic'd and without relying on auto-criticals, I generally will kill 8-10 of the enemies in the same time frame b/c I am not chasing panic'd enemies around and they are all grouped together for easy killing.  And then with my level 20 amulet that gives +15% cool down, I will have ~12 second cool down on rampage.  

 

The true benefit of War Horn is as an "O ****" button to be used when you have overextended yourself in combat and you need to buy yourself 6 seconds to escape and survive.  Hence why you said above, "War Horn provides crowd control and increases survivability."

 

And finally.. Why do you need Rampage to be back instantly if all the enemies are dead and it takes you 15 seconds to get to the next group of mobs?

 

I am glad to hear Ring of Pain works for you. Really I am, as I stated before the guide is simply meant to give people an idea on how to build and spec out their own Reaver with optimal efficiency. I even stated that if you want to swap abilities out for one another you may do so, I am by no means telling you how you should enjoy your own time with the class and have no means of knowing what items you may or may not have to improve your experience and build around. 

 

But the guide is not just for you, it is meant as a guide for everyone, new players and veterans alike. So when I made it when the most optimal choice for any item set in mind. If you think that the cooldown of Rampage is low enough with your amulet that insuring the crits isn't necessary that is fine, but when you argue with my points with something similar to "I like it better therefore it is better" you are not only stating your preference, you are challenging me to defend my point against yours. When you flat out state my point on an ability is wrong, you do that as well.

 

War Horn makes up in spades what it lacks in damage, causing your own damage to skyrocket and insuring that both you and your own team take no damage from a group of enemies is a major thing, especially on threatening and perilous difficulties. If you would prefer the outright damage of Ring of Pain that is up to you but my reasoning behind my choice is completely sound. If enemies cannot attack or block it makes them sitting ducks for your team and for you. If that also happens to skyrocket your damage as well then it is even better.

 

The guide is made with the idea of helping new players with the most optimal choices for your skills as possible, and I believe I did that. Remember, outside from panicked and sleeping enemies critical hit is a chance; if you don't have a method of reliably scoring criticals than it may just be better to throw those extra points away from your critical passives and into something you would use more often like Hamstring, Guard Smasher and Shield Breaker.

 

POST EDIT: Figures that in the middle of making this post you would respond, please refer to the above only in response to the quoted segment.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Chaz, I have said multiple times that your build is sound and that I like it.  And never once did I say one skill is better simply because I like it better.  If I came across that way then I do apologize.  We both agree on Rampage + Dragon Rage + Devour as the backbone of this character.  We both agree on most of the same passives.  There are pros and cons to both War Horn and Ring of Pain.  It comes down to the opportunity cost of what you have to give up to get each one and what you prefer to do with your play style.

 

War Horn gives you CC/survivabilty + access to Flow of Battle to help cool downs but you have to give up the damage boost that RoP provides.

 

Ring of Pain gives you damage boost (+50% straight damage boost to Dragon Rage + 15% weapon damage Dot) but at the cost of stamina/survivabilty.  It is a situational skill and if you do not manage stamina while within the RoP then you will be in trouble. 

 

I, like you, want to help out new players and point out that RoP does have its benefits.  As does Combat Roll.  As does War Horn. 

 

EDIT: And your guide has convinced me to respec my Reaver to drop the upgrade to RoP and the Warrior's Resolve passive so that I can waste a point in War Horn simply to grab the Flow of Battle passive.  And then depending upon team make up I can switch my 4th skill from RoP to War Horn as need be.  I'll be set up for either way without having to respec. For this, I thank you. 

[Satisfy]

Hey Chaz, first got to say excellent analysis and build!

 

I had a question, what do you think about the perk "Ravage" for our main ability "Dragon-Rage"? I currently am using it, mainly for the 50% damage increase to Dragon-Rage.

 

I was thinking of maybe taking out "Crippling Blows" for "Ravage"?

 

Wondering your thoughts on "Ravage".

 

 

Thanks 

[21T09]

Ravage is obvious if your main attack is Dragon Rage.

And Dragon Rage should be your main attack, otherwise you are not playing the right class.

[Chaz Darkbane]

Hey Chaz, first got to say excellent analysis and build!

 

I had a question, what do you think about the perk "Ravage" for our main ability "Dragon-Rage"? I currently am using it, mainly for the 50% damage increase to Dragon-Rage.

 

I was thinking of maybe taking out "Crippling Blows" for "Ravage"?

 

Wondering your thoughts on "Ravage".

 

 

Thanks 

Ravage is an obvious choice, there is no reason not to get it. Not only does it increase the damage on Dragon Rage but it also causes you to be able to spam Devour constantly with crits from Dragon Rage reducing the cooldown by 3 seconds (2 from Ravage, 1 additional from Flow of Battle). I mentioned in my description of Dragon Rage that you should definitely grab this perk, but I will make it a bit more clean so it is easier to notice. If you are confused about why there is 21 skills when you only have 20 levels (19 skill points total), keep in mind you get both Mighty Blow and Devour at level 1 so they do not cost anything.

[Satisfy]

Yeah that's a great point! 21 skills with 20 levels.

 

Thanks for the clarification, make more guides!

[JoshRainf]

this class is savage when perked right! 

 

i went into threatening with lvl 10 reaver and i just ripped through everything, mental! even demon commander went down pretty quick! 

[IxMerc04]

I think this is a really sound guide I actually never tried out dragon rage and after watching a youtube vid I am clearly missing out, so on this time leveling it I will surely take it. I have never done poorly without dragon rage with the reaver however but it looks like I am leaving a ton of damage on the table. I personally am glad the reaver is not a tank, tanks just bore me sadly.

[Chaz Darkbane]

I think this is a really sound guide I actually never tried out dragon rage and after watching a youtube vid I am clearly missing out, so on this time leveling it I will surely take it. I have never done poorly without dragon rage with the reaver however but it looks like I am leaving a ton of damage on the table. I personally am glad the reaver is not a tank, tanks just bore me sadly.

 

You poor soul. You have yet the experience the non stop carnage that is Dragon Rage. You will never go back, trust me.

[Dre G Writer]

WOW, great write up. I had almost the exact set up, but i have ring of pain instead of war hammer, and i didnt even have the crit passives either. I just prestieged my reaver and shes at level 1, so i found this guild just in time.

 

The one issue though is that damn rampage issue that sometimes doesn't give you life when you attack. Or when i get stun locked or something and can't used a skill right away.

[ShoeThatMissedBush]

Excuse me but wtf is deathblow? I've combed all the skills twice. What are you on about? Where is this auto crit passive?

[Dre G Writer]

Excuse me but wtf is deathblow? I've combed all the skills twice. What are you on about? Where is this auto crit passive?

it's literally right above rampage. It has the picture of a kitchen knife.

[Beerfish]

I am literally the worst reaver in all of thedas, being about level 16 now I can compete on the easy level.  I just get ass stomped on threatening.  I seem to have no concept at all as to how the 'devour' and other skills to help devour work.  The odd time, maybe one in twenty I get some kind of health regen from button pushing but I normally go down fast.  By far my worst class.

[Azrus]

Devour isn't really your best choice for healing.  It gives you a little health, but the main benefit of it is that it breaks through blocks, has a short dash effect if locked onto a target, and is an entertaining way to drop mobs with shields.  You want to be managing your cooldown on Rampage to keep yourself up.  Threatening is where Reavers start having to learn to adapt.  You can pretty much rage through routine without a care in the world, but ranged damage is just too high to do that with threatening.  Just gotta learn to be patient.  You generally don't want to have any more aggro than you possibly can.  If you find you're being targeted by too many mobs, pop War Horn to give yourself some breathing room.

 

Anyway, just takes some practice.

[Chaz Darkbane]

I am literally the worst reaver in all of thedas, being about level 16 now I can compete on the easy level.  I just get ass stomped on threatening.  I seem to have no concept at all as to how the 'devour' and other skills to help devour work.  The odd time, maybe one in twenty I get some kind of health regen from button pushing but I normally go down fast.  By far my worst class.

 

Devour isn't really your best choice for healing.  It gives you a little health, but the main benefit of it is that it breaks through blocks, has a short dash effect if locked onto a target, and is an entertaining way to drop mobs with shields.  You want to be managing your cooldown on Rampage to keep yourself up.  Threatening is where Reavers start having to learn to adapt.  You can pretty much rage through routine without a care in the world, but ranged damage is just too high to do that with threatening.  Just gotta learn to be patient.  You generally don't want to have any more aggro than you possibly can.  If you find you're being targeted by too many mobs, pop War Horn to give yourself some breathing room.

 

Anyway, just takes some practice.

Pretty much what Azrus said above. I explained it pretty well in the main post, but Devour is really only good for healing when used as a panic button. As in "Oh no I am about to die and Rampage is cooling down". Devour gives you more health the closer you are to death, but the main purpose for it is to have a guard breaker that is always ready. Getting blocked by Templars or Venatori is the worst thing that can happen to a Reaver on using Rampage. As long as your Rampage is up, you have unlimited healing, and that should be the move you use the most for general health management.

[Beerfish]

Thanks for the tips, I'll look to see how I have her spec'd this eve.  Will probably have to promote when I get to 20 and redo.

[Anzer]

Decided to give Reaver a try after seeing this guide. Just made it to level 8, looking forward to seeing what she can do!

[ShaggyWolf]

I apprecaite the guide, Chaz. I foolishly ignored the presence of War Horn, and have been making things work with Ring of Pain. I haven't personally felt like RoP has been a big issue for me, and I do like the ability, but I can definitely see how War Horn would be more useful in its place. The talent synergy is definitely there, and I can think of a lot of uses for an on-demand AOE panic. I might be too commited to my current ability setup to try this but I certainly will give it a shot when I eventually promote my reaver.

[AussieAuthority]

I just love it how Dragon rage with a Maul makes it aoe and speeds up the swing. Mauls are soooo slow!
Also using an auto attack to close in to the mob can help out a lot.

 

First day playing reaver and i must admit the dps is outrageous compared to the Katari. I even used a lvl 10 sword compared to my 23 purple, just for the utility of immunity to damage for a few seconds, with the level 10 sword i still can get crits of 1k-1.5k.....

 

 

Also i think RoP is fine for the early levels, it can be used great when kiting mobs behind a choke point etc. The only thing i dont like about war horn is that it feels slow. Ive used it in battle with mobs around me and i just got dropped before the fear went off.....

[AussieAuthority]

Just got a 3200 crit with dragon rage on my 15 reaver.... lol

 

But the 200%dmg intake makes this weapon unusable 

[Chaz Darkbane]

 

Just got a 3200 crit with dragon rage on my 15 reaver.... lol

 

But the 200%dmg intake makes this weapon unusable 

Oh wow. Just....ouch. You would literally need to have Rampage up permanently just avoid killing yourself with it, and even then you would need a legionnaire to make sure you won't get focused. I would likely cry if I got a weapon that good, only to have it screwed over by that berserker effect. Maybe if they fix that fact Dragon Rage uses way more than 2% health it would work, right now it seems more like 4 or 5% per hit. But till then, roll with a Legionnaire friend.

 

 

 

 

 

Also i think RoP is fine for the early levels, it can be used great when kiting mobs behind a choke point etc. The only thing i dont like about war horn is that it feels slow. Ive used it in battle with mobs around me and i just got dropped before the fear went off.....

 That is the main risk of it yeah. Normally I can get into a tight cluster of enemies and get War Horn off before the enemies realize "hey, we should attack that guy", but for the most part it is a rather safe skill to use in the middle of a fight. If you have a Legionnaire tanking a group, just use it to your hearts content and enjoy your free criticals.