45 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolenka]

Maybe the door needs to lock behind us.

 

The downside would be losing even more often, and we would probably just move to the next-best camping location. It was nice having the wave objectives in ME3MP force us to move around.

 

I think it is going to get easier as players get more experienced and geared up and someone will be in most matches to carry. Or Bioware may do some rebalancing, though I am guessing the difficulty was tuned during play tests. Then again, the demon commander made it through testing...

[KingTony]

This isn't always true.

If you have classes like Archer, Elementalist, Keeper and Templar, then it works pretty amazing.

But if you're looking at Assassin, Necromancer, Katari and Legionairre, it's probably best to spread out. Just depends on your team composition.

[Myala]

We had to move through 4 zones already. Let them come to us on the 5th

[kww75]

Well various strategies actually work and also kinda depends on the enemies if you are facing, being at the choke point when facing the demon champion can be a bit of a death sentence if you got a lot of melee characters in your team... That demon champion is way too OP, AOE stun/fear and then literally either kills your team or weakens them to the point they can't survive... The other two champions are no where as bad. Half the time I don't blame people for bailing out at the begining of the match when they hear they have to fight demons.

 

The main thing is not to get overwhelmed in the fifth stage, sounds easy enough, but not when oyu have a pug and/or very undergeared players...

 

At the moment everyone is still very lowly geared so things will remain quite tough for a while til everyone starts unlocking/obtaining those more powerful weapons..... The same thing happened with Mass effect 3... Early days everyone was using rnk 1 commmon weapons that hindered people a lot more many of the vets take for granted these days. Heck even using an ultra rare weapon at rnk one surpassed many of the uncommon weapons at rnk 10 (generally) for mass effect. It will take a few months before things even out

 

I know when I picked up my unique lvl 16 double handed weapon, my reaver suddenly turned from a puny mouse to a bloody monster! So just give it a bit more time till people get better items and start understanding their classes and gear more. A lot of teams still don't use combos or synergised attacks

[Hiero_Glyph]

Personally I find this tactic incredibly lame.  Sure it can be effective with the right classes (i.e. Mages) but most players want to do it all of the time even when their classes have no advantage and are cornered when things go bad.  At this point I'm not sure if this strategy is the result of lazy tactics or just bad players.

[Myala]

Its good for mages, archers hunters, and tanks. So its a good strategy for 8 out of the twelve.

[Azrus]

Well various strategies actually work and also kinda depends on the enemies if you are facing, being at the choke point when facing the demon champion can be a bit of a death sentence if you got a lot of melee characters in your team... That demon champion is way too OP, AOE stun/fear and then literally either kills your team or weakens them to the point they can't survive... The other two champions are no where as bad. Half the time I don't blame people for bailing out at the begining of the match when they hear they have to fight demons.

 

Yeah, I hate when people want to sit in that room when it's the Demon Commander.  It almost always ends poorly.  Both that boss and the Templar really benefit from having room to move.  I was in a match last night with an extremely insistent Keeper that wanted to huddle in the entrance to fight the Demon Commander... really wish they'd add push-to-talk so could I hook up my mic for situations like this.  Anyway, the Demon Commander is actually pretty easy if your team understand they need to be moving and can't huddle up next to eachother in anticipation of that next Barrier cast.

 

Anyway, I think the real problem is just a general lack of experience.  People see that the strategy worked for the Venatori boss and just assume it's the grand strategy for dealing with all the bosses.  Give it some time, people will learn.

[Smittyry17]

I win a fair amount of time on 5. (Not bragging since I just help) but I never once waited in that room.

[KingTony]

The key to winning wave favor is either communication or having the Über Doom Beast on your team. If you've got one of those, it can be done. If you've got both, it's a joke.

[Cirvante]

Yeah, I hate when people want to sit in that room when it's the Demon Commander.  It almost always ends poorly.  Both that boss and the Templar really benefit from having room to move.  I was in a match last night with an extremely insistent Keeper that wanted to huddle in the entrance to fight the Demon Commander... really wish they'd add push-to-talk so could I hook up my mic for situations like this.  Anyway, the Demon Commander is actually pretty easy if your team understand they need to be moving and can't huddle up next to eachother in anticipation of that next Barrier cast.

 

True. Also, if you huddle up at the entrance, then the adds will keep swarming in for the entire fight. Yesterday we had a level 1-5 team with three tanks against demons and went somewhere else. Everyone kept killing adds while I led the commander bunny-hopping on a merry goose chase. After a while the adds stopped coming and we had the chance to kill him and then take care of the rest who were derping around at the other side of the map (at the entrance).

[Shadohz]

True. Also, if you huddle up at the entrance, then the adds will keep swarming in for the entire fight. Yesterday we had a level 1-5 team with three tanks against demons and went somewhere else. Everyone kept killing adds while I led the commander bunny-hopping on a merry goose chase. After a while the adds stopped coming and we had the chance to kill him and then take care of the rest who were derping around at the other side of the map (at the entrance).

I agree you. There was a word we had for that... but it totally slips my mind. It's been ages since I've used it.

However I feel this thread needs a pretty picture.

[tbxvividos]

Its good for mages, archers hunters, and tanks. So its a good strategy for 8 out of the twelve.

Apparently you've never grouped with, or played, an alchemist.

9/12

[Myala]

I was actually thinking of including the alchemist in that. But you can play the alchemist in so many different ways. Some people play it similar to the assassin, which would be terrible in a door, and some it like I do play it similar to the hunter, which would work great with a choke point.

[BoogieManFL]

Personally I find this tactic incredibly lame.  Sure it can be effective with the right classes (i.e. Mages) but most players want to do it all of the time even when their classes have no advantage and are cornered when things go bad.  At this point I'm not sure if this strategy is the result of lazy tactics or just bad players.

 

I was in a game where everyone else died and it was just me and one other, both keepers. We ran out and killboxed them at the doorway for several minutes, trading shields and doing our AOE. Eventually, after several close calls we won. If we stood out in the open we would have died quickly and it would have been game over for everyone.

 

 Valid tactic is valid, when it applies to your group and situation. Looking at it any other way is like refusing to hunt with a gun and only use rocks because gun are a lazy tactic for bad hunters.

[coldflame]

We had to move through 4 zones already. Let them come to us on the 5th

Lol...

[coldflame]

Personally I find this tactic incredibly lame.  Sure it can be effective with the right classes (i.e. Mages) but most players want to do it all of the time even when their classes have no advantage and are cornered when things go bad.  At this point I'm not sure if this strategy is the result of lazy tactics or just bad players.

You do know that using a chokepoint has been one of the most effective battle strategies in the 'real world' (well at least on the ancient battlefield with swords and bows) when fighting a force that is stonger than you right? It is only logical for people to use the strategy that will give them the highest chance of success.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I like how calling camping in the spawn door lazy somehow implies that I do not know how to use a choke point or lockdown an area.  Strawman comes to mind.  Anyway, if you need to camp in the spawn area then more power to you but every map has a variety of choke points and using all of them makes me a better player for when the spawn door inevitably closes for good.  Do you really think that all of those players who desk-camped in ME3 were better players because of it?  Valid as a strategy may be, it does not improve the quality of the player when most only use a single tactic.

[Aryvine]

We had to move through 4 zones already. Let them come to us on the 5th

Lol...

Don't they already do that in Zone 5, regardless of whether or not you hole up?

I get that they'll be all clustered together though.

[Shahadem]

 

The downside would be losing even more often, and we would probably just move to the next-best camping location. It was nice having the wave objectives in ME3MP force us to move around.

 

 

See I hated that in the ME3 multiplayer. I liked being able to dig in and defend a position on old Firebase White. I hated when mobs were able to approach and overrun you from every angle.

[Stinja]

The main problem i find with running about in the last map, is there's just too many ranged enemies, and they maps are very open with respect to line of sight.

 

Lots of paths to snag walking about, but you can be shot from all over, with long waddles (i'm not calling it running...) to get to them.  So you end up find somewhere with some cover, and it's inevitably either the entrance room, or possible 1 or 2 other locations elsewhere:  which have more entrances and usually less cover too.

 

Lazy or efficiency? 

[slayergrim]

Who wants to be flanked? Having your enemy come from one direction and into a choke point is actually a smart strategy.

[DarthLinebacker]

See I hated that in the ME3 multiplayer. I liked being able to dig in and defend a position on old Firebase White. I hated when mobs were able to approach and overrun you from every angle.

So you're against Tank and Spank but you wanted to dig in on FBW/G/G? Can't you just go to staples and buy an easy button ?

[Tiamatshade]

Well, no, Darth. In a real fight, no commander or inquisitor in their right minds would try to hold a last stand in an indefensible position. 

 

If your back is to a wall that won't fall down, you have only to fight on one front, ideally. There's no shame in wanting a defensive position that works. There is shame in making it your only strategy day in day out, as was the case with FBW/G/G

 

If you want to fight out in the open, I'm guessing you were a Vanguard of some sort?

[-PenguinFetish-]

Fighting in the open is stupid because of how archers/wraiths will bend you over at will. If this isnt a problem for you then you arent playing the higher difficulties.

Anyone who thinks making a chokepoint is cheap is just a plain elitist and probably the same people who thought running with the pizza was cheating.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Technically running with the pizza was a cheat but Bioware found it so creative that they decided to call it a feature.  You can split hairs all you want but when you are canceling animations it is still breaking the game.  Reload canceling is also a cheat that has since become a standard feature in many games.  Over the history of games many cheats have been allowed by various developers, either to improve the game or because they were unable to fix the problem; this does not make them any less of a cheat (a non-standard method for creating an advantage beyond normal gameplay).  Macros or turbo controllers can often enhance such mechanics since no human can replicate such an effort.  Modem standby switches were also abused back in the day.  All of these are cheats even if they exploit a mechanic that is allowed in the game.  For reference, the only difference between the missile glitch and running with the pizza was that Bioware deemed one to be harmful since it could exploit purchasing packs, while the other was difficult enough to do that a certain amount of skill was required so it was allowed.

 

In this case, camping the spawn door is not a cheat but a tactic that relies on using an area that by most accounts should be sealed off when the battle begins.  Placing the flag should teleport any team members not in the main area to the flag and the spawn doors should automatically close at that time.  Again, players can use whatever strategy they want but at some point camping in the spawn door may very well be considered against the spirit of the game and get fixed.  Finally, no one is saying to fight in the open (please provide a quote if you feel they are) but you can easily perform a rotating defense using chokepoints without having to sit in the spawn area.