183 réponses à ce sujet

[lummoxybez]

Howdy all,
First of all let me begin by saying that I am a massive fan of BG1, BG2, IWD, NWN1 and such other excellent RPGs out there. When I read all the reviews of DA and the opinions of other RPGers who I know and trust I was sure I would love the game. However, I now want to sell my copy of the game and get my money back.
Allow me to explain;

The graphics are beautiful and the cut scenes are incredibly immersing, but that's it. I don't feel like an interactive part of the DA world, more that I am a bystander in a story that is going on around me. Whereas in BG I could wander around wherever I wanted, I feel as though I'm being railroaded down the plotline with no opportunity to find my own way. This is exactly how NWN2 felt, where I ended up hanging out with a bunch of gimpy NPCs I had absolutely no interest in travelling with (especially when I'm trying to RP an insular loner.)

I started the game and made an elven mage character. The system seems to be elegant and I really like the background for the elven race (so different from other RPG standard elves). The magic system seems to be intuitive and simple, although I don't like the fact that I can only 'hot-key' 6 spells at a time. I did get the impression that there was a lot less to the magic system than say in BG or NWN, but that's cool and not a major failing. The start of the game was immersing right up to the point I decided that I couldn't make a decision that I wanted to. So much for 'every choice will have consequences' that the game is sold on. I'm still encountering conversation scripts that will allow me to say every choice on the list with no consequences too. I even reloaded at one point and had my character say something different, only to be given the same response by the NPC - that ain't right.

I can't help but make comparisons with Oblivion, even if that's comparitively old by gaming standards. At least in Oblivion I could wander about wherever I wanted and enjoy the beautifully rendered graphics of the game. When given a mission/quest I could approach it however I wanted and even delay it until I was a bit tougher if necessary. I could also pick up pretty much anything I came across, and even use a lot of it, rather than only being able to interact with the sparkling boxes etc... Even Morrowind provided me with more enjoyment, and I had to play that game on the lowest graphical settings on my old PC. My only complaint about Oblivion was that it had levelled encounters which seems to be the way games are going these days.

Anyhoo, I don't want to start a flame-war or even annoy people here, most of whom are probably from the well-loved forums I have frequented for years. I just wanted to see what other people thought about the game. Every review I've read and every friend I spoke to all rave about this game, but I'm fed up of the railroad plot and lack of choices. Maybe I was spoiled with the 'go anywhere' games like BG and NWN but I was expecting a lot more from DA.

Allow me to say that whoever came up with the setting, background and story is doing an amazing job. I love the world, but I'm struggling to be fully immersed in it like I was in the old 2D RPGs of 10 years ago. Perhaps this isn't the game for me and I should stick to replaying old RPGs again and again.

Any thoughts?

[Monica21]

lummoxybez wrote...
I started the game and made an elven mage character. The system seems to be elegant and I really like the background for the elven race (so different from other RPG standard elves). The magic system seems to be intuitive and simple, although I don't like the fact that I can only 'hot-key' 6 spells at a time. I did get the impression that there was a lot less to the magic system than say in BG or NWN, but that's cool and not a major failing. The start of the game was immersing right up to the point I decided that I couldn't make a decision that I wanted to. So much for 'every choice will have consequences' that the game is sold on. I'm still encountering conversation scripts that will allow me to say every choice on the list with no consequences too. I even reloaded at one point and had my character say something different, only to be given the same response by the NPC - that ain't right.

"Every choice has a consequence" is not the equivalent of "we will offer every choice you can think of." I'm not sure where you are in the game, but if you think there aren't difficult decisions that affect the gameworld, then you haven't played enough.

I can't help but make comparisons with Oblivion, even if that's comparitively old by gaming standards. At least in Oblivion I could wander about wherever I wanted and enjoy the beautifully rendered graphics of the game. When given a mission/quest I could approach it however I wanted and even delay it until I was a bit tougher if necessary. I could also pick up pretty much anything I came across, and even use a lot of it, rather than only being able to interact with the sparkling boxes etc... Even Morrowind provided me with more enjoyment, and I had to play that game on the lowest graphical settings on my old PC. My only complaint about Oblivion was that it had levelled encounters which seems to be the way games are going these days.

You mention wanting choice and consequence and bring up Oblivion? As much as I love the dev team at Bethesda, I don't think they want to make games that have true consequences. No matter how you play Oblivion, the results are the same. There are no different endings, there are no choices to make, and all too often I had a pop up that told me what my character was thinking. That got tiresome and boring very quickly. If you want a game where you can run around and loot, then perhaps this isn't the one for you.

[jfrenchy]

i find things become pretty open once done with ostagar



as for the 6 hotkeys, especially for mages, best to use the radial menu (with the option to only press radial button once to keep it open on xbox360).

[Abriael_CG]

In Oblivion you could wander whenever you wanted in an edxtremely small "empire" that you could cross in half an hour on horseback (totally killing any sense of realism) and made mostly of empty forest and recycled assets (the caves were all the same, the aileyd ruins were all the same, the keeps were all the same, you get the gist of it). On top of it, the price to pay for that "fake" freedom, was that the story sucked, majorly, and the characters were as flat as a frying pan, as per Bethesda standards.

Personally, I prefer a game with an awesome story and characters like DA:O, and that lacks the roaming freedom, but that it's set in a world where every environment is characterized and refined to be unique and great looking, and you can't spit from a border of the realm and hit a soldier on the opposite border.

Also as someone already told you thinking that "every choice will have a consequence" means "every choice is allowed" seem to show some serious understanding problems.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 25 janvier 2010 - 08:32 .

[Elanareon]

All i can say is if you haven't finished the game yet, finish it. Then if you still think it's not enjoyable well maybe you like the oblivion style of playing, not this one.

[0LunarEclipse0]

jfrenchy wrote...

i find things become pretty open once done with ostagar

as for the 6 hotkeys, especially for mages, best to use the radial menu (with the option to only press radial button once to keep it open on xbox360).

I agree with this. The game is very much tactical you must use the pause and play effectivly much like in KOTOR I have never used the hot key system. I pause micro manage and decide each members next course of action. I play on ps3 simply go to the options and set the radial menu to toggle this will make your life easier when utilizing pause and play.

[Althernai]

lummoxybez wrote...

Whereas in BG I could wander around wherever I wanted, I feel as though I'm being railroaded down the plotline with no opportunity to find my own way.

The railroading stops once you're about 3 hours into the game or so. That said, DA:O is very much like BGII which is quite different from BGI. You do get a choice of places to go, but no BGI-style wandering. I think if you liked BGII, you will probably like DA:O once you get past the beginning (which is really more of an introduction to the world than anything else).

[Kesica]

I didnt like the storyline at all,  being forced into the wardens just turned me off. Also I dont like being the savior/hero


Maybe ME 2 will be different but after reading about the game it looks like Shepperd will being saving the galaxy again.  Just wonderful, its  like eating dirty sandwich

Modifié par Kesica, 25 janvier 2010 - 08:54 .

[sakay]

Your choices will have consequences, even if you don't see their impact right away. You will have more freedom of movement after the first few sections (meaning what area of the world to explore next), but DA:O is telling an intricate story. It is more of a "choose your own adventure" in which you select which of a set of bran branches your character will take at critical junctions than a freewheeling opportunity to explore at will. It is not always obvious when one of those branch points is upon you. Some of them are subtle, impacting the flavor of the game; while some are significant. The first few sections were frustrating for me for much the same reason. The story is excellent, though. I wish the levels had been designed with more opportunity for exploration. It does detract from the experience in some of the levels when you find your character on a one way path with only a few little side rooms to explore. I suspect that the debs wanted to make absolutely certain that specific plot turns were triggered so that they didn't have hordes of gamers screaming at them confused about what they missed and where. You have a one way ticket to meet an archdemon with certain places you must pass and things you must accomplish to get there. Your choices lie in how you complete those tasks (do you talk your way through, intimidate, slaughter, sneak, lie, betray, etc) and with whom. It's more KOTOR than Oblivion.

[lummoxybez]

I wasn't trying to say that Oblivion was a better game. It has horrible flaws, some of which have been pointed out above.

In DA, I'm glad that the ability to choose which way you go at some point. I'm currently in Ostragar so I guess I'm not far off from being able to wander wherever I wish. I wasn't under the impression that "every choice will have its consequence" meant that "every choice is allowed" either. Without getting into the realms of spoilers, I just found it frustrating that I was unable to take a particular action which fit in better with how I envisioned my character's idium. Maybe that choice just wasn't available, but that explanation simply adds to the sense of being railroaded.

I will persevere as everyone seems to be saying that the game is awesome. I hope that someone understands why I'm finding the game frustrating though. As I said, I was expecting some freedom like in BG but have so far found DA to be sorely lacking in this respect.

Please don't assume I'm a munchkin who wants to run around and loot, I'm certainly not. It's just that I feel the lack of interaction with all of thiose beautiful objects around me is a bit of a waste - hence the comparison to Oblivion where you can pick up lots of stuff and do things with them (alchemy etc...)

I'll also give the raidal menu a go too. Hopefully that will cover the hot-key problem I was having with spells.
Thanks for the prompt replies to all.

Modifié par lummoxybez, 25 janvier 2010 - 08:55 .

[Viglin]

Kesica wrote...

I didnt like the storyline at all,  being forced into the wardens just turned me off. Also I dont like being the savior/hero

Kinda curious, why did you get the game then...when there was a flood of information about what your main role would be[joinging the Wardens]...and in most games, you are the hero/savior[least, unlike those others, your not the "Chosen One"].

Op-How long did you actually play...nevermind, your not even a fraction into the game...your in what ld say most would call the Tutorial. Get back to us after you can freely choose when to travel[not going to say when as that would be Spoiler Bad].

Modifié par Viglin, 25 janvier 2010 - 08:56 .

[lummoxybez]

Viglin - I've played a few hours of the game and enjoyed the story and world lots. I'm currently in Ostragar, so judging from what a few people have said I'm not far off being able to wander about and choose my own way.



My original pessimism stemmed from NWN2 being a big let down for me. Having people forced into my party and walking down a road with no ability to leave it just felt wrong. I'm hoping I don't keep on experiencing this in DA.

[Monica21]

lummoxybez wrote...

I wasn't trying to say that Oblivion was a better game. It has horrible flaws, some of which have been pointed out above.

In DA, I'm glad that the ability to choose which way you go at some point. I'm currently in Ostragar so I guess I'm not far off from being able to wander wherever I wish. I wasn't under the impression that "every choice will have its consequence" meant that "every choice is allowed" either. Without getting into the realms of spoilers, I just found it frustrating that I was unable to take a particular action which fit in better with how I envisioned my character's idium. Maybe that choice just wasn't available, but that explanation simply adds to the sense of being railroaded.

I will persevere as everyone seems to be saying that the game is awesome. I hope that someone understands why I'm finding the game frustrating though. As I said, I was expecting some freedom like in BG but have so far found DA to be sorely lacking in this respect.

Please don't assume I'm a munchkin who wants to run around and loot, I'm certainly not. It's just that I feel the lack of interaction with all of thiose beautiful objects around me is a bit of a waste - hence the comparison to Oblivion where you can pick up lots of stuff and do things with them (alchemy etc...)

I'll also give the raidal menu a go too. Hopefully that will cover the hot-key problem I was having with spells.
Thanks for the prompt replies to all.

You can do lots of things with the beautiful objects, you just have to have skill points to be able to do them. This is where it's another major departure from TES games. Your character won't be able to do everything and that's why you have companions. If if makes sense for your character to have skills in Herbalism or Poison Making, then do so but don't do it at the risk of borking your build.

And if you're only in Ostagar, you have a long way to go. I think it's safe to say that you have one more "railroaded" stop and then you can move about the map as freely as you'd like.

[Kesica]

Viglin wrote...

Kesica wrote...

I didnt like the storyline at all,  being forced into the wardens just turned me off. Also I dont like being the savior/hero

Kinda curious, why did you get the game then...when there was a flood of information about what your main role would be[joinging the Wardens]...and in most games, you are the hero/savior[least, unlike those others, your not the "Chosen One"].

Op-How long did you actually play...nevermind, your not even a fraction into the game...your in what ld say most would call the Tutorial. Get back to us after you can freely choose when to travel[not going to say when as that would be Spoiler Bad].

If I had known the basic storyline before my purchase than I wouldnt have. I started playing BW games with BG 1 and it seems like its been going down hill slowly since then.

Just once wouldnt it be fun to play a evil character helping something succeed.


I have many many characters but  3  are level 20 +  ,, I've quit them after landsmeet and at the start of redicliff castle after the blight is there.

Modifié par Kesica, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:15 .

[Viglin]

Kesica wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Kesica wrote...

I didnt like the storyline at all,  being forced into the wardens just turned me off. Also I dont like being the savior/hero

Kinda curious, why did you get the game then...when there was a flood of information about what your main role would be[joinging the Wardens]...and in most games, you are the hero/savior[least, unlike those others, your not the "Chosen One"].

Op-How long did you actually play...nevermind, your not even a fraction into the game...your in what ld say most would call the Tutorial. Get back to us after you can freely choose when to travel[not going to say when as that would be Spoiler Bad].

If I had known the basic storyline before my purchase than I wouldnt have. I started playing BW games with BG 1 and it seems like its been going down hill slowly since then.

Just once wouldnt it be fun to play a evil character helping something succeed.

Not to enter Spoiler land, but one of my characters may as well join the Darkspawn considering what he's done:)...but yes, in the end you still end up a Hero......
Maybe in a future Exspansion that may change, depending on the choices you make.

Thou, the basic storyline was flooded in tv interviews, trailers, the offical site, game site previews...l was more dissapointed so much of the story was revealed before release.

Modifié par Viglin, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:14 .

[Monica21]

Kesica wrote...
If I had known the basic storyline before my purchase than I wouldnt have. I started playing BW games with BG 1 and it seems like its been going down hill slowly since then.

Just once wouldnt it be fun to play a evil character helping something succeed.

I have many many characters but  3  are level 20 +  ,, I've quit them after landsmeet and at the start of redicliff castle after the blight is there.

Not sure about you, but the back of my case says "You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legendary order of guardians. With the return of an ancient foe and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all."

I didn't need to buy it to read that.

[Kesica]

Monica21 wrote...

Kesica wrote...
If I had known the basic storyline before my purchase than I wouldnt have. I started playing BW games with BG 1 and it seems like its been going down hill slowly since then.

Just once wouldnt it be fun to play a evil character helping something succeed.

I have many many characters but  3  are level 20 +  ,, I've quit them after landsmeet and at the start of redicliff castle after the blight is there.

Not sure about you, but the back of my case says "You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legendary order of guardians. With the return of an ancient foe and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all."

I didn't need to buy it to read that.

How many Bw games have you played? its almost the same storyline with different graphics. I want something different.

Just look at the storylines for the past games.
Dao- Hero
Mass Effects - sheppard / hero
Nwn- Pc/Hero
Kotor - Hero or Revan could take over the sith again,,, I like this one
JE - Save the waterdragon/hero  or steal her powers,,

Modifié par Kesica, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:38 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

@Kesica



Erm....in almost every game ever made (especially RPGs) you play the hero. I'm not sure why you thought DA wuld be diffrent, especially since it kind of pounds the when GW thing through your skull in every trailer, article, picture and even on the case.

[Abriael_CG]

If you wanty to play something different, what about just buying games from a different developer (Since you think Bioware doesn't cater to the evil overlord wannabes) instead of demanding them to tailor their games around your tastes?



It's pretty obvious that the vast majority of players prefer to play heroes, ergo, a company that wants to be successful makes games that cater more to that kind of crowd.

Since resources aren't infinite, it's pretty nonsensical to demand them to dedicate less resources to developing for the majority, in order to make a vocal minority happy.



As I said in another thread, if you're that interested in playing a kind of character that isn't covered by the gaming market, then try pen and paper, provided that you can find a master that's up to the absolutely boring and unrewarding task of making you play an evil-friendly campaign.

[lummoxybez]

Sloth :

In BG 1 and 2 you weren't necessarily the hero. At the end of BG2 you could become the new God of Murder, and these games were relatively early in the computer RPG time frame.

However, DA does pretty much state everywhere that you are the hero, so I guess the argument is pointless.

Modifié par lummoxybez, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:55 .

[lummoxybez]

I don't think Kesica was demanding that Bioware cater to the evil-overlord players, rather that there should be more choices to take the less-saintly path.

In BG1/2 you could become the God of Murder if you wished, which is obviously the evil route. However, most players would take the good path and not give the jerk responses to every conversation with NPCs.

With DA, although the game box and every piece of advertising or review ever had "HERO" written all over it, I did assume that there would be some more distasteful choices to be made rather than playing a straight goody-two-shoes. Maybe I haven't played enough of the game yet to make an unbiased decision. We'll see.

[BlackCrusader]

I will persevere as everyone seems to be saying that the game is awesome. I hope that someone understands why I'm finding the game frustrating though. As I said, I was expecting some freedom like in BG but have so far found DA to be sorely lacking in this respect.

If you had the PC version, you could hotbar every ability/spell you have simply by expanding the bar on a widescreen monitor.  Looks like you made a mistake by purchasing the console version.

Second, DA:O is EXACTLY like BG1, 2, IWD1, 2, NWN 1, 2 and their expansions.  You have the same over-arching story-line that must be followed to the letter.  You start out with a customized character, find out your world has suddenly been seriously FUBAR'd, and now you must deal with it by fighting through all sorts of baddies, running through sub-plots that will eventually affect the main plot (or not affect it).  You get certain quests depending on your character's background.

I think what you want is more CONTENT, not more freedom.  All of Bioware's games have equal freedoms, with limited choices in how you can pursue each quest and how they turn out.

DA:O isn't as nearly as expansive as the BG games, but its far more expansive than NWN1.  In BG and IWD, your quests would be completely different, depending on the class you choose.

But you must also realize the BG and IWD series of games were almost completely text-based games with some prettily painted 2D graphics and sprites.  Those games were all about the text content (they are like participating in the writing of a novel), while DA:O is more about graphics, mechanics, etc...

I thoroughly enjoyed DA:O far more than I enjoyed NWN 1/2 and the IWD series, but nothing beats the BG series (BG2 being far more fun and immersive than 1).  DA:O provides new game mechanics and story content that truly provide a fun experience, and the combat is just beautiful to watch and partake in.  Really, DA:O is about as close as you'll get to the old text-based/sprite-based IWD/BG days, without giving up all the new technologies.

I'm now half-way through my fourth play-through, just because I want to experience all DA:O has to offer and have multiple starting points for the expansion and future sequels.  If only this game was multi-player like NWN, the next five years of my life would be set.

Also, you'll notice from all the development information that the game is about your character's origin.  The experience varies depending on the origin you choose, and centers on playing a character who is bound to be forced into the situation.  Instead of a custom ENDING in BG, you get a custom BEGINNING in DA:O.

Modifié par BlackCrusader, 25 janvier 2010 - 10:01 .

[CbBurt]

Not to change the topic entirely, but what do people think of the side quests? Certainly, in terms of the current discussion, you have the freedom to come back to them when you like, but I'm more concerned with their focus/theme. Playing through a couple times I didn't notice anything, but I'm playing Mass Effect 1 at the moment and realize that I've skipped a number because they had nothing to do with the current quest. C'mon, I'm in the midst of trying to save the transverse, I don't have time to worry about someone's sister being in the midst of a dangerous job. But I didn't think twice while playing DA:O because I'm used to the fantasy RPG format. In terms of ME1, I was more concerned with getting used to sci-fi/ shooter style RPG, and a different type, though very similar, story line. On second thought, now, I understand why the NPCs (in both games) were getting upset with me as I tried to complete every last sidequest. Personally, though I realize you don't HAVE to do side quests, I wish they were more relevant to the circumstances/story at hand. i.e.; you're trying to save the world!

Thoughts? (*within the restricted space of No Spoilers*)

[Wishpig]

lummoxybez wrote...

Sloth :
In BG 1 and 2 you weren't necessarily the hero. At the end of BG2 you could become the new God of Murder, and these games were relatively early in the computer RPG time frame.
However, DA does pretty much state everywhere that you are the hero, so I guess the argument is pointless.

Well, in DA you have three choices...

A. Run away to another land... which wouldn't be an exciting game.

B. Not fight the darkspawn.... and then die a horrible death

C. Fight the darkspawn

Obviously letter C is the only senseible choice. Ya, I guess your the "hero" but only because NOT being the hero means you die. The darkspawn are mindless killers. Theres no way of allying with them. Theres just FIGHT them.

I don't know what you would rather have.

PS- If your only in Ostagar you have no room to judge... it's still kinda the turtorial. And as far as choices go, you have more dialog choices and paths you can take in any recent RPG I've played. Far more then Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Drakensang, ect...

It's not perfect, it can't offer you EVERY option you want, thats ridiclous. But it's pretty damn close, more so then the vast majority of RPGs.

Modifié par Wishpig, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:58 .

[Kesica]

I noticed my Me 2 has shipped and looks like sheppard will be saving the galaxy again, Look, Bw designs great games but this storyline of being the only person who can save everyone is just getting old.