210 réponses à ce sujet

[ME_Fan]

I agree, it seems like straight male characters have gone from having the most options to the least, but whatever.

[Chari]

Again, you are the one bringin out the word "sexy". Why are you so on the defensive? I am just stating my opinion, there is no need to lash out at me like that. 

See, this is the problem - everytime something like this is brought out, people get assaulted by oversensitive feminists that feel threatened and shout OMG SEXISM without trying to consider things from the other perspective. 

 

Really, please chill. As said in my original post, I am all for gender equality in all media including videogames. I just believe that this is not the case with DA:I. 

Because what folk like you demand is sexist. Treating women and men like dolls who have to look pretty even if it goes against their personality is sexist. Saying that if a character doesn't fit standards way of beauty they shouldn't be, well, look-ist. Mostly sexist in our culture, though 

 

You don't sound like you are. Otherwise you wouldn't treat poor Cass and Josi like that

Also, the only male companion I do find super attractive is Solas. Though I'm not fond of bald guys. But his posture and speech and voice and attitude... what can be "sexier"?

[Emeriick]

I admit I would have liked another romance option for guys, a more floaty and less serious personality when compared to say Cassandra (Who I do enjoy, don't get me wrong, she was my romance on my first playthrough). Something more in line with Merril. As things are right now I see no issue with the way bioware designed the romances and I think people should remember there is a lot more to DA:I then who you get to have a 45 second romance scene with. 

[Rizaun]

I like Cassandra, I'm gonna romance the hell out of her on my next playthrough.

[Enigmatick]

You know you're entirely misresprenting the argument by putting Solas and Cullen there right? They're available if you play a specific race, that's quite important. Anyways I disagree with the notion that this is some 'purposeful female  vengeance romance' schtick, it just seems like an after effect of having a predominately male ratio of party members.

 

Also does everyone have incredibly short memories or what? 2 female romances for men is par for the course for every single Dragon Age game to date.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Where did I mention I wanted bikini armor? Please stop putting words into my mouth in order to support your arguments. I am not doing that, so please refrain from doing it yourself.

Being handsome and being in a bikini armor are two entirely different things - unless you only care about the body rather than a pleasant face, and in this case, I wonder who is the more superficial person.

 

 

I am sorry I bored you. Please note that you are by no means obliged to read my posts, if you find them too long. I appreciate you did tho, and I will keep your feedback in mind for the future.

 

 

As said, talking about straight options female characters get Blackwall, Cullen, Solas, Iron Bull.

 

Male characters get Josephine and Cassandra. 

 

That's 4 vs 2. And the fact that "for a long time straight male characters usually had more options than the rest of us" is not a valid excuse to now invert the tendendy toward something that is EQUALLY WRONG. If you strive for equality, you must ask equality. Equality does not mean "let have females have their vengeance". That's hardly constructive or helpful.

 

Primula, 

 

As a someone who has studied history...What humans often do is they replace one crap with another crap...

 

Equality is something most people, clearly most in this forum at least, and Bioware devs as well, just pay lip service to as opposed to genuinely valuing it...They don't mean it and don't want true equality...

[Solas]

I agree, it seems like straight male characters have gone from having the most options to the least, but whatever.

Straight male characters in DA:I have two options (Cass, Josie).

Gay male characters in DA:I have two options (Iron Bull, Dorian).

Gay female characters in DA:I have two options (Sera, Josie).

Bisexual characters will always have more options because that comes from being bisexual.

 

The only group with more options in this game is straight females. Straight male chars in no way have "the least". The two extra options for straight females are race-gated anyway.

[Myusha123]

Eh. I don't care for the straight male gamer demographic personally. Not anything personal and I hope it doesn't offend. But it might, and sorry. 

There's so many games where Males get to be the main character, get the trailers dedicated to them and star on the box art (Happened with ME, ME 2, ME 3 to an extent, and all Dragon Age Games).

The white Caucasian male in his late twenties-early thirties mounts a crusade to stop evil forces, or just tries to survive. While he also 'gets' the girl. 

Happens in so many games now, and movies I'm glad Bioware's breaking the mold. Be it a niche service, or as popular as it is still today, I'm grateful for the options.

Females were relatively deprived in a lot of ways from entering the gaming market too. Most people developing games are males, so they tend to lack a female perspective at times. Even happened at Bioware, or David Gaider mentioned. 

"Then one of the female writers went, and she brought up an issue. A big issue. It had to do with a sexual situation in the plot, which she explained could easily be interpreted as a form of rape."

Add the occasional lack of female characters in game so females cannot 'resonate' or relate to the main character, add that video games were for a long time considered a manly thing, how a majority of female characters tend to be sexualized (Lara Croft was a poster child of this) or used to.

Even if males do have a larger population in video games, this is Bioware's move to invite more female gamers into the fold. So whether this game is a political statement from Bioware, or just a damn game, I think it was a relative success. 

Big rant aside; Cassandra is cute as hell. When she gushes over Varric's novels I laughed so hard. 

[Solas]

I admit I would have liked another romance option for guys, a more floaty and less serious personality when compared to say Cassandra (Who I do enjoy, don't get me wrong, she was my romance on my first playthrough). Something more in line with Merril. As things are right now I see no issue with the way bioware designed the romances and I think people should remember there is a lot more to DA:I then who you get to have a 45 second romance scene with. 

Josie?

[AlanC9]

Where did I say they had a common element? It's not like you can compare Merril to Morrigan or Miranda of course - one is "cute", relatively shy and sweet. The others are more "femme-fatale" style, which is also a stereotypical female archetipe since noir moves were created. Like Cullen is the typical blonde, well-fit leader or Fenris the emo / white haired / tormented guy. They're all stereotypes. Point is, there is none of those "female stereotypes" in DA:I. That's all.

So when you said "typical characteristics of female characters" you meant something more along the lines of "typical characteristics of one of the existing stereotypes for female characters"? The former implies that "female character" is a singular thing, since that's what has the characteristics. That's what misled me.
 
OK. But then your argument reduces to Bio refusing to use stereotypes for the hetero female LIs. Even assuming that would be a bad thing, I can think of a couple of tropes Josie would fit into nicely. Cassie too. Actually, I'm not sure how different Cassie is from Jaheira.

[Draining Dragon]

Dear OP. You do realize that you're complaining about having the same number of options as gay male characters, lesbian characters and dwarf and qunari straight female characters? It's up to you whether you like your options or not. And that's why so many of us find your complaints to be silly. Because for a long, long time straight male characters usually had more options than the rest of us. And now that straight female elf and human characters have one or two extra romance options, some people act as if it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them.
 
So the romance options are unfair and not in your favor for once? Deal with it!

Wouldn't proportional representation make more sense?

[Enigmatick]

It seems like every time someone complains about Cassandra being too 'rough' or what have you, they completely devalue and disregard Josephine as a NPC because she doesn't go into the field with you. Despite her having the same amount of romance content  and overall being more receptive to your advances.

[daveliam]

Actually, I'm not sure how different Cassie is from Jaheira.

She has short hair. I really think that this is a huge part of it. If Cass had Miranda's haircut, I suspect that the number of threads like this would reduce by a significant amount. Seriously.

[Taleroth]

Wouldn't proportional representation make more sense?

In the way that proportional character creation makes sense. You have a 90% chance of rolling a serf.

[Draining Dragon]

In the way that proportional character creation makes sense. You have a 90% chance of rolling a serf.

I mean for NPCs, not the player.

[KaiserShep]

She has short hair. I really think that this is a huge part of it. If Cass had Miranda's haircut, I suspect that the number of threads like this would reduce by a significant amount. Seriously.

 

This is my suspicion as well. While I'm hesitant to use YouTube as any kind of example for anything ever, considering the level of stupidity that ferments there, it's a complaint I've seen a lot regarding her character, with her jawline coming in a close second.

[Emeriick]

Josie?

 

Haven't romanced her yet and perhaps she is what I'm looking for, I'll find out eventually on a future play through. 

[daveliam]

Wouldn't proportional representation make more sense?

This actually is close to proportional representation. It's not pefect but it's not terribly skewed either.

There are five major female NPCs. Three of them are romanceable. 60%.

There are seven major male NPCs. Five of them are romanceable. 71%.

It's not nearly as disproportionate as people are trying to make it seem.

[Draining Dragon]

I actually like Cass. She's tough on the outside, but a romantic at heart.

[Enigmatick]

To be fair, Cortez and Traynor were frequently considered "lesser" for this very reason.  (Not that I am in agreement with the general sentiment of this thread).

Cortez and Traynor have less romance content (and content) in general, devs never claimed them to be equals in that respect to party members as they did with DA:I npcs.

[Draining Dragon]

This actually is close to proportional representation. It's not pefect but it's not terribly skewed either.
There are five major female NPCs. Three of them are romanceable. 60%.
There are seven major male NPCs. Five of them are romanceable. 71%.
It's not nearly as disproportionate as people are trying to make it seem.

Oh, I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was referring to sexuality. My bad if that wasn't what you were talking about.

[KaiserShep]

I actually like Cass. She's tough on the outside, but a romantic at heart.

Cassandra grew on me quite a bit in the game. Among the "core" group that I'd consider closest to my Inquisitor, Cassandra would be right there in the middle, with Solas and Dorian (who is probably my favorite mage to bring along now) coming in next. There's Varric, but it just feels wrong to be as buddy-buddy with him, since he was already Hawke's protege.

[azarhal]

We have Cassandra, who is probably more manly in terms of attitude and character than other male companion in the game (with the exception of Blackwall, maybe);

 

Cassandra fangirling over smutty literature is manly? 

[samuelkaine]

^ This is why people don't take you guys seriously.

You want equality so long as "equality" means in your favor and not actually equal. You realize the irony, right? OP is asking for equality not superiority whereas your idiotic comment just set the LGBT community back 20 years.

Smooth move.

/rolleyes

 

Pretty sure the LGBT movement isn't set back by what people say on the internet, but ok darling, I'll play.

 

For almost the entirety of the Western literary canon, LGBT readers have had, at best, veiled references, nods and winks, which almost inevitable lead to a tragic ending for those involved. By contrast the foundation stone of much of said canon is the hero getting the girl (along with whatever other treasures and chattel he picks up on the way.)

 

This is still how the vast majority of games run today. Even if Bioware gave you nine lesbian options and nothing else, it would be a drop in the ocean of the medium as a whole. So yes, people are slightly ticked off when some demand that one of the few games to give female protagonists and LGBT protagonists any options isn't catering enough to heterosexual male protagonists, who get catered to exclusively by thousands of other titles. They are even more ticked off when this complaint goes on despite the fact that heterosexual male protagonists get precisely the same number of options they got in other games. I have yet to hear a single person complain that the gay male or lesbian female protagonists didn't get the same number of options. Heck, there hasn't even been much grumbling about heterosexual female dwarf and qunari protagonists getting fewer options than elven and human ones. 

 

So no, the position of heterosexual male protagonists is not comparable to that of the other groups, because for the other groups Bioware is almost the only company that gives them any recognition.

 

I want to point out the distinction between protagonists and gamers themselves. Straight male gamers have exactly the same number of options as anyone else. There are plenty of men on here who play female characters, some on the perfectly reasonable basis that if they have to stare at a protagonists arse for 100 hrs they'd prefer it to be a woman's. I'm a gay male gamer, but my canonical Warden romanced Morrigan and married Anora. See where the story takes you. 

 

Lastly I just want to ask those who keep bringing this up to stop and ask themselves a simple question. If it had been the heterosexual male protagonist who had been given extra romance options, would you be on here decrying it, or would you be defending it on the basis that, well, most gamers are probably straight men so it makes sense to cater for them? If it's the latter, then you really need to stop using words like "equality".