210 réponses à ce sujet

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Like a standard female fashion model with strong features and high cheekbones. The only thing she's missing is the pouty lips.
 
Personalitywise, she is hard on the outside, but soft on the inside. Just like Morrigan, Miranda, Jaheira, Isabela, etc.
 
If I were you, I would complain that females and homosexuals get all the quirky love interests. Cass and Josie are a little boring, to be honest.

There is a very real difference between that model and Cassandra.

I can't take your comments seriously given the subject of your avatar and sig.

That said all I really wanted was for the OP to admit that he's co-opting "gender equality" as a shield for what he really feels. I don't think he's wrong for feeling that way like some of you do but I hate the dishonesty. Most people here bullshits when it serves them and this place practically breeds a persecution complex. So, I'm out. This forum has gotten to the point where most posts disgust me and I can find other ways to interact with the devs.

You should never take anything seriously, life is far less depressing that way, but I am at least half serious about Cass looking like a dude.

[Ridwan]

 

I love this!  "A virtual angry mob!"  I love persecution complexes.

How are the #GamerGate burner Twitter accounts going?

 

 

Josephine doesn't look like a woman? 

 

 

Not adressing the issue, resorting to ad hominem. Typical.

[Primula Nightfall]

Pal, he literally just said Cassandra wasn't attractive because she didn't have, quote, "perfect white skin". I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

 

So, I "literally said Cassandra is not attractive because she does not have white skin". Really. Here's what I "literally" said:

 

"Interesting how your warrior maid is basically a real "maid" with an armor. Perfect curly hair and perfect white skin. Yeah. That's definitely Cass right there."

 

 

Can you please specify where i said that Cass is not "attractive" because of "not white skin"?

Thanks.

 

Alternatively, please check your dictionary for the word "literally".

[AresKeith]

There is a very real difference between that model and Cassandra.

 

Not really except Cassandra has a scar

 

Try again

[Enigmatick]

Of course not. It was exactly my point, wasn't it? "If Sera was available and more attractive". Yes. That's the whole point I am making. Too bad that we are not debating with "IFs". 

So yeah, "If the things I don't like were not in this game, I would not be whining". What a surprise.

 

 

You seemed to miss my point, my point was that you were co-opting something practically unrelated to your real gripe and misrepresenting what was actually in the game.

 

Have fun metaphorically yelling at air here though.

[BabyFratelli]

The only thing vaguely right about the OP is that everyone options should be equal. In an ideal world, they would have been. Where you lose everyone is when you (and others) start bashing Cass and Josie for not being 'feminine' or 'sexy' enough, or calling Sera a goblin face. I mean seriously, just how childish can you be?

 

The fact of the matter is this: Straight men, this time, did not get the most options. Neither did, once again, LGBT+ people. Straight women benefitted from the extra time Bioware was given to work on the game, and honestly, while they're not the most under privileged group if anyone was going to benefit from the extra time given I'm glad it was a group who have historically been given less content.

 

Bioware have stated time and time again that at the end of the day their priority with romances was that everyone had a choice of characters. If you do not like your choices, that is your own problem. Guess what? I'm a straight girl and I have zero desires to romance any of my options. That doesn't mean they're ugly, or unworthy, or that I'm ungrateful for being given such wonderful choices. They're fantastic characters in their own right. They're just not my type romantically, luckily, I value characters for more than just romantic opportunity. It's okay to be a bit disappointed if none of your options suit your needs but blaming people who support social justice or saying Bioware has some kind of agenda is becoming very droll, and honestly, a display of how entitled and misguided (and occasionally ignorant) the gaming community can be.

 

/end rant. my feathers are ruffled so I will not even add a smiley face to this post. No smilies for anyone. 

[Myusha123]

You boiled that down wrong what this thread is about is that everyone bar hetro males has an attractive romancable option. What is wrong with wanting to be included?

The thread derailed into whether Cassandra and Josephine were attractive and thus 'valid' romance options. Because look at the options Gay Males get. Iron Bull and Dorian. 2 options, just like Hetero Males. 
'Being left out'. Please. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Not really except Cassandra has a scar
 
Try again

Yes there is

Try again.

lol if it was only the scar that made her look like a guy.

[Vormaerin]

Excuse me, what would you like me to say? That Cassandra embodies all that is feminine? 

 

Because sorry, I can't - and I don't think anyone can. As I said, she has been built from ground up to be an "iron lady", which is PERFECTLY FINE, as I am not degrading or devaluing her character at all - but I can hardly say her entire character is feminine.

 

Blame hundreds of years of patriarchy if that's what you want to do - apparently men were programmed NOT to find feminine a character like Cassandra. Sorry.

No, apparently *you* are programmed not to find her feminine.   I do and so do plenty of other men.

[mikeymoonshine]

Generally these discussions cause me to like all of you less than I usually do but lets try again for the hell of it. 

 

Ok, so I am going to state some objective facts. Cassandra does not look like a man, Cassandra does have some traits (both physical and personal) that are generally associated with masculinity. 

[Nefla]

Not really except Cassandra has a scar

 

Try again

It's that she has short hair, and short hair apparently equals "man" to these people.  Probably the fact that she doesn't wear skimpy, sexed up clothing like Morrigan, Isabella, Samara, and Miranda too.

[Vilegrim]

I am most likely going to get flamed for this thread, but I feel the need to share my opinion in order to confront my point of view with you guys.

 

It has been clear that BioWare titles, over the years, have been progressively promoting gender equality and sexual freedom.

 

We went from ME1 where you only had three choices (two straitght, one bisexual with Liara clearly being female-looking, thus definitely geared towards fanservice for male gamers), to ME2 where, again, all bisexual options were basically females, to ME3 where things went a bit more liberal.

 

The DA franchise has been more "gender-equal" since the start tho, with DA2 being absolutely bonkers with almost every companion being bisexual, with only one being available to female characters only.

With DA:I, people in Thedas keeps upholding the sexual identity confusion that characterizes the series' world. 

 

Now, this is all well and good - we are all aware about how....vocal some gamers are, especially female ones (or feminist ones), and I am definitely not against gender equality by any means. However, it feels to me that with DA things are starting to seriously sound way too forced.

 

What are the options for a male, straight Inquisitor? 

 

We have Cassandra, who is probably more manly in terms of attitude and character than other male companion in the game (with the exception of Blackwall, maybe); Cassandra represents the idea that women can be as strong, hard, and badass as men. Even her appearence is definitely manly and "militarised": short, hair, scars, strong voice, et cetera.

 

Then we have Josephine. She has definitely a more "kinder" character stereotype than Cassandra, but she is bisexual so even female characters can date her anyway (and she's not exactly "good looking" by average videogame standards).

 

Then...no one else. 

I'd like to point out how this game lacks a typical "female" romanceable companion, where by "female" i mean "possessing the typical characteristics of female characters" (think Merrill, Leliana, Morrigan, or Miranda if we want to go with ME). Sure, there is Josephine, but she is not even an actual companion. Hell, why leaving out Leliana as an option, seriously?

Seems to me that BioWare is kinda "forcing" male characters / players to choose (if they want, of course) a necessary "out of the box" approach, since as said there is no "stereotypical" female companion.

 

Now, please put down those pitchforks and torches I know you grabbed after reading my last paragraph and keep reading - because my point is, this issue does not apply to female characters / gamers. For them, there is:

Blackwall, typical "brooding" male hero, actually the "manlier" companion in the whole game (by "manly" i mean "representing the stereotypical male virtues and characteristics). He is straight.

 

Cullen, again a very typical "leader" hero, very handsome and very charismatic. Again, still straight.

 

Solas, for whoever prefers the underdog, introvert characters. And again, he is straight.

 

All other options are either homosexual or bisexual.

 

Special mentions go to Sera, who would have been the obvious fanservice option for males who decided to play a female Inquisitor...and for some reason BioWare decided to model her using a goblin as reference ending up resembling more a crack addict than an actual elf. 

On the other hand, for females who decided to play a male Inquisitor, who do we have? Dorian, who I managed to identify as homosexual literally the first time he appeared on screen while also being rather handsome, and Iron Bull, bisexual, which is yet again the stereotypical "yes, I am big and  strong and I maul dragons, but inside I am all sweet and fluffy".

 

 

In short, I believe that BioWare is dangerously inverting the trend we've been having in videogames so far - by putting more fanservice for female gamers rather than male gamers, not even striving for "equality" (which, again, I support), but catering more toward the female playerbase which is, at this point in time, most likely still in lower numbers but definitely more vocal.

 

It's also worth to mention the transexual debate with Krem, which I would have found more suited for a social commentary rather than a RPG about demons and dragons - again, it felt really forced.

 

As a side note, I would add that, statistically, it's probable that the majority of players are straight. For equality purposes, BioWare should have included MORE options for straight gamers (both male and female) and less bisexuals...but I understand that this saves a lot of developing time, so I can partly understand.

 

Ok, if you have finished with those ropes, feel free to throw me the torches and set me on fire. Please be quick :/

 

 

Krem I thought was cool, it was just a thing you could find out and then move on.  Well done that writing team.  Also Cass is hot, I thought I would hate her but nope, definitely doing a romance Cass play through.

[Eve]

I'm just laughing at this thread.

 

C'mon the real complain you guys have is that the female LI options aren't 'beautiful' enough for you, they're not 'girly' (Tho I wonder what josie is if not 'girly')

too manly because she, what? Has short hair? Strong voice? 

 

Why do I believe that you use the word equality just to have something to backup your statement, because the female LI options are not how you want them to be?

Also using arguments like 'typical handsome male stereotype' is just wrong, so wrong. In the end you're saying that every female who plays this games actually likes Cullen's appearance? Or Blackwalls? No that's not the case. Just because some female fans are more vocal about their likes (at least when it comes to biowares games) doesn't mean that the silent ones agree.

 

In my case no one is my type, except for solas (at least a little bit). But do you see me complaining about Blackwall being way to old? Or Iron Bull being to muscular? Nah. It's about taste, there are plenty of straight guys who actually like cass how she is, or josie. Just because a few straight males don't have their image of 'beauty' in this game, doesn't mean that Bioware is trying to forget about this player base. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

No, apparently *you* are programmed not to find her feminine.   I do and so do plenty of other men.

Very few do, but whatever your into.

It's that she has short hair, and short hair apparently equals "man" to these people. Probably the fact that she doesn't wear skimpy, sexed up clothing like Morrigan, Isabella, Samara, and Miranda too.

Nope its not the short hair.

[Myusha123]

So, I "literally said Cassandra is not attractive because she does not have white skin". Really. Here's what I "literally" said:

 

"Interesting how your warrior maid is basically a real "maid" with an armor. Perfect curly hair and perfect white skin. Yeah. That's definitely Cass right there."

 

 

Can you please specify where i said that Cass is not "attractive" because of "not white skin"?

Thanks.

 

Alternatively, please check your dictionary for the word "literally".

Why did you have to mention perfect white skin? 

People are going to assume skin color now matters to you, or is relevant to your interests. That and your 'definition' of perfect, even if exaggerated, won't be understood.  Forgive my fallacy but...

Either you made a very terrible mistake that will bite your ass in this thread, or you're terribly ignorant. Maybe both. 

[Chernaya]

You consider Cass more stereo-typically 'manly' than Iron Bull? XD I dunno, that might be a stretch. But seriously, Cassandra is actually pretty feminine. Being feminine has little to do with having scars, short hair or fighting. If that's the definition of manly, it's pretty shallow. Shes's a woman who is very determined, and keeps her emotions to herself because she wants to get the job done. Being strong and motivated are not qualities reserved for men. That's not fair.

 

You say Josie doesn't count because she's an advisor, but then you ask why Leliana can't be romancable? You know she's an advisor too, right? And Leliana isn't an option because she doesn't want to be. Her character development is a great part of this game and I hope you can enjoy it without being too upset about not being able to sleep with her.

[samuelkaine]

 

I am not even going to answer to this. Now I am also labeled as racist. Seriously, this is stupid.

 

 

I can try to summarize with this: her attitude, her behavior, her looks (which are NEEDED to be like that because of the role she covers in the game), her way of speech, are all typically associated with male characters because this is how it's been since the dawn of time.

 

If you will say that someone is unattractive because of a lack of "perfect white skin" then it's hardly unfair to assume you downloaded a mod that gave that attribute to other characters. Your words pal.

 

And no, that women can't be armoured is not a view that goes back to "the dawn of time". As I pointed out, and you ignored, the warrior woman is ancient as a trope. 

 

 

And if we want to get properly into the gender-bending, we really shouldn't have straight male mages, because in Germanic mythos that Dragon Age draws upon magic is women's domain. Strangely enough that gets overlooked.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

You consider Cass more stereo-typically 'manly' than Iron Bull? XD I dunno, that might be a stretch. But seriously, Cassandra is actually pretty feminine. Being feminine has little to do with having scars, short hair or fighting. If that's the definition of manly, it's pretty shallow. Shes's a woman who is very determined, and keeps her emotions to herself because she wants to get the job done. Being strong and motivated are not qualities reserved for men. That's not fair.

You say Josie doesn't count because she's an advisor, but then you ask why Leliana can't be romancable? You know she's an advisor too, right? And Leliana isn't an option because she doesn't want to be. Her character development is a great part of this game and I hope you can enjoy it without being too upset about not being able to sleep with her.

She looks more manly. Her personality isn't.

[Primula Nightfall]

bashing Cass and Josie for not being 'feminine' or 'sexy' enough, or calling Sera a goblin face. I mean seriously, just how childish can you be?

 

uckily, I value characters for more than just romantic opportunity. It's okay to be a bit disappointed if none of your options suit your needs but blaming people who support social justice or saying Bioware has some kind of agenda is becoming very droll, and honestly, a display of how entitled and misguided (and occasionally ignorant) the gaming community can be.

 

/end rant. my feathers are ruffled so I will not even add a smiley face to this post. No smilies for anyone. 

 

Yeah, alright. I am childish for stating that Sera is ugly. All right. She is beautiful, then. Now I am suddely a child no more.

Also, I did not "bash" at anything. I just stated my opinions. I never said that those characters suck as a whole. I really like both Cass and Josephine. I liked Sera at the start but she's becoming a bit too annoying lately. 

My opinions on their appearance and / or femininity was not at all related to their quality as character as a whole.

 

Thanks for the insults tho, I see that as usual they are needed to fortify arguments. A skill I never learned, sadly.

[Myusha123]

We should all play the cutscenes while blind, and given help making dialogue choices. That way we can fall in love with the characters and writing instead of pre-rendered graphic models. That don't exist. 

But then we'd miss all the wonderful pretty art. Darn. 

[Medhia_Nox]

My turn to get flamed!

I think Cassandra looks so manly because modern straight males are such princesses.

[Primula Nightfall]

Why did you have to mention perfect white skin? 

People are going to assume skin color now matters to you, or is relevant to your interests. That and your 'definition' of perfect, even if exaggerated, won't be understood.  Forgive my fallacy but...

Either you made a very terrible mistake that will bite your ass in this thread, or you've terribly ignorant. Maybe both. 

 

Aaand again with insults. Seriously, is this the only way to debate? If you believe I am ignorant then you'd better stop trying to reason with me, as it would be a lost cause.

 

But I wil answer your question - I mentioned "perfect white skin" and "long curly hair" because any woman (or man) covering that role would hardly manage to have either of them. In fact, it's more likely you will be sun-tanned, scarred, with short practical hair like Cass.

 

Is that clearer, now?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

My turn to get flamed!

I think Cassandra looks so manly because modern straight males are such princesses.

lol

Although there is a little truth in that.

[budzai]

*crying*

you know LGBT people are "underrepresented" cuz they are a minority right? We have more % of LGBT character in now days media **** (films, book, video games, tv) than their % of population... and still it is not enough...

[Ridwan]

One is a former professional fighter.

 

The other is a model (according to this forum)

 

 

Guess which one almost every man would go for.

 

Men love women who look beautiful and feminine, it's not exactly rocket science.