435 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Based upon all that we've seen and know, I'm suspicious that lyrium contains the souls of the dwarves who are "returned to the stone". It just makes sense. It was my immediate thought when Dagna first commented upon lyrium seeming to be alive. Later, of course, that bit is stated more directly. The notes sprinkled throughout he game just built upon that suspicion. Who knows how and why their connection to the Fade was cut, assuming they used to have such? Maybe it coincides with the lost immortality of the elves. We'll see, I guess.

 

A lot of what we see in Origins and Awakening really lends credibility to this idea, especially when we go to Kal'Hirol and see all of those dwarven ghosts lingering in the abandoned thaig.

[Heimdall]

A lot of what we see in Origins and Awakening really lends credibility to this idea, especially when we go to Kal'Hirol and see all of those dwarven ghosts lingering in the abandoned thaig.

We see similar things at Warden's Peak, or at the Temple of sacred Ashes after the Breach. Those things are more an echo of events rather than actual ghosts.

[DarkSpiral]

 

You're talking about Ghilan'nain.

 

Do you mean the name I couldn't remember?

Because if you're responding to the second half of what you quoted, I'm really not talking about Ghilan'nain.  I was postulating that Fen'Harel was the original "god."

[Alejandrawrr]

Out of curiosity, has anyone worked out whom in the elven pantheon Urthemiel corresponds to, assuming you subscribe to the heavily implied (and imo correct) theory that Elven Gods=Old Gods? All I know off the top of my head is that a codex acquired on completion of an astrarium says Lusacan(OG of night/darkness) is believed to be Falon'Din(EG of burials, I think?)

[Patchwork]

My working theory about dwarves is that they don't react well to a world without a Veil.  Arlathan era dwarves were forced to live underground because lyrium acts as a natural barrier, they literally needed stone to live. Then the Veil goes up and while they can now live on the surface primitive fear is tough to ignore. 

 

I get annoyed with Solas' disapproval of the Grey Wardens -not the demon stuff obviously but of the Wardens in general- it's probably because my many HOFs are my babies and I'm protective but if he knows something that can help with the Blight then he needs to spit it out. That he's responsible for Cory is one thing but thousands die during a Blight, parts of the world never recover and if he's just boo booing because the monster leading them gets it's head chopped off then he can just shut up. Babies. Mine. 

 

If all Archdemons are elven gods then it could be all of them: Creators and the Forgotten Ones and if so then the world will be ruined long before Darkspawn run out of Archdemons to corrupt.  

[Swiftgold]

Out of curiosity, has anyone worked out whom in the elven pantheon Urthemiel corresponds to, assuming you subscribe to the heavily implied (and imo correct) theory that Elven Gods=Old Gods? All I know off the top of my head is that a codex acquired on completion of an astrarium says Lusacan(OG of night/darkness) is believed to be Falon'Din(EG of burials, I think?)

Ahh, the astrariums! I had noticed they did mention in many of them that there was a elven association. And that it said the one of the wolf was curious because wolves were not associated with Tevinter and that it was associated with Fen'Harel (of course this was the last one I found so it felt like an especial 'aha' in some way)...

[Nashina]

So do you think Sandal in DA 2 was mentioning Solas when he made his prophecy? and not in fact corypheus.

Also when Varric is talking to The Iron Bull about villains in his stories he mentions most villains don't see themselves as villains. Perhaps this is a subtle reference to Solas being a villain but not realising he is.

[Spirited Treasure]

I am just not buying the whole Flemeth = Elven goddess thing. Lol. Just no. Morrigan says to Leliana that her mother would copulate with men and then kill them afterwards and that Morrigan was expected to do that as well.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=4nDfk58gpHs

Flemeth was an abomination. Posessed by a demon..

[BloodyTalon]

I am just not buying the whole Flemeth = Elven goddess thing. Lol. Just no. Morrigan says to Leliana that her mother would copulate with men and then kill them afterwards and that Morrigan was expected to do that as well.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=4nDfk58gpHs

Flemeth was an abomination. Posessed by a demon..

Yeah then in Witch Hunt  Morrigan retracts everything she said before basically about the possibilties of what her mother is....that she is more basically and we somewhat found out what she is finally.

[Spirited Treasure]

Yeah then in Witch Hunt  Morrigan retracts everything she said before basically about the possibilties of what her mother is....that she is more basically and we somewhat found out what she is finally.

In witch hunt she says Flemeth is not truly even human.

[sunnydxmen]

flemeth puts pieces of herself in amulets meaning she be back again in younger body this was done so we wont know its flemeth until its too late in be like wow i cant believe that.

[Kittn]

There was an error with Solas' dialogue at the point where you have to decide whether to drink from the Well. He's supposed to beg you not to drink from it yourself but he doesn't, it's missing. Patrick Weekes confirmed that it's only flavor that's missing though, no plot-important lines.

 

Really? This exchange left me totally bewildered in my first playthrough as a human who had gained his respect. I thought to try the other option this time around, but because that mysterious dialogue isn't in there, and its still going to sound like Solas is asking me to do it instead, and I don't see how my hopelessly-in-love-with-him Lavellan could realistically do anything else. Flavor is important.

 

I wonder if they will ever patch it in. I wonder if it's actually in the files somewhere and just wasn't triggered correctly, or if it was a total oversight and never even recorded. Doom on it. And doom on his bugged out personal quest too while I'm at it.

 

More on topic: I'll happily back your theory way back on post #3. Thank you for sharing it, and putting so many of the pieces together. Such feels I have for this elf after beating the game. It's nice to have a solid theory to play with in my head.

 

As for the post credit scene: I think Flemeth simply gave the spirit of Mythal plus one to Solas. Maybe in the instant that he knew her intent, he saw it as the punishment he thought he deserved, and became a willing vessel. Maybe the reason Flemeth apologized was because she knew his shoulders were already bowed with the weight of the mistakes he had made and centuries of regret, and now she's going to give him all of Mythal's and the unknown one as well. Meanwhile, she can finally die, or pass out or whatever without their probably overbearing presence, and go back to being whatever she is without them.

 

I am convinced that Solas did nothing malicious there, and he walked away with so much more regret, angst and sorrow to bear from the new tenants in his immortal body.

 

One tiny little thing I do wonder about the post campaign: Since Cole seems to broadcast the hurts he hears in real time, and they always seem to be from someone nearby, does that mean Solas was present at Skyhold when we overheard it?

[samuelkaine]

My potted history ideas.

 

Fen'Harel locks the Elven Gods away in the Golden/Black City with the help of the elves themselves who have come to see them as tyrants.

 

The Elven civilisation wanes without their great magical power.

 

Humans arrive on the continent. The Elven Gods begin to speak to the humans in their dreams, telling them secrets, giving them power, and urging them to attack their rebellious subjects. This is done both for vengeance and for longer term plans. They are re-interpreted, owing to the shifting nature of the Fade, into the Old Gods.

 

The Tevinters cast down Arlathan, taking the elves as slaves.

 

The Old Gods now convince the magisters to try and break them out of their prison, using huge amounts of blood sacrifice and lyrium.

 

Each of the magisters, as Cory does in DA:I, has a dragon at their command.

 

The magisters succeed, the souls of the Old Gods are transmitted to their dragons, but the blight is also created.

[DarkSpiral]

I am just not buying the whole Flemeth = Elven goddess thing. Lol. Just no. Morrigan says to Leliana that her mother would copulate with men and then kill them afterwards and that Morrigan was expected to do that as well.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=4nDfk58gpHs

Flemeth was an abomination. Posessed by a demon..

 

This isn't a "thing" or a theory.  Flemeth proves pretty conclusively that the spirit of Mythal is being carried within her. 

[Mahumia]

I was under the impression that Flemeth sends a part of her essence(s) through the Eluvian (probably for safekeeping) and gives the rest to Solas. The scene did not seem to implement force, at least not for me. 

 

The scene with Cole back in Skyhold after the ending, with 'I must walk this path alone', gave me the feeling that the two first had tried other means to gain a common goal, but failed. Solas does not want to be alone, but with the orb broken, he cannot gain back his former power on his own. Flemythal knows this, and knows that he does not actually want that, but has to, for achieving that goal. 

[Toasted Llama]

I was under the impression that Flemeth sends a part of her essence(s) through the Eluvian (probably for safekeeping) and gives the rest to Solas. The scene did not seem to implement force, at least not for me.

Oh my god how did I forget that Flemeth can just cut herself in half and sent one away!! Gaaahh! This is the very FIRST thing that is revealed in DA2 >.<

Also explains why she's standing in front of the Eluvian even if the Warden didn't do the OGB ritual in Origins.

I'm getting the feeling she's gonna be back in DA4. Again.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

The interesting part is their conversation. They are both "sorry", which means they both knew what had to be done. The more interesting question to me is, what made them so desperate.
 

Not at all.

 

Part of the brilliance of that short last sequence is that both of the "I am sorry" can be understood in multiple ways, of which your interpretation is just one.

 

For instance, Solas' first "sorry" could be "I am sorry for what I am about to do to you (stealing essence of an unsuspecting Flemeth)", or it could be "I am sorry about what happened", or it could be "I am sorry for this whole mess, let's continue with our fallback plan that neither of us really wanted", to take just three examples.

 

Flemeth's "sorry" in response could be "I am sorry for what I am about to do to you (possession without agreement against an unsuspecting Solas)", or it could be "I am also sorry about what happened" (and any number of permutations based on this), or "I am sorry for this whole mess too, let's continue with our fallback plan that neither of us wanted" - again taking just three examples.

 

There are so many different ways to interpret that scene.

[Solas]

Do you mean the name I couldn't remember?

Because if you're responding to the second half of what you quoted, I'm really not talking about Ghilan'nain.  I was postulating that Fen'Harel was the original "god."

yeah I quoted the wrong bit sry 

[MrMrPendragon]

I think the Dread Wolf is inside him, just like how Mythal is inside Flemeth.

 

I don't know the specifics but I do know that Flemeth wants to preserve old magics, and I'm assuming Solas wants the same thing too. Given that they're elven gods, I believe they're trying to make the world revert back to the state where they were gods. Tbh, I thought when Flemeth said Mythal was betrayed, I thought she was talking about FenHarel betraying them. But I guess somewhere sometime during the time of the ancient elves, she got murdered and everything went to sh*t. The dread wolf tries to seal all the gods away because they caused too many wars, thinking that the elves' dependece on gods is what's keeping them from true peace, but it seemse like the ancient elves weren't ready to be on their own.

 

The elves killed each other and Tevinter basically salvaged the remains of the war.

 

It just occured to me that since these guys existed during the time where there was a Fade already (and they went dreamt there), wouldn't that mean the Old Gods and the Dragons pre-date these elven gods? I vaguely recall that in one of the comics it is said that before the Veil, the dragons ruled the skies. Somehow that got changed and the dragons disappeared and the Veil got built. Somehow. So since we're talking about gods, wouldn't the Old Gods be superior I guess because they are "outside" the elven pantheon's creation or scope?

 

As for the last scene, I think Solas/Dread Wolf was already planning the return of the elven gods before he even knew about Flemeth. In comes Flemeth to help Solas but he fails her. He apologizes and leaves everything in the hands of Flemeth. Mythal jumps inside Solas, or maybe Solas is bound to Mythal now.

[lyleoffmyspace]

 

Theory:

1. Someone very powerful betrayed all the old gods and created the taint as his/her weapon. That or the taint is the result of the collective stupidity of the gods in their war.

 

2. The old gods were put to sleep or they were forced to sleep trying to contain this blight. The blight fights back by sending darkspawns to awaken/corrupt them.

 

3. Five old gods are now gone, the seal is weaken hence the taint is beginning to leak and hence red lyrium. If Dread Wolf can be trusted, he said killing the old gods would make things worse.

 

 

The seal thing is really interesting. How does this link to the Primeval Thaig though? Was that just ground zero for the red lyrium infection that is spreading throughout Thedas, and that happened post Urthemiel's death, or had that always been there?

 

Regarding Old God souls as a seal, that means saving the soul of Urthemiel on the form of Kieran is extremely important. However I understand what Solas has against the Grey Wardens killing Archdemons, but he can't be angry at them, because if they didn't do what they did, Thedas would have been destroyed and blighted long before he awakened from his sleep.

[Heimdall]

My potted history ideas.
 
Fen'Harel locks the Elven Gods away in the Golden/Black City with the help of the elves themselves who have come to see them as tyrants.
 
The Elven civilisation wanes without their great magical power.
 
Humans arrive on the continent. The Elven Gods begin to speak to the humans in their dreams, telling them secrets, giving them power, and urging them to attack their rebellious subjects. This is done both for vengeance and for longer term plans. They are re-interpreted, owing to the shifting nature of the Fade, into the Old Gods.
 
The Tevinters cast down Arlathan, taking the elves as slaves.
 
The Old Gods now convince the magisters to try and break them out of their prison, using huge amounts of blood sacrifice and lyrium.
 
Each of the magisters, as Cory does in DA:I, has a dragon at their command.
 
The magisters succeed, the souls of the Old Gods are transmitted to their dragons, but the blight is also created.

Timeline's not quite right. Humans arrived quite awhile before Elvhenan fell. While I've considered the idea that the Elven Gods and the Old Gods are the same thing, I've come to think that they are more likely two groups of the same beings, one deciding to favor elves and the other deciding to favor humans. One group sealed in the Golden City, another cursed to slumber beneath the earth, all by Fen'Harel's well intentioned attempt to remove gods from the stage.

Also, Cory's dragon was just a normal dragon he only recently gained, invested a part of his being in, and infected with red lyrium. Not something he would have had before.

[Friera]

 

 

I hope there will be another game that covers the return of the Elven gods. Hell, I wouldn't mind having an Inquisition trilogy. Origins to Inquisition was a weird trilogy because all 3 games are so different from each other, but if they redo starting with Inquisition and have an Inquisition 2 and 3 then it would be a lot more focused because Inquisition is a great foundation that they can build on. Kind of like the Mass Effect trilogy, where the combat and story did not change completely midway through and things were kept nice and focused (*coughcough*until the ending*cough*)

 

The more I think about it, the more I like your idea. Like Inquisition was really a prequel to set the foundation for the whole Elven God thing.

 

However, I LOVED Shepard (and Hawke for that matter). She/he was so awesome with tons of personality! While the Inq was kinda boring and less of a personality.

[Adynata]

I remember reading in-game codex that said after the Dread Wolf locked the gods away he guarded them, which I assumed was why Solas spent so much time in the Fade (for centuries if you listen closely to some of his banter with Blackwall). So he never went to sleep or woke up. My boyfriend and I were wondering what purpose Cory's broken ball is actually supposed to serve. Did it bind his life force to that dragon? Is that why Cory was so weak/makes you fight the dragon? Did the Dread Wolf mean to use it to bind the life force of the other old gods if they woke?

[xnarcosysx]

Excellent article writeup on the ending. Basic summarization is that Archdemons are elven gods. There's 7 of them total. Explains why Flemeth and morrigan can turn into dragons that look like Archdemons. Explains why Flemeth/mythal had an interest in OGB, to release his spirit to the fade where he belongs. The Archdemons are physical remnants of the sealed away elven spirits. The blight was a protection against accessing the golden city (possibly arlathan). Also because we know the elven gods can transfer their souls to the willing, this supports Archdemons because the blight are mindless servants and therefore willing and so the Archdemons can transfer. Also makes since how grey wardens can kill Archdemons because they are unwilling. Also mashes it more clear as to why solas hates the Grey wardens with a passion. Because they are killing of the elven pantheon.

Next game will be the remaining elven gods awakened as the baddies imo.

http://kotaku.com/dr...ined-1671137779

[Adynata]

Excellent article writeup on the ending. Basic summarization is that Archdemons are elven gods. There's 7 of them total. Explains why fleet and morrigan can turn into drains that look like Archdemons. Explains why Flemeth/mythal had an interest in OGB, to release his spirit to the fade where he belongs. The Archdemons are physical remnants of the sealed away elven spirits. The blight was a protection against accessing the golden city (possibly arlathan). Also because we know the elven gods can transfer their souls to the willing, this supports Archdemons because the blight are mindless servants and therefore willing and so the Archdemons can transfer. Also makes since how grey wardens can kill Archdemons because they are unwilling. Also mashes it more clear as to why solas hates the Grey wardens with a passion. Because they are killing of the elven pantheon.

Next game will be the remaining elven gods awakened as the baddies imo.

http://kotaku.com/dr...ined-1671137779

 

This all sounds quite likely, and makes the DA lore more interesting imo. But correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the archdemon's sole go into the warden that strikes the killing blow and that's why he has to be sacrificed (and why Morrigan offers up the baby idea to save the warden's life)?