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[Adynata]

archdemon's sole 

 

Of course I mean the sole of his foot. Obviously........

 

 

where's the edit button?

[xnarcosysx]

This all sounds quite likely, and makes the DA lore more interesting imo. But correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the archdemon's sole go into the warden that strikes the killing blow and that's why he has to be sacrificed (and why Morrigan offers up the baby idea to save the warden's life)?

Yes it goes to the nearest blight. Tricking the Archdemons into thinking he is a 'Willing servant' when he's not. Thus killing both. The baby is not able to be willing or unwilling at the time the event occurred. That's why they just coexist and are not 'one'.

[Gonzo]

Some people have compeling evidence that the Epilogue is set on the Crossroads. If so, do you guys notice how it seems more "full of life" then when morrigan takes you there? Could it be that their presence there "awake" the place?

[xnarcosysx]

Of course I mean the sole of his foot. Obviously........


where's the edit button?

You tap your post, if on your phone and click edit. Should be lower right on comp.

[Heimdall]

Yes it goes to the nearest blight. Tricking the Archdemons into thinking he is a 'Willing servant' when he's not. Thus killing both. The baby is not able to be willing or unwilling at the time the event occurred. That's why they just coexist and are not 'one'.

I still think this means that the Old Gods and the elven gods are the same type of beings, but not the same beings.

 

As I understand it, the Old Gods spoke to the ancient Neromenian dreamers that became the Tevinters in dreams long before the Imperium came to exist and long before Elvhenan collapsed.  I'm not sure why the Elven gods would do that.  And none of the gods quite overlap in their aspects.

 

But, here's a wild theory:  Gods are really just Shapeshifting Dragon Mages...  Too far?

[xnarcosysx]

I still think this means that the Old Gods and the elven gods are the same type of beings, but not the same beings.

As I understand it, the Old Gods spoke to the ancient Neromenian dreamers that became the Tevinters in dreams long before the Imperium came to exist and long before Elvhenan collapsed. I'm not sure why the Elven gods would do that. And none of the gods quite overlap in their aspects.

But, here's a wild theory: Gods are really just Shapeshifting Dragon Mages... Too far?

The elven gods were sealed away before the fall of elves and the rise of tevinter. So they could have been talking to them because they were probably more easily 'touched' than the elves were. Maybe more sensitive to the magic/fade than the elves who only knew about praying to their gods. When you're in isolation you try to find the closest thing to contact to keep sanity or get you free.

Read the linked article in me post before that.

[Heimdall]

The elven gods were sealed away before the fall of elves and the rise of tevinter. So they could have been talking to them because they were probably more easily 'touched' than the elves were. Maybe more sensitive to the magic/fade than the elves who only knew about praying to their gods. When you're in isolation you try to find the closest thing to contact to keep sanity or get you free.

Read the linked article in me post before that.

I read the article, and it gets this wrong.  We don't actually know when the elven gods were sealed away or when Elvhenan's internal strife began.  I sort of doubt it occurred over 2000 years before the Imperium even existed (That's the time from when the Old Gods started talking to them).

 

That said, I think they were also sealed by Fen'Harel, which is why they eventually stopped talking to their worshipers.  I believe this partly because the Dalish themselves speak of a second feuding pantheon, the Forgotten Ones.  A feud, I believe, may have arisen from the Forgotten Ones choosing to favor humans instead of elves.  Where they interacted with their followers through the Fade, the Elven Gods walked amongst the people.  So the Dread Wolf sealed the latter in the physical world (And again sealed in underground prisons) while the others were sealed in the Fade (And again sealed within the Golden City), all cut off from interacting with their followers.

 

I've also heard that Corypheus may have been motivated by a crisis of faith rather than the whispers of Dumat, but I can't find the reference and may be wrong.

[xnarcosysx]

I read the article, and it gets this wrong. We don't actually know when the elven gods were sealed away or when Elvhenan's internal strife began. I sort of doubt it occurred over 2000 years before the Imperium even existed (That's the time from when the Old Gods started talking to them).

That said, I think they were also sealed by Fen'Harel, which is why they eventually stopped talking to their worshipers. I believe this partly because the Dalish themselves speak of a second feuding pantheon, the Forgotten Ones. A feud, I believe, may have arisen from the Forgotten Ones choosing to favor humans instead of elves. Where they interacted with their followers through the Fade, the Elven Gods walked amongst the people. So the Dread Wolf sealed the latter in the physical world (And again sealed in underground prisons) while the others were sealed in the Fade (And again sealed within the Golden City), all cut off from interacting with their followers.

I've also heard that Corypheus may have been motivated by a crisis of faith rather than the whispers of Dumat, but I can't find the reference and may be wrong.

The feuding creators and forgotten ones weren't the cause of the fall of arlathan, maybe inadvertently because it lead to their sealing . That occurred after they were all sealed away. So they could have started talking to what would become the Tevinters and then got sealed away. And like you said the creators or elven were physically sealed away, thus supporting that they are the archdemon's. Once sealed away the elves had no gods to support them and they civilization fell to humans and the Tevinters.

[Shadpants]

Some people have compeling evidence that the Epilogue is set on the Crossroads. If so, do you guys notice how it seems more "full of life" then when morrigan takes you there? Could it be that their presence there "awake" the place?

I think it was said in the Masked Empire that humans experience the crossroads in a different way from elves. For an elf it is lively and full of color, while for a human it is what we saw when Morrigan took the inquisitor there. 

Does anyone know if the sequence is the same with Lavellan or if Lavellan sees the eluvian area how it was shown in the epilogue?

[Heimdall]

The feuding creators and forgotten ones weren't the cause of the fall of arlathan, maybe inadvertently because it lead to their sealing . That occurred after they were all sealed away. So they could have started talking to what would become the Tevinters and then got sealed away. And like you said the creators or elven were physically sealed away, thus supporting that they are the archdemon's. Once sealed away the elves had no gods to support them and they civilization fell to humans and the Tevinters.

I didn't say they were. My theory is that, as the civil war was going on in Elvhenan, the Old Gods were grooming the Tevinters to strike at the civilization of their enemies. Meanwhile, Fen'Harel was supporting the slaves in their rebellion against the elven nobles while the rest of the pantheon save Mythal supported the nobles. Mythal, I believe, refused to takes sides and was murdered by Elgar'nan for it. That might have been the event that drove the Dread Wolf to drastic action. So in an attempt to save the elves from slavery and the humans led by the Old Gods, he worked some kind of spell or ritual that entombed all the gods.  Naturally, exactly what he was afraid of happening, happened.

[buyachakka]

I was under the impression that Flemeth sends a part of her essence(s) through the Eluvian (probably for safekeeping) and gives the rest to Solas. The scene did not seem to implement force, at least not for me. 

 

 

What about Morrigan is at the other End of the Eluvian (since we have one in Skyhold + Morrigan is bound to Mythal) and receives the whatever-it-was-essence? Perhaps both had a conversation with each other about Solas' Failure (therefore Flemeth knew of his result and that he is coming to her afterwards)?

[xnarcosysx]

I didn't say they were. My theory is that, as the civil war was going on in Elvhenan, the Old Gods were grooming the Tevinters to strike at the civilization of their enemies. Meanwhile, Fen'Harel was supporting the slaves in their rebellion against the elven nobles while the rest of the pantheon save Mythal supported the nobles. Mythal, I believe, refused to takes sides and was murdered by Elgar'nan for it. That might have been the event that drove the Dread Wolf to drastic action. So in an attempt to save the elves from slavery and the humans led by the Old Gods, he worked some kind of spell or ritual that entombed all the gods. Naturally, exactly what he was afraid of happening, happened.

It's not proven but it is quote possible that the Forgotten ones are 'elves' as well. They were just of opposite views and ways of thinking. It's like all the spirits. They are all spirits but can be categorized as polar opposites. That may be what the creators were when the fade was a part of the world. Spirits of certain qualities who took form. so if that's the case i don't see the forgotten destroying their own worshippers.

[Zombie_Alexis]

I have been thoroughly enjoying this thread and reading everyone's theories. Solas has by far become my favorite Dragon Age character, and that's saying something!

 

One thing I noticed is that most people have been translating Solas' name to the negative defiinition of "Pride". Yes, it can mean "Arrogance" and it is associated in Western culture with one of the Deadly Sins, but remember that is can also mean "a feeling of honor and self-respect; a sense of personal worth" or "a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc." and I think the positive definition fits more closely to Solas' personality. If he did indeed incite a slave rebellion, I think that this definition is appropriate in that regard as well.

 

I'm fascinated with the whole Dread Wolf story line because I adore Trickster tales. I love the boundary crossing and rebellion that most Tricksters take part in. I also like that many tales contradict themselves. One of my favorite tales is from the Ho-Chunk tribe of North America (look under Winnebago Trickster Cycle if you'd like to read more). Wakjakaga stories are usually quite humorous and he is more of a Holy Clown archetype than a malevolent being. But the thing I find interesting is that after all his exploits, he becomes a teacher and helper to the tribe. He clears away the debris from the banks of the river and teaches them to plant and grow food. Solas made me think of this with his interest in knowledge and his general approval for making choices that benefit the most people.

 

I'm feeling pretty confident that we are going to get more on Solas and the nature of the Dread Wolf it's just getting through the unbearable wait that will be the challenge!

[herkles]

I am curious to know how might a romanced lavellan react to knowing that she fell in love with the dread wolf and how might other dalish react to that news

[LadyVaJedi]

Is it still possible that dread wolf is the marker

[LadyVaJedi]

I would love if my female elf had Solas' s baby

[Heimdall]

It's not proven but it is quote possible that the Forgotten ones are 'elves' as well. They were just of opposite views and ways of thinking. It's like all the spirits. They are all spirits but can be categorized as polar opposites. That may be what the creators were when the fade was a part of the world. Spirits of certain qualities who took form. so if that's the case i don't see the forgotten destroying their own worshippers.

Destroying their own worshippers? Their worshippers are the Tevinters, they are the enemies of the Elven Pantheon and are seen as malevolent by everything we know about the elven religion. The forgotten ones (Old Gods) and the elven pantheons are not the same beings, there's no indication of that.

[Adynata]

 

I have been thoroughly enjoying this thread and reading everyone's theories. Solas has by far become my favorite Dragon Age character, and that's saying something!

 

One thing I noticed is that most people have been translating Solas' name to the negative defiinition of "Pride". Yes, it can mean "Arrogance" and it is associated in Western culture with one of the Deadly Sins, but remember that is can also mean "a feeling of honor and self-respect; a sense of personal worth" or "a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc." and I think the positive definition fits more closely to Solas' personality. If he did indeed incite a slave rebellion, I think that this definition is appropriate in that regard as well.

 

 

I didn't expect that the bald elf would become my favorite character, but it is so. I can't not have him in my party line up. I think at times he is a bit arrogant, particularly in some banter with Iron Bull, Sera, and Dorian. But I think that's why it's so interesting that solas can translate to arrogance as well as pride. 

[myahele]

There's certainly some connection with the 7 old gods and elves. An elven ruin at the emerald graves have statues of 7 dragons with the center one looking very different. Additionally, there are these 7 demon looking statues(thier alternate forms?)

 

[Gonzo]

I think it was said in the Masked Empire that humans experience the crossroads in a different way from elves. For an elf it is lively and full of color, while for a human it is what we saw when Morrigan took the inquisitor there.

Does anyone know if the sequence is the same with Lavellan or if Lavellan sees the eluvian area how it was shown in the epilogue?

I played an elf. Its the same gray thing.

[TranquilFist]

Some people have compeling evidence that the Epilogue is set on the Crossroads. If so, do you guys notice how it seems more "full of life" then when morrigan takes you there? Could it be that their presence there "awake" the place?

It's not within the crossroads, the area Solas and Flemeth are in at the end of the game is North of the area where the Well of sorrows on the World map... I think

[Cecilia L]

We need a Wolf Hunt DLC/100 hour Expansion!

[electrifried]

That explain it! The tale was that Fen'Harel tricked the gods and sealed them, and since the Veil contains the Golden/Black city, plus the spirits, demons, and magical essences that mages and draw power from, it make sense that the Golden/Black city is where those gods live, and Fen'Harel sealed the Fade apart from the physical realm, but it had unintended consequences - leaving the normal elves being lost, and the chaos in the world due to the difference between the physical realm and the Fade. As for the 'gods', I think that the Ancient Elves, ones who lives for a long time, were a cross between magic and physical, letting them live as long as they did, and wield magic as they can. However, they are prideful, and hold themselves above their creations (as they recreated the world), and enslaved the elves - that's why Solas said the vallaslin was mark of slavery. And Solas was indeed a good guy, intended to do good but wasn't aware of the consequences. He sealed the 'gods' into the Fade, and went to sleep, only to wake up to the chaos that is the events of Dragon Age. Since he had slept for so long, and magic is sealed in the Fade, he doesn't have as much power as he used to, so he disguised as a mage, and started on the journey of trying to fix what he did wrong. However, I don't think that he intend to wake up the old gods/ancient elves, as it would only unleash their malice onto the world, and make his act of sealing them counterproductive. Not to mention, as he disliked their actions before of pride and slavery, I really doubt that he would let them out for them to enslave the other races again. As far as the old gods vs the ancient elves, I don't know, it's kinda tie to the story about two clashing factions of gods in the Elvhenan's stories; however, Solas stated that the archdemon/old gods have nothing to do with the elves......Kinda raise a lot of questions. What if the Archdemon itself was not Archdemon as the world understood it? The old gods exist, but they were tainted when the darkspawns found them; could they be the essense of the ancient elves, corrupted by the twisted darkness of the darkspawn? Judging from Corypheus' tale, the magisters of Tevinter did entered the Fade, and changed into something else. Could it be that they entered the Fade in the flesh, their desires corrupted the spirits there, and that in turn corrupted them? What happen to the ancient elves' essences then? How did the Tevinter Magistered entered the Golden/Black city in the first place? Corypheus said that the throne was empty, but he was expecting actualy physical form as they understood it? And since the Fade's spirits, as explained by Solas, existed as energies, could it be that the Magisters encountered ancient elven's essences and thought it was nothing?

 

So many theories, and so interesting! I think they probably will release the truth about the powerful ancient elves in DLCs or something XD
 

That's an interesting way of looking at it, I think it totally makes sense the ancient elves were of the physical and spirit world, and that they were arrogant enough to enslave all the other elves. Could that be why Solas rebelled against this and sealed them up? He doesn't seem pure evil to me, even though he is painted in a negative light by the elvish lore. This is why I'm inclined to also believe Solas is some sort of ancient elf/spirit too (from the way he can talk through Cole). 

 

I also believe the old gods were sealed away underground by Solas (who I think could also be the 'Maker' himself), and these gods corrupted into darkspawn and archdemons. This explains why Morrigan was able to obtain the old god soul from the archdemon in Origins and also why Solas dislikes wardens so much.

[electrifried]

I am just not buying the whole Flemeth = Elven goddess thing. Lol. Just no. Morrigan says to Leliana that her mother would copulate with men and then kill them afterwards and that Morrigan was expected to do that as well.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=4nDfk58gpHs

Flemeth was an abomination. Posessed by a demon..

Flemeth says in the Fade that Mythal is a part of her as the 'heart is part of the chest'. I believe Flemeth was mortal once, ages ago. She mentions being betrayed, and also wanting revenge for Mythal's betrayal. Well I think that Flemeth was once Andraste, as she was betrayed by her mortal husband and burned at the stake. However her followers believe she was reborn as a dragon. Could Mythal have somehow helped make her immortal? This could explain why Flemeth can shapeshift into a dragon. I think there is some basis of truth to the Chantry as well as the elven lore, and they probably intersect at some point. 

[xnarcosysx]

Destroying their own worshippers? Their worshippers are the Tevinters, they are the enemies of the Elven Pantheon and are seen as malevolent by everything we know about the elven religion. The forgotten ones (Old Gods) and the elven pantheons are not the same beings, there's no indication of that.

The elven pantheon isn't even proven to be truly elven, just taking that form. So in that sense, the creators and forgotten ones could be related. Meaning spirits.

The Tevinters rose after the sealing, the elves didn't have a means to contact but the Tevinters embraced magic. If the creators were sealed physically and the forgotten ones in the fade, then they are the only ones the Tevinters could contact.