435 réponses à ce sujet

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

Yes, but Solas expresses a strong disagreement for the plan.

 

I remember that he was angry because of demons.

[DarkSpiral]

I remember that he was angry because of demons.

I took him with me to the ruined tower, to confront Erimond, specifically to see what he might say.  This is prior to Adamant.

 

He was specifically outraged because killing the Old Gods could unleash something even worse.  Then, back in Skyhold, he had a one-time discussion where you could try to defend the Wardens, or condemn them along with him.  I don't think the demons were specifically the issue.  Not that he doesn't have issues with people binding demons, because All New, Faded for Her makes it clear he has huge issue with it.  But it didn't seem to be the primary issue he had, in this case.  He is specifically angry because they want to delve into the Deep Roads and pre-emptively kill the Old Gods before they can be corrupted into Archdemons.

[Saricc]

According to Solas the old gods are dead even the Dragon of night and the Dragon of Mistery, this is the reason of why they cannot awake from their sleep, so when you said soul of an old god you use" Morrigan words"  but morrigan know nothing aboout the old gods and use the word soul instead of essence, the correct word is essence of the old gods.  Now regarding the ending  Solas absorb the essence of the beauty god without knowing that Flemeth have inside her the essence of the beuty dragon so maybe now if you have Kieran in your world state he is able to read the mind of the dread wolf.

In fact i belive that all the elven gods are dead (except for the dread wolf) only their power-essence remains like Mythal grant her power to Flemeth, however as Gaider said the elven gods are not creators so to me they are not gods , maybe they are very powerful among mortals but the golden-black city was not created by them, like the demons and the spirits.  The elven gods are more then demons and spirit but they have not the quality to be called  true GODS.

I don't think Flemeth has the Old God soul with her when Solas takes her soul or she takes his. If you watch the cutscene you can see her releasing what looks like the Old god soul into the eluvian. 

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

@DarkSpiral

 

We have a new theory - The Black City was prison. The Elven Gods cheated on Tevinters and tempted them to go to the Black City, because they wanted to use them as tools to go back to Thedas. Something wrong happend and all of them ended up in the Deep Roads. The Magisters become a Dark Spawn and corrupted one of the gods - Dumat and made him free. I don't know if the Elven Gods wanted to destroy Thedas using the Blight or Blight was a side effect of their actions with Tevinters. Fen'Harel could be a spirit that choosd Andraste to destroy Tevinter, but I have no idea what is the reason for telling her his home was a Golden City.

 

There is one more importan thing about Maker. Did Magisters believe that Golden City was Maker's or the Old Gods'? The first option doesn't work with a theory that Fen'Harel introduced himself as Maker.

[Uirebhiril]

I don't think Flemeth has the Old God soul with her when Solas takes her soul or she takes his. If you watch the cutscene you can see her releasing what looks like the Old god soul into the eluvian. 

 

She also does that - whatever it is - in a game where there is no old god baby. Could be a bit of herself, perhaps?

[Patchwork]

I really like your theory, but it has one weakness - why the Elven Gods ended up sleeping in the Deep Roads as the Archdemons?

 

Something went wrong? Maybe because the Golden City was designed by elves for elves as a prison it react badly to the presence of humans and spat them out a blighted creates. The Creators bodies remain in the City but their souls went with the magisters to the Deep Roads and got trapped there. 

 

A Blight starts when a darkspwan finds one of these souls and becomes an Archdemon.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

@Patchwork
 
Good point. I expanded your theory a little bit, but I ended up with one more question. Please, read my previous post and let me know what do you think.
 
EDIT:

 

I swear to the Maker anymore of this **** and my head is going to explode. I can’t fuc*ing handle all of these parallels and clues and afjkdlskfjdlaskdfj

 

Me too. o.O
 

 

 

 

[myahele]

I remember a while back somebody had the theory that the Old Gods acted like "jailors" their exhistance kept whatever  was in the city from releasing.

 

In Mythals temple "pillars of the earth" was mentioned. What if that line was talking about the old gods? Without them supporting the earth things will just come crumbling down

[Patchwork]

@DarkSpiral

 

We have a new theory - The Black City was prison. The Elven Gods cheated on Tevinters and tempted them to go to the Black City, because they wanted to use them as tools to go back to Thedas. Something wrong happend and all of them ended up in the Deep Roads. The Magisters become a Dark Spawn and corrupted one of the gods - Dumat and made him free. I don't know if the Elven Gods wanted to destroy Thedas using the Blight or Blight was a side effect of their actions with Tevinters. Fen'Harel could be a spirit that choosd Andraste to destroy Tevinter, but I have no idea what is the reason for telling her his home was a Golden City.

 

There is one more importan thing about Maker. Did Magisters believe that Golden City was Maker's or the Old Gods'? The first option doesn't work with a theory that Fen'Harel introduced himself as Maker.

 

Personally I don't think Fen'Harel has been awake for very long. Witch Hunt at the earliest, maybe Morrigan accidentally did something that woke him up.  Imprisoning the other gods and creating the Veil (deliberate or not) took a lot out of him, he's been re-building his strength ever since.

 

I'm leaning towards Andraste truely believing she speaks to a god, her invoking the Maker to give war against Tevinter a religious flair or like the Inquisitor the people believed she spoke to/for a god that was a truer god than Tevinter's and arguing against it was useless.  

[Maniccc]

Inquis and Solas have a conversation where Solas basically says it would be nice if the veil was gone and people and spirits could travel freely back and forth.  The orb is a key that opens the veil so one can enter the fade, physically.

 

For some reason, Solas gave Cory the orb.  This seems amazingly dumb, given who Cory is, but hey, Solas seems rather simple minded and naive, which is borne out by his image in the game of being a sort of vagabond apostate.  Solas wants to create some sort of pro-spirit utopia or something along those lines.

 

I don't really understand Flemythal at all.  She wants revenge...on who?  The god who betrayed her?  When she talks about it in DAI it seems like a much bigger thing than that.  And what does that have to do with helping the Warden in DAO?  And why does she meet up with Solas at the end to chastise him about giving Cory the orb?  Why would she care?  And what about eating her daughters to keep herself alive?  Morrigan could have been wrong about that, I suppose; she's wrong about pretty much everything else, it seems.

 

As far as who ate whom, based on the facial expressions and the conversation leading up to that point, I have no idea.  Solas looks sad, Flemeth looks in control, like she's his superior.  She is comforting him.  They both say "I'm sorry."  Every time I see that scene, I have no clue if Solas ate Flemythal or Mythal dumped Flemeth for Solas, or something else entirely.  The writers might not even know, or have known when they wrote the scene.  I have a feeling they are making it up as they go along.

 

As far as some people thinking the Maker is involved, etc., and that we're going to meet him or something....nope.  The Maker is the story's version of God.  You can meet messengers, gods, powers, and whatever else, but the Maker is outside of the cosmos, since the Maker created it from nothing (presumably), and is therefore not a part of the world/universe himself.  Mythal et al are gods in the same way that Zeus and Hera are gods.  And this is what we're talking about; what are these gods getting up to?  They are not all-knowing or powerful, they make mistakes, they are driven by human emotions and urges, and so on.  So to equate them with the Maker makes no sense, or to think that we'll meet the Maker, is silly to me.  These so-called gods are creatures of the world.  The Maker is not.

[MACharlie1]

 

I don't really understand Flemythal at all.  She wants revenge...on who?  The god who betrayed her?  When she talks about it in DAI it seems like a much bigger thing than that.  And what does that have to do with helping the Warden in DAO?  And why does she meet up with Solas at the end to chastise him about giving Cory the orb?  Why would she care?  And what about eating her daughters to keep herself alive?  Morrigan could have been wrong about that, I suppose; she's wrong about pretty much everything else, it seems.

 

If you have a perk, you can bring up the legend of Flemeth to her in the Fade - the story of how she married Conobar and was having an affair with Osen and ended up locked away in the dark after Conobar killed Osen - calling upon the spirits to help her and Mythal answered. The only issue is that this story has two versions from Origins: Leliana and Morrigan. Morrigan stating that Conobar was just a jealous Bann. Thus the revenge angle is at Conobar. 

 

My view is still that Andraste = Flemeth, Conobar = Maferath, Osen = Solus.

 

Just sayin'... 

[Obadiah]

My theory is that Solas is an ancient elven mage/priest that used to allow spirits like Mythal to possess his body. That's why Solas can fight and go unconscious like every other party member, and why the dread wolf's image is at the Mythal temple.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Did he kill Flemeth/Mythal at the end and steal her power, or something?  

 

And what did Morrigan mean when she said she was "so wrong" about Flemeth desiring immortality?

[myahele]

We know that elves can be elevated into "godhood" by the others if they show the aptitude as seen with Ghilanain: the youngest of the pantheon.

[Obadiah]

Did he kill Flemeth/Mythal at the end and steal her power, or something?  
...

Seems like whatever happened, Flemeth/Mythal was the one that was surprised. Hard to tell for certain.

[ZawiszaTheBlack]

Personally I don't think Fen'Harel has been awake for very long. Witch Hunt at the earliest, maybe Morrigan accidentally did something that woke him up.  Imprisoning the other gods and creating the Veil (deliberate or not) took a lot out of him, he's been re-building his strength ever since.

 

I forgot to say that Fen'Harel was dreaming. We have no proof that the Elven Gods weren't sleeping while talking to Tevinters.

 

Something interesting about the ancient Elven lore - click!

[xnarcosysx]

Anyone noticed the winged and masked statues of mythal in her temple?

What's awesome is before I knew all this I picked the mythal slave marking for my female elven character. And I'm drinking from the well.

[Klystron]

This is just a guess on my part, but if Fen'Harel/DreadWolf/perhaps_Solas created the Veil, allowing humans to exist, could he be their Maker?

 

Then if Andraste is Mythal/Flemeth/Ashabellanar, could she be the Bride of the Maker?  i.e. they were actually lovers (Elgarnan was Mythal's hubby).  

 

Regarding future games, this one focused on elves and mostly ignored dwarves.  Since the we get hints that the Primeval Thaig was somehow involved in creation of the Corruption, I'd guess that the next game will probably delve into dwarven history. 

[convergecultist3]

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Solas, my guess is that he absorbed Flemeth. He absorbed her power/soul/whatever not because he is an "evil trickster," but for the more likely reason since the orb was destroyed, that they (Solas, Mythal, whoever, whomever, etc) need that greater power to activate something else. My guess is that they wish to restore the ancient magic of the elves. Whether that is soley to they elves, or to all the races, I'm not sure. I'm also not sure just how far Solas and company (if there is anyone else,) will go to achieve their goal(s).

[mackan__s]

aah, it explains a lot why Solas was such an idiot when asking him for help with the ancient elvens.

[Obadiah]

Anyone get the impression from Cole's dialog on Solas, when he reads his mind, that Thedas and everyone in it is some kind of mistake?

[Lord of Mu]

I forgot to say that Fen'Harel was dreaming. We have no proof that the Elven Gods weren't sleeping while talking to Tevinters.

 

Something interesting about the ancient Elven lore - click!

 

Very interesting.

 

The first entry:

 

A lover or friend? Of Ghilan'nain tried to join her as a god and take on a divine form reserved for the gods, Dragons. And was cast down by the other gods, he belonged to Dirthamen, possibly one of the followers or priests, someone who had access to the secrets of the gods. This man went to Mythal for justice. Instead, Mythal lets Elgar'Nan judge him. Which didn't turn out well for this individual.

 

Then an image is shown of a shadowy mass with blazing eyes whose form may be one or many. Could be this individual's soul was shattered and placed into the form reserved for the gods, then imprisoned underground. (The old gods) or it could just be a metaphor for something that takes on many forms and shapes, betrayal and a lust for power.

 

Now for the second I thought it might be a reference to the dark spawn but possibly now I think it might be a reference to the early Dwarven society. I remember a conversation with Solas about Lyrium. Lyrium is the remains of a great being that was slain, maybe it's possible that the second codex entry is a reference to this entity and the workers are the Dwarves. They certainly built a great empire in the earth, until the darkspawn arrived.

[Shahadem]

He's not the Dread Wolf because his room is always clean whenever I come by.

[xnarcosysx]

Finally beat the gane and watched the ending. Flemythal SOO jacked Solas' body. The dark clouds coming from her and then swirling in his eyes. Yup. I can see Flemeth being a villain but not solas. We don't know what she was apologizing for. We do him.

[jellobell]

Finally beat the gane and watched the ending. Flemythal SOO jacked Solas' body. The dark clouds coming from her and then swirling in his eyes. Yup. I can see Flemeth being a villain but not solas. We don't know what she was apologizing for. We do him.

And yet Solas speaks through Cole if you go check on him after the end of the game. I'm inclined to think he was the one who took her soul/power/whatever.