435 réponses à ce sujet

[eternalshiva]

*waggles eyebrows* I'm hoping DA:4 is about the Elven Gods and their wrath. That would be amazing. I'm pretty sure Solas took Flemeth's power - her "taking power" is blue (from the OGB scene), the one that came out of Solas into Flemeth was green and she looked surprised as f*ck.

[jellobell]

If DA4 is about the elven gods I hope the Inquisitor is still the protagonist. They're too tied to the orb to leave all of that major plot stuff to somebody else.

[Aren]

According to Solas the old gods are dead even the Dragon of night and the Dragon of Mistery, this is the reason of why they cannot awake from their sleep, so when you said soul of an old god you use" Morrigan words"  but morrigan know nothing aboout the old gods and use the word soul instead of essence, the correct word is essence of the old gods.  Now regarding the ending  Solas absorb the essence of the beauty god without knowing that Flemeth have inside her the essence of the beuty dragon so maybe now if you have Kieran in your world state he is able to read the mind of the dread wolf.

In fact i belive that all the elven gods are dead (except for the dread wolf) only their power-essence remains like Mythal grant her power to Flemeth, however as Gaider said the elven gods are not creators so to me they are not gods , maybe they are very powerful among mortals but the golden-black city was not created by them, like the demons and the spirits.  The elven gods are more then demons and spirit but they have not the quality to be called  true GODS.

[SwobyJ]

If DA4 is about the elven gods I hope the Inquisitor is still the protagonist. They're too tied to the orb to leave all of that major plot stuff to somebody else.

 

Personally, I'm hoping more for a large DAI expansion that cleans a lot of this stuff up, while maybe leaving enough stuff open to take us to ancient Arlathan in a DA4 or DA5. I don't particularly need to have 'Solas' around when later dealing with elven content.

 

There's a few major threads that could happen in future expansions or games. The Wardens and fate of the Darkspawn and Old Gods, Tevinter as a whole, possible Qunari invasion, ancient elven secrets, and I'm even open to dwarven revelations after seeing the stuff in DA2. DAI was only super major in closing off a lot of the TemplarVSMage and Chantry business, and even that technically isn't totally over.

 

But yeah, I wouldn't mind a large elven themed expansion with the Inquisitor, but with enough stuff left open for a DA4 or DA5 to focus on. I don't need all the Creators back in DAI, is basically what I'm saying

 

EDIT: It comes to mind that I may have seen Arlathan concept art months ago. Maybe this does mean a field trip there next year?

 

According to Solas the old gods are dead even the Dragon of night and the Dragon of Mistery, this is the reason of why they cannot awake from their sleep, so when you said soul of an old god you use" Morrigan words"  but morrigan know nothing aboout the old gods and use the word soul instead of essence, the correct word is essence of the old gods.  Now regarding the ending  Solas absorb the essence of the beauty god without knowing that Flemeth have inside her the essence of the beuty dragon so maybe now if you have Kieran in your world state he is able to read the mind of the dread wolf.

In fact i belive that all the elven gods are dead (except for the dread wolf) only their power-essence remains like Mythal grant her power to Flemeth, however as Gaider said the elven gods are not creators so to me they are not gods , maybe they are very powerful among mortals but the golden-black city was not created by them, like the demons and the spirits.  The elven gods are more then demons and spirit but they have not the quality to be called  true GODS.

 

The elven gods are godly by many definitions, just maybe not the popular monotheistic perspective.

 

Their role as Creators was to (re)create the world from what the Maker-or-whatever made of Thedas. This was successful in the form of Arlathan.

 

But yes, possibly 'just' super powerful spirits/whatever.

 

~~~

 

I'm inclined to think that 'Solas' took 'Flemeth' into him, possibly becoming one.

 

This however may not discount there being other essences of 'Flemeth' (this naming thing is going to be tricky) out there, maybe based on our choices.

 

It does seem like Bioware may have a whole other layer of choice-consequence to things based on what we did with Morrigan, Kieran, Flemeth, Inquisitor, and Solas. 0_0

[Ashagar]

Hmm, the next game or expansion might well involve the elven gods but I also wonder if it might not also involve the return of the maker or one of the teventiar old gods waking up without being tainted by the darkspawn given the other things that were gone and have returned or waken up in the dragon age.

[Dobyk]

According to Solas the old gods are dead even the Dragon of night and the Dragon of Mistery, this is the reason of why they cannot awake from their sleep, so when you said soul of an old god you use" Morrigan words"  but morrigan know nothing aboout the old gods and use the word soul instead of essence, the correct word is essence of the old gods.  Now regarding the ending  Solas absorb the essence of the beauty god without knowing that Flemeth have inside her the essence of the beuty dragon so maybe now if you have Kieran in your world state he is able to read the mind of the dread wolf.

In fact i belive that all the elven gods are dead (except for the dread wolf) only their power-essence remains like Mythal grant her power to Flemeth, however as Gaider said the elven gods are not creators so to me they are not gods , maybe they are very powerful among mortals but the golden-black city was not created by them, like the demons and the spirits.  The elven gods are more then demons and spirit but they have not the quality to be called  true GODS.

 

 

Well, in DAO it's explained very, very clearly that the Creators did NOT create the world, and Gaider confirmed they were "born" when the world was already created. It is said, however, that they recreated the world, so technically they should have created all living creatures on Thedas. And, of course, their greatest creations - the elves. Hence, "The Creators", those who created the people. As for whether they are "true" gods (whatever that means), it's very hard to judge. It could be spirits possessing bodies, or actual elves who are just very powerful, or elves who ascended to godhood (think the Tribunal in Morrowind), or, my favourite theory - that the Veil did not exist at the time of Arlathan, so the elves and gods walked freely and the Gods were spirits (although that kind of doesn't make sense since there is uthenera). Whatever the case, I really like the idea that Fen'Harel is a nice guy who screwed up badly.

 

A bit off-topic, but while we are still on elven gods - in the lost temple of Dirthamen one thing I did not fully understand is - were the priests blood mages, did DIrthamen teach blood magic? Or was blood magic just used to seal and torture the High One? By far Dirthamen is my favourite God and I always dedicate my characters to him, but when I saw "Chamber of Torment" and "Path of Sorrow" and stuff like that my blood froze. Can anyone clarify the lore surrounding that temple?

[Dobyk]

Personally, I'm hoping more for a large DAI expansion that cleans a lot of this stuff up, while maybe leaving enough stuff open to take us to ancient Arlathan in a DA4 or DA5. I don't particularly need to have 'Solas' around when later dealing with elven content.

 

There's a few major threads that could happen in future expansions or games. The Wardens and fate of the Darkspawn and Old Gods, Tevinter as a whole, possible Qunari invasion, ancient elven secrets, and I'm even open to dwarven revelations after seeing the stuff in DA2. DAI was only super major in closing off a lot of the TemplarVSMage and Chantry business, and even that technically isn't totally over.

 

But yeah, I wouldn't mind a large elven themed expansion with the Inquisitor, but with enough stuff left open for a DA4 or DA5 to focus on. I don't need all the Creators back in DAI, is basically what I'm saying

 

EDIT: It comes to mind that I may have seen Arlathan concept art months ago. Maybe this does mean a field trip there next year?

 

 

The elven gods are godly by many definitions, just maybe not the popular monotheistic perspective.

 

Their role as Creators was to (re)create the world from what the Maker-or-whatever made of Thedas. This was successful in the form of Arlathan.

 

But yes, possibly 'just' super powerful spirits/whatever.

 

~~~

 

I'm inclined to think that 'Solas' took 'Flemeth' into him, possibly becoming one.

 

This however may not discount there being other essences of 'Flemeth' (this naming thing is going to be tricky) out there, maybe based on our choices.

 

It does seem like Bioware may have a whole other layer of choice-consequence to things based on what we did with Morrigan, Kieran, Flemeth, Inquisitor, and Solas. 0_0

 

 

When I saw how FLemeth's essence entered Solas my first though was "Gotta catch 'em all!". DA4 - "Solas on the journey to capture and awaken the remaining elven gods. Stay tuned"

[Pierce Miller]

Wouldn't it be awesome if DA4 was basically just the return of the gods. Old gods Vs Elven gods and then the maker comes into it as well.

[MindWeb]

Flemeth states that taking over a body cannot be done without permission, so either Solas/Flemeth gave permission for the body/soul to be taken, or she was lying.

[HeyCal]

All I know is that I hope with all my heart we get a  "Wolf Hunt" type DLC so we can find Solas and get some closure and some answers questioned... Also as a Solas-mancer, I want more than anything to be able to go with him and help make the world a better place for The People! (I just want them to both be happy. QAQ)

 

Its an interesting thought if you drank from the Well..if Solas did steal Mythal/Flemeths' body, does that mean he is now Mythal as well and you are his servant? It's also kind of a fun thought to think he took out Mythal to protect you from being her pawn. Too many questions!! We must have answers!! 

[Pierce Miller]

MindWeb, on 25 Nov 2014 - 7:36 PM, said:

Flemeth states that taking over a body cannot be done without permission, so either Solas/Flemeth gave permission for the body/soul to be taken, or she was lying.

The lying thing doesn't seem that far fetched.

[Yuoaman]

I doubt that given he almost has to have been Felassin's master.

Given how powerful Solas probably was in his prime it's not too out there to assume that he had the ability to communicate with others while still asleep, to keep an eye on things.

[Random Spirit.]

Yes, Solas is Fen'Harel.

 

It's not clear what happened in the epilogue, other than that power was consolidated into one being. We know that it is possible for two spiritual entities to merge completely (Anders/Justice and as it seems, the human aspect of Flemeth/Myrthal) so maybe we are looking at a being that temporarily or not is made up of several fused souls/spirits.

 

My hope is that Bioware does not go the tired and predicatble road here and makes them "the big bad", but that this new power represents making the world as it once was for good and for evil, just as the current world has its ups and downs. Its seems that their goal was change as in uniting the fade with Thedas. Perhaps this is the ancient world order that will restore the elves power, because it seems quite possible that the elves and Arlathan is connected to the Golden/Black city (Duh!)

 

The theory is as follows: The elves are actually a race of spirits that can exist in the physical world and have been cut of from their spiritual source of power when the veil was created by the dread wolf in ancient time (possible to stop the warfare of the the most powerful spirits of the tim: The old gods, by the elves known as "the forgotten ones" and the Creators). It is said that Fen'Harel was kin to both the forgotten ones and the creators and the one that tricked them both into their separate realms (making their presence "dead" in the world). But perhaps he realized that it was a mistake corrupting the world and wanted to reverse the process.

 

Perhaps in future games you will help them change the world by uniting the worlds or fight to keep it as it is and develop in a new direction.

[Taleroth]

Am I allowed to make wild and unsubstantiated theories?

 

I don't see anyone stopping me.

 

Okay, here goes. Flemeth is old, we all know this. How old, though? What if she's older than the elves. What if Fen'harel doesn't see her as an equal, but sees her as a god to him?

 

At the end he's basically begging her to save his people and in doing so allowing her to possess him with the hope of accomplishing it.

[Ashagar]

What I think is that Fen'harel is the being that Flemeth made a bargain with to avenge her lovers death at the hands of the noble who broke his word with her and now Fen'harel took back what he gave her.

[Shadpants]

 

The lying thing doesn't seem that far fetched.

I think it is, Flemeth has not lied to anyone yet, has she? She has not answered some questions and was vague in most of the questions she asked, but to this point I do not think she has ever lied to anyone in the games.

Her exact words are "A soul is never forced upon the unwilling". And that only means that Flemeth can't possess someone without them wanting it...But Solas wanted her soul. So he did kill her and steal her soul.  don't think there is any question there. 

He is naive (He gave the orb to Cory, who is ironically in the same position as Solas), he is full of regret for whatever mistakes he made in the past and he is desperate to fix them. We can't forget he woke up to discover that everything he worked for in the past back fired, it's no wonder he doesn't like the dalish or modern elves, as they rejected him when he returned and made him want to bring back his people even more (ancient elves or elven gods).

Flemeth on the other hand, is the opposite. He killed her current form, but she will be back.  If we look at the books, especially the masked empire, there's a huge chance that Flemeth is the one who instructed and killed Felassan (I think Solas was too kind for that at the moment of his awakening) when he did not deliver the catch phrase and that Solas woke up when the Eluvian network was restored. Flemeth knew that would happen, she has had thousands of years to prepare and manipulate events to suit her big plan. Whatever Flemeth wants is related to the ancient times and if Solas intervenes, she's gonna bite back. The sorrow in her voice as she says she's sorry to him is more than likely because she knows what he is going to do and that she knows she will have to kill him for good later on.

Meh..in the end all I know is that we fucked up with the well and that Solas is even more fucked than we are....And Flemeth is going to be even more pissed and more vengeance driven in the future.

[Rifneno]

>A soul is not forced upon the unwilling

Pretty sure Janeka and Larius weren't willing. Just saying.

[Shadpants]

They weren't, however they had the taint in them and the taint works like a magnet. The taint most likely works like the piece of a soul and if it is there...Nothing stops someone else with a piece of it to get into a new host. 

[vbonnet19]

I had a thought regarding whether Flemeth possessed The Dread Wolf, or the Dread Wolf possessed Flemeth.

Oddly enough, my hunch comes from the wording of 'Flemeth' the Legendary character in the iOS and Andriod app game (sorry, not trying to advertise here) Heroes of Dragon Age.

It states that: "Flemeth gains power when an ALLY dies."

This is very and strangely specific, though it only equates to a numerical increase of her 'Power' statistic. BUT to my knowledge, she is the only champion worth noting that gains a benefit from an ally being killed. Morrigan, in Ho:DA gains health when an enemy dies, which is consistent with her ability kit in Dragon Age: Origins where she starts knowing "Drain Life"

My point being, while Ho:DA is HARDLY canonical in any sense whatsoever, it seems like great pains were taken to give the champions abilities that logically relate to the powers their character exhibits in the Dragon Age game series.

So, my assumption is that Flemeth in fact possessed the form and power of The Dread Wolf (whether he willingly did this or not is speculative) as it was a bid to increase her own power.

As to the assumption that possession cannot be forced upon someone, what about Uldred and the Broken Circle in DA:O? It was stated by Cullen, and being part of the mechanic of the Boss fight that: Uldred could in fact turn UNWILLING mages into abominations through magical ritual. Likewise in DA:2, Templar were being forced into becoming abominations against their will.

 

Needless to say, I am very interested in the outcome. Also, does anyone know what exactly Flemeth was doing when she was touching the surface of the eluvian? It didn't seem like she was trying to clean it... and she doesn't seem like the type to stop and admire its craftsmanship.

[Rifneno]

While I applaud your thought-provoking analysis, we must remember that this is a game where Jowan and Leliana's pet nug are set on a higher tier than Corypheus and the Arishok.

Either that or I just like repeating that blurb about HoDA.

[vbonnet19]

YES! That is entirely true. That's why I mentioned nothing in there is canonical!

Schmooples. Thank you, Bioware. for reminding us well and frequently that this is still a game!

 

[blahblah]

So, my assumption is that Flemeth in fact possessed the form and power of The Dread Wolf (whether he willingly did this or not is speculative) as it was a bid to increase her own power.

 

This isn't what I came to at all. Playing with subtitles and the same scene shows Flemeth *GASPS*. That either tells me one of two things when combined with the facial expressions.

 

1. Flemeth is in extreme pain and didn't see it coming, Solas forcefully took Mythal's soul/power. (most likely scenario imo)

 

2. Similar to number #1, Flemeth in pain, however Mythal willingly merged with Solas to form one being and has left Flemeth. Mythal/Solas as a powerful combined being will now be able to wage war on the heavens. (still plausible)

 

People need to stop talking as if Flemeth/Mythal are one in the same, they arent. Flemeth is just a host body to a powerful soul/spirit. In either case Flemeth is suffering from extreme pain and the body is dead.

[vbonnet19]

Shadpants' remark also got me thinking: Riordan in DA:O says a Grey Warden is necessary to slay an Archdemon because the soul upon death (Urthemiel's in that case) would seek out the nearest Darkspawn which is a "soulless vessel" and inhabit it. But instead, should the Archdemon be slain by a Warden, the soul of the Archdemon will be destroyed because the Warden is not a soulless vessel. YOOO meta-crisis. This means, I think that Corypheus would have had to use other, magical means to possess Janeka/Lairus to escape.

Since the taint is a bloodborne magical plague, maybe the fact that Janeka and Lairus are Warden's made it easier for Corypheus to possess them using Blood Magic?

 

I think that would mean whether Flemeth or Solas is the "will" of the merged being (like Justice/Anders), it was a mutually consensual process and both "souls" or "essences" still exist.

[vbonnet19]

blahblah, but then do you really believe Mythal or Fen'Harel instigated the merger? The look of pain and gasp are definitely signs of Flemeth's distress, but that, like you said is likely just the mortal woman being separated from Mythal and dying.

 

If Fen'Harel was too weak to use the orb, I don't think he was capable of ousting Mythal who had been awake for much of history. Also, is there any textual or lore-related evidence to suggest Fen'Harel could do that in the first place? We do know that Flemeth is entirely capable of this act, and indeed 'Flemeth's true grimoire' as Morrigan calls it details the rituals necessary to possess one's body, her "immortality". Let me know what you think!

I have not seen the ending with subtitles though, thank you for pointing that out!

[LordParbr]

Perhaps the orb was directly stolen from Fen'Harel? Maybe he used it to open a rift in the fade to banish the "gods."