435 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

Pffft. One of the things I adore about Solas is that he's such an unapologetic nerd (naturally, being the kind of person to argue about video game characters on the internet, this speaks to me). Ask him about anything to do with the Fade or his own expertise and he approves. And his nerdery is so enthusiastic and honest. That more than anything makes me believe that he wasn't just putting on a show. When he's talking about the Fade his mask slips.

Indeed I recall he finds it surprising that we are interested in what he has to say or the very fact if you agree with him. I really did like the story on the Qunari who did their own small method of rebellion by putting something extra in the bread. 

[Lulumi_Lumi]

I think he was telling the (liberally-edited) truth. He says the gods of Arlathan weren't "gods" per se. I think they were probably just very powerful mages, or noble rulers. That means that perhaps Solas did indeed grow up as a normal young man before coming into his power. Maybe he wasn't even a ruler at all, but just the leader of the rebellion. Or a learned scholar. Remember, he says that the Elves of Arlathan were immortal, and used magic as easily as breathing. That certainly sounds godlike, but it was apparently just a result of being an elf.

 

And the whole "god of deception" business is likely rubbish. The Dalish got so much wrong that we really can't take the myths as fact. He probably got branded with that title after he sealed away the "gods" and then disappeared, leaving Arlathan to eat itself in civil war. You can imagine how such a figure would be seen as malevolent.

 

Oh I see thank you, I'm still a bit confused on what's going on but reading this thread cleared it up a bit. I do assume that he might have pulled a few white lies and made up stories to make sure he wasn't suspicious though. Has there been any other clues if "Solas" is his real name and body or if he is using horcruxes except for the conversation with the demon in elvish?

[jellobell]

Oh I see thank you, I'm still a bit confused on what's going on but reading this thread cleared it up a bit. I do assume that he might have pulled a few white lies and made up stories to make sure he wasn't suspicious though. Has there been any other clues if "Solas" is his real name and body or if he is using horcruxes except for the conversation with the demon in elvish?

I always sort of assumed that "Solas" wasn't his real name. It means "pride" or "arrogance" in Elven, after all (remember the Solasan temple?) I also doubt his original name was Fen'harel. We just don't know enough to speculate.

 

And I don't think he's wearing the skin of someone else. I think he's a mythical figure nowadays, but in his own time he was probably someone very like the Inquisitor; the larger-than-life leader of a cause. He's an immortal dreamer, but not a "god". In my opinion, anyways.

[Heimdall]

I think the elven gods were indeed more than just powerful mages if not actual gods.

What I've seen of them suggests there's more to them than that.

[Heimdall]

I always sort of assumed that "Solas" wasn't his real name. It means "pride" or "arrogance" in Elven, after all (remember the Solasan temple?) I also doubt his original name was Fen'harel. We just don't know enough to speculate.
 
And I don't think he's wearing the skin of someone else. I think he's a mythical figure nowadays, but in his own time he was probably someone very like the Inquisitor; the larger-than-life leader of a cause. He's an immortal dreamer, but not a "god". In my opinion, anyways.

Fen'harel might well have been his name (As far as I know, it doesn't actually mean Dread Wolf, in which case I would call it an epithet). Calling himself Solas seems to be an act of self deprecation at seeing the world he thought he had helped so long ago.

[Arahnea]

Interesting thing I just remembered, there is a banter where Varric and Solas talk about one of Varrics novels where almost everyone turns out to be a spy in the end. Solas finds it curious and wonders if there are many tricksters in Dwarven literature.. If trickster is just a different word for spy then it makes sense why both sides would trust him..

[Giantdeathrobot]

At this point we all need to re-think what we thought we knew about The Dread Wolf.  The Dalish were wrong, that much is clear, but that's what happens with stories that span ages, becoming legends.  I don't believe Solas is evil at all.

 

He still gave his orb to Corypheus, so if he's not evil, he can at the very least make bad decisions or be very ruthless.

[jellobell]

He still gave his orb to Corypheus, so if he's not evil, he can at the very least make bad decisions or be very ruthless.

I didn't see ruthless. More like desperate. It's true, he gave the orb to Corypheus even though it was very powerful. But as he said, he woke up and was too weak to open it. I think he thought that Cory would open the orb and be killed in the process, after which he could retrieve it (and let's face it, no big loss there). What he didn't expect was that whole chain of events that led to the beginning of Inquisition. In the epilogue he's very obviously devastated by what happened.

[Dobyk]

I love that banter, especially since they were sniping at each other so much before that.

 

Really, if you look at his interactions with Cole in particular, he is a very kind person. He's also veeeery guarded. He does put on a mask, I think, but the mask is his unfailing politeness. Sometimes his sorrow or his irritation shows through, but most of the time he's very even-keeled. But as we can see from the post-credits scene, and to a certain extent the romance, it looks like he's barely holding it together.

 

I think he was telling the (liberally-edited) truth. He says the gods of Arlathan weren't "gods" per se. I think they were probably just very powerful mages, or noble rulers. That means that perhaps Solas did indeed grow up as a normal young man before coming into his power. Maybe he wasn't even a ruler at all, but just the leader of the rebellion. Or a learned scholar. Remember, he says that the Elves of Arlathan were immortal, and used magic as easily as breathing. That certainly sounds godlike, but it was apparently just a result of being an elf.

 

And the whole "god of deception" business is likely rubbish. The Dalish got so much wrong that we really can't take the myths as fact. He probably got branded with that title after he sealed away the "gods" and then disappeared, leaving Arlathan to eat itself in civil war. You can imagine how such a figure would be seen as malevolent.

 

Well, one thing we know for sure is that they were revered before they were sealed away, since there are not only the dubious myths, but murials, mosaics, statues, temples..... and Fen'Harel is depicted alongside the rest, so he had his godlike status, he wasn't just a "scholar" or someone waiting to come of age to become a God, or just a rebel.... At least that's how I see it. The problem is what we consider to be "gods" exactly? Obviously it's not the metaphysical, invisible hand type of godhood, hence why he says they were not "gods". They were not invisible people with pointy ears that people prayed to. They were akin to the Tribunal in Morrowind, and perhaps even more powerful. Maybe even the progenitors of the elves themselves (elves are immortal after all, I can totally see Mythal giving birth to a hundred little elvies).

 

But I doubt  they were just powerful mages. Mythal's essence/spirit/consciousness was able to survive for thousands of years after her death/betrayal, and was able to find Flemeth. This is a powerful spirit we are talking about, a very powerful presence, and I doubt all of the ancient elves had this type of powerful soul.

What I'm curious about, beyond what went wrong with Solas' plan in ancient times is: when did the slavery thing begin? Who endorsed it, and who opposed it among the Gods (besides Fen'Harel, come on, we can't have only one good guy)? How were the Forgotten Ones involved?  Did slavery begin before or after the gods were sealed? Was it always part of elven culture? Why did Mythal, the Protector, the Goddess of justice, allow slavery into the ranks of her children, before she was killed? So many questions, so many secrets. If Bioware doesn't release a DLC with more content around Solas and what he knows, I would die of curiosity before the next DA game is released xD

 

And I'm really dying to learn more about the rest of the pantheon, as they really were. I'm tired of "Fen'Harel this, Fen'Harel that...", it was refreshing to meet Mythal. Now onto Dirthamen, pwetty pwease Bioware

[kagannpwnzgx]

I think Flemeth transfered her soul to a younger and WILLING body, possibly gaining power of the Dread Wolf (what's left of it anyway).

 

If Solas killed her then ... wtf ? She's almost iconic to the series, to be swept aside like that ? I mean seriously ? Nah, I don't believe it.

[Morroian]

I think Flemeth transfered her soul to a younger and WILLING body, possibly gaining power of the Dread Wolf (what's left of it anyway).

 

If Solas killed her then ... wtf ? She's almost iconic to the series, to be swept aside like that ? I mean seriously ? Nah, I don't believe it.

 

Both of them are iconic, I would hate for Fen'harel to be swept aside like that.

[Chevalle]

I think Flemeth tricked Dread Wolf into thinking he could take her power. She monologues at length about getting retribution at those who betrayed her (and Mythal). Dread Wolf is the trickster and betrayer. I believe that she pretended to leave herself vulnerable and then when he tried to take her power she possessed him. Remember, she says that a soul cannot be forced on someone willingly. Solas was willing because he was trying to take her soul which opened the door to outmaneuvering him. With her own power, the power of Mythal, and the power of the Dragon of Beauty it stands to reason that she could easily overpower Dread Wolf who was too weak to even use his own orb. I believe that is the entire reason she seeks out Kieran because she wanted to take the soul of the Dragon of Beauty so she could have a greater edge when Dread Wolf came for her. Flemeth has always been one step ahead of the game, we learned that in Dragon Age II with the pendant. Plus, she is a fan favorite and with the tour de force Kate Mulgrew behind her I doubt they would write her off. 

[Solas]

Dread Wolf is the trickster and betrayer

that's mostly just the Dalish mixing things up, getting things wrong and assigning blame

[InfinitePaths]

I believe Bioware intended that in that scene, Flemeth was the one who got tricked and possibly even killed.

 

It would be a HUGE twist, since every Dragon Age fan expected Flemeth to have a big important role in upcoming dragon age games.

[ApostateHumor]

I think Flemeth transfered her soul to a younger and WILLING body, possibly gaining power of the Dread Wolf (what's left of it anyway).

 

Wasn't it said (by Morrigan, if memory serves me right) that Flemeth can only transfer herself to someone related to her (daughter, grandchild, etc?). Of course, if she'd read that in the grimoire it could be wrong. And then of course there is the whole thing with Flemeth saying she can't transfer herself into a host w/o them being willing. Could be lying, could be the stipulation of /her/ magic. From what I figure, neither of them were happy, things did not go as they needed to be (clearly), so I'm more convinced that they either fused together (Flemeth said Mythal was a part of her - akin to a human and their heart - and no doubt this is similar to the whole Anders/Justice thing, if clearly on a larger/more powerful scale) more than anything. Perhaps, with a strong will - as Flemeth mostly proved (we don't know what she was like pre-Mythal absorption) - one can keep their personality mostly intact (Anders tried to but he was pretty fractured by the end) so maybe Fen'Harel/Solas is going to be the more dominant personality.

 

Of course, with that expression Solas has when he looks up (yay glowing eyes, glowing eyes never seem to be a good sign in these games), it is entirely possible that he played her. But I'm not honestly leading towards that, moreso that he once again had his full power and who doesn't like the feel of godhood? If only because Solas was unapologetically who he was (other than the whole secret god identity thing), that is - an Elf and a good person. Good people make terrible decisions and good people can do awful things because they genuinely think that it is the best option (see: the orb). I also doubt Flemeth would let herself get involved in anything that wasn't part of something that would serve her revealed goal (avenging Mythal). So there's always the possibility that she'll end up the dominant personality if that chance remains. I'm not leaning towards a particular, honestly, I'd love a good pure fusion and see that kind of being comes out of that.

 

And then there's the whole thing of soul transference vs absorption of souls. Might act a bit differently if he absorbed rather than took in, if that meaning makes sense? Converting everything, somehow, to pure power instead, but I'm not sure if that's even possible. Don't even know if there's actually a difference in this world.

 

Speaking of the gods, a small non-sequitor about how I've seen people going "well they aren't gods they're spirits" re: the pantheon. What makes a god a god? Power? They might need some, but what, imo, makes a god as such is worship. Whether spirits or super powerful mages, what is clear is that they were worshipped by the People, which in turn bestows a power of it's own, socially for sure, and in this case likely magically as they probably were also able to attain power through the rites and rituals dedicated to them through their shrines, etc. This is more speculation on my part, of course, but even if they're not the big creator god/The Maker (which didn't someone say the writers were always going to leave that vague? I hope so, not really an approachable deity imo) that doesn't mean they're not gods in their own right. Reminds me of when Sera was saying how the Maker and the elven pantheon can't exists, why not? Because it doesn't fit one's monotheistic beliefs? The elven gods might not have created the world but they certainly played a clear role in ancient times.

 

I doubt that tangent makes sense but I needed to get it out of my system.

 

At this point I'm just hoping for a full expansion or another game to get more insight on this (we learned more about Flemeth in a few short cutscenes in this game than all the other times in the past two games, I really don't think she's done yet).

[Action Cat]

The whole game was hinting at this. From the drawings in his room to the details Morrigan said about the Skyhold being Elven.

[Dobyk]

Flemeth is too iconic of the series to simply fade away or get killed. We are talking about an ancient sorceress with dragon's blood, possessed by the enraged spirit of an elven goddess. She is so important, especially when she helps heroes in the right time, in the right place, that without her the story would be bleak. She is more iconic than the dragons the game is named after! It might as well be "Flemeth Age". This is so unique, it's borderline heretical to write her off, but we also need to recognize she has appeared for so long, maybe this is her form of taking a more "passive" approach, and Solas taking the lead in the grand agenda, whatever it is. I rewatched the epilogue again and again, and all I can see is tenderness, mutual respect and sadness. I think it is very, very clear Flemeth-Mythal's essence was transferred to Solas, and the Witch actually agreed as during the whole scene she sympathized. So now we have a being whose consciousness is made up of several souls, although I reckon Solas would be the "dominant" personality. When it comes to twists like these, actually Bioware keeps it simple, I think. I don't think Flemeth was intended to be Mythal when DA:O was released, hence why we are so confused and trying to interpret her personality in Origins as "Mythal". I think the elven part came during the production of DA2, when Gaider was like "why not make Flemeth an elven goddess?" so they can mind-twist us. Anyway, I think the best compromise we can think of now is that she is, technically, alive inside Solas and just helped him get more power. She was waiting for him to appear in that scene, so I get a feeling she was expecting it.

[elikal71]

Ugh, my head is swirling after all the theories. I wanted some answers about the mythological truths since DA1. But apparently, we all are no wiser one bit. I wonder if we EVER get some answers.

[myahele]

What's interesting is that the eluvian in the epilogue had a wolf (fen harel symbol) and a dragon (mythal symbol)

[InfinitePaths]

He still gave his orb to Corypheus, so if he's not evil, he can at the very least make bad decisions or be very ruthless.

 

Oh really?

 

And how would have the world looked like if the Breach never existed?Mages and Templars slaughtering each other with no end in sight?Orlais destroyed by civil war?

 

Solas gave Corypheus the orb so he could power it up, Corypheus used it to create the breach and try to become a god.By doing this, people rose together and the Inquisition was formed.And the Inquisition did more than just stopping Corypheus, they restored peace all across thedas.

 

I'd say Thedas is better off after all of this happened.

[SwobyJ]

I think Flemeth tricked Dread Wolf into thinking he could take her power. She monologues at length about getting retribution at those who betrayed her (and Mythal). Dread Wolf is the trickster and betrayer. I believe that she pretended to leave herself vulnerable and then when he tried to take her power she possessed him. Remember, she says that a soul cannot be forced on someone willingly. Solas was willing because he was trying to take her soul which opened the door to outmaneuvering him. With her own power, the power of Mythal, and the power of the Dragon of Beauty it stands to reason that she could easily overpower Dread Wolf who was too weak to even use his own orb. I believe that is the entire reason she seeks out Kieran because she wanted to take the soul of the Dragon of Beauty so she could have a greater edge when Dread Wolf came for her. Flemeth has always been one step ahead of the game, we learned that in Dragon Age II with the pendant. Plus, she is a fan favorite and with the tour de force Kate Mulgrew behind her I doubt they would write her off. 

 

MIND BATTLE GO!!!!

[SwobyJ]

that's mostly just the Dalish mixing things up, getting things wrong and assigning blame

 

Fen tricking and betraying and all that can still be the truth.

 

Just only a part of the truth.

[Avejajed]

Maybe if they killed off Flemeth (which I doubt), it could be a Kate Mulgrew issue. It may be something completely irrelevant to the game or story itself except you can't go around easily replacing her voice which is very distinctive. I mean you never know.

 

I think it's much more likely neither Flemeth or Solas are gone and there's more to that scene than meets the eye.

 

For a character that (for me at least) flew under the radar for a good part of the lead up to release- he has surely become one of the most popular, divisive, and interesting characters. I am entranced every time he opens his mouth. 

[InfinitePaths]

I have rewatched the scene multiple times and I have come to the conclusion:

 

The mortal woman who was Flemeth, the vessel for Mythal is probably gone, she died at the scene.The human who was Flemeth was irrelevant.Though the spirit of Mythal herself...might have fused with the spirit of the Dread Wolf, that seems the most likely option.

[myahele]

How would elves know the machinations of their own gods? Flemeth\mythal roamed the world and dealt with Dalish. So she would've known their myth of fen harel and know it to be untrue.

If anything Fen Harel may be just like Hawke,; a neutral party trying to bring peace between hostile Gods then something happens and his and everyone's legends become twisted.

Ex: Mythal is goddess of protection and justice, but now we find out she wants destruction and vengeance