435 réponses à ce sujet

[MoonDrummer]

I asked Flemeth why she hadn't helped save her people (the elves) and she said that I had no idea what I ask. I thought this implied that she and then solas trapped the gods to save all the races from the thumb of higher beings

[Reznore57]

I asked Flemeth why she hadn't helped save her people (the elves) and she said that I had no idea what I ask. I thought this implied that she and then solas trapped the gods to save all the races from the thumb of higher beings

 

I also think it's the case , the codexes about the elven in Mythal temple are very different from the Dalish stories.

Some elven gods were cruel and killed people , some were corrupted by something , and they didn't just fight some other dark gods (the Forbidden Ones) they fought each others too.

[blussi]

I just need to know one thing.

 

Do you guys reckon Inquisitor or Morrigan is now safe from Mythal's grasp now that she is dead or absored by solas? (If that's the case)

Or are they going to be in under controll of Solas now that he has the soul of Mythal inside him?

 

Man it shudders me to think after all she's been through, she can end up becoming a servant for the very creature (soul?) she tried to escape from. Besides the essense of old god in her son's soul is now stolen too. Until the end Morrigan was just playing inside Flemeth's grand scheme... Although I guess that'd make The Warden and Morrigan and Kieran a happy normal family which is all I hope for really.

 

On the other hand, we have the mighty Inquisitor who by the end of the game is one of the most powerful, influential person in the entire Thedas. Just think about what The Dread Wolf can do with such servant...It really depends on what his plans are but I don't think peaceful end is waiting for Inquisitor if he/she drinks from well of sorrow.

 

OMG bioware why u do dis

[Reznore57]

It's impossible to know , Blussi.

It's unclear what Solas did to Flemeth at the end , to me it looked like he killed her and absorb her power.

If Mythal soul is destroyed , then Solas won't be able to control the one who drank from the well.

If some piece of her soul is still intact , then you or Morrigan are bound to the Dread Wolf.

 

Solas valued freedom a great deal , so he might not used an unwilling servant .But if you listen to his banter he can be ruthless if he has a clear end goal in mind.

So yeah...^^

 

The whole epilogue was made to left people hanging with questions and doubts anyway!

[blussi]

It's impossible to know , Blussi.

It's unclear what Solas did to Flemeth at the end , to me it looked like he killed her and absorb her power.

If Mythal soul is destroyed , then Solas won't be able to control the one who drank from the well.

If some piece of her soul is still intact , then you or Morrigan are bound to the Dread Wolf.

 

Solas valued freedom a great deal , so he might not used an unwilling servant .But if you listen to his banter he can be ruthless if he has a clear end goal in mind.

So yeah...^^

 

The whole epilogue was made to left people hanging with questions and doubts anyway!

 

Yeah I just wanted to know what other people would think! lol

 

Nonetheless it was a really powerful reveal. Sets some great premise for future expansion pack or DA games. 

[Ianamus]

I'm still trying to work out how this ties in to the end of The Masked Empire.

 

Felassan betrayed his master by not giving him the key to the eluvians and was apparently killed. At first I thought that it was the big bad of DA:I, but his last line to his killer "She [Briala] reminds me of you" leads me to think that it may actually have been Solas he spoke to in the fade.

[DarkSpiral]

It seems drastically out of character for the Solas we grew to know in DAI.  Not impossible, mind.  He does kill those mages during his personal quest, unless you stop him.  But that (Felassan's death) seemed spiteful to me rather than an act of rage, and Solas never demonstrated that.

[Neleothesze]

Reading some of the latest posts made me think of a couple of things.

 

Flemeth allowed her body to be destroyed by the Warden (knowing that she had sent a failsafe with Hawke). If she had really cared, she could have flown in dragon form away from the cottage when injured.

 

She could reconstruct her body from a simple piece of soul held in an amulet... therefore, the whole "taking over other people's bodies" seems to be just bull**** written in the fake grimoire and baseless tales told by the superstitious.

 

Flemeth may or may not have released Urthemiel's soul into the eluvian, perhaps with some of her own essence but perhaps the one that actually greeted Fen'harel was mostly-Mythal-and-only-slightly-Flemeth (if we assume the two cannot be wholly separated) and Flemeth will have another body remade for her at some point.

 

End result:

Fen'Harel with the power of Mythal

and

Flemeth by herself OR Flemeth with Urthemiel's soul.

 

--> Bioware gets to keep Flemeth (who seems a fan favourite) and Solas, this new character which they've made out to be important (and is slowly growing into another fan favourite).

 

If they really wanted to kill Solas off they could have had the Inquisitor do it (by making Corypheus reveal who he had gotten the orb from) or avoided the epilogue, letting us think he was just another simple companion or changed the epilogue to simply reveal his status as the Dread Wolf.

 

There's absolutely no point in killing either of these characters in the epilogue... not when a great majority of Dragon Age gamers won't even see the ending let alone notice there's an epilogue.

 

On PS4 for example only 2.7% of all players had earned the Achievement for completing the game.

Maybe that's going to rise to a 10% at some point... maybe a 30%. 

 

It would be interesting to see if we could get some PC stats as well and though I expect the completion rate to be higher... I doubt it will climb over 70%.

 

Now imagine how surprised all those players will be when they find out in an expansion or DA4 that yeah... you know.. Flemeth.. the one you meet in DA:O, DA2, DA:I... she dies... in the epilogue. Or.. remember that one guy who helped you close rifts... yeah, the bald dude you never took along cause you like Vivienne/Dorian a lot more... turns out he was some elven god.. but it doesn't even matter... because he dies twenty seconds after the reveal.

[embraceternity]

I'm still trying to work out how this ties in to the end of The Masked Empire.

 

Felassan betrayed his master by not giving him the key to the eluvians and was apparently killed. At first I though I thought that it was the big bad of DA:I, but his last line to his killer "She [Briala] reminds me of you" leads me to think that it may actually have been Solas he spoke to in the fade.

 

That's what I was thinking! At first I thought it felt out of character for Solas, but I grabbed my The Masked Empire book and read the ending again. First of all, I can see how Felassan would relate  Briala to Solas in some ways. Just like Solas, Briala does everything in her power to restore "the People." (I found it interesting that they both call the generalization of elves "the People.") Just like Solas, "the People" doesn't refer to just city elves or just Dalish elves. In fact, in both of their eyes, it could mean neither. What they wish to restore are the culture and pride that elves used to have. For elves to be what they once were, or more. Although, their definition on "what the People once were" and what exactly it means for them to "restore order" mean two different things. What Briala is doing wouldn't restore the magical glory that elves once posessed, and what Solas regrets ruining by his historical actions long ago. Thus, she means little to him.

 

Solas is polite and wise, but even he admits in the game that he has history of being arrogant, prideful and hot-headed. As we see in his personal quest in DA:I, when his personal beliefs are violated, he is not afraid to punish the people that betray him. He killed the mages (well, if you let him) who summoned his friend in DA:I because they were idiotic and tortured his friend into becoming a demon, even if they didn't realize what they'd done. Assuming that was Solas in the epilogue of The Masked Empire, he had the same sort of reason to kill Felassan. In his eyes, Felassan betrayed him, and everything he worked to accomplish by Felassan's mission. Felassan's purpose was to unlock the eluvians, but he betrayed that goal. A goal he'd been working on ever since the moment he found Briala fleeing Orlais after her parents died. In Felassan's eyes, perhaps this was another way to save the People. A way that didn't involve doing...whatever Solas' is intending to do, which I'm assuming is releasing the people he trapped. But like I said, Briala's plan isn't Solas's plan. Just like Corypheus having the orb and the orb breaking made Solas's mission harder, so did Felassan's "betrayal."

 

Of course, like I said. This is all assuming that was Solas. But I can easily picture it being him, personally.

[Capeo]

The biggest question I still have is how did the Dread Wolf seal away the rest of the elven gods and where are they?  The orb clearly had power over the veil.  Was he so powerful in his time he actually created the veil himself?  And are the rest of the gods slumbering like he was?  On this side of the veil?  Almost as though sequestering the fade from the world made them lose their power and fall into sleep.

 

You'd think if the such powerful spirits were in the fade then dreamers would encounter them yet none ever mention it which leads me to believe they're trapped in the regular world much like the old gods.  Maybe the old gods are even part of the pantheon.

 

Then what's the connection to the Black City and the taint?  Didn't Cory say the city was already black when he got there?  And what of the place the eluvians go to that isn't quite the fade?  What's the connection there?

 

I really hope Bioware didn't write themselves to far into a corner with all this stuff.

[Ajna]

I'm still trying to work out how this ties in to the end of The Masked Empire.

 

Felassan betrayed his master by not giving him the key to the eluvians and was apparently killed. At first I though I thought that it was the big bad of DA:I, but his last line to his killer "She [Briala] reminds me of you" leads me to think that it may actually have been Solas he spoke to in the fade.

He never actually says "you", people just speculate that that's what he was going to say.

[Morroian]

The biggest question I still have is how did the Dread Wolf seal away the rest of the elven gods and where are they?  

 

Somewhere via the eluvians has been speculated and makes sense. As for Felassin his master had ot be either Fen'harel or Mythal.

[Capeo]

Somewhere via the eluvians has been speculated and makes sense. As for Felassin his master had ot be either Fen'harel or Mythal.

But what of the orb? He cherished it dearly and it has power over the veil. He even mentions how wonderful it would be if the veil fell and all beings could live in harmony again. I'm leaning towards him somehow having created the veil himself and now, deeply regretting it, wanting to tear it down.

[Tootles FTW]

The Flemeth we see in DAI seemed a bit sad to me.  Her "you were never in any danger from me" line to Morrigan seemed almost like a farewell, I dunno.  I think Solas was in communication with her after he woke up, and stated that he wanted to unlock the Eluvians and awaken the sleeping "Gods" but lacked the power.  Thus he tried to find a work-around by having Corypheus wield the orb (no idea wtf he was thinking with this move, unless Cory is an undercover smooth talker?).  Personal theory: Flemeth knew that was a hella bad idea and offered that if he absorbed her soul he'd have enough power.  Solas, being the Nice Guy, refused and proceeded with Plan 1.  Cue the ending, he failed, and Flemeth offers her power up to him again.  

 

Unless given further evidence, I just don't think Solas would sneak-kill a "friend".  I think this sacrifice was in the works and he tried everything to prevent it from being necessary.

[llandwynwyn]

Flemeth reunion with Morrigan felt like closure to me. She left Morrigan go and that's removing personal conflict with the players.
I don't know what BW will do, but I'm intrigued.

[myahele]

I wonder if there are more Orbs? Dorian says he's seen Ancient Tevinter sculptures (?) Of Magisters holding orbs and asked if they may have been the same. Sola's replies vaguely and with a maybe

 

As for Flemythal, I think she learned the error of how she raised Morrigan. In her bitterness she raised Morrigan to be how she was, to teach her about the darkness of Man's heart. But after confronting her she realized how she "failed" as a mother. She saw Morrigan as a means to an end (OGB) never as a daughter.

 

Mythal is supposedly a goddess of motherhood, so this probably affected her too. Combined with the fact that Morrigan felt betrayed (just like Flemythal was) and also being a mother may have affected Flemythal greatly

[Marcus Pealeman]

Are there any translations for all the dialogue that Solas has in elvish? Especially the parts between the nightmare in the fade and Solas might be interesting

[Tootles FTW]

Are there any translations for all the dialogue that Solas has in elvish? Especially the parts between the nightmare in the fade and Solas might be interesting

 

Someone broke it down on Tumblr & in the Solas thread.  Something along the lines of "Tell me, trickster. How do you like your gift of nothing? Solas does not exist". And Solas replies "Nothing is inevitable".  Paraphrasing, here.

 

The "gift of nothing" probably refers to what Cory ended up doing with the orb.  Or, rather, what he ended up not doing.

[M-Taylor]

In the Temple of Mythal, we learn that the Dread Wolf was not a trickster God but actually the God of Rebellion. This is learnt after the Inky inspects the Wolf statue, conversation followed is something like 'Why is this statue here? It's not acceptable', and the codex following it was 'Fen'harael, god of Rebllien', paraphrased quite a bit.

 

This, in conjunction with the discovery that the Dalish are actually the product of Elven Slaves owned by Elves and Solas's entire character of 'we support the little men and hate nobility/slavery', it becomes strikingly obvious that the Dalish legends are completely false in my opinion. The Dread Wolf was not the god of trickery, but instead the God of rebellion, who hid away the other gods in attempts to give the Elven slaves a better life.

 

However when he awoke from their slumber, he discovered their fates had only worsened, thus he wants to release those Gods from their prisons (interject the need of a special orb).

 

There are still loads of plot holes, like how/why Mythal was able to escape and stuff, but really in my opinion the plot of Arlathan/Elven fate is some what obvious now. It's interesting to see how/where they go and if this is actually confirmed instead of only strongly hinted at through codexs/the Flemeth epilogue, but still. That's my take on it anyway.

 

Elven Gods = Very strong mages and/or spirits who Elven slaves worshipped as Gods. Solas captured/sealed them away to stop the exploitation, and his plan simple didn't turn out the way he thought it would. I reckon all the myths/legends of Thedas eventually will revolve around this; it seems to be that the Forgotten Ones are deeply connected to the Old Gods, thus the Tevinter Imperium indirectly worshipped the Elven Pantheon as well, and I'm willing to bet ALOT of money that Andraste was actually possessed by Mythal as well (woman who sought justice to free Thedas from the yoke of tyranny. Justice seems to be a strong theme throughout Thedas). If not Mythal, than a different Elven god that also managed to escape.

 

All da religions worship Elves, MASTER RACE JAJA /elven salute.

 

Edit:

 

But I am with an earlier poster before. While I do enjoy speculation and intruge, it's getting a little tiresome. For three games now, questions have only been replaced with even higher questions rather than concrete answers. While I don't want the Dragon Age team to reveal all the secrets at once and understand completely the need to keep plot centric information going for as long as possible, it's been 6 years (almost 7) and we're hardly better than when we started. The only question answered is what is Flemeth, and all other questions have been left vague/answered with only more questions. I too am in fear I will die before the Dragon Age plot has reached some satisfying conclusion, hahaha.

 

What I would like to find out in the next game (not all at once, I'm fine with only 3 or so concrete answers per game, but the current rate is getting frustrating)

 

How was Arlathan destroyed? (learnt that it wasn't Tevinter, replaced with new question of wtf did then?)

What was the society of ancient Elves like? (got the impression from Abelas they're kinda morbid...)

How were the Darkspawn made?

What are the Elven Gods doing?

What ARE the Elven Gods?

What was Andraste?

What is the Maker?

What is the fades relation to the religions?

Why do Elves have submissive DNA traits?

What continent do Humans/Quanari come from/why were they fleeing from it?

 

 

These are only questions from the top of my head. If I sat and thought about it for a long while, the list would be far longer, and it's getting kinda frustrating that only one question has been firmly answered throughout the entire series.

Were dwarves caught up in any of this?

[Casuist]

What was Andraste?

What is the Maker?

 

IIRC, Devs (and I'm probably vaguely recollecting word-of-Gaider) have been pretty upfront about declaring an intent not to resolve the question of the Maker's existence... and I expect the same could be said of Andraste's divinity. The ambiguity of DA religion (and therefore the demand for real faith/doubt on the part of the characters) is one of the most compelling aspects of the IP, really. It's not unique for the genre, but it isn't exactly common... and it enriches a number of plots and characters we've encountered through all 3 games. 

[snackrat]

I'm like 99% sure that wasn't Flemeth's doing. I believe that was Solas absorbing Mythal, collecting the pantheon. With the stinger in mind, many linjes from Solas (and Cole) point to him trapping the pantheon behind the eluvians, regretting it, wanting them back. Collecting Mythal from Flemeth would kill her, as Mythal is the reason she was still alive in the first place.

[Lord of Mu]

Just from what I saw while watching the Epilogue. I honestly think Flemeth sent a fragment or all of both her and Mythal's essence through the eluvian prior to the Fen'Harel showing up. She knew he would come and I suspect she knew what he intended to do. He needs more power and I think Flemeth is willing to help him out, but not at the cost of her or Mythal's essence.

 

My thoughts are that Flemeth allowed Fen'Harel to take the essence of urthemiel instead. I doubt it is anything at all, but the statues next to the Eluvian are a Wolf and a Dragon. It doesn't add any weight to my idea but it would be rather amusing if that was a subtle hint.

[Uirebhiril]

My thoughts are that Flemeth allowed Fen'Harel to take the essence of urthemiel instead. I doubt it is anything at all, but the statues next to the Eluvian are a Wolf and a Dragon. It doesn't add any weight to my idea but it would be rather amusing if that was a subtle hint.

 

Doesn't that kind of break down for playthroughs in which there is no OGB?

[Lord of Mu]

Doesn't that kind of break down for playthroughs in which there is no OGB?

 

 

Certainly, but there isn't anything to say that Mythal doesn't still send a portion of herself through the Eluvian prior to Fen'Harel arriving. Something was sent through the Eluvian and it very much looked like an essence.

[Morroian]

These are only questions from the top of my head. If I sat and thought about it for a long while, the list would be far longer, and it's getting kinda frustrating that only one question has been firmly answered throughout the entire series.

Were dwarves caught up in any of this?

 

I'm pretty happy with what we got in DAI  and the way it was answered, obliquely but still comprehensible. I'd like future games to continue giving answers in the same way so long as they cover the major lore eg. what are the old gods? where did darkspawn and the taint come from? What us lyrium exactly? What happened to Arlathan? I don't expect and nor do I want an explanation for the maker.