34 réponses à ce sujet

[Etheus Rook]

Looking at the Templar specialization, (just based off of text descriptions) it just doesn't seem to compare to other specialization options - for the warrior or for other classes.

 

"Demon Bias"

 

 

Templars are the only line (specialization or normal) in the game with conditions that explicitly only trigger against one mob type. This renders Champions of the Just one of the most useless passives in the game and severely weakens Wrath of Heaven and Blessed Blades.

 

Spell Purge

A (mostly) inferior version of the Mage's Dispel - three times the cooldown and lower utility (no allied debuff removal, no increased defense regeneration or damage buff). 600% conditional weapon damage just doesn't make up for it.

 

Maker's Will

Laughable. Just completely laughable. You may be buffing your whole party, but a 5% proc chance is pretty negligible. Plus, if you really need the weakness, just take Solas or go in the (quite useful) Battlemaster line.

 

The Last Sacrifice

Why are you dying as a Warrior often enough to make this passive relevant? Why not just go Champion and gain stupid amounts of invincibility. 

 

 

 

 

I mean, it does have redeeming qualities as well. It's got a pretty nice Focus ability along with a good AoE stun and a possibly quite useful team passive in There is No Darkness, but overall, its offerings seem pretty low compared to those of the Knight Enchanter (which has heavy synergy with the Spirit and Winter lines for great team utility) and the Champion specialization, which brings in some excellent aggro control and powerful survivability. 

 

I'm just not seeing the big benefit. I'd probably go Necromancer before this - at least Necromancer has good synergy with the Inferno line.

 

 

[eratis]

Generally Templars are geared towards fighting demons (pretty common in this game!), as you mentioned. They also have a strong niche in party buffs/support, with defensive and offensive party buff passive and active skills. Wrath of Heaven is the game's longest stun, and is the warrior specialization that can perform "cross class combos" by itself, not to mention the advantages of having both an AoE combo setup and detonator provides you with.

 

It's not the best at anything, but it's a very solid spec that sits neatly between the defensive extreme (Champion) and offensive extreme (Reaver).

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

100% uptime damage buff
10% resist for whole party
Weaken debuff for whole party

Party wide dmg buff vs demon
AOE dispel
AOE stun
Full heal and massive dmg boost when your templar dies
Focus ability that gives the whole team stamina  / mana regen, guard and damage resistance

 

I mean really... this is what you are whining about? I'm playing HC mode and I'm planning to use Cassandra as my 2-H dps / controller /w horn of valor. 

Whats next? KE need a buff?

[Etheus Rook]

100% uptime damage buff
10% resist for whole party
Weaken debuff for whole party

Party wide dmg buff vs demon
AOE dispel
AOE stun
Full heal and massive dmg boost when your templar dies
Focus ability that gives the whole team stamina  / mana regen, guard and damage resistance

 

I mean really... this is what you are whining about? I'm playing HC mode and I'm planning to use Cassandra as my 2-H dps / controller /w horn of valor. 

Whats next? KE need a buff?

 

You could literally do this with any class of any balance level in any game of this type.

 

Why, let's do it with the class that currently has the worst reputation - the Necromancer.

 

Long-duration AoE fear that does damage while reducing armor? That's three effects in one skill!

15% damage bonus against feared targets

Every kill restores health and mana while giving you a 20% damage buff

Long-duration, high damage mark that creates a pet spirit out of the foe's corpse if they die.

When you die, you still fight for 10 seconds and have cost-free spells.

High damage mark that causes the target to explode on death - in a chain reaction.

Focus ability that slows all opposing attack and movement speeds to nothing for a high duration.

 

 

I, mean, really. That all sounds really when put on paper like that. Why would anyone even complain about it? Oh wait, because a class is more than a list, and some concepts (like single-mob-type skills) are profoundly flawed when the rest of the game does not function that way.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

You could literally do this with any class of any balance level in any game of this type.

 

Why, let's do it with the class that currently has the worst reputation - the Necromancer.

 

Long-duration AoE fear that does damage while reducing armor? That's three effects in one skill!

15% damage bonus against feared targets

Every kill restores health and mana while giving you a 20% damage buff

Long-duration, high damage mark that creates a pet spirit out of the foe's corpse if they die.

When you die, you still fight for 10 seconds and have cost-free spells.

High damage mark that causes the target to explode on death - in a chain reaction.

Focus ability that slows all opposing attack and movement speeds to nothing for a high duration.

 

 

I, mean, really. That all sounds really when put on paper like that. Why would anyone even complain about it? Oh wait, because a class is more than a list, and some concepts (like single-mob-type skills) are profoundly flawed when the rest of the game does not function that way.

Well my plan is to use Cassandra as 2H dps templar on my current nightmare run with no tac cam. We will see who is right. I suspect that Templar wont disappoint. Not saying you are wrong though, not yet. Need the testing done first

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The thing with the Templar is that it is a specialization geared toward a very specific type of enemy. As such, in my opinion, it should not be a specialization that the Inquisitor takes since the Inquisitor has to deal with more than demons. 

[Boboverlord]

No, Templar isn't only powerful against demons/mages. I play 2H Templar and I also bring Cassandra into my party as well for double "Spell Purge" insane damage. Do you know how to use Detonators right? Since 2H warrior's weapon damage is vastly higher than mage's, that's the same for Templar's Spell Purge vs. mage's Dispel.

 

I made Cassandra (SnS tanker build) to use Spell Purge against non-demon frozen enemies, and the damage is as high as Archer's Full draw damage (1000-1500 on level 10, I have done 2500 on crit vs. demons). And you can imagine what will happen if I use 2H Templar instead... also Templar burst damage build requires you to put 2-4 points in Templar skill tree only. The only builds I know to outperform this Templar damage are pure DPS Reaver (with almost no investment in other trees), burst dmg boss killer Tempest (most said Archer is the best but I will experiment on dual wield Tempest), and full melee DPS KE. Oh yes, I will try building 4 of them in my party lol.

 

The problem of Templar is its heavy reliance on Detonator combo for cheap stamina to dmg ratio. So it's not good against all-resist bosses.

[themageguy]

After certain conversations with Cassandra, i personally think that Templar should have been Seeker.

It would mean that our abilities would effect demons, mages AND Templars. Three common enemy types in the game.

And it wouldn't require my inquisitor to be addicted to lyrium. Id just need a vigil and contact my faith

[themageguy]

But has anyone been able to make a good templar build?

Visually, the abilities look beautiful....however....

[nunrigger]

The templar dispel is the most powerful detonator ability I've come across in the game... It's an eldritch detonation so you can combo it off wrath of heaven for a 5000 AOE damage.

 

So besides fighting bosses(which dispel is very good for anyway) templar is super friggin strong.

[themageguy]

The templar dispel is the most powerful detonator ability I've come across in the game... It's an eldritch detonation so you can combo it off wrath of heaven for a 5000 AOE damage.

So besides fighting bosses(which dispel is very good for anyway) templar is super friggin strong.

does that combo work against all enemies or just demons?

how do you build your templar / Cassandra?

[nunrigger]

That combo works against all enemies who can be stunned.

 

I built mine on the left side of the tree, I don't like the 15% damage buff because it takes a skill slot and needs to be manually kept up every 15 seconds which I tend to forget. The upgrade on wrath of heaven is worth it, 2 seconds extra stun is very good. The upgrade on dispel is good against barrier enemies, mostly those annoying ranged demon ghosts and not much else, so if you want to spend a skill there, go ahead not mandatory though.

[nunrigger]

Don't know how to edit...

 

Anyway the damage buff forgetfulness and skill slot requirement is not an issue on Cassandra however, just make it a "preferred" skill.

[Boboverlord]

The templar dispel is the most powerful detonator ability I've come across in the game... It's an eldritch detonation so you can combo it off wrath of heaven for a 5000 AOE damage.
 
So besides fighting bosses(which dispel is very good for anyway) templar is super friggin strong.

I got shocked by yesterday when I use 2H Templar instead of SnS one. Spell Purge on a stunned wolf and BAM! 4300.

[Kozen117]

100% uptime damage buff
10% resist for whole party
Weaken debuff for whole party

Party wide dmg buff vs demon
AOE dispel
AOE stun
Full heal and massive dmg boost when your templar dies
Focus ability that gives the whole team stamina  / mana regen, guard and damage resistance

 

I mean really... this is what you are whining about? I'm playing HC mode and I'm planning to use Cassandra as my 2-H dps / controller /w horn of valor. 

Whats next? KE need a buff?

 

 That's actually incredibly weak.

 

Let me explain:

 

1) 100% uptime damage buff. +15% extra damage against demons? Bleh. There are mobs OTHER than demons out there. You can have this up 100% of the time, but you'll only need it for 1/3 of the game.

 

2) 10% resistance for whole party. Meh. This is okay... The number is still too low in my opinion.

 

3) Weaken debuff for whole party. What?

 

4) Party wide dmg buff vs demon. Yeah you already said that, and like I said, you only need this for like 1/3 of the game. The other classes have great damage against ANY enemy. The Templars are limited to fighting demons to display their full power.

 

5) AoE Dispel. Mage's dispel is better. If you're going to brag about the 600% damage from the Templar's Dispel, don't. 600% from a situational dispel is pathetic. Look at the Mage's Fire Mine ability. It has 1600% damage, and you can increase that with the 2 passive buffs totaling over +3200% damage. 

 

6) AoE Stun. Again, Mage's are better at stuns. The rift mage, lightning tree and ice tree can keep enemies stunned easily. Your claim of ONE single 'stun' is nothing in comparison.

 

7) Full heal and massive dmg boost when your templar dies. REALLY? This is a GOOD thing? How about you DON'T die? Isn't that better than relying on your own death to benefit the party? You want a full heal? Check out the Knight Enchanter. KEs are practically invincible and have a focus ability that revives AND heals all teammates. PFt.

 

8) I'm not even gonna argue anymore since it's so clear that your points are negligible.

[Geth Supremacy]

I don't know if op is just an idiot...or a troll who made a new name/account but wow.

[Geth Supremacy]

I got shocked by yesterday when I use 2H Templar instead of SnS one. Spell Purge on a stunned wolf and BAM! 4300.

don't tell them how to play the templar.  once they actually learn something about the game before talking about balance or trolling some people will take them seriously.  thats a dangerous combo.

[Basheda]

An templar with +25/50 stamina neck can warcry (+20% damage), horn of valor (+50% damage), wrath of heavens and spellpurge... everything chained together in 5 seconds and the explosions from wrath/spellpurge will do between 5-9k non crit with W&S if you also stack a little bit attack. I have not tried this as an 2h templar but I guess the explosions are in the 10k+ range. The numbers from wrath/spellpurge are higher than the numbers from fire mines. Fire mines are better if you face fire-vulnerable creatures, but you can consider the power of wrath/spellpurge. Now add Pull of the Abyss and you kill any trash group in 5 seconds.

 

You get also an very strong tank which adds +10% passive damage, +20% damage from taunt and +50% damage from horn of valor to your entire party damage. Dragons will melt fast if your other 3 teamates can deal at least some damage.

 

Calling templars weak is a little bit misleading.

[Anelyn77]

Keep in mind when you build / gear your Templar, that going pure defensive and stacking CON won't do you much good. You need STR or Willpower to get stuff going. You will reach a point where your armor alone is enough to mitigate most melee / ranged physical damage, at which point % melee / ranged def ain't so appealing anymore, instead bumping your str / willpower will give better results.

[draken-heart]

I thought Ser spelled out the Templar perfectly:

 

*Does best Ser impression*: The benefit is control.

 

*back to normal mode*: I thought that was what the Templar's main focus should be, getting that stun and using it for extra CC.

[Bhaal]

I'm sure WoH followed with Spell Purge doesn't detonate on normal enemies. I tried few days ago, againts some undead, if i'm remembering correctly.

[ICSM]

The problem with templar, IMO, isn't that he is weak, per se, but that his opportunity cost is too high. As a tank, he is outclassed by Champion, because To the Death+ is broken good, and as a damage dealer, he is outclassed by quite a few rogue and maige builds. That said, a 2h Templar does make a pretty good Battlefield controller offtank if you want to.

It's like the Berserk in Origins: if you do want to use one, you will be playing sub optimally, but since playing optimally isnt required at any time of the game, even in nightmare, you'll do mostly fine.
.

[lunatyyk]

Oh my god Templar underpowered? You guys are sick, and you base that opinion on skill description? Let me state this clesrly: Wrath of Heavens followed by Spell Purge WORKS AS AOE STUN INTO HUGE BURST DMG ON ALL TYPES OF ENEMIES. Basic combo excluding buffs is Bull charge upgraded which makes ur skills cost 0 for 6 s into Wrath of Heaven and Spell Purge. It hits around 10k in late game for free and is an AoE attack. If u use templar dmg buff spell upgraded it reduces cd of Wrath of Heaven and spell purge cd by0.5 s with every attack you make. Templar is great class and you ppl should read about detonators or actually play the class before making posts how bad smth is

[xelander]

Oh my god Templar underpowered? You guys are sick, and you base that opinion on skill description? Let me state this clesrly: Wrath of Heavens followed by Spell Purge WORKS AS AOE STUN INTO HUGE BURST DMG ON ALL TYPES OF ENEMIES. Basic combo excluding buffs is Bull charge upgraded which makes ur skills cost 0 for 6 s into Wrath of Heaven and Spell Purge. It hits around 10k in late game for free and is an AoE attack. If u use templar dmg buff spell upgraded it reduces cd of Wrath of Heaven and spell purge cd by0.5 s with every attack you make. Templar is great class and you ppl should read about detonators or actually play the class before making posts how bad smth is

All true, but what about bosses that cannot be stunned?

[draken-heart]

All true, but what about bosses that cannot be stunned?

 

If there are adds, stun them, pure and simple. The boss can be taken down by regular abilities.

 

I believe the Templar is best when CONTROLLING the battlefield, not straight up tanking or DPS.