Questa discussione ha avuto 330 risposte

[HeroxMatt]

1.            Archer + Poison (w/Stealth) + Assassin

Another viable option because of the Poison Passives: Looked Like It Hurt and Cheap Shot. Both give +3 Cunning, which amounts to roughly 4% Crit Chance. In addition, Looked Like It Hurt restores 10 Stamina with each Crit, meaning your Stealth + Full Draw/Hidden Blades/Long Shot strategy becomes more viable, with less basic attacks. Cheap Shotthen Sunders enemy armour. Using Stealth grants automatic Critical Hit, making Cheap Shot from the Poison Tree +Gaps in Armour (25% Armour Penetration) from the Assassin tree + Any attack a very likely chance to Sunder and Penetrate Armour.

 

 You will have to get Caltrops to access these Passives so put the Skill Point here, instead of Easy to Miss. Caltrops does not need the upgrade. Throwing Blades is a viable option for good damage, however, you must be aware that this build still requires Stealth from the Subterfuge tree, so be aware of ability allocation. Furthermore, Throwing Blades(100%+) is outdone by Hidden Blades (300%+).

[HeroxMatt]

Archer + Subterfuge + Tempest

 

Tempest allows for more roving and control of the battlefield, instead of Assassin’s Stealth build. For this, you won’t require Stealth as much nor will it be your main source of damage output. It still grants the 50% DMG bonus as well as letting you get out of fights, as an upgraded Ice Flask draws aggro. (Though you won’t be using this as much as the other two, Fire Flask and Lightning Flask.)

 

In the Tempest Skill Tree, you want all of the Flasks and these Passives in particular: Killer’s Alchemy and Ride the Storm.  Fury of the Storm grants 10% DMG Bonus once your Stamina is lowered which won’t be happening often, considering Fire Flask removes cooldown for all abilities, while Flaskmaster is better as a general ability, as opposed to being directly related to Tempest’s success. Flaskmaster gives you +1 to Potions and grants 25% of not activating them when used. As an Archer, this makes for a very useful DPS tool as it can increase your output or, with Stealth, you can use Beeeeees with no disruption on the battlefield.

 

Flask of Ice does not need to be upgraded.

 

 Ride the Storm is also useful, as it increases the duration of all Elixirs. With Fire Flask, you then get 8 seconds of Zero Cooldown Abilities. The difference is casting approximately 2 Long Shot (without Ride the Storm) and 3/4 Long Shot(with Ride the Storm), as animation speed is roughly two seconds.  

 

In Subterfuge, in addition to Stealth, get Sleep and Mercy Killing. This is because, once using Lightning Flask you can run around the battlefield with little to no interruption. It works like Haste, so you’ll be able to race over to enemies and cast Sleep, followed up by attacking with general attacks until Fire Flask and Long Shot/Full Draw are available. Alternatively, you can cast Sleep on one enemy, while attacking the other, which will give your allies reprieve.

 

A good tactic is: Lighntning Flask + Sleep on your target. This will reduce your Stamina. Fire Flask + Full Draw, as this will get the benefit from Tempest’s Passive Fury of the Storm (10%), Archer’s Passive First Blood (15%) and the Full Draw’s 800% DMG on full health as well as the Auto-Crit from Mercy Killing. In addition, an upgraded Full Draw will knockout the opponent, putting them in the same state as Sleep. You could use Full Draw again, as it has no cooldown, to finish off the opponent and get another Auto-Crit from your Mercy Killing Passive.

[HeroxMatt]

I've updated the first post with links to individual posts, as that will assist in directing readers to the appropriate Build.

 

I've also linked good posts by other users on this thread, notable Ishten and his DW + Tempest build.

 

If others would like to contribute and add to the thread with guides or builds of their own, feel free and I'll link it in the first post.

 

I find it has a good mix of single unit damage potential as well as group. The throwing blades help spread out the poison. I plan on upgrading that, and getting the skill that increases damage after using flasks by 15%. The knockout powder and twin fangs are the bread and butter while waiting for fire flask to cool down. Stealth is good for getting away, may upgrade that as well.

 

But in the end fire flask with mark of the rift x 2 is just intense.

 

 

@cnewton - do you use Flask of Lightning at all? If not, that's very interesting to test making the most of alternate abilities instead of focusing on the other Flasks and the DMG Bonus from using them one after the other. I ask because I think Knockout Gas + Flask of Lightning could be good.

 

Also, I don't like Evasion primarily because your warriors are drawing aggro and Mages with Barrier casting can alleviate the damage you're taking. Evasion becomes a bit of a waste, although as you said, that additional 300% DMG is good. Over all, it's too much to invest for 50% Armour Penetration.

[cn3wton]

I've updated the first post with links to individual posts, as that will assist in directing readers to the appropriate Build.

 

I've also linked good posts by other users on this thread, notable Ishten and his DW + Tempest build.

 

If others would like to contribute and add to the thread with guides or builds of their own, feel free and I'll link it in the first post.

 

 

@cnewton - do you use Flask of Lightning at all? If not, that's very interesting to test making the most of alternate abilities instead of focusing on the other Flasks and the DMG Bonus from using them one after the other. I ask because I think Knockout Gas + Flask of Lightning could be good.

 

Also, I don't like Evasion primarily because your warriors are drawing aggro and Mages with Barrier casting can alleviate the damage you're taking. Evasion becomes a bit of a waste, although as you said, that additional 300% DMG is good. Over all, it's too much to invest for 50% Armour Penetration.

 

Being level 14 I find that trying to go deeper into the tree just ends up hurting my damage output. So I only take flask of fire for now. I can say without a doubt that poisoned blades + throwing daggers + fire flask is an extremely viable option.

 

I use the knockout gas with fangs as my "waiting for fire flask" moves.

 

I have played around with the bonus from using them one after another, and the issue is that you have to spend so many points to obtain it. Its definitely a late game option in my opinion. 

[Blackstork]

I have comments about DW + SUBTERFUGE + POISON+ TEMPEST

I think that keeping knock powder is better than twin fangs on your bar. Why? think party combos. they are massive. This thing not only provides you CC in times you are on your CDs, but also provides way to rupture or nightmare for your teammates. You have already shadow strike, and you better use it because it does reduce countdowns when upgraded, and is detonator, same like twin fangs. I really do not see reason to have Twin Fangs over Knockout Powder on your bar. Combo damage from powder is more than damage from twin fangs. I know there might be a reason to have another precision detonator for shatter, but alas numerous mages in party comp you suggested also require use for their detonators. The perfect thing with ranged abilities and detonators that they are ranged and actually do not influence your movement patterns in order to use them/detonate.

[Boboverlord]

1.            Archer + Poison (w/Stealth) + Assassin
Another viable option because of the Poison Passives: Looked Like It Hurt and Cheap Shot. Both give +3 Cunning, which amounts to roughly 4% Crit Chance. In addition, Looked Like It Hurt restores 10 Stamina with each Crit, meaning your Stealth + Full Draw/Hidden Blades/Long Shot strategy becomes more viable, with less basic attacks. Cheap Shotthen Sunders enemy armour. Using Stealth grants automatic Critical Hit, making Cheap Shot from the Poison Tree +Gaps in Armour (25% Armour Penetration) from the Assassin tree + Any attack a very likely chance to Sunder and Penetrate Armour.
 
 You will have to get Caltrops to access these Passives so put the Skill Point here, instead of Easy to Miss. Caltrops does not need the upgrade. Throwing Blades is a viable option for good damage, however, you must be aware that this build still requires Stealth from the Subterfuge tree, so be aware of ability allocation. Furthermore, Throwing Blades(100%+) is outdone by Hidden Blades (300%+).

I like this since I'll have Cole as an archer, and I found that a debuff to reduce armor/ sunder effect is very important in hard boss fight. But to get all needed skills I must at least get to level 20+...

[HeroxMatt]

Yeah most of these are geared toward lste game builds . To start, i would suggest building yohr character with a grewter focus on the flasks first, mainly Fire, and beonce you get Full Draw, then go into Poison. The dmg output is still tere, but you will miss the crit passive advsntages. However, you will nkt need this in the early game.

I have comments about DW + SUBTERFUGE + POISON+ TEMPEST
I think that keeping knock powder is better than twin fangs on your bar. Why? think party combos. they are massive. This thing not only provides you CC in times you are on your CDs, but also provides way to rupture or nightmare for your teammates. You have already shadow strike, and you better use it because it does reduce countdowns when upgraded, and is detonator, same like twin fangs. I really do not see reason to have Twin Fangs over Knockout Powder on your bar. Combo damage from powder is more than damage from twin fangs. I know there might be a reason to have another precision detonator for shatter, but alas numerous mages in party comp you suggested also require use for their detonators. The perfect thing with ranged abilities and detonators that they are ranged and actually do not influence your movement patterns in order to use them/detonate.

that's a good point the class combos between two mages would be good. I'll edit it asap.

[Blackstork]

Another point you should state in that build.

As you mentioned correctly benefit of poison the thing it can be applied only once to each target for one duration. 

that means if you do not want to spend your focus you should start with Frostie. 

Frostie will be shorted because it is starter flask, take aggro and shatters from party/ shadow blade, you do not need your stealth yet. (you can activate it from stealth using stealth for better positioning)

Once frostie out actiuvate fire, activate poison, and start to attack EACH SINGLE target with your posioned flank attack. Becvause you are having poison and using fire flask no cd flank attack you can attack up to 5-6 different targets, and each one will be poisoned! (assuming they are all close then no movement required at all.

Then get lightning flask once fire expired , use your cc powder with team mage detonator, and just continue to attack and re-poison your weapons once it is off (poison should be off-cd because you activated it during fire flask,

[HeroxMatt]

What are your thoughts on Throwing Knives? They can muktiple targets, right, with Poison you can spread it faster. It requires more investment into the Poison Tree, but the passives on that side are better anyway, so it is an extra two skills.

[Blackstork]

well, thinking it the way that you can get cheap shot anyways , cause you have spare points, but knifes are reundant, because fire flask flank attack is much much better way to spread poison , while dealing serious damage and maintaining stealth. So knockout poweder still better, because it is combo disable. You will sunder stuff anyways if you just take those passives. Spreading poison while not standing still , and vulnerable to Grasps or CC and whatever could cc you, and by zapping all over battlefield in stealth is much better option imo. You better take 2 passives for those 2 knife points or unlock and take one passive for this build.

Stealth All right wing including SS upgrade, left starting passive, poison - poison early with upgrade, right wing later at end  (after Tempest ree completed) to take those passives, DW tree Flank attack and passives after it, probably passives after Twin Fangs at later game after Tempest treee completed, Full tempest tree.

Better to start with Stealth upgraded /Poison + length passive/Flank attack  > stealth right tree with SS and KP and all passives there , You should be 11 lvl . passives after Flank attack till Tempest unlocked if you take Tempest later, but better to run with points unspent though and invest in Tempest right away. Then focus on Tempest tree till finished.

[Boboverlord]

Note on Tempest combo: Flask of Fire + Shadow Strike. It is bugged that Flask of Fire doesn't work with any skill on cd. So DO NOT use Shadow Strike before Flask of Fire. I don't know whether the others have the same problem as mine.

[Blackstork]

Note on Tempest combo: Flask of Fire + Shadow Strike. It is bugged that Flask of Fire doesn't work with any skill on cd. So DO NOT use Shadow Strike before Flask of Fire. I don't know whether the others have the same problem as mine.

its know stuff and part of mechanics i think. If your skill on CD you can not use it on fire flask, so you need to save everything you want to use on Fire Flask . With that my build above you have things to use during frosty, other things during fire, and certain during lighting. Normally SS with that build used during Frosty if you plan on spreading poison , or during first stage of fire to get more shatters. 

[xelander]

Is poison damage affected by armor rating?

Also, what's your experience with the Archer's Lance upgrade? Do you get enough situations where it is applicable?

[Blackstork]

As far as i know posion damage is elemental damage (or kinda like that) and is not affected by armor same as fire, ice and shock.

[Boboverlord]

Is poison damage affected by armor rating?

Also, what's your experience with the Archer's Lance upgrade? Do you get enough situations where it is applicable?

 

I think it isn't affected since I saw poison dmg is rather large compared to what 25% weapon dmg should be. Archer's Lance is useful with Stealth and little bit of positioning. Not that the dmg bonus is on OMG level though, just "expectedly impressive".

[Novadove]

obviously people who play rogue archer has no idea that artifice is the most underrated and overlooked spec.

 

bring another crit archer and see your skills CD so fast that it put assassin and tempest fire and lightning flask to shame.

 

the real gem of artifice is not the useless traps but the synergy of the crit chance passive that reset ur cd by 0.5 sec every time ANY party member crits.

[cn3wton]

well, thinking it the way that you can get cheap shot anyways , cause you have spare points, but knifes are reundant, because fire flask flank attack is much much better way to spread poison , while dealing serious damage and maintaining stealth. So knockout poweder still better, because it is combo disable. You will sunder stuff anyways if you just take those passives. Spreading poison while not standing still , and vulnerable to Grasps or CC and whatever could cc you, and by zapping all over battlefield in stealth is much better option imo. You better take 2 passives for those 2 knife points or unlock and take one passive for this build.

Stealth All right wing including SS upgrade, left starting passive, poison - poison early with upgrade, right wing later at end  (after Tempest ree completed) to take those passives, DW tree Flank attack and passives after it, probably passives after Twin Fangs at later game after Tempest treee completed, Full tempest tree.

Better to start with Stealth upgraded /Poison + length passive/Flank attack  > stealth right tree with SS and KP and all passives there , You should be 11 lvl . passives after Flank attack till Tempest unlocked if you take Tempest later, but better to run with points unspent though and invest in Tempest right away. Then focus on Tempest tree till finished.

 

I dont think that fire flask flank attack is "much much better".

 

First off there is a glitch with flank attack which I am sure will be fixed but I have flown through people before.

 

Second how many times can you use flank attack during fire flask? 

[Flash081]

Here is my build for a Dual Wield Tempest Rogue.

 

It's hilariously fun, has a lot of utility, and (best of all) does massive damage.

 

Take a second to check it out, ask questions, and tell me what you think!

[Ganen]

http://forum.bioware...oles-nightmare/

 

been testing alot of rogue builds (always archer cuz nightmare = melee rogue is good for decorating the floor)

 

so far nothing has beat the dps power of the archer assassin sabotage rogue I mentioned in that thread.

he tears through any normal mob in one rotation or less, and does beatly single target dps to lieutenant mobs and bosses.

[HeroxMatt]

obviously people who play rogue archer has no idea that artifice is the most underrated and overlooked spec.

 

bring another crit archer and see your skills CD so fast that it put assassin and tempest fire and lightning flask to shame.

 

the real gem of artifice is not the useless traps but the synergy of the crit chance passive that reset ur cd by 0.5 sec every time ANY party member crits.

 

I don't underrate it, I just haven't had as much chance to test it with my PC as the others. I've been primarily doing that through Varric. I can definitely see how this would be effective, though, once looking at the Passives:

 

Poison:

Looked Like It Hurt: 10 Stamina Restore on Crit

Cheap Shot: Sundered Armour on Crit

 

Artificer:

Opportunity Knocks: CD Reduction: O.5 Sec on Crit

And Take Them Down: Crit Chance Bonus 5%

Tricks of the Trade: Damage Bonus 10%, Duration Bonus 10%

• Couple this with Knockout Powder and the Crit Chance Passive, Mercy Killing and you'll be getting heaps of Stamina, as the Sleep effect will last longer.

It's a shame the Archer Tree doesn't have any Crit Bonus Passives. This build could also work with the DW Tree, as they have:

 

DW:

Dance of Death: 50 Stamina on Kill

Unforgiving Chain: +1% on attack

Sneak Attack: 2X Base Critical Hit Chance

[draken-heart]

I have a female Qunari Rogue (dual wield), and need help deciding on a Specialization. Which ever one I choose, I probably will not use the focus ability in the tree, because I like the Inquisitor tree ability. Whichever one is the one I decide on, I will have a backstory ready for it.

[Bombadyl]

I don't underrate it, I just haven't had as much chance to test it with my PC as the others. I've been primarily doing that through Varric. I can definitely see how this would be effective, though, once looking at the Passives:

 

Poison:

Looked Like It Hurt: 10 Stamina Restore on Crit

Cheap Shot: Sundered Armour on Crit

 

Artificer:

Opportunity Knocks: CD Reduction: O.5 Sec on Crit

And Take Them Down: Crit Chance Bonus 5%

Tricks of the Trade: Damage Bonus 10%, Duration Bonus 10%

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this is working for you, as I went with a basic setup as shown here, but am about to respec to tune it a little better.   I noticed there wasn't a lot of information or testing on artificer yet, as most folks are heading to assassin and tempest. (archers seem to be typically one of the lesser played roles in DA, generally)  Granted I'm a very casual player (really old guy) and rely heavily on the synergy of my crew, but instead of using Varric, I am using Bull due to some weapon and armor arrangements, he crits fairly regularly and does some insane damage, but like most rogues, he is a bit of a glass shell.  On most high dragon encounters, I end up at the end with Blackwell, who almost cannot die, tanking and taunting (seen his shield bash do over 1800k fairly regularly) while I shred them from afar.  Although I think my best crit hit has only been 2900k so far.

 

I am curious about the upgraded Lance, not for mobs but for high dragons specifically, as I'm wondering that since there are 5 focus points (legs and head) to hit them, if striking more than one of those is possible, if so, it might be more viable, otherwise I bypass it.

 

Also, haven't seen a great deal of mention on accessories, as I just picked up an outstanding flanking ring for 20% total damage that I'm going to play with for a while.  Also a little bummed I'm not seeing any higher tier arm and leg pieces that add stats like the tier one scout pieces do. 

 

Anyway, great input here from folks and after reading, I may have to play around a bit more with the assassin line. 

[Novadove]

the thing with sera is, she's a tempest. in 3rd person view, looking at her using lightning flask, she puts out about 8 shots in 1 sec. those crits will refresh your own skill CD on top of the tank and the mage's crit.

 

all of your skill CD is refreshed by 0.5 sec with every hit that is a critical from any one of your party member. you can have varric and a mage doing criticals which still works fine but sera's lightning flask will refresh your skill CD especially full draw extremely fast.

 

on average, I am doing 1 full draw every few sec with 5k-7k each hit not to mention spamming explosive and long shot. the only down side is your stamina cant catch up. during skill down time, my character requires 2 normal shots before spamming skill whereby tempest requires 6 shots at least.

(I was able to sustain this haste build later on when I found an armor that has "reduce 20% stamina/mana for skills")

 

Tempest lightning flask is good for single enemy. during cool down, all skills CD are back to normal which means you cant one shot enemies and firing at vanilla rate.

 

well, artificer requires specific party build which is why it is not that popular. tempest and assassin are "selfish" builds whereby the skills are geared towards your own character but artificer buffs the party and opens the gate to a speed build.

 

you can only imagine hail of arrows spam =)

[Novadove]

by the way I skipped a lot of details on tempest whereby one can lightning flask follow by fire flask (spam skills > spam again without the need for stamina)

but once that's out, u gonna wait for quite some time before the flasks are usable again.

 

(it is during this window, artificer consistently firing all skills at a constant pace due to other party members criting on mob refreshing your cd)

 

Also, it is arguable that tempest skill lightning flask for your character puts you in slow time and that drags the fight even longer in real life. if only the main avatar's lightning flask animation is like sera which is not possible. heh 

 

tempest archer need to watch and time skill usage sparingly whereas artificer ignores those and spam skills.

 

lastly, I am not really going into the numbers but I tried out tempest and artificer for 50+ hrs on 2 different games and finally concluded that artificer is easier and more fun and deadly compare to tempest.

 

Try it out seriously. you wont regret.

[Bombadyl]

well, artificer requires specific party build which is why it is not that popular. tempest and assassin are "selfish" builds whereby the skills are geared towards your own character but artificer buffs the party and opens the gate to a speed build.

 

you can only imagine hail of arrows spam =)

 

For my own playing style, the idea of a party engaging is what I find most enjoyable.  I've been reading some of the posts on the forum while waiting for the turkey to get done (there is no .5 crit CD reduction here) some folks seem to enjoy having a character that opens a portal to an alternate universe allowing some God like force of power descend into their character and crush a high dragon within 20 seconds, so to each their own. ie: When I finished the dragon at the storm coast with my archer as the last breathing character with only a third of their health and no pots remaining, thinking I just got my monies worth from that one battle that took nearly 25 minutes since it forced me to think more tactically than any game I've played so far.

 

I admit I haven't really looked at Sera's flasking for crits, again, a slight reluctance to diverge from S&B, 2H, Mage, Rogue setup, but I am open to seeing 5-7k hits... ftw!    I also noticed somehwere that there is a bow (Griffon?) that fires two shots at once, so curious if they count as a single 'hit' or two individual (animation glitter), as it makes my head swim at the possibily, though not getting my hopes up.   Speaking of lost hopes, Dalish medium has no slots...Ooof