277 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolven_Soul]

Yeah, I really miss the tactics from Origins as well.  It was one of the things that made Dragon Age what it was.  It made absolutely no sense whatsoever to take it away.  I loved tweaking my people on how and when they used their abilities.  Why do games create such wonderful systems, only to take them away or dumb them down in sequels?

[lichg]

meh.. the only time someone from bioware commented was in that no banter bug thread... why refuse to say anything?? even when i aske allan in the pc concerns thread he said he wants to focus on pc issues.. i get that but throw me a bone here, something.. if this keeps up the next dragon age game would be an action game with like 3 abilities per class and no behavior/tactics menu at all.. or an mmo. 

[jjarrellj]

I was, frankly, astonished when I saw the *cough* tactics functions in DAI. This is a joke, right? I missed something and the rest of the tactical choices are.... *searches*. Nope. That's it.

 

Unbelievable and a huge disappointment. Please say there is a patch coming. 

[hau101]

Losing the tactics/behavior that we had in DA:O or even DA2 is beyond my understanding. It was a HUUUGE part of why I enjoyed combat in those games. Here, it might as well not exist! I can't tell my rogue to do X when enemy is stunned, have my tank taunt someone attacking X ally, cast X skill to finish off an enemy below X health, do x when they're in melee range, etc etc etc. It's nearly a game-breaker for me and for such an otherwise lovely designed game so far, I have to wonder wtf the combat designers were thinking. All the time spent on voice acting, sound, graphics, writing, and we get THIS for combat in a TACTICAL COMBAT RPG?????!!!  I'm never this hard on any game, not even ME3's ending, but this is something that wrecks gamers' confidence in the company. I hope to god they patch this within a month when I'm still playing it...

[Razir-Samus]

I dont wanna send this thread off topic, and google will tell you everything you need but bottom line is it was just less on everything, rushed, dumbed down version of origins.

that's why i asked you why... there were differences, sure, perhaps they did cut some corners, but it was still a lengthy tactics based action rpg... nowhere near enough negatives to get the backlash it got, i enjoyed the game, i didn't see the big deal with re-using the larger locations and some of the small caves, how couldn't you? the story was based where it was based, the locations had different uses over time, it makes sense!

[Ursulawinn]

Can we get a screenshot or two of these new, truncated tactics menus for those of us who were waiting for the first patch before buying?

[K3m0sabe]

meh.. the only time someone from bioware commented was in that no banter bug thread... why refuse to say anything?? even when i aske allan in the pc concerns thread he said he wants to focus on pc issues.. i get that but throw me a bone here, something.. if this keeps up the next dragon age game would be an action game with like 3 abilities per class and no behavior/tactics menu at all.. or an mmo. 

 

Because modern Bioware games are all about npc's, interacting with them, romancing them, having sex with them. So not having party banter is a big issues, while having a proper tactics system or even tooltips is considered secondary at best. 

[lichg]

Honestly? I cant remember all the flaws since i literally blocked off the whole experience. Now, i quit b34 the patch that made it more tactical so i might remember it worse than you but it was bad.
also forgive me if i repeat myself or have any typos but im doing this while driving and theres not much time at each red light.

You had less abilities, magic was less fun with the removal of class combos, the story was boring and very hard to care about.it was so bad dragonage keep crashed when it moved to that part of the story. Combat was a slap in the face to anyone who loved the tactical top down aspect of origins and was replaced by a medicore AT BEST, fast paced action.
Also they ruined anders.
assets were heavily reused and the places you could travel to were limited at best. The whole area that the whole game AND story were locked to was the city kirkwall which looks like garbage and im refering to textures and models and general art design. It was bad. Not to mention the city is as interesting as dry paint.


Companion interaction was a lot more minimal and their customization took a hard hit to the gut where you could barely change any of their gear.
speaking of gear they decided in this sequal to take all the armor pieces and glue them together so you could count your equipment slots on one hand.
AND MY GOD are those companions dull and uninteresting! Compare it to origins' companions and tell me its fine.

Interface is ofc set in mind for a controller. Its bad.not broken but its just not good if you use a mouse.

What else.. remember the grey wardens and the blight? The darkspawn and all the cool sh*t? F*CK that noise! You get hawk! As unique of a hero as a grain of sand on the beach and as interesting of a character as a block of wood. The darkspawn and grey wardens appeared as much as godzilla appeared in the last movie.

Well.. thats all for now..

[lichg]

And thats just the tip of the iceberg. And from the top of my mind! Ofc some stuff are just opinions of taste but my taste isnt all that unique, mate..

[Razir-Samus]

And thats just the tip of the iceberg. And from the top of my mind! Ofc some stuff are just opinions of taste but my taste isnt all that unique, mate..

i think you're placing too much dramatic emphasis on your somewhat shallow opinion, lets see...

 

1. i don't remember DA2 ever being less tactical and more tactical after a patch, so you'll really need to forgive me on that

 

2. less abilities? i suppose, but there was more concrete variety, more freedom for builds, and there was upgrades to most abilities unlike in DA:O, and the class combos were still there, they were just different

 

3. assets were indeed re-used, it made sense that some caves vanished and appeared when the story progressed a few years each time you finished an act, the main locations were large too, with a fair few of these caves in them, whereas DA:O had locations that were compact and had a fair bit of content in them; i think DA2 looked better than DA:O, by quite a bit, maybe the nostalgia is hitting you, i don't know

 

4. i won't pretend to understand why they decided to dumb down the companion gearing, but it is a trend in EA franchises

 

5. i can't comment on the interaction, as it was secondary to the gameplay for me and i only used it as a means to an end, such as getting to the romances, progressing their quest lines, and unlocking their aesthetically upgraded armor

 

6. not sure why you're saying the interface was meant for consoles, they took it in a certain direction and for the most part it displayed the same information as dA:O, now look at DA:I with the obscene amount of restrictions and core features that were literally torn apart and compare it to DA2, what do you think?

 

7. what kind of story could possibly come after the archdemon was killed and the blights were ended forever? usually game series just end when they have such a finale, as there's nothing else there that you could throw a bucket at and derive a story from, but they found something, and then again with DA:I (which to me was quite obscure and just as random as hawke)

[lichg]

i didnt comment on your opinions being shallow when you said DA2 was good, even tho like you i strongly disagreed. and the story could have been another blight or something like the expansion. it didnt need to focus on a whole new hero and the things that happened in one city. DA2 doesnt need to start right after DA1 ended. it could be like a decade after or centuries after.

 

the game WAS and still is less tactical, unless im comparing it to the mod since i mainly played with that. but on day 1 it didnt have complex tactics and it didnt have any complex tactics until they PATCHED THEM IN. if you dont believe me just look at DA2 patch notes and look for it or dont believe me, it matters not...

 

class combos switched to hero combos or something of that sort. its a matter of taste and i didnt like it. and the variety was lacking im sorry.. unless that got patched as well.. i quit quite early, you see, once i finished once.

 

if companion interaction is not important for you than im sorry for you. a matter of taste that matters not against hard objective facts. it was lacking and it was minimal. it was bad (thats not objective but it might as well be)

 

interface is a matter of opinions, it looks like a console's interface to me, just like, for example, skyrim has the same issue which is why skyUI is one of the top and seen as essential mods by most 

[Frozenkex]

what bioware is asking of us is basically to trust them that they have programmed ai to use their skills in combination with other skills perfectly. Its not something i would ever ask or expect, and no they dont work that great. Blackwall casts walking fortress every time he gets in combat before he has taken any damage or aggro, even if i have other abilities selected as preferred, its ridiculous.

In previous games you could see exactly how your AI is gonna behave because you have abilitiy to program it yourself. Hell even a small thing as priority list wouldve been better than "preferred" checkmark.

 

Why not have advanced customization like in previous games? Too complex for mainstream console users? I dont think so, people who didnt care about that sort of thing didnt need to use it to play easier difficulties, and dumbing it down benefited no one.

[Frozenkex]

Can we get a screenshot or two of these new, truncated tactics menus for those of us who were waiting for the first patch before buying?

the only thing you can do in tactics is disable ability or make it "preferred" thats all, there is no other options. Then there is other tab behavior , like which character ai follows or defends and how low hp must be to use potion and how much stamina to save, thats about it.

[Razir-Samus]

i didnt comment on your opinions being shallow when you said DA2 was good, even tho like you i strongly disagreed. and the story could have been another blight or something like the expansion. it didnt need to focus on a whole new hero and the things that happened in one city. DA2 doesnt need to start right after DA1 ended. it could be like a decade after or centuries after.

 

the game WAS and still is less tactical, unless im comparing it to the mod since i mainly played with that. but on day 1 it didnt have complex tactics and it didnt have any complex tactics until they PATCHED THEM IN. if you dont believe me just look at DA2 patch notes and look for it or dont believe me, it matters not...

 

class combos switched to hero combos or something of that sort. its a matter of taste and i didnt like it. and the variety was lacking im sorry.. unless that got patched as well.. i quit quite early, you see, once i finished once.

 

if companion interaction is not important for you than im sorry for you. a matter of taste that matters not against hard objective facts. it was lacking and it was minimal. it was bad (thats not objective but it might as well be)

 

interface is a matter of opinions, it looks like a console's interface to me, just like, for example, skyrim has the same issue which is why skyUI is one of the top and seen as essential mods by most 

why did you finish da2 at all if you didn't think it was an enjoyable experience? that defies logic... no need to talk about the story anymore, it could have been anything BUT another blight, because the blights were ended, have you even played DA:O? it did need to focus on a sole hero with companions because that's what dragon age started as

 

class combos were still in DA2, they just had different effects and much clearer indications of when a mob was afflicted by a status effect so you could exploit it (yellow spinning icons above the mob)

 

i didn't say the companion interaction wasn't important, you're twisting my words, i said it was secondary to the actual gameplay, so don't feel sorry for me, you play your way, i play my way, and hey, i enjoy it... i can't get over your use of hyperbole though, and reiterating your own opinion that i already think is lacking in substance

 

what bioware is asking of us is basically to trust them that they have programmed ai to use their skills in combination with other skills perfectly. Its not something i would ever ask or expect, and no they dont work that great. Blackwall casts walking fortress every time he gets in combat before he has taken any damage or aggro, even if i have other abilities selected as preferred, its ridiculous.

In previous games you could see exactly how your AI is gonna behave because you have abilitiy to program it yourself. Hell even a small thing as priority list wouldve been better than "preferred" checkmark.

 

Why not have advanced customization like in previous games? Too complex for mainstream console users? I dont think so, people who didnt care about that sort of thing didnt need to use it to play easier difficulties, and dumbing it down benefited no one.

when i saw what had been ripped from the next game in the dragon age series, i instantly thought of it as a sellout, a moneygrab, they obviously cut corners for some reason, whether that was EA breathing down their necks or the fact that they were building the game on an engine they hadn't used before and the engine simply has limitations (or devs didn't have a clue) that stopped them from designing DA:I in the same way that DA:O/DA2 was designed

[Radko]

Can we get a screenshot or two of these new, truncated tactics menus for those of us who were waiting for the first patch before buying?

 

http://i.imgur.com/WE2Lv6P.png

 

http://i.imgur.com/7EP2LGC.jpg

[Radko]

The tactics is sickeningly dull Ursulawinn, what a shame...

[lichg]

why did you finish da2 at all if you didn't think it was an enjoyable experience? that defies logic... no need to talk about the story anymore, it could have been anything BUT another blight, because the blights were ended, have you even played DA:O? it did need to focus on a sole hero with companions because that's what dragon age started as

 

class combos were still in DA2, they just had different effects and much clearer indications of when a mob was afflicted by a status effect so you could exploit it (yellow spinning icons above the mob)

 

i didn't say the companion interaction wasn't important, you're twisting my words, i said it was secondary to the actual gameplay, so don't feel sorry for me, you play your way, i play my way, and hey, i enjoy it... i can't get over your use of hyperbole though, and reiterating your own opinion that i already think is lacking in substance

 

when i saw what had been ripped from the next game in the dragon age series, i instantly thought of it as a sellout, a moneygrab, they obviously cut corners for some reason, whether that was EA breathing down their necks or the fact that they were building the game on an engine they hadn't used before and the engine simply has limitations (or devs didn't have a clue) that stopped them from designing DA:I in the same way that DA:O/DA2 was designed

 

 

 

if it wasnt a sequal to origins i wouldnt have finished it but i knew there would be a sequal and i knew my actions would matter, so i played... after i finished once i quit tho. no DLCs no patches. i was out. a disapointing ending to a disapointing story.

 

a clash of opinions that i do not care for and not even trying to explain fully because i didnt wanna start this discussion here in the first place. if you wanna praise DA2 or something like that go hang with the DA2 lovers over there *points at an empty room*

 

 

well maybe that a bit extreme.. DA2 by its on is an ok game and im sure many enjoyed it as its own thing. but its nothing special and outshined by many, especially by its prequal which casts a huge shadow over it.

now please, b4 you boosts BW's ego, lets go back to talk about fixing the issues in the new game WHICH IS ALSO A GOOD GAME IF IT WASNT FOR THINGS LIKE THIS PROBLEM.

 

..

[Razir-Samus]

if it wasnt a sequal to origins i wouldnt have finished it but i knew there would be a sequal and i knew my actions would matter, so i played... after i finished once i quit tho. no DLCs no patches. i was out. a disapointing ending to a disapointing story.

 

a clash of opinions that i do not care for and not even trying to explain fully because i didnt wanna start this discussion here in the first place. if you wanna praise DA2 or something like that go hang with the DA2 lovers over there *points at an empty room*

 

 

well maybe that a bit extreme.. DA2 by its on is an ok game and im sure many enjoyed it as its own thing. but its nothing special and outshined by many, especially by its prequal which casts a huge shadow over it.

now please, b4 you boosts BW's ego, lets go back to talk about fixing the issues in the new game WHICH IS ALSO A GOOD GAME IF IT WASNT FOR THINGS LIKE THIS PROBLEM.

 

..

you're just a wonderful bag of sarcasm aren't you... "DA2 lovers" "points at an empty room", how immature can you be? your opinion has proven to be shallow, just like i said, it's not based on anything but aesthetics, and you talk about being objective, that's quite amusing

 

i would call DA:I a good game if not for the fact that it was branded as part of the dragon age franchise, the tangent they went off on was extreme, everything changed, core features that MADE the previous titles were ripped out, torn apart, completely changed... what we have now is not dragon age anymore, yet it's still being called it

 

if you call DA2 nothing special because of a few nitpicked flaws, then arguably no game is ever anything special, which in most cases simply isn't the truth because people have opinions of their own, they form them, nurture them, some hold onto them too deeply like it would hurt their pride to let go and change their opinion of something, it's just petty to try assert your misplaced angst onto others

[Cartho]

I agree 100%. The lack of tactics is a major disappointment for me. I simply cannot begin to understand why they were removed. It was such a fantastic system.

 

It's not like they can use the "oh we want people to pause more" argument, because if people want to do that then they can just not use tactics. It was 100% optional and it really enhanced the game. Hell if they were worried about them being too confusing for new players they could have added it in as a menu option: "enable advanced tactics (warning: for experienced players only)".

 

I just cannot fathom why they would take a backwards step like this. It feels so stupid to have a sequel which is a truly fantastic game but has taken such a massive step backwards like this.

[Razir-Samus]

I agree 100%. The lack of tactics is a major disappointment for me. I simply cannot begin to understand why they were removed. It was such a fantastic system.

 

It's not like they can use the "oh we want people to pause more" argument, because if people want to do that then they can just not use tactics. It was 100% optional and it really enhanced the game. Hell if they were worried about them being too confusing for new players they could have added it in as a menu option: "enable advanced tactics (warning: for experienced players only)".

 

I just cannot fathom why they would take a backwards step like this. It feels so stupid to have a sequel which is a truly fantastic game but has taken such a massive step backwards like this.

to add to what you said about the less astute players, there was preset lists of tactics that made the characters act out roles, granted they were quite basic and could have used some fine-tuning... for the casual player they were just fine

[lichg]

you're just a wonderful bag of sarcasm aren't you... "DA2 lovers" "points at an empty room", how immature can you be? your opinion has proven to be shallow, just like i said, it's not based on anything but aesthetics, and you talk about being objective, that's quite amusing

i would call DA:I a good game if not for the fact that it was branded as part of the dragon age franchise, the tangent they went off on was extreme, everything changed, core features that MADE the previous titles were ripped out, torn apart, completely changed... what we have now is not dragon age anymore, yet it's still being called it

if you call DA2 nothing special because of a few nitpicked flaws, then arguably no game is ever anything special, which in most cases simply isn't the truth because people have opinions of their own, they form them, nurture them, some hold onto them too deeply like it would hurt their pride to let go and change their opinion of something, it's just petty to try assert your misplaced angst onto others

Forgive my sarcasm, i tend to set it on high when ppl insult me or be rude when i tried my best not to offend in any way. I would start and honest, mature and fully detailed discussion with you about the game but i dont wanna do it here and i kept telling you that over and over again. Honestly, theres a huge chunk of ppl who own the game who see it as a huge let down and if you refuse to see why because you think its shallow or nitpicky then its your problem. On its own its just a bland and boring game but it has its fun moments too dont get me wrong.

Now stop derailing this thread.

Edit: and theres more than one archdemon, another blight is not impossible.

[Cartho]

to add to what you said about the less astute players, there was preset lists of tactics that made the characters act out roles, granted they were quite basic and could have used some fine-tuning... for the casual player they were just fine

 

Indeed.

Which only makes their removal even more insane. I mean, I just.... What in god's name were they thinking of? I can think of literally zero reasons why this new system is better. None. At all. I've been trying to think of a proper reason for the last 10 minutes - why did they do this? There must have been some thought process behind it. I'd love to know what it is because, from where I'm standing, it looks like the designers took a massive swig of lead paint before starting to work on the tactics system in DAI.

[Shifter0351]

I am tired of buying a game I have waited years for only to realize I'll have to wait another six months to enjoy it when they fix all the things they promised but did not deliver. 

[K3m0sabe]

One of the thing that irks me about the removal of the in depth tactics options, is that they were incredibly friendly for players new to the genre and the system, including console players picking up a DA game for the first time. 

 

The presets for each character, the scrapper, defender, ranged, etc, worked wonderfully to simplify the system and allow npc characters to play effectively, it was nowhere near as complex as downloading an AI script and turning it on in Baldurs Gate, although those were amazing.

 

The only explanation i can come up with is that this was a rushed release with Bioware cutting corners wherever they could.

[Corto81]

 

if you call DA2 nothing special because of a few nitpicked flaws, then arguably no game is ever anything special, which in most cases simply isn't the truth because people have opinions of their own, they form them, nurture them, some hold onto them too deeply like it would hurt their pride to let go and change their opinion of something, it's just petty to try assert your misplaced angst onto others

 

Dude.

There were people who liked DA2. There was also a HUGE number of people who didn't like it, it got mediocre reviews, mediocre sales, and in the end, Bioware themselves scratched planned DLCs for it and went on to change the formula.

 

The "nitpicked" flaws are anything but nitpicks, just some of the top of my head:

- tiny world

- reused maps

- waves of enemies

- disjointed story, weak antagonists, plot holes (to the point EVEN BIOWARE MAKES FUN OF ORSINO'S ACTIONS IN YOUR TALK TO VARRIC IN DA:I)

- no item descriptions

- no exploration

- no companion customization etc etc.

- max. 5 minute quests (talk to NPC, teleport somewhere, kill 5 mobs, go back)

-  etc etc etc

 

(apart from the story, which is an opinion I can strongly argue, everything else listed there are FACTS)

 

Also, DA2 came out in 2011.

In the same year we got Skyrim, Dark Souls and Witcher 2 and they all made DA2 look like Tetris.

To be honest, I thought KOA:Reckoning was easily a better game than DA2 as well.