Equity social justice, conformity and LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. It wont get any better with corporations I presume. Its the same with sports, if it gets big overtime it looses its "fair play" aspect which is replaced by "money play".
I still didnt buy the game, still waiting for more serious feedback. I'm on the fence right now.
I couldn't disagree with anything he said. Life in medieval societies was brutal, cruel, and unfair, and games in that setting shouldn't be afraid to present that reality; if it offends SJWs who want to sanitise history, so be it, nothing of value is being lost.
The unrelenting brutality of life is one of the things Witcher does really well, but which Dragon Age has either skated around the edges of, or (more recently) conspicuously ignored. Developers creating dark, adult-oriented games should not allow themselves to be cowed by the Tumblr shriekers from exploring the darker aspects of human nature, because that way lies the most pervasive and insidious form of censorship - self-censorship.
I think Stephen Fry's comment about people complaining of being offended is apt:
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
I just logged in to like this post.
If anything I felt more like I was playing a sequel to Origins than DA2 with the art style and darkness of the story. Not sure what the author of that article is on about.
It's not about the art style. It's how Bioware tip-toes important social issues prevalent to medieval societies, such as the unequal treatment of women, racism, corruption etc. Everyone in Dragon Age is either straight up evil, of the Saturday morning cartoon variety, or naively good.
Also, apparently having female characters not get raped constantly is offensive as well.
Yeah. **** this article and the ******* who wrote it.
Yes, better to just ignore that rape happened altogether to women in the middle ages, right? Because all women were in high places and thoroughly protected from harm, not to mention their empowerment. Your post is ignorant.
Yes. How dare BioWare decide "Hey, we haven't really handled racial diversity well in the past. Maybe we should fix that."
Or "Hey, every time we try to use rape as some sort of narrative shortcut for darkness, it comes off as really hamfisted, and probably makes quite a large number of people uncomfortable. Maybe we should back off on that."
It should make people uncomfortable. If anything, that's what the developer should aim at. You should feel horrified at the act and its aim is to make you more sensitive towards people that had suffered through it and to actively persecute people who commit such acts. I've been in a relationship were my partner was raped by her ex and I dealt with the agonizing aftermath of it. Your approach isn't offensive. It's downright insulting.
I don't fully understand this arugment. Dragon age was never meant to be historically accurate. It is a fantasy setting with countries that are LOOSELY inspired by real countries. That's it.
So that should give everyone a pass from approaching sociopolitical problems that plagued medieval society. Might as well just make the game high fantasy, then and copy paste Tolkien completely.
I disagree with the article as regards to rape. Here's the thing: BW did not handle rape very well in Origins, It was shorthand for "this is the bad guy and our setting is so dark and edgy" instead of being engaged with in a meaningful way. All it accomplished was making CE unplayable and making me cringe at other points. So the "santized" version is vastly preferable.
This I do agree with. The fact that the writers can't tackle something in a meaningful/tactful way, means I would rather not see it make it into the game, that's true. I had enough with the meaningless self-sacrificial moments in Mass Effect 3 that were not handled very well and were far too many in between.
Someone whining about historical accuracy? In a game with magic, elf's and dragons?! Why is it always sexism, racism, homophobia, sexual violence etc - that have to be included for something to be called historically accurate, but those who say it's important do not refuse the existence of magic and dragons? How ridiculous can one get...
Wow...
The **** I'm reading in this thread... unbelievable...
This thread just proves the lack of education going on in schools. Unfortunately.
I really hate when I have to pull this card.Yes, better to just ignore that rape happened altogether to women in the middle ages, right? Because all women were in high places and thoroughly protected from harm, not to mention their empowerment. Your post is ignorant.
It should make people uncomfortable. If anything, that's what the developer should aim at. You should feel horrified at the act and its aim is to make you more sensitive towards people that had suffered through it and to actively persecute people who commit such acts. I've been in a relationship were my partner was raped by her ex and I dealt with the agonizing aftermath of it. Your approach isn't offensive. It's downright insulting.
I don't really see how throwing blood and gore at something makes it dark (if anything they made Origins look childish). The darkness of a setting comes not from the number of gallons of blood you see on screen, nor even the colour pallette used, it comes from the characters, and the stories, it comes from the way people and things act and react. You can easily have very dark settings where everything looks bright and cheerful. The heart of darkness is candy coated (imaginary cookie for those that get the reference).
Overall, I'd say Thedas is a pretty dark setting. The world is not a nice place to live in. We see opression and prejudice. We see war and it's brutality. We see a world on the brink of destruction.
But yet, despite that, I consider Origins to not actually be that dark. Why? The story. Ultimately, depsite the darkness of the world it takes place in, the main plot of DA:O is remarkably optimistic. Yes, bad things can and do happenover the course of the game, but in the end, our intrepid hero can unite the people of Ferelden and lead his merry band to save the day from the forces of darkness. Throw in the ritual and this can happen pretty much without cost. There's no negative consequences to your actions. There's no sacrifices. Sure, you can play in a way that involves taking darker decisions, but in a truly dark story, you would have to do so - or at least, if you didn't, there would be major consequences. DA:O's story is a heroic fairytale, that happens to be set in a crapsack world. Of course, that isn't neccesarily a bad thing, as indeed, it's a well told and enjoyable story. There's a place for idealism, for escapism. Not everything has to be grimdark. And in many ways, putting such an optimistic story in such a harsh world makes its message even greater - that even among such horrors, there is light.
DA2, by comparison, IMO, is a much darker story (and before someone jumps in here, I'm simply talking about the underlying plot and not taking notice of any flaws in its implemetation). In the end, Hawke can't save the day, Kirkwall will collapse into conflict no matter what he does. There's no idealistic happy endings, there's no triumph of heroism over darkness. Sometimes all you can do is give your best, only to find that your best simply isn't good enough to save everyone. You can help, you can make things less bad than they might have been, but in the end, you're just a man, and there's a limit on what one man can do. It's a much darker, more realistic outcome than Origins.
You're funny there mate 
Blood gore and dark colours, don't set a dark tone for you, sure, no problem, I can accept that. DA:Origins being merry? you're talking out of your ass. Starting with Duncan, and the King, Alistairs brother dieing bloody deaths and betrayed, ending with losing morrigan no matter, she may have been your romance opition. My Warden DIED at the end Origins, and for him not to die, either the other good guy dies, or one of you does the ritual to have a baby/maybe even your own baby, become "posessed" by one of the darkest beings/powers in the world of Thedas, and disapear. Or maybe take the bad guy and let him be used as "live bait" and bite the dust... not very happy high fantasy.
Lets not forget the fact that every chapter is also about racism, violence, rape, slavery etc. Kill your dwarven firend's love, or kill the righteous golem trying to do what is moraly right. Go against one of your best friends will and force him king? or force him to marry a girl he dosnt want to for politics? Kill a possesed boy or try to save him and do a dark bargain, or kill the deamon, while still facing the consequences?
There are plenty of other examples of how dark, and not a happely ever after a story Origins was.
Thing is, there is a huge amount of discrimination, inequality and prejudice in Thedas. It's just not entirely aimed at the same groups that these things were aimed at historically...
Let's complain how a fictional fantasy setting is not historically accurate!!!!
Some of you guys are beyond ridiculous, I swear.
I really hate when I have to pull this card.
I've been raped. I've experienced this crap first hand. And I do not appreciate when writers just throw it around as some sort of dramatic shortcut. It's hamfisted and insensitive, and I don't think I've ever read a book or watched a movie or played a game that used rape as a plot device and didn't make me want to vomit all over it. It's insulting to me that people believe a fantasy world (note: Dragon Age is not a medieval world. It's a fantasy world.) with no rape is somehow "unrealistic."
So? There are god damn dragons and demons and undead. Surely you can suspend your disbelief enough to stand rape not being a constant looming threat.
How can you pretend that it doesn't happen? I understand you don't want to be reminded of the experience. I myself am not asking for a graphical depiction of the act. But to say that something like that it never happened in the entire history of Thedas is mind boggling. Maybe it didn't happen to anyone important or plot relevant enough, but it does happen. And here, in a fantasy world, if done right, maybe, just maybe, you could get back at someone. It could be cathartic.
How can you pretend that it doesn't happen? I understand you don't want to be reminded of the experience. I myself am not asking for a graphical depiction of the act. But to say that something like that it never happened in the entire history of Thedas is mind boggling. Maybe it didn't happen to anyone important or plot relevant enough, but it does happen. And here, in a fantasy world, if done right, maybe, just maybe, you could get back at someone. It could be cathartic.
Get over yourself you insensitive ass.
Rape has happened in this game. The entire elven plot line in DAO was caused by humans raping Zathrian's kids. That psychopath son of the Magistrate raped elves and killed them. That **** happened.
But this is not a historical emulator, nor should the player ever be forced to participate in such events.
You're technically also asking for us to be able to chop people's fingers off or neuter them. Yeah that **** too happened and it still happens but it's beyond disgusting to the point of never being needed to be displayed, especially in a goddamn game.
Jesus...
Get over yourself you insensitive ass.
Like I said, I've had an experiece that affected me as well. Don't judge if you don't know what you're talking about.
You're funny there mate
Blood gore and dark colours, don't set a dark tone for you, sure, no problem, I can accept that. DA:Origins being merry? you're talking out of your ass. Starting with Duncan, and the King, Alistairs brother dieing bbllody deaths and betrayed, ending for some with losing morrigan no matter what if she was the romance. My Warden DIED at the end Origins, and for him not to die, either the other good guy dies, or one of you does the ritual to have a baby/maybe even your own baby, become "posessed" by one of the darkest beings/powers in the world of Thedas. Or maybe take the bad guy and let him be used as "live bait" and bite the dust... not very happy high fantasy.
Lets not forget the fact that every chapter is also about racism, violence, rape, slavery etc. Kill your dwarven firend's love, or kill the righteous golem trying to do what is moraly right. Go against one of your best friends will and force him king? or force him to marry a girl he dosnt want to for politics? Kill a possesed boy or try to save him and do a dark bargain, or kill the deamon, while still facing the consequences?
There are plenty of other examples of how dark, and not a happely ever after a story Origins was.
I din't say DA:O was "merry". I said it was optimisitic. And in the end, it is. Yes, bad stuff happens. Yes, the setting and the opening of the story are dark. But from that starting point of a crapsack world in a bad state, the plot is a an optimistic, idealistic story of heroism triumphing over darkness. From that starting point things went about as well as they possibly could have. Is everything sunshine and rainbows? of course not. Are there some cases where there is no perfect option? Sure. And, yeah, you have the option for doing less heroic things if you chose, but there are no consequences for not doing those things. If you do the heroic thing, the "good" thing, it works. Ultimately, if you play that way, the warden and their merry band of companions defeat the Blight and save Ferelden (and Thedas as a whole) at a remarkably small cost (particularly when you look at previous Blights. The Fourth one, as desribed in Last Flight was orders of magnitude worse than the Fifth, and that was still much much shorter than the earlier ones.) And that, frankly, is not "dark" or "realistic" (again, that's not a criticism, optimistic stories can be good, and Origins' is).
A dark story would have you trying and failing to save people time and time again (whereas, in DA:O, if you try to save someone, the vast majoirty of the time, you can by taking the right option). A dark story would leave many of your closest companions dead. A dark story would not give you a get out clause to avoid the sacrifice. A dark story would not give you "everthing turns out OK" opions like making peace between the Elves and Werewolves, or saving Connor by getting the mage's help. Hell, on the subject of mages, a dark story would have siding with the mages in the tower result in releasing a daemonic infestation into the world. A dark story would not have the Blight ending in a single game. You break the siege of Denerim perhaps, drive the darkspawn off temporarily, but the blight will last decades if not centuries. A dark, realistic story would not give you nearly as many choices in your actions. It would force more things upon you as one man cannot shape the world, they can only shape themselves in reaction to the world. The entire idea of a Hero saving Ferelden is hugely optimistic and idealistic.
So yeah, I stand by my assertion that Origins is a positive, optimistic story in a dark crapsack world.
Thing is, there is a huge amount of discrimination, inequality and prejudice in Thedas. It's just not entirely aimed at the same groups that these things were aimed at historically...
Yeah.. they seem to have concentrated all of their hate onto pointy ears...
I find myself agreeing completely with the author. Not only that, the adding of people of colour into the game feels like such a huge wasted opportunity too. Why not expand the map and add new kingdoms if there was not enough racial diversity? Something based on ancient african kingdoms like Mali or Songhai for example. New accents, backrounds and history would have been great.
Instead, ironically, we get black people, who are paper thin token blacks with no distinctive cultural features or character apart from their skin colour. Change their appearance away, and no one can say who was black and who was not. Same is not true for Antivans, Navarrans, Rivains or Orlaisians.
Personally I really liked the city elf start in origins, it was fun to stand up against that kind of evilness. Yet, all that has been replaced with political correctness.
Exactly. Show of hands who has a problem with the Redguards from the Elder Scrolls? Or better yet make games set in Africa, India etc. with entirely no white people rather than constantly doing fantasy europe.
Like I said, I've had an experiece that affected me as well. Don't judge if you don't know what you're talking about.
If you've been there before then you would know better than to tell someone else to get over it as if it were easy.
There are tons of conservatives on Tumblr.
Neither the Witcher nor the Dragon Age series accurately portray Medieval European societies and neither are entirely based on factual history. They are both fantasies. You will not be required by your History prof at university to study either game to get any sense of what Medieval Europe might have been like.
The Kotaku article was a fart by a writer attempting to drum-up his own recognition through click-bait. You ought to feel very foolish for commenting on it. I feel foolish for commenting on it. I will now do other things and try and forget I ever opened this thread or read the article. I'd like the past fifteen minutes of my life back. I accept that, that will never happen and it gives me no pleasure.
I have no idea what the complaint is about rape in game. DAO had rape and so did DA2. Remember Alain and Ser Alrik??? Bt no rape in Inquisition means rape is no longer in this world? wtf 
Woah. I came in here expecting a lethargic debate at best, but I don't even want to touch this topic. A mod needs to come in and shut this thread down. Its toxic in here. I'm...just gonna go away now.
Good, the sooner the trend of everything being dark and depressing and everything being a shade of grey or brown needs to die, the sooner, the better.
People who want everything depressing aren't being more adult...they're being more emo.
I don't see how anyone can argue about the linked article. It is just stating facts. You can only argue if you like the direction Dragon Age went or not. Before they released Origins they said they wanted to make a "Game of Thrones like" game. A game in a dark-grey, dirty and gritty world. Why they never fully achieved this with Origins, there is basically almost nothing left of this attemp in Inqusition. Inqusition is 95% Lord of the Rings high fantasy. If you like the direction Dragon Age went, copying the world of 90% other fantasy games, fine. I don't like it and agree with the article.
I haven't played DA:I yet (saving it for christmas) but I really liked this article because it touches on some of the fears I have of where the franchise is going. I love dark, gritty and semi realistic fantasy and I think Dragon Age is at it's best and most intriguing when it's just that. I don't want Dragon Age to become a hugbox game where everything is tailored not to offend anyone. I really hope Gaider and co. reads this and takes the critisisms to heart because I know they can write really good dark fantasy when they choose to.
I'm confused. People liked the brown, edgy, "look at me, I'm so gory" tone that permeated the original?
Well, different strokes and all that...
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