253 réponses à ce sujet

[Annos Basin]

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy they included this in the game, as it's something I've wanted depicted in a serious manner in a game for a really long time, but why oh why can't I get this romance with a gay female LI?  All I've ever wanted is a confident, strong woman who knows exactly what she wants and is not at all afraid to take it. Sigh.

 

As for the rules coming after, I don't have a problem with it, because we have no idea what actually happened during the scene. It's entirely possible that it was nothing more than him lighting binding the Inquisitor's hands with some silk  and gently telling the Inquisitor to lay back and enjoy it. I've had a few first time's like that, on both sides of the equation. Hell, it could have been as simple as him telling the Inquisitor to hold on to the bed post and not move. I've also done that, with someone who was new to it. There's zero reason to think that what he did was, in any way, shady.

 

If the lady of your dreams was available for men too, it might be fun to read male gamers' thoughts on her in this forum. You know. - Maybe scout Harding in future DLC..? If that would suit her, I don't know since I never flirted with her.

 

And about the first time with Iron Bull, I think this post nailed it. They can't show too randy scenes, especially if it's supposed to be like Sten described years ago (maybe the qunari just think too highly of their skills?), but if you imagine the worst, what you're upset at is (likely) your own headcanon.

 

 

I don't know much about bdsm myself, maybe don't even want to, so most information I hear passes over my ears. But I've read gamers who are into bdsm liked Bull romance and called it much better than 50shades, so gotta take their word for it. I do know though, as relatively old (if hopefully still not cynical) person, that it'd be best bet to avoid pursuing long term relationship with someone who's sexually incompatible with you. Making compromises for love sounds sweet, but agreeing to something you actually wouldn't like to (either participating something unappealing or holding back on something you love) is something that likely ends up as someone's regret. In real life at least. During one playthough I did Ride The Bull because the fade in scenes are so handy. Made my inquisitor feel like more intense personality. And I didn't feel wronged.

 

Now I'm curious if Bull's so into being dom that he makes a renegade option out of panic if you say you'd dislike what he suggested, or does he really believe the qunari teachings about how people need stuff by the book. He obviously sees through some qunari propaganda, but also seems to harbour some affection towards his old "home" (I think he's scarred mostly from living in totalitarian society, because he's naturally too intelligent for that, and because totalitarianism is such a nesting place for insanity - believe me I know more of this than residents of countries with long histories of freedom like USA or Canada -, remember how much he fears losing his mind, but letting go fully and just dismissing everyone you knew is difficult because he's also sociable).

[Chernaya]

I think there's a pretty obvious and logical reason Bull thinks he knows what is best for people/what they need. Not saying everyone should think that is right or enjoy it, but I do like to point out that there's a connection there at least, so it makes story sense. It also makes me think he isn't doing it in a condescending way, he just really believes that, since it was what he was trained his whole life to do - read people. But I digress, I do feel badly for people who only enjoy M/M romances but couldn't really get into either Bull or Dorian. That's unfortunate and I've always had at least one romance option I've loved, so I'm in no place to say "just be happy with what you got!" Hopefully next game will switch it up some yet again. Still cheering for the gay/bi KISA. one of both genders, preferably. xD

[Incantrix]

I'm glad none of the male S/S romances are mushy and generic. If they were I'd roll my eyes and make a straight character.

 

It's poor writing to include cliches. What some people want are cliched romances which is a no-no. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm glad none of the male S/S romances are mushy and generic. If they were I'd roll my eyes and make a straight character.
 
It's poor writing to include cliches. What some people want are cliched romances which is a no-no.

Almost every storyline nowadays is a cliche. The gay people who are being rejected by their family, the pansexual who will engage with anything that move, the sweet shy girl who oblivious to romance advances, the tsundere. At the end of the day, it's about what "cliche" you want for your romance. Certain people growing up thinking about what appeal to them romantically, whether it be a mushy romance or some kind of BDSM. Personally, I wish at least one romance would have been mushy. All the other orientations at least have one romantic relationship on top of their lighter romance.

[jtav]

I'm not into BDSM, but I've read up on it. One thing that's hammered home is that rules and boundaries need to be clear before anything happens. IB only wants to top? Okay. But being vague and only having the safeword conversation afterwards is a no-go. And his "I know what you need" just makes him a jerk. And since I don't think it's intentional, I blame Weekes here.

[Colonelkillabee]

Another instance where Bioware REALLY goes above and beyond the bar when it comes representation of sexuality...pay attention to the "rules" that Bull talks about after with the player...the importance of authenticity.

 

I laughed so hard watching this....

 

"Take me", oh my God....

[Chernaya]

It may very well be an issue of the writer not fully understanding the concepts of a healthy BDSM type relationship, since I don't believe they would purposefully give us something many people would find so alarming/offensive. I really do think he did an excellent job on his characters for the most part though, the only gripe I have is exactly that one issue of rules/boundaries and timing as they are incorporated into the romance. As people have said before in here though, the first romance scene could have been a trial run that went really slowly & carefully as he explained what would happen. I prefer to think of it that way since it can be left for us to kinda headcanon from the vagueness. 

[Incantrix]

I laughed so hard watching this....

 

"Take me", oh my God....

 

Yeah at some points things started to make me blush. But by the end of the day, I got what I wanted out of the romance. Something gritty and sensual. 

[Battlebloodmage]

It may very well be an issue of the writer not fully understanding the concepts of a healthy BDSM type relationship, since I don't believe they would purposefully give us something many people would find so alarming/offensive. I really do think he did an excellent job on his characters for the most part though, the only gripe I have is exactly that one issue of rules/boundaries and timing as they are incorporated into the romance. As people have said before in here though, the first romance scene could have been a trial run that went really slowly & carefully as he explained what would happen. I prefer to think of it that way since it can be left for us to kinda headcanon from the vagueness.

To be fair, it's hardly vague for Iron Bull to put the inquisitor out of commission for the entire day after having sex. It's one thing for female inquisitor, it's another matter for a male inquisitor.

[jtav]

And just from a player perspective, I want to know what I'm getting. Especially if the romance is assigning character traits to my Inquisitor.

[CuriousArtemis]

To be fair, it's hardly vague for Iron Bull to put the inquisitor out of commission for the entire day after having sex. It's one thing for female inquisitor, it's another matter for a male inquisitor.

 

Hey maybe he insists on taking the back door with female inquisitors, too

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I really do wish the watch word conversation had happened before the sex scene.

 

That would solve most of my issues with the romance.

[Ryzaki]

Hey maybe he insists on taking the back door with female inquisitors, too

 

Goddamnit I was drinking something.

[Chernaya]

To be fair, it's hardly vague for Iron Bull to put the inquisitor out of commission for the entire day after having sex. It's one thing for female inquisitor, it's another matter for a male inquisitor.

 

Haha, trust me I know what ya mean. I just try to work with what I've got. xD

[Hazegurl]

lol!! At least we now know what everyone was laughing about. Poor Quizzy's booty

 

[Chernaya]

Seems likely since Sera does make a fitting comment on the inquisitor/bull relationship when asked. xP

[Battlebloodmage]

lol!! At least we now know what everyone was laughing about. Poor Quizzy's booty
 

BDSM is one thing, but I hope Iron Bull's fist stays where they are during sex.

[Solbranthius]

I dislike the Iron Bull romance though not because of any sense of political correctness but simply because it's frustrating that gay/bisexual men can't get a classically handsome and 'fairy tale' guy like Cullen. Instead we get Dorian and Iron Bull. They're not awful characters but they're not exactly conventionally attractive. Dorian is, I suppose - but his mustache ruins it for me (and from what I've seen in other threads I'm not the only one with an aversion to that sort of facial hair).

 

Iron Bull, on the other hand? I can't express how frustrated I am with the mentality of 'look how big and overly muscled he is, hahaha, let's pretend he has a huge meatstick too!!! oh by the way he's heavily implied to be into rough sex!'

 

I mean, alright - I get it. Some people are into that, but it's unfortunate that you can't choose whether your character is the one implied to be on top or whether he agrees to be the bottom.

[Monica21]

And just from a player perspective, I want to know what I'm getting. Especially if the romance is assigning character traits to my Inquisitor.

 

I think this is what I'm disliking the most from what I hear about the romance. I really don't like an RPG taking my character somewhere without giving me the option to dislike it. Years ago I played a game where, I can't remember, you had to do something with this house full of women and this pop-up came up basically saying "You're intrigued and want to join them." It wasn't sexual at all, but I remember thinking that I really wasn't intrigued and that it was a huge flaw in the game to decide that for my character.

[Colonelkillabee]

lol!! At least we now know what everyone was laughing about. Poor Quizzy's booty

 

You made this picture for me, you really did. Thank you, lol.

[Ryzaki]

I think this is what I'm disliking the most from what I hear about the romance. I really don't like an RPG taking my character somewhere without giving me the option to dislike it. Years ago I played a game where, I can't remember, you had to do something with this house full of women and this pop-up came up basically saying "You're intrigued and want to join them." It wasn't sexual at all, but I remember thinking that I really wasn't intrigued and that it was a huge flaw in the game to decide that for my character.

 

I still grind my teeth when Hawke gives Isabela that stupid little smirk after recruiting her.

 

(And Shep's reaction to every Asari ever)

[Rekkampum]

I thought it sucked that it didn't recognize if your Inquisitor was a Qunari. That should've at least affected the situation. Nonetheless, it wold've been funny if they handled it ala Fable 3 with the screen blacked out.

[Sah291]

This isn't just play sexual domination - this is *mental* domination, and that I'm not down with.  If he wants to tie me or whatever, fine, but one thing he can't do is get in my head and tell me precisely what I need with no qualifications and no thought given to my own interpretation of my needs without even the chance to do the same to him.  Nope, no dice.

 

He seems to be making these assumptions about what you "need" based on who the Quizzy is and the role they are in as Inquisitor-- specifically as someone in a position of power. That's why I don't think he's necessarily intended to appeal to all players or all characters a player might create.

 

I think my female elf might have related more to one of his serving girls, so I didn't go for his romance. She was better suited to Solas who deals with the slave mentality, or even Sera who challenges her Dalish-ness. Maybe Bull is better suited to a character that is used to having some measure of power already...to which being in a situation where they aren't always in control is new or different. I don't know.

 

It is indeed social/mental manipulation, and I think he pretty much admits to using to his spy training on you. It's not necessarily meant to be malicious though, and could be meant to help the Quizzy in some way. That's implied by his refusal to just give you whatever you want, which he says is reserved for a hostile target. It's open to interoperation I guess. 

[Dutchess]

It may very well be an issue of the writer not fully understanding the concepts of a healthy BDSM type relationship, since I don't believe they would purposefully give us something many people would find so alarming/offensive. I really do think he did an excellent job on his characters for the most part though, the only gripe I have is exactly that one issue of rules/boundaries and timing as they are incorporated into the romance. As people have said before in here though, the first romance scene could have been a trial run that went really slowly & carefully as he explained what would happen. I prefer to think of it that way since it can be left for us to kinda headcanon from the vagueness. 

 

The establishing of rules coming before all the action really should be easy to learn about when you do a little research. It's the most important rule of BDSM after all. This implementation is just lazy and poorly done. The writer did know about safe words after all, because the conversation is there. But they just went with the awkward "ride the Bull" nonsense first and then added the "I know what you need" mind-reading to the rules dialogue. Bleh.