261 replies to this topic

[Saboteur-6]

@HellKnight: I respect your logic with the utility of BB but in practice, I think people are finding that the cooldown reduction isn't enough to make WoH/SP a twice per spawn cast since most units are dead at that point. That's why I was asking for numbers earlier. Maybe BB is balanced around gear and accessories spec'd for cooldown reduction?

Also I've noticed the icon active even outside of the BB radius but I haven't tested to see if the buff is actually being applied.

[setrus86]

Just starting to level up my templar and thinking of having my active abilities be Wrath of Heaven, Spell purge, shield wall and shield bash...two nice area of effect powers, a guard builder and a guard-destroyer for those pesky bosses and for throwing the mooks around if kiting or to stop them from attacking the mage...it's all good so far. :-)

[Chaz Darkbane]

Chaz I promise you the Templar is "worth having along" outside the use of BB. Your synopsis, while accurate in some areas is short sighted, reductive, and borderline misinformation in others. The burst damage capability of her spawn nuke and her passives make her an asset, even when she's the sole warrior. Granted it's based off of weapon damage % but it's not like the combo requires a lvl 20 weapon to be effective. I was doing it on Routine with a lvl 12 common axe and on Threatening with a lvl 16 common. All this with the combo becoming available by lvl 9 if you go straight for it.

So help me if people start with elitist "Templar doesn't belong in teams" nonsense I'll drop a Wrath of Heaven / Spell Purge on this whole damn forum. Just because her playstyle differs from the Legionnaire doesn't make her unviable. Diversity among classes is a GOOD thing.

She mitigates damage in the form of Stun and just straight up disintegrating trash enemies through burst where the Dwarf facetanks the alpha strike from the whole spawn and relies on teammates for taking out the trash.

 

I do not mean to give the impression that the Templar is useless garbage. I even pointed out that her passives combined with Horn of Valor make her helpful to her team. But when it comes to effectiveness in comparison to other classes, she is extremely lacking. This is coming from a dude who plays nothing but sword & board paladins in most games. So let it be known that the criticism I have towards the Templar does not come from wanting her to not find teams or get instakicked. But because I desperately want her to be good.

 

In her current state she exists in a sort of void zone between a warrior and a mage; she is capable of powerful nukes in a small area, but with how long the cooldown is and how little access she has to tank abilities she suffers in effectiveness because of it. She doesn't have access to War Cry (which sucks, because with a War Cry + WoH + Spell Purge she could seriously wreck) so she can't really tank groups, and without a reliable method of cooldown reduction she can't really deal damage. So in terms of ideal team comp why would I want to bring her to tank instead of a Legionnaire? To dps instead of a mage or rogue? I want her to be good because I love her concept and the reason I am putting so much criticism on Blessed Blades is because this ability has the potential to fix all the problems with her kit with a few changes. I don't need my tank to not be able to tank so they can nuke in a small circle once every 30 seconds, I don't need my dps to not be able to dps because they are tanking while waiting for the thirty second cooldown on their only form of damage. Right now she has been pretty much pidgeonholed into the role of a Horn of Valor support due to the lack of synergy in her skill tree.

 

Wrong. Blessed Blades' perk does not require you to stand in the circle, which is why it's good. You activate the skill and carry on with your business, and each attack reduces your cooldowns on your #1 combo. Don't believe me? Cast Blessed Blades, watch your buff bar, and walk out of the circle. You will lose the 15% damage boost, but the perk will remain for the full duration.

 

It's a very meh skill, as you say, but don't discount it as total garbage. WoH + Spell Purge is the highest damage nuke Templars have and the Blessed Blades perk directly boosts your DPS by reducing their cooldowns. It's practically essential to a combo build.

 

 

@HellKnight: I respect your logic with the utility of BB but in practice, I think people are finding that the cooldown reduction isn't enough to make WoH/SP a twice per spawn cast since most units are dead at that point. That's why I was asking for numbers earlier. Maybe BB is balanced around gear and accessories spec'd for cooldown reduction?

Also I've noticed the icon active even outside of the BB radius but I haven't tested to see if the buff is actually being applied.

Seeing as both your quotes are regarding the same thing I will respond to them both with this one.I responded to this claim earlier in another quote. Even when unperked, you will have the buff listed on your bar as if it was active (try it yourself if you do not believe me). After testing it a bit outside the circle it does not appear that it will proc the cooldown reduction or the additional damage when leaving the circle. Then again, this is hard to test with a .5 second cooldown reduction and a slow weapon so I can't really confirm.

 

On the topic of being balanced around cooldown trinkets I don't think this is the case. It seems like it was balanced around the idea that it would be really powerful in an extended fight where everyone benefited from it, but seeing as that very rarely happens we never get to see that. My reasoning will be using the Reaver as an example. This is a guy who crits like mad, (like we are talking his critical hits cause more critical hits, and his lack of criticals cause more criticals), and because of that he never has to worry about cooldowns because every crit procs his passive Flow of Battle reducing all of his cooldowns by 1 second. The Templar and Legionnaire also have access to this passive, but have no reliable way of procing it. Seeing as the Reaver apparently has the ability to think cooldowns are a nothing but a myth told to scare young berserkers at night without even taking into account having a cooldown accessory, I doubt that the Templar was balanced with having them in mind.

[Saboteur-6]

I'm sort of done indulging Chaz's obviously rigid and biased perception of team composition / team effectiveness at this point. Again to those reading who are on the fence about the Templar... don't listen to the naysayers and let it dissuade you from playing and/or including one on your team.

To answer one of my earlier questions: Yes Wrath of Heaven, Unbowed, and Spell Purge are a viable rotation so you can max your guard before you nuke the spawn.

[mission555]

Funny thing I noticed, the game seems to have a "right way" to build templar. The skilltree itself seems to tell a story and point you in a certain direction.

[Saboteur-6]

Funny thing I noticed, the game seems to have a "right way" to build templar. The skilltree itself seems to tell a story and point you in a certain direction.

In what sense? I haven't been experimenting with Bodyguard but I agree the spell combo skills are almost class defining. Sentinel tree could benefit from some more exploration.

[Myala]

I did a support build with Sheild, Horn, Blessed Blades, and Challenge. It works fine. I draw almost no agro with that build too. Beat perilous with that build with an archer, a nechro, and a reaver. When that 35% works it is insane with those high dps characters. But there were a few matches where the Horn was not working.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

My first Templar build was based around allmighty combo+Shield Wall +Shield smash.If someone plans soloing,I think that is way to go.

 

For the second build I decided not to go to that route,so I skipped Wrath and chose Horn and Combat roll instead,to be little more mobile.But,although I survived DC,I am not happy with that build,because I do not have answer for  cluster of mooks.

[Chaz Darkbane]

I was just messaging BWEAmelia regarding the Templar when I was working on my build and here is the response I got regarding the Templar passive buffs.

 

The way most of our buff application logic works is either "Remove this buff then grant the buff again to refresh its cooldown" or "If I don't already have this buff then apply this buff." I'm sorry I can't say for certain for these passives without looking at them in the editor but I won't be back to work until monday. My educated guess would be that they do not stack : )

 

 

 

So while it isn't anything definite right now if this is true then the Templar lost a lot of potential power in her kit she might have had by stacking with other Templars. If this is the case I honestly don't understand why her passives are so weak

[KingTony]

About a week ago I promoted my Templar and was about to experiment with a new build, but my console died next time I tried to play.

[PvtNiss]

I did some testing regarding that earlier, while the random nature of damage seems mess it up a bit it would seem that the icon the Templar has for Blessed Blades is not the actual buff itself. I noticed no increase to damage while that icon was up and I was outside the ring, entering the ring gives you the normal icon for Blessed Blades and the damage buff. I believe the icon is there only to indicate that the ring is up, similar to how if Payback Strike is empowered you will recieve and icon indicating it. I certainly noticed no change to cooldowns, but then again .5 seconds is hardly noticeable with how slow weapon swings are.

 

This annoys me as well. I am waiting on someone to give me a solid answer on how powerful the increase to attributes actually is as well as guard values. How much health does +1 constitution give? How much damage is +1 Willpower? How much Crit chance is +1 cunning? Unless I know these values I will not be prestiging my classes further unless I messed up the build at some point. I do not want to have to prestige my assassin one hundred times to get 1% crit chance for example.

 

 

I think my biggest issue with the Templar right now is just how extremely gear reliant she is. Without a decent weapon she will not be able to nuke with WoH + Spell Purge, and because all of her bonuses are small (likely to prevent 4 Templar comps from stacking if the passives do stack) she really doesn't seem worth bringing over another character. I blame Blessed Blades because it has the potential to not only be a viable skill, but a skill that makes the Templar really worth having along, but because of how useless it is currently the Templar is being held back. Taking a few of my suggestions into account would make the skill truly something without making it broken. If the circle followed the Templar like an aura effect I could see her working out, but as of right now it is just a waste of a slot to bring it.

 

http://forum.bioware...afting-testing/

All the info you asked for, and then some. ;-)

 

You're right she IS gear reliant. A +10 cunning necklace and 2x +10% crit chance rings with some extra crit from a weapon and promoted rogue's cunning can give you a ton of crit chance to cooldown your skills. And I can confirm BB only gives the actual damage/CDR:hit inside the circle the other icon is to tell you the circle is up and about. Though BB should just be a party wide buff like the horn imo. Which brings me to my next question does anyone know the range on the horn? Can I blast it when my 3 dashing impatient companions are a quarter or half a zone away and buff them?

 

 

I was just messaging BWEAmelia regarding the Templar when I was working on my build and here is the response I got regarding the Templar passive buffs.

 

 

 

 

So while it isn't anything definite right now if this is true then the Templar lost a lot of potential power in her kit she might have had by stacking with other Templars. If this is the case I honestly don't understand why her passives are so weak

 

 

It's been monday, any update? :-) Also how's your build are you done with it? I have been playing my templar as my 2nd last unlocked char today :x and I actually love it! I immediately crafted the last Item Lvl 5 armor for her and slapped the mods I had on it. The support you can give is fantastic and you're tanky to boot, with not such terrible damage as most would have you believe.

 

Reason I searched for this thread is because I'd like to know without having to go to 20 and promote/reset constantly if Wrath or Purge are worth getting alone.

WoH deals 700% to demons and with passive also mages? and has a giant stun to prime but for big stamina cost. Which enemies does this skill damage exactly? red templar horrors or knights and behemoths? I'm assuming no but they seem to be stuck full of lyrium so I want to be sure. It looks like it will only work great if you are lucky enough to get demons as your enemies so there's only a 34% its (extra) useful just like several other templar things. :-/ This bothers me as 65 stam is a very expensive non damage small aoe stun for most enemies in 2 out of 3 possible enemy groups. And when you do get demons its usually wraiths that you can only get 1 of as they are far apart from eachother and ranged. Not to mention squishy enough to ram to death before their barrier goes up using my axe.

Spell Purge does 600% on dispelling effects such as barriers and what else? Are there even any other buffs at all? I'm leaning towards bringing neither but I hear such good things about those skills. Most of those goods things probably coming from the combination of both or singleplayers rift-dispelling. -.-

 

Looks like i'm going to be bringing Shield Wall/Horn for sure with Shield bash, Payback strike, Line in the Sand or Challenge. Leaning towards challenge with payback strike as its good damage vs anything and good stamina regeneration. On the other hand shield bash is a mini crowd control and detonator. X_x Any input?

[Myala]

The woh stun doesn't damage on non magical, non demon creatures you are right. But the upgraded purge damages all that have incapacited or barriers. That upgraded purge kills most normal enemies and woh stuns most normal enemies. That's why it works.

[Chaz Darkbane]

 I wish that the Templars combo worked on bosses, having her be able to perform a damage spike or maybe just stun the Demon Commander would be an amazing ability to have on a team. 

http://forum.bioware...afting-testing/

All the info you asked for, and then some. ;-)

 

You're right she IS gear reliant. A +10 cunning necklace and 2x +10% crit chance rings with some extra crit from a weapon and promoted rogue's cunning can give you a ton of crit chance to cooldown your skills. And I can confirm BB only gives the actual damage/CDR:hit inside the circle the other icon is to tell you the circle is up and about. Though BB should just be a party wide buff like the horn imo. Which brings me to my next question does anyone know the range on the horn? Can I blast it when my 3 dashing impatient companions are a quarter or half a zone away and buff them?

 

 

It's been monday, any update? :-) Also how's your build are you done with it? I have been playing my templar as my 2nd last unlocked char today :x and I actually love it! I immediately crafted the last Item Lvl 5 armor for her and slapped the mods I had on it. The support you can give is fantastic and you're tanky to boot, with not such terrible damage as most would have you believe.

 

Reason I searched for this thread is because I'd like to know without having to go to 20 and promote/reset constantly if Wrath or Purge are worth getting alone.

WoH deals 700% to demons and with passive also mages? and has a giant stun to prime but for big stamina cost. Which enemies does this skill damage exactly? red templar horrors or knights and behemoths? I'm assuming no but they seem to be stuck full of lyrium so I want to be sure. It looks like it will only work great if you are lucky enough to get demons as your enemies so there's only a 34% its (extra) useful just like several other templar things. :-/ This bothers me as 65 stam is a very expensive non damage small aoe stun for most enemies in 2 out of 3 possible enemy groups. And when you do get demons its usually wraiths that you can only get 1 of as they are far apart from eachother and ranged. Not to mention squishy enough to ram to death before their barrier goes up using my axe.

Spell Purge does 600% on dispelling effects such as barriers and what else? Are there even any other buffs at all? I'm leaning towards bringing neither but I hear such good things about those skills. Most of those goods things probably coming from the combination of both or singleplayers rift-dispelling. -.-

 

Looks like i'm going to be bringing Shield Wall/Horn for sure with Shield bash, Payback strike, Line in the Sand or Challenge. Leaning towards challenge with payback strike as its good damage vs anything and good stamina regeneration. On the other hand shield bash is a mini crowd control and detonator. X_x Any input?

Been busy with work all week so sorry with my lack of updates, so far I have been experimenting with the Archer and the Necromancer for build purposes, and as much as I like the concept surrounding the Templar, her abilities really don't seem powerful enough to warrant trading out a tank or dps for her slot. I am tempted to wait for the first balance pass to see if anything changes, if not I will just go ahead with the build and if she gets changed for the better than I will feel more confidant doing a build write up knowing I have something to work with.

[Moridan]

Too many people are ePeening for the top spot of the end of match screen.  Templars can be strong, but where their main strength lies is in controlling the battlefield.  I am perfectly fine supporting my team by running up, throwing down Line in the Sand, and sit there with Shield wall taking hits while the rest of the team puts the enemy down.  It works great.  This is MULTIplayer for a reason.  9-)

[PvtNiss]

I tried line in the sand and have had mobs run straight through it more than once. Q_Q If not, my idiot team will stand on top of one of the shiny dudes to ensure the line vanishes. It's polite to open the door, no? I should have gone with something else.

[Chaz Darkbane]

I tried line in the sand and have had mobs run straight through it more than once. Q_Q If not, my idiot team will stand on top of one of the shiny dudes to ensure the line vanishes. It's polite to open the door, no? I should have gone with something else.

 

Agreed here, line in the sand is a really cool skill, just not a very effective one.

 

Oh also personal gripe: I feel like I should mention that the Keeper and the Templar literally have the same team passives just with different names. Same Icon and everything, I have the weirdest feeling that despite them having different names, they will not stack. I realize making a AAA title is hard guys, but can we not reuse the same passives for totally different classes? That is just lazy

[Shinnyshin]

I tried line in the sand and have had mobs run straight through it more than once. Q_Q If not, my idiot team will stand on top of one of the shiny dudes to ensure the line vanishes. It's polite to open the door, no? I should have gone with something else.

My friend specced Line in the Sand the other night, saying "there's no way I can't take an ability that sounds this cool".  He proceeded to find the narrowest corridor possible and the enemies....ran right through it.  We tried to make it work so many times.  Soooo many times.  The shiny people just spawn with a huge gap and it's...problematic.  We spent the rest of the night calling her Jarvan.  Could maybe do something with Elementalist's wall but at that point, well, is it really worth it?

 

I really, really hate Unbowed as a skill but'm increasingly thinking she needs it.  If she had War Cry or Fortress, that would change everything.  But she doesn't.

[MadMaximoff]

 I wish that the Templars combo worked on bosses, having her be able to perform a damage spike or maybe just stun the Demon Commander would be an amazing ability to have on a team. 

Been busy with work all week so sorry with my lack of updates, so far I have been experimenting with the Archer and the Necromancer for build purposes, and as much as I like the concept surrounding the Templar, her abilities really don't seem powerful enough to warrant trading out a tank or dps for her slot. I am tempted to wait for the first balance pass to see if anything changes, if not I will just go ahead with the build and if she gets changed for the better than I will feel more confidant doing a build write up knowing I have something to work with.

 

 I wish that the Templars combo worked on bosses, having her be able to perform a damage spike or maybe just stun the Demon Commander would be an amazing ability to have on a team. 

Been busy with work all week so sorry with my lack of updates, so far I have been experimenting with the Archer and the Necromancer for build purposes, and as much as I like the concept surrounding the Templar, her abilities really don't seem powerful enough to warrant trading out a tank or dps for her slot. I am tempted to wait for the first balance pass to see if anything changes, if not I will just go ahead with the build and if she gets changed for the better than I will feel more confidant doing a build write up knowing I have something to work with.

 

The Templar combo does work against the Venatori & Red Templar Commanders, however you can't trigger it yourself, you need a Mage to use a CC then trigger Spell Purge.

 

Demon Commander is the only one who is absolutely immune to all forms of hard CC.

[Terrato13]

I'm having a hard time setting up a tank spec for the temp since she doesn't have an aoe taunt like lego does. I've tried challenge, but I still think that, for the most part, it fails on so many occasions. My normal setup is WoH/Purge/Bash/Block. I've been tempted to take off Bash but it's too effective at removing enemies guard, such as the Templar Commander boss.

[killsion]

I opted to go for a WoH/SP combo and Unbowed with my previous Templar. Get a barrier, run in, Unbowed into combo, typically kill everything, and emerge unscathed with full guard. This is under ideal circumstances however. In other situations, such as enemies spread too far out, no barriers, etc, this move becomes either a fraction of itself, or downright suicidal.

 

I kept Shield Wall but in the end it just never seemed to be enough to stay alive in less than ideal situations. I can't fathom playing Templar without the combo, but surely there must be some way of becoming a more effective tank along with it.

[KingTony]

Oh my God guys...

Line in the Sand is to keep them from getting AROUND YOU. You STAND IN THE MIDDLE.

[Credit2team]

there needs to be clearer indicators on mobs that have dispellable buffs. Frankly I think all of them should have SOME sort of buff otherwise spell purge become pretty freaking useless.

 

[Credit2team]

also I think spell purge should be a ranged ability (30 meters) with a large amount of threat attached to it, that would go a long ways to making her a better tank

[killsion]

also I think spell purge should be a ranged ability (30 meters) with a large amount of threat attached to it, that would go a long ways to making her a better tank

 

This is actually an interesting idea and one I could get behind. Course, I'd also like to see Wrath of Heaven with a larger radius but that is mostly wishful thinking.

[Chaz Darkbane]

Oh my God guys...

Line in the Sand is to keep them from getting AROUND YOU. You STAND IN THE MIDDLE.

That isn't the issue being discussed. I was referring to enemies literally running through the skill as if it wasn't there. Like I am in the middle, and they run right past me to my left and right. It happens frequently enough that I feel like it is just a really common bug.

 

As for changing the range of WoH/SP I would prefer it if they were both ten meters, but that is mostly due to their excessive cooldown. I would at least prefer it if at the very least they had the same range as each other. Why is Spell Purge a 5m and WoH 4?